2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[BobbieL]

It goes down to 5.7 and can only be used for 3 years vs 4 years with under tax teams and starts around 9.7 million

Are we in the tax do you know? Will we be impacted?

Not right now, but I think we are within about $10 million or so, and there is a chance we get into it next year depending on Payne and Paul's contracts. If Paul's contract reduces, we should be ok, unless we use the full MLE (and still could be ok if we move other players like Saric).

The bigger problem will be the following year with the extensions kicking in...if Paul is still here, and making a decent chunk, we will almost certainly be in the tax, which I think Sarver would be fine paying, but a repeater tax the next year? That cost is astronomical so I think we'd want to wiggle under it somehow at that point.

This is part of the reason I was hoping for a team option on Saric and maybe Crowder.

But we could probably easily trade either or both with 1 year left on their contracts and maybe squeeze under. This is why those late rookie picks will be nice cheap contracts...with 4 years to develop 1st round picks...if we can hit on them or at least 1 of them.

Based on how Paul goes with his contract - maybe he does sign for 100/3 or something like that. And yes, Saric or Crowder are contracts that are possibly easier to move. It is going to be interesting to see what Payne gets. Has been a really good third guart. I doubt any team will open the wallet for him.

But for sure a different offseason. The Suns will be a destination team again.

[SuperSunsFan]

anyway we can upgrade our point guard position with Dame? don't go all moral high ground with me about we shouldn't betray CP, we betrayed Rubio to get better didn't we.

[Barkley6]

Just saw a story about how Cleveland is targeting Caruso and TJ McConnell for their backup PG spot. Interesting that Payne wasn't mentioned as he is an impending free agent. Wonder if the feeling around the league is that he's not leaving Phoenix.

[Barkley6]

anyway we can upgrade our point guard position with Dame? don't go all moral high ground with me about we shouldn't betray CP, we betrayed Rubio to get better didn't we.

Not necessarily moral high ground, but team chemistry. Not to mention as much as I LOVE Dame, he's a different player than CP3, he'd bring a new style of play and frankly, we'd lose something on defense with him instead of CP3.

If we go to the finals, I doubt we make any wholesale changes. We'll want to just run it back and maybe reinforce here and there. We've got a championship window, and I think we learned from the Nash/D'Antoni era that sometimes making a ton of moves is not always the best way to get to the promised land.

[King4Day]

anyway we can upgrade our point guard position with Dame? don't go all moral high ground with me about we shouldn't betray CP, we betrayed Rubio to get better didn't we.

Not necessarily moral high ground, but team chemistry. Not to mention as much as I LOVE Dame, he's a different player than CP3, he'd bring a new style of play and frankly, we'd lose something on defense with him instead of CP3.

If we go to the finals, I doubt we make any wholesale changes. We'll want to just run it back and maybe reinforce here and there. We've got a championship window, and I think we learned from the Nash/D'Antoni era that sometimes making a ton of moves is not always the best way to get to the promised land.

Well said.
If we can lockup Paul for 3 years total, we just need to pay the tax and ride it out. If we don't get it done by the time that ends, we can worry about moving pieces to get under the tax then.
Like you said, we have a legit title window right now. It's not the time to think of cutting costs.
This is also important for Bookers next contract. Keep the success going and he'll want to stay.

[Barkley6]

anyway we can upgrade our point guard position with Dame? don't go all moral high ground with me about we shouldn't betray CP, we betrayed Rubio to get better didn't we.

Not necessarily moral high ground, but team chemistry. Not to mention as much as I LOVE Dame, he's a different player than CP3, he'd bring a new style of play and frankly, we'd lose something on defense with him instead of CP3.

If we go to the finals, I doubt we make any wholesale changes. We'll want to just run it back and maybe reinforce here and there. We've got a championship window, and I think we learned from the Nash/D'Antoni era that sometimes making a ton of moves is not always the best way to get to the promised land.

