Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[Ruzious]

(Best illustrated perhaps by the nonsensical claim that Rui is somehow a potential all star b/c of how often he gets to the FT line, when this year, Rui got to the FT line at virtually the exact average rate for all NBA 4s!)

Not bad for a second year player. For context though, how many of his fellow bigs are going to the line because they shoot 60%? It's rarer for someone shooting 80% on their career to go to the line, because teams aren't trying to put them there.

Rui turns it over less, fouls a little less & steals a little more. That's good --

Such a disciplined player.

Give it up. You're bragging on him for averaging 2.8 foul shot attempts per game in 31.5 minutes a game.

He gets basically no assists, steals, or blocks, and he's an awful rebounder. He drew about 3 offensive fouls all season. He made less than a 3rd of his 3's. He made 52% of his 2's - which PF's should do. He didn't have many to's because he hardly ever passes. He's so often a step slow in recognizing when he needs to make defensive switches. He'll get better, but he's still at the bottom in so many areas.

[Shoe]

(Best illustrated perhaps by the nonsensical claim that Rui is somehow a potential all star b/c of how often he gets to the FT line, when this year, Rui got to the FT line at virtually the exact average rate for all NBA 4s!)

Not bad for a second year player. For context though, how many of his fellow bigs are going to the line because they shoot 60%? It's rarer for someone shooting 80% on their career to go to the line, because teams aren't trying to put them there.

Rui turns it over less, fouls a little less & steals a little more. That's good --

Such a disciplined player.

Give it up. You're bragging on him for averaging 2.8 foul shot attempts per game in 31.5 minutes a game.

He gets basically no assists, steals, or blocks, and he's an awful rebounder. He drew about 3 offensive fouls all season. He made less than a 3rd of his 3's. He made 52% of his 2's - which PF's should do. He didn't have many to's because he hardly ever passes. He's so often a step slow in recognizing when he needs to make defensive switches. He'll get better, but he's still at the bottom in so many areas.

Sorry I don't subscribe to the notion that someone who doesn't isolate one iota, is anemic at getting to the line, is more likely to become an all star than someone who does both.

If you have to dismiss Rui's performance in the playoffs as meaningless, maybe you are the one who needs to quote give it up.

*also we're talking about his MPG as if he's not sporting a lean 18.1% usage - 115th in the league - while his FTA is good for 63rd in the league.

[Ruzious]

Not bad for a second year player. For context though, how many of his fellow bigs are going to the line because they shoot 60%? It's rarer for someone shooting 80% on their career to go to the line, because teams aren't trying to put them there.



Such a disciplined player.

Give it up. You're bragging on him for averaging 2.8 foul shot attempts per game in 31.5 minutes a game.

He gets basically no assists, steals, or blocks, and he's an awful rebounder. He drew about 3 offensive fouls all season. He made less than a 3rd of his 3's. He made 52% of his 2's - which PF's should do. He didn't have many to's because he hardly ever passes. He's so often a step slow in recognizing when he needs to make defensive switches. He'll get better, but he's still at the bottom in so many areas.

Sorry I don't subscribe to the notion that someone who doesn't isolate one iota, is anemic at getting to the line, is more likely to become an all star than someone who does both.

If you have to dismiss Rui's performance in the playoffs as meaningless, maybe you are the one who needs to quote give it up.

*also we're talking about his MPG as if he's not sporting a lean 18.1% usage - 115th in the league - while his FTA is good for 63rd in the league.

Obviously, you didn't pay attention to a thing I said - still starting off bragging about Rui's FTA's rate while bashing Bridges' - even though I told you that Bridges got significantly more FTA's in their last 20 games. I'm done with this until next season - and it will be brought up next season.

[payitforward]

This is what I mean -- & it has nothing to do with Miles Bridges.

Rui got to the line at an almost exactly average rate for a PF in the NBA. That's just a fact, nothing more nothing less.

[Shoe]

Obviously, you didn't pay attention to a thing I said - still starting off bragging about Rui's FTA's rate while bashing Bridges' - even though I told you that Bridges got significantly more FTA's in their last 20 games. I'm done with this until next season - and it will be brought up next season.

I was just stating the fact that one player has shown more aptitude in drawing contact. In Bridges hottest 20 game stretch of his career he hit (2.8 FTA) almost what Rui has been doing for 105 games (2.9 FTA). Don't know why it's controversial to think the latter player has a much higher ceiling in that area of the game, or that he has a clear path to reach it with more touches and usage.

This is what I mean -- & it has nothing to do with Miles Bridges.

