Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[payitforward]

Rui won't be traded, b/c he has too much marketing value.

From a pure basketball perspective, it would be a no-brainer to take Bridges straight up for him. They are the same age, but Bridges has established himself & has been a substantially better player than Rui.

Definitely not swapping Rui for him...

Am I understanding you right that, just based on competitive value, you wouldn't swap Rui for Miles Bridges? You'd rather have Rui?

Or are you agreeing with me that he's extra-valuable to a team for reasons that aren't about what he does on the court?

If the former -- that Rui is simply a better basketball player than Miles Bridges -- I'd be fascinated to read how you would support that claim, since it seems so obviously incorrect. I.e. Miles Bridges is unquestionably the more productive player -- much more.

The two guys score almost exactly the same number of points per 36 minutes -- Rui is .15 points up on Bridges -- but Miles Bridges posts a 59.3% FG% on 2 point shots, while Rui is at 51.9%. & Bridges shoots the 3 at 40% compared to Rui's 32.8% (Bridges also takes twice as many of them!). Finally, Bridges is 86% from the line compared to Rui's 77%.

Overall, that leaves Bridges with a 62.5% TS% compared to Rui at 54.9% -- that's not even close. It's not even close to being close to tell the truth.

Bridges also gets almost 20% more rebounds than Rui.

Please explain.

[Shoe]

Rui won't be traded, b/c he has too much marketing value.

From a pure basketball perspective, it would be a no-brainer to take Bridges straight up for him. They are the same age, but Bridges has established himself & has been a substantially better player than Rui.

Definitely not swapping Rui for him...

Am I understanding you right that, just based on competitive value, you wouldn't swap Rui for Miles Bridges? You'd rather have Rui?

Or are you agreeing with me that he's extra-valuable to a team for reasons that aren't about what he does on the court?

If the former -- that Rui is simply a better basketball player than Miles Bridges -- I'd be fascinated to read how you would support that claim, since it seems so obviously incorrect. I.e. Miles Bridges is unquestionably the more productive player -- much more.

The two guys score almost exactly the same number of points per 36 minutes -- Rui is .15 points up on Bridges -- but Miles Bridges posts a 59.3% FG% on 2 point shots, while Rui is at 51.9%. & Bridges shoots the 3 at 40% compared to Rui's 32.8% (Bridges also takes twice as many of them!). Finally, Bridges is 86% from the line compared to Rui's 77%.

Overall, that leaves Bridges with a 62.5% TS% compared to Rui at 54.9% -- that's not even close. It's not even close to being close to tell the truth.

Bridges also gets almost 20% more rebounds than Rui.

Please explain.

In 211 games Miles Bridges has shot 321 free throws.

In 105 games Rui Hachimura has shot 301 free throws.

46 players averaged +4 fta this year. Of those 36 have made an all star team. Those who haven't include Wood, Morant, Fox, SGA, Grant. Rui would need to add 1.2 fta per game to join that group.

Bridges was a 52 TS% player in year 2. Rui arguabley had a better sophomore season.

[payitforward]

...46 players averaged +4 fta this year. Of those 36 have made an all star team. Those who haven't include Wood, Morant, Fox, SGA, Grant. Rui would need to add 1.2 fta per game to join that group...

Wow... fun with numbers. How about a link?

How many other players in the league could join those 46 guys if they only added 1.2 FTAs per game?

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...Bridges was a .52 TS% player in year 2. Rui arguably had a better sophomore season.

True -- Bridges had a pretty awful 2d year, it's true. Really bad. You could even say that Rui's was just slightly better than his.

But Bridges had a far better rookie year & a pretty outstanding 3d year.

Now, Rui hasn't yet played his 3d year -- he might also have an outstanding 3d year.

Overall, however, isn't this all kind of silly? Bridges clearly has been the better player overall in his NBA career so far. I think the two guys are just about the same age. Anyone not a Wizards homer would prefer Bridges over Rui.

[FAH1223]

We shoulda traded Wall for CP3 lol

[Shoe]

Overall, however, isn't this all kind of silly? Bridges clearly has been the better player overall in his NBA career so far. I think the two guys are just about the same age. Anyone not a Wizards homer would prefer Bridges over Rui.