Well said.
If we can lockup Paul for 3 years total, we just need to pay the tax and ride it out. If we don't get it done by the time that ends, we can worry about moving pieces to get under the tax then.
Like you said, we have a legit title window right now. It's not the time to think of cutting costs.
This is also important for Bookers next contract. Keep the success going and he'll want to stay.

Absolutely! No franchise will ever tell you "We won the title, but it wasn't worth the long term cost." Titles change franchises.

Look at Golden State. Look at Miami. Those are two teams that didn't get much respect league wide for YEARS and once they won a title, they were viewed completely differently (I know the W's won a title in the 70s, I think, but that was obviously not reflective of their current situation.)

Winning cures everything and if we have a chance to win, and I think it's pretty clear that we do, we need to capitalize on that by keeping the group together, adding pieces where we need it and not shying away from the financial burden that comes with winning.

When you draft players, you're always hoping for this scenario, that you'll have to sign them to long term big money deals because they are worth it. Well, we did it. For the first time in a LONNNNNNG time we have multiple young players that are worth the money. Why would we shy away from a moment that our scouting department and James Jones and the entire franchise worked hard to bring us?

[SuperSunsFan]

CP is really really old, 3 more years? look at how much lebron has declined this year compared to last, when you are 36 you age differently than a 26 yo, one year is like 10 to your body. CP is a lot more injury prone and has just as many mileages as lebron. Nash's last productive year was at 36 in 2010.

[BobbieL]

anyway we can upgrade our point guard position with Dame? don't go all moral high ground with me about we shouldn't betray CP, we betrayed Rubio to get better didn't we.

Not necessarily moral high ground, but team chemistry. Not to mention as much as I LOVE Dame, he's a different player than CP3, he'd bring a new style of play and frankly, we'd lose something on defense with him instead of CP3.

If we go to the finals, I doubt we make any wholesale changes. We'll want to just run it back and maybe reinforce here and there. We've got a championship window, and I think we learned from the Nash/D'Antoni era that sometimes making a ton of moves is not always the best way to get to the promised land.

Plus, the cost for Paul is just cash. I mean, if he opts in - its 44m or whatever. If he opts out - you have cap space. With Lillard - its both cash and players. Plus Lillard is signed for four more years after this. I think CP3 and Booker are a good combination

My thing with Sarver - is that I hope he has learned about 1, 3 and 5 year plans. I know that might sound obvious but back in the day, I am not sure he estimated cost with revenues, luxury tax, etc. So, I hope they are doing a better job of looking ahead, when the Ayton and Bridges deals kick in, luxury tax, multiple lux tax payers, etc. So as much as I want Craig and Cam back - -I will understand if one of them are not back from a longer term cap perspective. Than again, as BWG said, Saric or Crowder could always be traded.

These are good problems to have. Figuring out an offseason after winning at least 7 play off games in two series. Much better than many of the last 10 years - especially 2016-2019

[SuperSunsFan]

anyway we can upgrade our point guard position with Dame? don't go all moral high ground with me about we shouldn't betray CP, we betrayed Rubio to get better didn't we.

Not necessarily moral high ground, but team chemistry. Not to mention as much as I LOVE Dame, he's a different player than CP3, he'd bring a new style of play and frankly, we'd lose something on defense with him instead of CP3.

If we go to the finals, I doubt we make any wholesale changes. We'll want to just run it back and maybe reinforce here and there. We've got a championship window, and I think we learned from the Nash/D'Antoni era that sometimes making a ton of moves is not always the best way to get to the promised land.

Plus, the cost for Paul is just cash. I mean, if he opts in - its 44m or whatever. If he opts out - you have cap space. With Lillard - its both cash and players. Plus Lillard is signed for four more years after this. I think CP3 and Booker are a good combination

My thing with Sarver - is that I hope he has learned about 1, 3 and 5 year plans. I know that might sound obvious but back in the day, I am not sure he estimated cost with revenues, luxury tax, etc. So, I hope they are doing a better job of looking ahead, when the Ayton and Bridges deals kick in, luxury tax, multiple lux tax payers, etc. So as much as I want Craig and Cam back - -I will understand if one of them are not back from a longer term cap perspective. Than again, as BWG said, Saric or Crowder could always be traded.

