2021 NBA Draft, Part 2

[Hal14]

Sorry to break the Green talk, but is it fair to say that this is a five pick draft? Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga (not in order) and then daylight?

IDK, I think there's some good talent outside the top 5.

For instance, IMO Springer is just as good as Suggs, maybe even better.

Bassey is very similar to Mobley. Mobley is obviously better, but Bassey is really not that far off IMO.

Yet some mocks have had Springer in the 25-30 range, and most mocks I'm seeing have Bassey in the 28-38 range. Just shows how deep this draft class is..

Bassey's far off in assists, and that matters more than you'd think for centers. Mobley had the highest average of any major conference freshman center in history, and that vision will really come in handy if he develops into an offensive superstar like people are hoping. Bassey doesn't have at at all, and his offensive ceiling is way lower as a result.

Plus he measured under 6'9" in socks, so I'm pretty sure he's not allowed to play center, which really hurts his outlook

I'm showing Mobley listed at 7'0" and Bassey listed at 6'11". Pretty close.

I wasn't aware that Mobley was such a good passer.

Again, not saying Bassey is equal, but from what I've seen they are pretty close in terms of physical tools and skill set..

[Charm]

IDK, I think there's some good talent outside the top 5.

For instance, IMO Springer is just as good as Suggs, maybe even better.

Bassey is very similar to Mobley. Mobley is obviously better, but Bassey is really not that far off IMO.

Yet some mocks have had Springer in the 25-30 range, and most mocks I'm seeing have Bassey in the 28-38 range. Just shows how deep this draft class is..

Bassey's far off in assists, and that matters more than you'd think for centers. Mobley had the highest average of any major conference freshman center in history, and that vision will really come in handy if he develops into an offensive superstar like people are hoping. Bassey doesn't have at at all, and his offensive ceiling is way lower as a result.

Plus he measured under 6'9" in socks, so I'm pretty sure he's not allowed to play center, which really hurts his outlook

I'm showing Mobley listed at 7'0" and Bassey listed at 6'11". Pretty close.

I wasn't aware that Mobley was such a good passer.

Again, not saying Bassey is equal, but from what I've seen they are pretty close in terms of physical tools and skill set..

Nope, Bassey measured 6'8.75" at the combine a couple years ago. Any indication that he's grown since then is an elaborate ruse perpetuated by his agent to convince NBA teams that he can play center...

In all seriousness though, the real reason I don't like Bassey is his 1:3 assist:TO ratio, which is inexcusably bad for a player like him who already had some NCAA experience under his belt going into this season. And the problem isn't so much that he's not creating for his teammates, it's that in the faster-paced NBA, defenders are going to swarm him and prey on his lack of court vision whenever he touches the ball. That reduces his offensive ceiling to an offensive rebounder/dunker and (maybe) a stationary 3-point shooter.

[Hal14]

Bassey's far off in assists, and that matters more than you'd think for centers. Mobley had the highest average of any major conference freshman center in history, and that vision will really come in handy if he develops into an offensive superstar like people are hoping. Bassey doesn't have at at all, and his offensive ceiling is way lower as a result.

Plus he measured under 6'9" in socks, so I'm pretty sure he's not allowed to play center, which really hurts his outlook

I'm showing Mobley listed at 7'0" and Bassey listed at 6'11". Pretty close.

I wasn't aware that Mobley was such a good passer.

Again, not saying Bassey is equal, but from what I've seen they are pretty close in terms of physical tools and skill set..

Nope, Bassey measured 6'8.75" at the combine a couple years ago. Any indication that he's grown since then is an elaborate ruse perpetuated by his agent to convince NBA teams that he can play center...

In all seriousness though, the real reason I don't like Bassey is his 1:3 assist:TO ratio, which is inexcusably bad for a player like him who already had some NCAA experience under his belt going into this season. And the problem isn't so much that he's not creating for his teammates, it's that in the faster-paced NBA, defenders are going to swarm him and prey on his lack of court vision whenever he touches the ball. That reduces his offensive ceiling to an offensive rebounder/dunker and (maybe) a stationary 3-point shooter.

