Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story

[CobyWhite0]

Considering league averages in scoring, 22 ppg in a tougher defended era of basketball is more impressive than 25 ppg in a soft era of basketball.

Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a better overall player than Pippen, but let's put it this way. I would have enjoyed watching Lebron play in the same era as Pip/Jordan and especially would have enjoyed watching the boys absolutely shut him down.

Different rules. Different games.

Pippen is a legend and well deserved at that. Scottie's biggest black eye in his career was sitting out in the New York series. Outside of that, Scottie is well regarded by everyone. A competitor. One of the most dynamic players the game ever saw.

How ridiculous is it?

As has been said, 22.0 pts/game for Pippen (1994) was 8th in the league. 19.1 pts/game was 20th in the league.
27 years later, 25.0 pts/game would only be good for 16th in the league. 23.8 pts/game was 20th in the league.

Like most everything in life, context matters.

[dice]

Pippen was so flakey and mentally weak at times. Super talented but I don't think he would have ever been as good without MJ pushing his butt everyday. MJ made Pip IMHO. He would have been just a guy or above average starter.

why was his best season when MJ stepped aside? it's not like he took it easy when his tormenter was out of the picture. instead he took it to another level

i seriously doubt that krause loved pippen as a prospect because he thought that MJ (a guy he didn't draft and was presumably already at odds with) would whip him into shape

i do suspect that MJ was a positive factor in pippen's career. but that's just as much a tribute to scottie as an asterisk on his accomplishments. i'm sure that a number of young teammates developed poorly because they couldn't handle MJ's leadership style

[dice]

Bulls won games with him as a leader but it was mostly on defense, our offense was extremely average, 14th.

with 22% of the payroll playing baseball

[TheStig]

Pippen was so flakey and mentally weak at times. Super talented but I don't think he would have ever been as good without MJ pushing his butt everyday. MJ made Pip IMHO. He would have been just a guy or above average starter.

why was his best season when MJ stepped aside? it's not like he took it easy when his tormenter was out of the picture. instead he took it to another level

i seriously doubt that krause loved pippen as a prospect because he thought that MJ (a guy he didn't draft and was presumably already at odds with) would whip him into shape

i do suspect that MJ was a positive factor in pippen's career. but that's just as much a tribute to scottie as an asterisk on his accomplishments. i'm sure that a number of young teammates developed poorly because they couldn't handle MJ's leadership style

Why is MJ refered to as his tormentor? By all accounts they got along well and he worked with MJ a lot. Hence a lot of the development. I know he rubbed some guys the wrong way. So does every star.

Did Krause know that Stacey King was going to flop? Did Rod Thorn who drafted MJ know he'd be the Goat? GM's don't know it all on draft day.

It's not an asterick. I think MJ helped him really reach his peak and covered up that his offense was nowhere near as good as his defense. Add in thinks like sitting out the final shot vs the knicks, migrane game 7, back surgery to start the year that could have done during the offseason.

[dice]

Pip was great in '94, but he wasn't the best.

Pippen 22 ppg 8.7 rpg 5.6 apg 2.9 spg 0.8 bpg 51.5% eFG (I'll use eFG since TS% wasn't a thing back then)
Olajuwon 27 ppg 11.9 rpg 3.6 apg 1.6 spg 3.7 bpg 53.0% eFG
Shaquille 29 ppg 13.2 rpg 2.4 apg 0.9 spg 2.9 bpg 59.9% eFG
Admiral 30 ppg 10.7 rpg 4.8 apg 1.7 spg 3.3 bpg 51.0% eFG

Mailman also had better #s than Scottie but not a Malone fan myself.

Kinda like Robinson, Scottie's offensive limits were really shown in the playoffs. Post season his scoring cratered to 46% eFG while Horace & BJ were scoring at 55% eFG. I was often very frustrated with Scottie's post game, and thought our best post player from a skill standpoint was actually Kukoc (and Toni wasn't nearly as good as those names above), which is to say Scottie wasn't great.

that season's regular season VORP rankings:

1. David Robinson* • SAS 11.4

2. John Stockton* • UTA 7.5
3. Hakeem Olajuwon* • HOU 7.3
4. Shaquille O'Neal* • ORL 7.2
5. Scottie Pippen* • CHI 6.8
6. Karl Malone* • UTA 6.5
7. Mookie Blaylock • ATL 5.7
8. Patrick Ewing* • NYK 5.5
9. Mark Price • CLE 5.0
10. Reggie Miller* • IND 4.5
11. Derrick Coleman • NJN 4.4
12. Shawn Kemp • SEA 4.2
13. Charles Barkley* • PHO 4.2
14. Rod Strickland • POR 4.1
15. Horace Grant • CHI 3.9

flawed stat, but looks pretty reasonable. pip was a distant 3rd in the MVP voting, just ahead of shaq and ewing

I don't think Scottie makes the top 50 or the original Dream Team without Michael. We were never going to win another title with Scottie as our 1st option.

i think those are safe bets

[dice]

Pippen was so flakey and mentally weak at times. Super talented but I don't think he would have ever been as good without MJ pushing his butt everyday. MJ made Pip IMHO. He would have been just a guy or above average starter.

why was his best season when MJ stepped aside? it's not like he took it easy when his tormenter was out of the picture. instead he took it to another level

i seriously doubt that krause loved pippen as a prospect because he thought that MJ (a guy he didn't draft and was presumably already at odds with) would whip him into shape

i do suspect that MJ was a positive factor in pippen's career. but that's just as much a tribute to scottie as an asterisk on his accomplishments. i'm sure that a number of young teammates developed poorly because they couldn't handle MJ's leadership style

Why is MJ refered to as his tormentor? By all accounts they got along well and he worked with MJ a lot. Hence a lot of the development. I know he rubbed some guys the wrong way. So does every star.

probably the wrong word. but if a guy was "pushing my butt everyday", as you put it...

Did Krause know that Stacey King was going to flop? Did Rod Thorn who drafted MJ know he'd be the Goat? GM's don't know it all on draft day.

my point was merely that scottie pippen was not some total project that MJ built up out of nothing. pip was a highly regarded prospect

It's not an asterick. I think MJ helped him really reach his peak and covered up that his offense was nowhere near as good as his defense. Add in thinks like sitting out the final shot vs the knicks, migrane game 7, back surgery to start the year that could have done during the offseason.

that's what an asterisk is: a qualifier on a guy's accomplishments. you're saying "yeah, he was a top 50 player, but..."

for the record, while i don't think he would have been AS good, i do think that pippen would have been an excellent player regardless. his defense was always going to be great. and if his offense wasn't nearly as good...then what exactly did MJ do for the guy?

[dice]

Ignoring the end results in the playoffs which were decided by one of the worst officiating calls in the history of basketball, Pippen's numbers that year were easily the best of his career. He set career highs in virtually everything from basic to advanced statistics. The next year where Jordan was there half the year was similar. The team result isn't necessarily relevant, you would expect a team to have considerable drop off in team result by subtracting the greatest player to ever play basketball from the team.

that '94 team had every right to deflate and go through the motions. they didn't because of the strength and leadership of phil jackson, scottie pippen and horace grant. and that doesn't happen on scottie's part without an innate desire to prove himself. which is a variation on the trait that led him to "write" this book

[jc23]

id be down to go to a book signing

[TheStig]

why was his best season when MJ stepped aside? it's not like he took it easy when his tormenter was out of the picture. instead he took it to another level

i seriously doubt that krause loved pippen as a prospect because he thought that MJ (a guy he didn't draft and was presumably already at odds with) would whip him into shape

i do suspect that MJ was a positive factor in pippen's career. but that's just as much a tribute to scottie as an asterisk on his accomplishments. i'm sure that a number of young teammates developed poorly because they couldn't handle MJ's leadership style

Why is MJ refered to as his tormentor? By all accounts they got along well and he worked with MJ a lot. Hence a lot of the development. I know he rubbed some guys the wrong way. So does every star.

probably the wrong word. but if a guy was "pushing my butt everyday", as you put it...

Did Krause know that Stacey King was going to flop? Did Rod Thorn who drafted MJ know he'd be the Goat? GM's don't know it all on draft day.

my point was merely that scottie pippen was not some total project that MJ built up out of nothing. pip was a highly regarded prospect

It's not an asterick. I think MJ helped him really reach his peak and covered up that his offense was nowhere near as good as his defense. Add in thinks like sitting out the final shot vs the knicks, migrane game 7, back surgery to start the year that could have done during the offseason.

that's what an asterisk is: a qualifier on a guy's accomplishments. you're saying "yeah, he was a top 50 player, but..."

for the record, while i don't think he would have been AS good, i do think that pippen would have been an excellent player regardless. his defense was always going to be great. and if his offense wasn't nearly as good...then what exactly did MJ do for the guy?