Sarver's problem was he thought good players could easily be replaced, he didn't understand fit. Denver this year is the perfect example, when they lost murray their records kept improving so people thought they were just the same, nope, Porter Jr just wasn't in the same caliber especially in the playoffs, he could replace Murray's scoring in the regular season but not when the you going up against other elite teams, you need as many edges as possible against those. when suns lost JJ even though the regular season records were about the same and you had LB stepping up the championship run took a heavy blow that we could never recover. another great mistake was tim thomas, if we had him back we could have beaten the spurs and eventually advanced to the finals having that super stretch four in your arsenal, but nope bob thought having amare back was enough so he pretty much just let him go for nothing.

[Barkley6]

CP is really really old, 3 more years? look at how much lebron has declined this year compared to last, when you are 36 you age differently than a 26 yo, one year is like 10 to your body. CP is a lot more injury prone and has just as many mileages as lebron. Nash's last productive year was at 36 in 2010.

Paul has a completely different game than LeBron. LeBron used size and athleticism to bully people on drives inside. Paul's primary offense is a 12-15 foot jumper that he can get off on anyone. Paul has lost a step in terms of speed and athleticism, but he's a very effective game manager and can still put on, what seems silly to call, a vintage performance, considering how often he does it.

In terms of the Nash comparison, Paul is about as athletic now as Nash was at age 30, so he probably will be able to play a little longer than Steve in that sense.

At 37, Nash put up 12 and 10, and his supporting cast was led by HAKIM FREAKING WARRICK. That team was hot garbage, and Nash played in 62 of 66 games in a lockout shortened season.

At 38, Nash put up 12 and 6, but obviously his ball handling duties diminished playing next to a ball dominant guard in Kobe.

In each of those seasons he shot 39 and 43% from 3.

Obviously health is a factor for any player north of 30, but CP3 has had two consecutive healthy seasons (missed 4 games total in the last two), so it doesn't seem as if there are any lingering or pressing injury concerns.

With Cam Payne and Book, and possibly a rookie coming in over the next couple seasons, we could reduce his minutes and rest him periodically as a way to extend his effectiveness.

I wouldn't blink at 3 years 33/million for the chance to compete for a championship over the next three years.

[Barkley6]

Not necessarily moral high ground, but team chemistry. Not to mention as much as I LOVE Dame, he's a different player than CP3, he'd bring a new style of play and frankly, we'd lose something on defense with him instead of CP3.

If we go to the finals, I doubt we make any wholesale changes. We'll want to just run it back and maybe reinforce here and there. We've got a championship window, and I think we learned from the Nash/D'Antoni era that sometimes making a ton of moves is not always the best way to get to the promised land.

Plus, the cost for Paul is just cash. I mean, if he opts in - its 44m or whatever. If he opts out - you have cap space. With Lillard - its both cash and players. Plus Lillard is signed for four more years after this. I think CP3 and Booker are a good combination

My thing with Sarver - is that I hope he has learned about 1, 3 and 5 year plans. I know that might sound obvious but back in the day, I am not sure he estimated cost with revenues, luxury tax, etc. So, I hope they are doing a better job of looking ahead, when the Ayton and Bridges deals kick in, luxury tax, multiple lux tax payers, etc. So as much as I want Craig and Cam back - -I will understand if one of them are not back from a longer term cap perspective. Than again, as BWG said, Saric or Crowder could always be traded.

Sarver's problem was he thought good players could easily be replaced, he didn't understand fit. Denver this year is the perfect example, when they lost murray their records kept improving so people thought they were just the same, nope, Porter Jr just wasn't in the same caliber especially in the playoffs, he could replace Murray's scoring in the regular season but not when the you going up against other elite teams, you need as many edges as possible against those. when suns lost JJ even though the regular season records were about the same and you had LB stepping up the championship run took a heavy blow that we could never recover. another great mistake was tim thomas, if we had him back we could have beaten the spurs and eventually advanced to the finals having that super stretch four in your arsenal, but nope bob thought having amare back was enough so he pretty much just let him go for nothing.