He's only 20. years old. And bigs typically take longer to develop. I figure he could improve his passing/court vision, especially with better coaching/training/development in the NBA compared to what he received at Western Kentucky.

[Charm]

I'm showing Mobley listed at 7'0" and Bassey listed at 6'11". Pretty close.

I wasn't aware that Mobley was such a good passer.

Again, not saying Bassey is equal, but from what I've seen they are pretty close in terms of physical tools and skill set..

Nope, Bassey measured 6'8.75" at the combine a couple years ago. Any indication that he's grown since then is an elaborate ruse perpetuated by his agent to convince NBA teams that he can play center...

In all seriousness though, the real reason I don't like Bassey is his 1:3 assist:TO ratio, which is inexcusably bad for a player like him who already had some NCAA experience under his belt going into this season. And the problem isn't so much that he's not creating for his teammates, it's that in the faster-paced NBA, defenders are going to swarm him and prey on his lack of court vision whenever he touches the ball. That reduces his offensive ceiling to an offensive rebounder/dunker and (maybe) a stationary 3-point shooter.

He's only 20. years old. And bigs typically take longer to develop. I figure he could improve his passing/court vision, especially with better coaching/training/development in the NBA compared to what he received at Western Kentucky.

There are a few examples of guys who dramatically improved their court vision in the pros (Adebayo is the big one). But for the most part, successful offensive players in the NBA were at least adequate passers at lower levels, and that goes for centers as much as any other position. I doubt there's any precedent for a non-freshman with a 1:3 assist:TO ratio developing into a quality offensive player in the NBA.

[GSWFan1994]

Sorry to break the Green talk, but is it fair to say that this is a five pick draft? Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga (not in order) and then daylight?

Like other people have said, it also seems to me that this is gonna be a top 4 draft.

The next tier is very good, but clearly behind the top 4: Kuminga, Barnes, Sengun, Springer, Jalen Johnson for me, more or less.

Also, for as much as I've been studying the players, I feel like there's another dropoff around 17 too.

Still a very good draft, clearly above average historically-wise, with an amazing top 4 and perhaps a dozen or more role players/good starters. Of course, if it's gonna be one of the best classes of all-time is still to be disputed, it's way too early to tell.

I'd like also to ask people about other aspects of Jalen Green's game besides scoring: how do you see his defense, playmaking, either currently or potential-wise?

[Hal14]

Nope, Bassey measured 6'8.75" at the combine a couple years ago. Any indication that he's grown since then is an elaborate ruse perpetuated by his agent to convince NBA teams that he can play center...

In all seriousness though, the real reason I don't like Bassey is his 1:3 assist:TO ratio, which is inexcusably bad for a player like him who already had some NCAA experience under his belt going into this season. And the problem isn't so much that he's not creating for his teammates, it's that in the faster-paced NBA, defenders are going to swarm him and prey on his lack of court vision whenever he touches the ball. That reduces his offensive ceiling to an offensive rebounder/dunker and (maybe) a stationary 3-point shooter.

He's only 20. years old. And bigs typically take longer to develop. I figure he could improve his passing/court vision, especially with better coaching/training/development in the NBA compared to what he received at Western Kentucky.

There are a few examples of guys who dramatically improved their court vision in the pros (Adebayo is the big one). But for the most part, successful offensive players in the NBA were at least adequate passers at lower levels, and that goes for centers as much as any other position. I doubt there's any precedent for a non-freshman with a 1:3 assist:TO ratio developing into a quality offensive player in the NBA.

IDK man. We're talking about a center here - not a PG. So bringing up assist to turnover ratio seems like nit-picking and like you're reaching to try and find something wrong with the guy - especially a guy who only averaged 2.2 turnovers a game - and his turnovers decreased each of his 3 years in college.

[Hal14]

Sorry to break the Green talk, but is it fair to say that this is a five pick draft? Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga (not in order) and then daylight?

Like other people have said, it also seems to me that this is gonna be a top 4 draft.

The next tier is very good, but clearly behind the top 4: Kuminga, Barnes, Sengun, Springer, Jalen Johnson for me, more or less.