So far your evaluations on who is a better player have been questionable to put it generously. A guy who racks up DNPs in the playoffs is better than someone who shoots the lights out against a vaunted Sixers defense - yeah right.

Here's the facts jack:
Rui has better ball skills than Bridges.
He gets to the line more.

Ergo more potential to be an all star. Ergo we don't want to trade future all stars for role players.

[Ruzious]

Overall, however, isn't this all kind of silly? Bridges clearly has been the better player overall in his NBA career so far. I think the two guys are just about the same age. Anyone not a Wizards homer would prefer Bridges over Rui.

So far your evaluations on who is a better player have been questionable to put it generously. A guy who racks up DNPs in the playoffs is better than someone who shoots the lights out against a vaunted Sixers defense - yeah right.

Here's the facts jack:
Rui has better ball skills than Bridges.
He gets to the line more.

Ergo more potential to be an all star. Ergo we don't want to trade future all stars for role players.

To be Ruz (Frank's cousin), I think you're very far off on this one. Just watching them play, Bridges is a far better player with a much better chance to be an all-star and a chance to be the 1st or 2nd option on a very good team. If you just look at stats rather than games, look at how these guys trended. Over the last 20 games of the regular season, Bridges averaged over 20 PPG with a 64% TS%, 46 3's in 101 attempts, made 87% of his FT's - and he'll get more FT's as he gets more respect from officials, got 7 rebounds a game playing mostly 3, had 20 blocks, 16 steals, 43 assists to 29 to's, played 35.6 minutes a game. Rui did everything worse... including FT attempts - most things significantly worse. And they're the same age - Rui's a month or 2 older.

[Shoe]

Overall, however, isn't this all kind of silly? Bridges clearly has been the better player overall in his NBA career so far. I think the two guys are just about the same age. Anyone not a Wizards homer would prefer Bridges over Rui.

So far your evaluations on who is a better player have been questionable to put it generously. A guy who racks up DNPs in the playoffs is better than someone who shoots the lights out against a vaunted Sixers defense - yeah right.

Here's the facts jack:
Rui has better ball skills than Bridges.
He gets to the line more.

Ergo more potential to be an all star. Ergo we don't want to trade future all stars for role players.

To be Ruz (Frank's cousin), I think you're very far off on this one. Just watching them play, Bridges is a far better player with a much better chance to be an all-star and a chance to be the 1st or 2nd option on a very good team. If you just look at stats rather than games, look at how these guys trended. Over the last 20 games of the regular season, Bridges averaged over 20 PPG with a 64% TS%, 46 3's in 101 attempts, made 87% of his FT's - and he'll get more FT's as he gets more respect from officials, got 7 rebounds a game playing mostly 3, had 20 blocks, 16 steals, 43 assists to 29 to's, played 35.6 minutes a game. Rui did everything worse... including FT attempts - most things significantly worse. And they're the same age - Rui's a month or 2 older.

Putting the last 20 regular season games into perspective, Rui-san was at the nadir of his career, courageously battling knee tendinitis. After a four game shutdown, he came back to play 17 final games of the official NBA calendar year. In those games-

-a sterling 64 TS% on 16 points per game
-6 high impact rebounds per game

Bridges is a good ball player; he's scrappy, plays with a lot of heart. But tallying the same number of free throws as Rui in twice the number of games? Hard to say if he will be able to bridge that gap into volume scorer.

Addendum: I'd be remiss if I didn't cite isolation play numbers.

Rui - 76th - 1.1
Bridges - 139th - 0.6

Hard to find a stronger correlation for all star appearances than isolation volume. Just getting your number called to run one denotes a certain ability in one's game. 76th may not seem great until you see the list is populated by guards. (efficiency is a work in progress).

[Ruzious]

So far your evaluations on who is a better player have been questionable to put it generously. A guy who racks up DNPs in the playoffs is better than someone who shoots the lights out against a vaunted Sixers defense - yeah right.