I agree with your assessment of JJ and TT. He thought we could just find replacements. We signed Bell thinking he would step right into JJs role and while Raja was a great shooter and defender, he could not do what JJ did.

I'm STILL sore about Tim Thomas. We spent our money that offseason to bring in Marcus Banks if I recall correctly. If we had just paid TT instead of Banks we'd likely have a championship now.

[BobbieL]

Plus, the cost for Paul is just cash. I mean, if he opts in - its 44m or whatever. If he opts out - you have cap space. With Lillard - its both cash and players. Plus Lillard is signed for four more years after this. I think CP3 and Booker are a good combination

My thing with Sarver - is that I hope he has learned about 1, 3 and 5 year plans. I know that might sound obvious but back in the day, I am not sure he estimated cost with revenues, luxury tax, etc. So, I hope they are doing a better job of looking ahead, when the Ayton and Bridges deals kick in, luxury tax, multiple lux tax payers, etc. So as much as I want Craig and Cam back - -I will understand if one of them are not back from a longer term cap perspective. Than again, as BWG said, Saric or Crowder could always be traded.

Sarver's problem was he thought good players could easily be replaced, he didn't understand fit. Denver this year is the perfect example, when they lost murray their records kept improving so people thought they were just the same, nope, Porter Jr just wasn't in the same caliber especially in the playoffs, he could replace Murray's scoring in the regular season but not when the you going up against other elite teams, you need as many edges as possible against those. when suns lost JJ even though the regular season records were about the same and you had LB stepping up the championship run took a heavy blow that we could never recover. another great mistake was tim thomas, if we had him back we could have beaten the spurs and eventually advanced to the finals having that super stretch four in your arsenal, but nope bob thought having amare back was enough so he pretty much just let him go for nothing.

I agree with your assessment of JJ and TT. He thought we could just find replacements. We signed Bell thinking he would step right into JJs role and while Raja was a great shooter and defender, he could not do what JJ did.

I'm STILL sore about Tim Thomas. We spent our money that offseason to bring in Marcus Banks if I recall correctly. If we had just paid TT instead of Banks we'd likely have a championship now.

The good thing - we learn from life lessons. And hopefully SArver has learned a thing or two. He has the makings of a very good team because of Booker, Ayton and Bridges core group, with CP3 of course. Good players around them. So its going to take some cash to keep it together. I hope he is ready

[Barkley6]

Sarver's problem was he thought good players could easily be replaced, he didn't understand fit. Denver this year is the perfect example, when they lost murray their records kept improving so people thought they were just the same, nope, Porter Jr just wasn't in the same caliber especially in the playoffs, he could replace Murray's scoring in the regular season but not when the you going up against other elite teams, you need as many edges as possible against those. when suns lost JJ even though the regular season records were about the same and you had LB stepping up the championship run took a heavy blow that we could never recover. another great mistake was tim thomas, if we had him back we could have beaten the spurs and eventually advanced to the finals having that super stretch four in your arsenal, but nope bob thought having amare back was enough so he pretty much just let him go for nothing.

I agree with your assessment of JJ and TT. He thought we could just find replacements. We signed Bell thinking he would step right into JJs role and while Raja was a great shooter and defender, he could not do what JJ did.

I'm STILL sore about Tim Thomas. We spent our money that offseason to bring in Marcus Banks if I recall correctly. If we had just paid TT instead of Banks we'd likely have a championship now.

The good thing - we learn from life lessons. And hopefully SArver has learned a thing or two. He has the makings of a very good team because of Booker, Ayton and Bridges core group, with CP3 of course. Good players around them. So its going to take some cash to keep it together. I hope he is ready

I think he is. I think he realizes that the best way to affect the bottom line isn't by cutting salary or shying away from the luxury tax, but by putting a good product on the floor. I would imagine that merch and season ticket sales are through the roof this season compared to the last 9 or so (since Nash left).