Also, for as much as I've been studying the players, I feel like there's another dropoff around 17 too.

Still a very good draft, clearly above average historically-wise, with an amazing top 4 and perhaps a dozen or more role players/good starters. Of course, if it's gonna be one of the best classes of all-time is still to be disputed, it's way too early to tell.

I'd like also to ask people about other aspects of Jalen Green's game besides scoring: how do you see his defense, playmaking, either currently or potential-wise?

defense and play making is what Green needs to work on. Cunningham's advantage in play making and size is why he's ranked over Green. Mobley's advantage in size and defense is why he's ranked over Green. Green's insane ability as a 3-level scorer combined with his crazy athleticism/bounce/explosiveness is why he is a top 3 pick. I think 3 is right where he belongs. Cunningham and Mobley you can debate in the first 2 spots.

[DCasey91]

I think Jared Butler is a borderline top 15 pick in the draft. On average there’s only 15 more or less players that actually make it and provide meaningful production/years of games played per draft.

Jared is pro ready with a pro game, would not surprise me at all if he outdoes his draft pick position.

[DCasey91]

Jalen Greens athletic profile reminds me of Randy Moss actually. His frame, first step, body control, leaping ability, speed in the open, the grace etc.

I get why people have Cade #1. But to me there just seems something special about Green. And I'm someone who values playmakers more than anything. But I just see greatness in Jalen Green and have this gut feeling that it will be similar to the Luke draft where like 3 weeks into their careers everyone will be like 'how did anyone pass on this kid?'

At a minimum I expect him to be the highest scoring rookie since AI, maybe since MJ.

That’s exactly how i see it. Cade and Suggs will get the jump early over Mobley/Green. But Green even now can score well. By the end of the year it’ll be a close rookie race. But for me I have a strong feeling everyone will be like holy hell this kid is going to be very special. Can’t wait until he hits his stride.

I won’t be surprised if he averages near 30ppg in his prime.

Springer I get though the play style is different to Suggs. Jaden - Kyle Lowry, Suggs - Kidd. Though I believe Suggs is closer to Kidd’s ceiling then Springer is to Lowry’s.

Bassey is def not close to Mobley you can argue for athleticism sure 100% but not in term of skills and awareness. Bassey has a tendency to do WTF/Awful things on court that’s dragable that he hasn’t sorted out (Awareness is key). It isn’t Lance Stephenson funny stuff it’s just plain bad.

[Hal14]

I think Jared Butler is a borderline top 15 pick in the draft. On average there’s only 15 more or less players that actually make it and provide meaningful production/years of games played per draft.

Jared is pro ready with a pro game, would not surprise me at all if he outdoes his draft pick position.

Someone on twitter was really high on him the other day, too (maybe you, lol)..do you see him more as a 1 or a 2 in the NBA?

[DCasey91]

I think Jared Butler is a borderline top 15 pick in the draft. On average there’s only 15 more or less players that actually make it and provide meaningful production/years of games played per draft.

Jared is pro ready with a pro game, would not surprise me at all if he outdoes his draft pick position.

Someone on twitter was really high on him the other day, too (maybe you, lol)..do you see him more as a 1 or a 2 in the NBA?

Comboish 1/2 can play off/on ball and play both parts well. Slick PNR operator, don’t want to go under PNR on defense with him lol super comfortable there
catch and shoot off the ball is great when not the primary ballhandler. He just has a great fundamental game that’s very very translatable.

It’s an easy bet to see him get quality minutes of a NBA teams bench running the second unit to amplomb. That’s actually my floor with him. I like him a lot, one of my fav non lotto prospects (Mann and Boogie Bouknight the others).

Haha Twitter ain’t for me

[Charm]

He's only 20. years old. And bigs typically take longer to develop. I figure he could improve his passing/court vision, especially with better coaching/training/development in the NBA compared to what he received at Western Kentucky.

There are a few examples of guys who dramatically improved their court vision in the pros (Adebayo is the big one). But for the most part, successful offensive players in the NBA were at least adequate passers at lower levels, and that goes for centers as much as any other position. I doubt there's any precedent for a non-freshman with a 1:3 assist:TO ratio developing into a quality offensive player in the NBA.