Here's the facts jack:
Rui has better ball skills than Bridges.
He gets to the line more.

Ergo more potential to be an all star. Ergo we don't want to trade future all stars for role players.

To be Ruz (Frank's cousin), I think you're very far off on this one. Just watching them play, Bridges is a far better player with a much better chance to be an all-star and a chance to be the 1st or 2nd option on a very good team. If you just look at stats rather than games, look at how these guys trended. Over the last 20 games of the regular season, Bridges averaged over 20 PPG with a 64% TS%, 46 3's in 101 attempts, made 87% of his FT's - and he'll get more FT's as he gets more respect from officials, got 7 rebounds a game playing mostly 3, had 20 blocks, 16 steals, 43 assists to 29 to's, played 35.6 minutes a game. Rui did everything worse... including FT attempts - most things significantly worse. And they're the same age - Rui's a month or 2 older.

Putting the last 20 regular season games into perspective, Rui-san was at the nadir of his career, courageously battling knee tendinitis. After a four game shutdown, he came back to play 17 final games of the official NBA calendar year. In those games-

-a sterling 64 TS% on 16 points per game
-6 high impact rebounds per game

Bridges is a good ball player; he's scrappy, plays with a lot of heart. But tallying the same number of free throws as Rui in twice the number of games? Hard to say if he will be able to bridge that gap into volume scorer.

Addendum: I'd be remiss if I didn't cite isolation play numbers.

Rui - 76th - 1.1
Bridges - 139th - 0.6

Hard to find a stronger correlation for all star appearances than isolation volume. Just getting your number called to run one denotes a certain ability in one's game. 76th may not seem great until you see the list is populated by guards. (efficiency is a work in progress).

Is any of that intended to be serious? I know his TS% was way under that, so I didn't bother with the rest.

[Shoe]

To be Ruz (Frank's cousin), I think you're very far off on this one. Just watching them play, Bridges is a far better player with a much better chance to be an all-star and a chance to be the 1st or 2nd option on a very good team. If you just look at stats rather than games, look at how these guys trended. Over the last 20 games of the regular season, Bridges averaged over 20 PPG with a 64% TS%, 46 3's in 101 attempts, made 87% of his FT's - and he'll get more FT's as he gets more respect from officials, got 7 rebounds a game playing mostly 3, had 20 blocks, 16 steals, 43 assists to 29 to's, played 35.6 minutes a game. Rui did everything worse... including FT attempts - most things significantly worse. And they're the same age - Rui's a month or 2 older.

Putting the last 20 regular season games into perspective, Rui-san was at the nadir of his career, courageously battling knee tendinitis. After a four game shutdown, he came back to play 17 final games of the official NBA calendar year. In those games-

-a sterling 64 TS% on 16 points per game
-6 high impact rebounds per game

Bridges is a good ball player; he's scrappy, plays with a lot of heart. But tallying the same number of free throws as Rui in twice the number of games? Hard to say if he will be able to bridge that gap into volume scorer.

Addendum: I'd be remiss if I didn't cite isolation play numbers.

Rui - 76th - 1.1
Bridges - 139th - 0.6

Hard to find a stronger correlation for all star appearances than isolation volume. Just getting your number called to run one denotes a certain ability in one's game. 76th may not seem great until you see the list is populated by guards. (efficiency is a work in progress).

Is any of that intended to be serious?

??? All of it is serious.

Rui had a great final 17 games of his season. He runs more ISO than Bridges. He gets to the line more. He fought through tendinitis before he was shut down for four games.

[Shoe]

I know his TS% was way under that, so I didn't bother with the rest.

The final 10 games of the regular season he had a 59 TS%. In the 7 games of the play in and playoffs he had a 70 TS%.

[Ruzious]

I know his TS% was way under that, so I didn't bother with the rest.

The final 10 games of the regular season he had a 59 TS%. In the 7 games of the play in and playoffs he had a 70 TS%.