Just watching the team on TV (I live in NY), I see so many people wearing the new Valley jersey, and lots of new designs on Ts, hats, etc. People are buying in to THIS team. Sure you still have people out there rocking a vintage Nash, but this team is incredibly marketable as constructed and the more they win the more marketable they will become. If the Suns make it to the Finals, watch Devin Booker's stock explode. He's going to be in nationwide commercials, league promotions, etc. and all that makes the Suns money because people will want to hop on the bandwagon or get their Book merchandise.

[SuperSunsFan]

after being relatively gone from the nba until these two years i have noticed our 7sol template has become the standard of NBA, and judging from how the other teams win with basically variants of the d'antoni gameplans i have finally understand why we didn't we a championship. Marion wasn't a reliable 3pt threat to give us better spacing and Amare wasn't a reliable post defender/rebounder. Marion and Amare gave us the same thing offensively which was a roll men and aerial spacers (lob targets) so they were overlapping not good complimentary of each other which explains why we actually was better the year Amare was injured as Diaw/tim thomas gave us dimensions that we didn't have while Marion was better utilized as the perfect stand in for Amare. When Amare came back we lost the spacing TT or playmaking Diaw gave us while under utilizing Marion which i think was the Beef Marion had with nash and D'antoni came from. looking back Garnett for Amare was a great potential move as it would have given us a much needed post defender. draymon green was basically GS's boris diaw.

[Slim Charless]

CP is really really old, 3 more years? look at how much lebron has declined this year compared to last, when you are 36 you age differently than a 26 yo, one year is like 10 to your body. CP is a lot more injury prone and has just as many mileages as lebron. Nash's last productive year was at 36 in 2010.

Well, hell Booker is almost 25. Why stop there, let's get ahead of that one too and trade him while he still has value. The Rockets have a ton of picks maybe they'll give some up to get Book on their team....amiright?

[SuperSunsFan]

Plus, the cost for Paul is just cash. I mean, if he opts in - its 44m or whatever. If he opts out - you have cap space. With Lillard - its both cash and players. Plus Lillard is signed for four more years after this. I think CP3 and Booker are a good combination

My thing with Sarver - is that I hope he has learned about 1, 3 and 5 year plans. I know that might sound obvious but back in the day, I am not sure he estimated cost with revenues, luxury tax, etc. So, I hope they are doing a better job of looking ahead, when the Ayton and Bridges deals kick in, luxury tax, multiple lux tax payers, etc. So as much as I want Craig and Cam back - -I will understand if one of them are not back from a longer term cap perspective. Than again, as BWG said, Saric or Crowder could always be traded.

Sarver's problem was he thought good players could easily be replaced, he didn't understand fit. Denver this year is the perfect example, when they lost murray their records kept improving so people thought they were just the same, nope, Porter Jr just wasn't in the same caliber especially in the playoffs, he could replace Murray's scoring in the regular season but not when the you going up against other elite teams, you need as many edges as possible against those. when suns lost JJ even though the regular season records were about the same and you had LB stepping up the championship run took a heavy blow that we could never recover. another great mistake was tim thomas, if we had him back we could have beaten the spurs and eventually advanced to the finals having that super stretch four in your arsenal, but nope bob thought having amare back was enough so he pretty much just let him go for nothing.

I agree with your assessment of JJ and TT. He thought we could just find replacements. We signed Bell thinking he would step right into JJs role and while Raja was a great shooter and defender, he could not do what JJ did.

I'm STILL sore about Tim Thomas. We spent our money that offseason to bring in Marcus Banks if I recall correctly. If we had just paid TT instead of Banks we'd likely have a championship now.

our initial target was John Salmons i think he could have helped us tremendously. we also got jalen rose in the beginning of the season who would have thought he was already a complete wash up at only 32.