IDK man. We're talking about a center here - not a PG. So bringing up assist to turnover ratio seems like nit-picking and like you're reaching to try and find something wrong with the guy - especially a guy who only averaged 2.2 turnovers a game - and his turnovers decreased each of his 3 years in college.

No nit-picking, I promise! One of the cool things I've found with basketball is that the same statistical markers matter, regardless of position. The analogue for guards would probably be offensive rebound rate, though it's not quite as strongly correlated with NBA success as assists. A guard who averages less than 0.5 offensive rebounds per 40 in college may lack the toughness, motor, and/or physical tools to succeed in the NBA. A guard who averages closer to 2 offensive rebounds is much more likely to be a strong finisher and a tough defender. Easy for those differences to go unnoticed, but they're very significant.

[DCasey91]

Also I think Trey Murphy should get more buzz. A 3+D wing that actually does 3+D. Has a little Larry Bird/Smoking Joe Ingles in his shooting stroke for sure, the wind up, the head tilt lol. OG vibes from him. It’s weird he’s sound at what he does yet higher draft prospects have flaws in what they do.

[Rodrickle]

I was sending the text when u have closed the topic lol. Continue with this cool discussion

The thing is that OG wish have the defense of Usman. He is not close to Usman in term of defense and IQ. Garuba is bigger than people think he is close to 6'10 with shoes and because he has a short neck. He always has been a legit interior even more a center than a PF not a wing that has destroyed bigger guys in term on heigh than him since a kid inside with pure physicality, kids that they were two or three years older than him. He is used to bang down low with guys that are 7-footers or close and 250lb or more but at the same time he can defend guards and wings to well he doesn't have weaknees on defense he can cover a lot of ground to help and reading the defense and can protect the rim at elite level. He is a prodigy in that aspect of the game. On offense he is playing in a total diferent rol than when he was playing with the youth teams in a tough place and still contribute in a lot of ways he has been a top-3 player and probably the best since February growing on offense on a team like Real Madrid.

Do you really think he's 6'10? looks kinda small out there compared to other big men he's played against

Sent from my SM-G973W using RealGM mobile app

[MemphisX]

Bassey's far off in assists, and that matters more than you'd think for centers. Mobley had the highest average of any major conference freshman center in history, and that vision will really come in handy if he develops into an offensive superstar like people are hoping. Bassey doesn't have at at all, and his offensive ceiling is way lower as a result.

Plus he measured under 6'9" in socks, so I'm pretty sure he's not allowed to play center, which really hurts his outlook

I'm showing Mobley listed at 7'0" and Bassey listed at 6'11". Pretty close.

I wasn't aware that Mobley was such a good passer.

Again, not saying Bassey is equal, but from what I've seen they are pretty close in terms of physical tools and skill set..

Nope, Bassey measured 6'8.75" at the combine a couple years ago. Any indication that he's grown since then is an elaborate ruse perpetuated by his agent to convince NBA teams that he can play center...

In all seriousness though, the real reason I don't like Bassey is his 1:3 assist:TO ratio, which is inexcusably bad for a player like him who already had some NCAA experience under his belt going into this season. And the problem isn't so much that he's not creating for his teammates, it's that in the faster-paced NBA, defenders are going to swarm him and prey on his lack of court vision whenever he touches the ball. That reduces his offensive ceiling to an offensive rebounder/dunker and (maybe) a stationary 3-point shooter.

This is easily tall enough to play center.

[fteru6uhre54ew]

I was sending the text when u have closed the topic lol. Continue with this cool discussion

The thing is that OG wish have the defense of Usman. He is not close to Usman in term of defense and IQ. Garuba is bigger than people think he is close to 6'10 with shoes and because he has a short neck. He always has been a legit interior even more a center than a PF not a wing that has destroyed bigger guys in term on heigh than him since a kid inside with pure physicality, kids that they were two or three years older than him. He is used to bang down low with guys that are 7-footers or close and 250lb or more but at the same time he can defend guards and wings to well he doesn't have weaknees on defense he can cover a lot of ground to help and reading the defense and can protect the rim at elite level. He is a prodigy in that aspect of the game. On offense he is playing in a total diferent rol than when he was playing with the youth teams in a tough place and still contribute in a lot of ways he has been a top-3 player and probably the best since February growing on offense on a team like Real Madrid.