What I do know is that in the last 18 games of the regular season, his TS% was .478 in 11 games in April and .570 in 7 games in May. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hachiru01/splits/2021 In the playoffs, he didn't do much - until the last 2 games - when it didn't really matter. In the 1st 3 games, he had a good shooting percentage - but he pretty much did a disappearing act in everything else, and he did a lousy job on the boards as the PF. So far, he's stunk as a rebounder as an NBA PF. And unlike a guy like Lopez, he doesn't make up for it with good blocking out - he's every bit as bad at that as he is a rebounder. He also doesn't get assists, blocks, or steals, and he's not as athletic or as skilled or as dynamic as Bridges. And I'm not giving him extra credit for having to miss time for tendonitis. Also, in their last 20 regular season games, Rui attempted 42 FT's while Bridges attempted 56. We should look back at these posts several times next season.

[Shoe]

I know his TS% was way under that, so I didn't bother with the rest.

The final 10 games of the regular season he had a 59 TS%. In the 7 games of the play in and playoffs he had a 70 TS%.

What I do know is that in the last 18 games of the regular season, his TS% was .478 in 11 games in April and .570 in 7 games in May. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hachiru01/splits/2021 In the playoffs, he didn't do much - until the last 2 games - when it didn't really matter. In the 1st 3 games, he had a good shooting percentage - but he pretty much did a disappearing act, and he did a lousy job on the boards as the PF. So far, he's stunk as a rebounder as an NBA PF. And unlike a guy like Lopez, he doesn't make up for it with good blocking out - he's every bit as bad at that as he is a rebounder.

So you have to ignore his injury smack dab in the middle of April¹ to paint this narrative. Being shutdown for four straight games is significant; it denotes wear and tear. We have a 17 game sample size after he recovered - seems more contextual and less arbitrary than going month by month.

So playoff games don't matter now. A Tuesday night in February has more relevance than an elimination game against the Sixers. Sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through just to denigrate a second year player.

¹actually Rui was shutdown for two games starting on April 3rd, then for four more games on April 19th. A tumultuous month to be sure.

[Ruzious]

The final 10 games of the regular season he had a 59 TS%. In the 7 games of the play in and playoffs he had a 70 TS%.

What I do know is that in the last 18 games of the regular season, his TS% was .478 in 11 games in April and .570 in 7 games in May. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hachiru01/splits/2021 In the playoffs, he didn't do much - until the last 2 games - when it didn't really matter. In the 1st 3 games, he had a good shooting percentage - but he pretty much did a disappearing act, and he did a lousy job on the boards as the PF. So far, he's stunk as a rebounder as an NBA PF. And unlike a guy like Lopez, he doesn't make up for it with good blocking out - he's every bit as bad at that as he is a rebounder.

So you have to ignore his injury smack dab in the middle of April¹ to paint this narrative. Being shutdown for four straight games is significant; it denotes wear and tear. We have a 17 game sample size after he recovered - seems more contextual and less arbitrary than going month by month.

So playoff games don't matter now. A Tuesday night in February has more relevance than an elimination game against the Sixers. Sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through just to denigrate a second year player.

¹actually Rui was shutdown for two games starting on April 3rd, then for four more games on April 19th. A tumultuous month to be sure.

Getting injured denotes lack of durability - which is a negative for a player. Besides which, everyone in the NBA gets some level of tendonitis. Some are able to play through it, and others aren't.

[Shoe]

What I do know is that in the last 18 games of the regular season, his TS% was .478 in 11 games in April and .570 in 7 games in May. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hachiru01/splits/2021 In the playoffs, he didn't do much - until the last 2 games - when it didn't really matter. In the 1st 3 games, he had a good shooting percentage - but he pretty much did a disappearing act, and he did a lousy job on the boards as the PF. So far, he's stunk as a rebounder as an NBA PF. And unlike a guy like Lopez, he doesn't make up for it with good blocking out - he's every bit as bad at that as he is a rebounder.

So you have to ignore his injury smack dab in the middle of April¹ to paint this narrative. Being shutdown for four straight games is significant; it denotes wear and tear. We have a 17 game sample size after he recovered - seems more contextual and less arbitrary than going month by month.

So playoff games don't matter now. A Tuesday night in February has more relevance than an elimination game against the Sixers. Sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through just to denigrate a second year player.