[SuperSunsFan]

CP is really really old, 3 more years? look at how much lebron has declined this year compared to last, when you are 36 you age differently than a 26 yo, one year is like 10 to your body. CP is a lot more injury prone and has just as many mileages as lebron. Nash's last productive year was at 36 in 2010.

Well, hell Booker is almost 25. Why stop there, let's get ahead of that one too and trade him while he still has value. The Rockets have a ton of picks maybe they'll give some up to get Book on their team....amiright?

come on we almost lost to the lakers when CP just out of no where injured his shoulder from the most benign little bump and you want to invest that much money on an old injury prone player like him? with old players we never know decline can come real fast, jim jackson was a dragon for us at 34 few months later he sucked azz. selling high, sign and trade CP to NY see what we can get back is the right move, now we know we have a good team with a good point guard we go find that pg that will be around for years to come.

[bwgood77]

anyway we can upgrade our point guard position with Dame? don't go all moral high ground with me about we shouldn't betray CP, we betrayed Rubio to get better didn't we.

Not necessarily moral high ground, but team chemistry. Not to mention as much as I LOVE Dame, he's a different player than CP3, he'd bring a new style of play and frankly, we'd lose something on defense with him instead of CP3.

If we go to the finals, I doubt we make any wholesale changes. We'll want to just run it back and maybe reinforce here and there. We've got a championship window, and I think we learned from the Nash/D'Antoni era that sometimes making a ton of moves is not always the best way to get to the promised land.

Well said.
If we can lockup Paul for 3 years total, we just need to pay the tax and ride it out. If we don't get it done by the time that ends, we can worry about moving pieces to get under the tax then.
Like you said, we have a legit title window right now. It's not the time to think of cutting costs.
This is also important for Bookers next contract. Keep the success going and he'll want to stay.

Getting Lillard wouldn't be cutting costs. His new contracts starts out at near $40 million.

The way we are playing though, we are definitely not even giving one second of thought to not bringing CP3 back.

I am curious what we decide to do post Paul, however the way we are playing now I don't think it will be hard to find guys who want t play for us...so we may find another solid vet...obviously no Paul and hard to find an all star type, but it will be interesting. Or will Payne keep progressing by leaps and bounds like he did from a China player to what he's done with the Suns so far.

Would be nice if we had another young PG around on a rookie contract soaking all this in from CP3, the team and coaching staff. Would be invaluable.

[bwgood77]

I agree with your assessment of JJ and TT. He thought we could just find replacements. We signed Bell thinking he would step right into JJs role and while Raja was a great shooter and defender, he could not do what JJ did.

I'm STILL sore about Tim Thomas. We spent our money that offseason to bring in Marcus Banks if I recall correctly. If we had just paid TT instead of Banks we'd likely have a championship now.

The good thing - we learn from life lessons. And hopefully SArver has learned a thing or two. He has the makings of a very good team because of Booker, Ayton and Bridges core group, with CP3 of course. Good players around them. So its going to take some cash to keep it together. I hope he is ready

I think he is. I think he realizes that the best way to affect the bottom line isn't by cutting salary or shying away from the luxury tax, but by putting a good product on the floor. I would imagine that merch and season ticket sales are through the roof this season compared to the last 9 or so (since Nash left).

Just watching the team on TV (I live in NY), I see so many people wearing the new Valley jersey, and lots of new designs on Ts, hats, etc. People are buying in to THIS team. Sure you still have people out there rocking a vintage Nash, but this team is incredibly marketable as constructed and the more they win the more marketable they will become. If the Suns make it to the Finals, watch Devin Booker's stock explode. He's going to be in nationwide commercials, league promotions, etc. and all that makes the Suns money because people will want to hop on the bandwagon or get their Book merchandise.

I would be excited about more national television games next year but all that means is fewer I can get on league pass and have to stream.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Dame would be fun but even if he demanded to come to Phoenix it would be very very hard to make the money work in a trade. And it would be virtually impossible considering what they would want back to make the trade and still have a good team left over when you were done.

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