Do you really think he's 6'10? looks kinda small out there compared to other big men he's played against

Sent from my SM-G973W using RealGM mobile app

No. More like a 6'9 or 6'9.5 close to 6'10. He is bigger than people think for example he looked bigger than Derrick Williams the other day.

Talking about him I didn't saw the game but look like he made a **** of a game today in the first game of the finals and probably is his last game in Madrid the Acb is even worst with the contacts than the Nba. Change the rol of him and come of the bench when he was his best player doesn't help him too, coach Laso made a lot of weird things with him he is not a good coach with bigs at all more to develop them. The most weak aspect about his defense if he has some is follow the shooters coming out of a block today he probably saw a lot of that with Mirotic but I don't think he is going to see too much of that in the Nba. Can't wait to see him in the Nba he is going to be the steal of the draft for sure if he is drafted that low.

[Charm]

I'm showing Mobley listed at 7'0" and Bassey listed at 6'11". Pretty close.

I wasn't aware that Mobley was such a good passer.

Again, not saying Bassey is equal, but from what I've seen they are pretty close in terms of physical tools and skill set..

Nope, Bassey measured 6'8.75" at the combine a couple years ago. Any indication that he's grown since then is an elaborate ruse perpetuated by his agent to convince NBA teams that he can play center...

In all seriousness though, the real reason I don't like Bassey is his 1:3 assist:TO ratio, which is inexcusably bad for a player like him who already had some NCAA experience under his belt going into this season. And the problem isn't so much that he's not creating for his teammates, it's that in the faster-paced NBA, defenders are going to swarm him and prey on his lack of court vision whenever he touches the ball. That reduces his offensive ceiling to an offensive rebounder/dunker and (maybe) a stationary 3-point shooter.

This is easily tall enough to play center.

Sorry, sorry, there's a guy in another thread arguing that Sengun's too small to play center, and I'm giving him a hard time by joking that Bassey (and many other centers) are also too small to play center. I'm not a big fan of Bassey, but that has nothing to do with his height, and I certainly agree that he's big enough to play center.

[Ruzious]

He faced all the series vs Derrick Williams and man how bad Dwill has looked next to him like a bad G-League player. Totally outplayed you can tell that the man was Garuba and the kid Williams. He has an special body but an special mentality too he is always before the play in the lose ball he win the ball a lot of times the concentration reflexes stamina and nonstop mind that he has is amazing even sometimes more than he should have. Today he was putting 3x more pressure than everyone on the court he plunged the game in hell and more important he is contagious.

Over his last 8 games, Garuba is 10/22 from 3 (45.4%)..not too shabby

His form looks like Derrick Favors when we tried to get him to shoot corner threes. Hope he can keep it up, though, would make him a lot more valuable in the draft. Obviously his ability to contain anyone with his lateral quickness at his current level of play will get him drafted, but I'm interested to see what he becomes.

I haven't heard Garuba compared to Horford. I think there's a lot of similarities - as far as body type and athleticism, the strong upper body combined with quick feet. Horford was more offensive-minded coming out of school, but Garuba might be a late bloomer there. Horford played center most of his career and probably would have been better off playing PF.

[BadWolf]

Zeros across the board for Garuba in first game of Spanish finals, other then fouls.
So which is his true face?

[fteru6uhre54ew]

Zeros across the board for Garuba in first game of Spanish finals, other then fouls.
So which is his true face?

This one no that's for sure. It's the same that in the Game 5 of the playoffs of the Euroleague versus Efes compared to the Game 3 and 4 when he was the main guy that the team was more rounded on him playing at the 5 a lot and then in the last game he put Tavares as a starting center and he plays much less with a much worst role in a diferent position only at the 4. His coach literally change his role and the importance in his team from one game to another. He put him of the bench in this game when he was the best player of his team in the semifinals I don't know why and look like he was to anxious.