Scottie Pippen was a total project. He played for a NAIA school ( central arkansas). He started to shoot up draft boards in combine for his raw physical skills. He played behind brad sellers to start. Brad Sellers was above him in the depth chart. He didn't start a game as a rookie. If that's not a project, I don't know what is.....

I think he would have been a really really good player too. But I don't think he's 7 time all star and 6 time nba champion everywhere else. People bring up 93-94. But by 94-95 they were barely .500 before mj came back.

[Stratmaster]

So you think Malone, Ewing, Shaq, Dirk, Steph and Kawhi are/were all better than Pippen?

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[Stratmaster]

Why is MJ refered to as his tormentor? By all accounts they got along well and he worked with MJ a lot. Hence a lot of the development. I know he rubbed some guys the wrong way. So does every star.

probably the wrong word. but if a guy was "pushing my butt everyday", as you put it...

Did Krause know that Stacey King was going to flop? Did Rod Thorn who drafted MJ know he'd be the Goat? GM's don't know it all on draft day.

my point was merely that scottie pippen was not some total project that MJ built up out of nothing. pip was a highly regarded prospect

It's not an asterick. I think MJ helped him really reach his peak and covered up that his offense was nowhere near as good as his defense. Add in thinks like sitting out the final shot vs the knicks, migrane game 7, back surgery to start the year that could have done during the offseason.

that's what an asterisk is: a qualifier on a guy's accomplishments. you're saying "yeah, he was a top 50 player, but..."

for the record, while i don't think he would have been AS good, i do think that pippen would have been an excellent player regardless. his defense was always going to be great. and if his offense wasn't nearly as good...then what exactly did MJ do for the guy?

Scottie Pippen was a total project. He played for a NAIA school ( central arkansas). He started to shoot up draft boards in combine for his raw physical skills. He played behind brad sellers to start. Brad Sellers was above him in the depth chart. He didn't start a game as a rookie. If that's not a project, I don't know what is.....

I think he would have been a really really good player too. But I don't think he's 7 time all star and 6 time nba champion everywhere else. People bring up 93-94. But by 94-95 they were barely .500 before mj came back.

Pippen started 6 playoff games as a rookie, because he outplayed Sellers.

He played 24 or more minutes in over 30 of 79 games. He averaged 21 mpg.

Sellers was a #9 draft pick in his 2nd year, was 7' tall in an era where that wasn't common for anyone but the biggest centers. It's not like he sat on the bench watching a journeyman play all game long.

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[dukeespn]

Imagine overestimating a former player who never managed to average more than 24 points in a single season/playoffs series but was a tremendous passer & defender. And that same guy overestimates a current player who scores with ease but can't pass & defend well.

Very Interesting. That guy must have no idea how to evaluate players properly since he loves using double-standard.

[Stratmaster]

Imagine overestimating a former player who never managed to average more than 24 points in a single season/playoffs series but was a tremendous passer & defender. And that same guy overestimates a current player who scores with ease but can't pass & defend well.

Very Interesting. That guy must have no idea how to evaluate players properly since he loves using double-standard.

Imagine a guy getting his kicks by flaming posts on message boards. Imagine the lack of a life that same guy must have.

I get that the mods let that guy get away with this BS. But Imagine what a lame human being he must be.

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[fleet]

Good for Pippen.

Last Dance was a Jordan propaganda piece.

Maybe. Scottie comes off Jelly with this angle however

[MAQ]

Pippen made Pippen looks bad in The Last Dance. No one forced him to say he wasnt about to **** up his summer. Maybe he thought it wouldn't have been included in the final cut.

[dougthonus]

So you think Malone, Ewing, Shaq, Dirk, Steph and Kawhi are/were all better than Pippen?

I think Shaq, Kawhi, Steph, and Dirk aren't questions to me. Malone / Ewing are more questions to me, but I think they're probably better. I'm 45, so I watched those guys largely as a teenager, and have less faith in my opinion at that age when I also didn't watch the league as a whole as much as I did later.