¹actually Rui was shutdown for two games starting on April 3rd, then for four more games on April 19th. A tumultuous month to be sure.

Getting injured denotes lack of durability - which is a negative for a player. Besides which, everyone in the NBA gets some level of tendonitis. Some are able to play through it, and others aren't.

Bouncing back from injury and performing better than ever denotes resilience. Such a great quality to have in the future face of our franchise.

[Ruzious]

So you have to ignore his injury smack dab in the middle of April¹ to paint this narrative. Being shutdown for four straight games is significant; it denotes wear and tear. We have a 17 game sample size after he recovered - seems more contextual and less arbitrary than going month by month.

So playoff games don't matter now. A Tuesday night in February has more relevance than an elimination game against the Sixers. Sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through just to denigrate a second year player.

¹actually Rui was shutdown for two games starting on April 3rd, then for four more games on April 19th. A tumultuous month to be sure.

Getting injured denotes lack of durability - which is a negative for a player. Besides which, everyone in the NBA gets some level of tendonitis. Some are able to play through it, and others aren't.

Bouncing back from injury and performing better than ever denotes resilience. Such a great quality to have in the future face of our franchise.

Do you think he played well overall against Philly? I thought his play showed that we need to improve quite a bit at PF.

[payitforward]

This exchange demonstrates to a T the problem with the discussions we have about Rui Hachimura -- or to put it slightly differently the peculiar ways (to me at least) Rui's devoted supporters insist on discussing him.

(Best illustrated perhaps by the nonsensical claim that Rui is somehow a potential all star b/c of how often he gets to the FT line, when this year, Rui got to the FT line at virtually the exact average rate for all NBA 4s!)

It just seems not to be ok to point to anything Rui does on the basketball court & say "that isn't good." If it can't be straight out denied, then it must be explained away. & if it can't be explained away, why then it must not be important.

Has this board ever discussed another Wizards rookie in that way? Any other Wizards player?

As to Miles Bridges, there's no great reason to compare Rui with him & not much benefit to doing it. These are a couple of young guys neither of whom has peaked.

But, if you must do it, take off the blinders: there's just no denying that Bridges has been much better in his 3 year career than Rui has in his 2 year career. He shoots a higher 2 point %, he shoots a higher 3 pt. %. & neither difference is small. His TS% on the season this year was 62.5% -- Rui was 54.9%. That's a big difference not a small one.

He also gets way more offensive rebounds than Rui. More defensive boards too. & way more assists. & way more blocks. Rui turns it over less, fouls a little less & steals a little more. That's good -- but it doesn't come near to bridging the really large productivity gap between these 2 young players: overall Bridges is well above average. Overall, Rui is way below average.

[Shoe]

Getting injured denotes lack of durability - which is a negative for a player. Besides which, everyone in the NBA gets some level of tendonitis. Some are able to play through it, and others aren't.

Bouncing back from injury and performing better than ever denotes resilience. Such a great quality to have in the future face of our franchise.

Do you think he played well overall against Philly? I thought his play showed that we need to improve quite a bit at PF.

I thought he did a fine job. Defensively the Wizards weren't switching on Embiid screens, so he had to navigate those. It was one of the strictest no - switch schemes of the year. Offensively he hit some big three's. For a second year player it was not a bad debut at all. They should have ran more actions for him, while Westbrook needed to be reigned in with his 33% from the field on 16 attempts.

[Ruzious]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/nba-world-reacts-to-the-luka-doncic-rumors/ar-AAL20uf?li=BBnbfcL

I think we're obliged to make stupid trade suggestions for Luka.

[Shoe]

(Best illustrated perhaps by the nonsensical claim that Rui is somehow a potential all star b/c of how often he gets to the FT line, when this year, Rui got to the FT line at virtually the exact average rate for all NBA 4s!)

Not bad for a second year player. For context though, how many of his fellow bigs are going to the line because they shoot 60%? It's rarer for someone shooting 80% on their career to go to the line, because teams aren't trying to put them there.

Rui turns it over less, fouls a little less & steals a little more. That's good --

Such a disciplined player.