Kawhi has carried a team to a title with pedestrian talent around him and won another title as the best player with very good talent around him. Shaq has made every team he's been on a contender by his mere presence, that isn't even close. Steph was the #1 guy on a team with two of the best seasons ever, Dirk carried a team to a championship and another NBA finals appearance and more or less a career full of playoff runs without a real star next to him.

I don't think Pippen could have done any of those things.

Ewing/Malone are tougher to rate because they didn't ever win the big one, but I think both those guys made their teams perennial contenders that Pippen probably wouldn't have done in the same situation.

[TheFinishSniper]

Like with everything there are 2 sides to every story. Pip likely feels slighted but thats just who Pip is. I Will gladly hear his story but i dont expect new revealtions

[logical_art]

Pippen is a weird guy. He was one of the most unselfish players ever on the court, but then he was always getting sensitive about not getting credit for being such a great unselfish player. He selfishly wants credit for being so unselfish.

[Stratmaster]

So you think Malone, Ewing, Shaq, Dirk, Steph and Kawhi are/were all better than Pippen?

I think Shaq, Kawhi, Steph, and Dirk aren't questions to me. Malone / Ewing are more questions to me, but I think they're probably better. I'm 45, so I watched those guys largely as a teenager, and have less faith in my opinion at that age when I also didn't watch the league as a whole as much as I did later.

Kawhi has carried a team to a title with pedestrian talent around him and won another title as the best player with very good talent around him. Shaq has made every team he's been on a contender by his mere presence, that isn't even close. Steph was the #1 guy on a team with two of the best seasons ever, Dirk carried a team to a championship and another NBA finals appearance and more or less a career full of playoff runs without a real star next to him.

I don't think Pippen could have done any of those things.

Ewing/Malone are tougher to rate because they didn't ever win the big one, but I think both those guys made their teams perennial contenders that Pippen probably wouldn't have done in the same situation.

Shaq was big. That was his skill. The refs let him get away with the basketball equivalent of murder. He started in an era that favored big men and he was the biggest of them. He has one season where he carried a team, just like Pippen. His real success came playing alongside superstars. In my opinion he is the most overrated player in NBA history.

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[dice]

Why is MJ refered to as his tormentor? By all accounts they got along well and he worked with MJ a lot. Hence a lot of the development. I know he rubbed some guys the wrong way. So does every star.

probably the wrong word. but if a guy was "pushing my butt everyday", as you put it...

Did Krause know that Stacey King was going to flop? Did Rod Thorn who drafted MJ know he'd be the Goat? GM's don't know it all on draft day.

my point was merely that scottie pippen was not some total project that MJ built up out of nothing. pip was a highly regarded prospect

It's not an asterick. I think MJ helped him really reach his peak and covered up that his offense was nowhere near as good as his defense. Add in thinks like sitting out the final shot vs the knicks, migrane game 7, back surgery to start the year that could have done during the offseason.

that's what an asterisk is: a qualifier on a guy's accomplishments. you're saying "yeah, he was a top 50 player, but..."

for the record, while i don't think he would have been AS good, i do think that pippen would have been an excellent player regardless. his defense was always going to be great. and if his offense wasn't nearly as good...then what exactly did MJ do for the guy?

Scottie Pippen was a total project. He played for a NAIA school ( central arkansas). He started to shoot up draft boards in combine for his raw physical skills. He played behind brad sellers to start. Brad Sellers was above him in the depth chart. He didn't start a game as a rookie. If that's not a project, I don't know what is.....

brad sellers was the #9 pick the previous season. he also came off the bench as a rookie. he got his shot as a "sophomore", he failed, the baton was passed to scottie

the #3 and #4 picks in scottie's draft came off the bench as rookies as well. not NAIA, not projects. ohio state and georgetown. that was much more common those days

I think he would have been a really really good player too. But I don't think he's 7 time all star and 6 time nba champion everywhere else. People bring up 93-94. But by 94-95 they were barely .500 before mj came back.

there's a wide, WIDE gulf between 7x all-star, 6x champion and "average to above average starter", which is what you claim he would've been w/o michael jordan

and MJ himself played on sub-.500 teams. you failed to mention that the bulls lost horace grant in '94-'95. it was pippen, kukoc and a bunch of role players