Rui got to the line at an almost exactly average rate for a PF in the NBA. That's just a fact, nothing more nothing less.

And his 80% free throw shooting is higher than league average. That's for the whole league, not just front court players.

It looks like everyone is in agreement Rui's skill set augurs a bright future.

[payitforward]

Obviously, you didn't pay attention to a thing I said - still starting off bragging about Rui's FTA's rate while bashing Bridges' - even though I told you that Bridges got significantly more FTA's in their last 20 games. I'm done with this until next season - and it will be brought up next season.

I was just stating the fact that one player has shown more aptitude in drawing contact....

Oh. Is that all you were doing? My mistake. & if so, by the same logic, I'd like you to agree to the following:

Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in shooting the 3 pointer.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in shooting the 2 pointer.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in shooting a high % on his FTs.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in shooting the 3 pointer at higher volume & keeping his % extremely high.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in offensive rebounding.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in defensive rebounding.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in getting assists.

Let's hear from you on those facts, ok?

...In Bridges hottest 20 game stretch of his career he hit (2.8 FTA) almost what Rui has been doing for 105 games (2.9 FTA). Don't know why it's controversial to think the latter player has a much higher ceiling in that area of the game, or that he has a clear path to reach it with more touches and usage...

Nothing controversial about it at all -- as long as you agree that there is nothing controversial in thinking that Miles Bridges "...has a much higher ceiling in the areas of the game" I mentioned above -- & "...that he has a clear path to reach it with more touches and usage...."

Let's read the explicit words from you, ok?

Rui got to the line at an almost exactly average rate for a PF in the NBA. That's just a fact, nothing more nothing less.

And his 80% free throw shooting is higher than league average....

Only... Rui's FT% was 77%

Why don't you go check what Miles Bridges % was from the line. Then you can come in here & tell a lie about it.

It looks like everyone is in agreement Rui's skill set augurs a bright future.

What a clever, cutting irony. Thing is, though: I don't know how Rui will turn out, & neither do you.

Definitely hard to see how your bullshot would help him.

[payitforward]

(Best illustrated perhaps by the nonsensical claim that Rui is somehow a potential all star b/c of how often he gets to the FT line, when this year, Rui got to the FT line at virtually the exact average rate for all NBA 4s!)

Not bad for a second year player. For context though, how many of his fellow bigs are going to the line because they shoot 60%? It's rarer for someone shooting 80% on their career to go to the line, because teams aren't trying to put them there. ...

It's always a little hard to understand a person who's trying to make a point with his foot in his mouth. So I'd better ask a couple of questions to make sure I understand:

1. Bridges shot FTs at 86.7% -- are you suggesting that he doesn't shoot them in volume, because teams don't want to put him there? Is that it?

2. The average FT% of a 4 this year was 76.5%. Rui shot 77%. Are you suggesting that is an especially good %. Or do you mean that it's "not bad for a second year player?"

3. If the latter, no problem -- I agree. But, in that case, wasn't Bridges' 80.9% from the line his 2d year even better? How about his 86.7% this year -- is that "not bad for a third year player?"

[payitforward]

Ok. Like Ruzious, I'm out of this pointless discussion.

Let it go, Shoe -- I'm not going to read another post on the subject.

[Shoe]

Oh. Is that all you were doing? My mistake. & if so, by the same logic, I'd like you to agree to the following:

Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in shooting the 3 pointer.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in shooting the 2 pointer.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in shooting a high % on his FTs.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in shooting the 3 pointer at higher volume & keeping his % extremely high.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in offensive rebounding.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in defensive rebounding.
Miles Bridges has more aptitude than Rui Hachimura in getting assists.

Let's hear from you on those facts, ok?

Whats there to hear? I never argued against any of that. But here's something interesting

Otto Porter has more aptitude than DeMar DeRozan in shooting the 3 pointer.
Otto Porter has more aptitude than DeMar DeRozan in shooting the 2 pointer.
Otto Porter has more aptitude than DeMar DeRozan in defensive rebounding.
Otto Porter has more aptitude than DeMar DeRozan in offensive rebounding.

DeRozan 4 all star appearances
Porter no all star appearances

Maybe it has something to do with Ottos career high in ISO POSS being 0.3.

Nothing controversial about it at all -- as long as you agree that there is nothing controversial in thinking that Miles Bridges "...has a much higher ceiling in the areas of the game" I mentioned above -- & "...that he has a clear path to reach it with more touches and usage...."

Let's read the explicit words from you, ok?

Only... Rui's FT% was 77%

Why don't you go check what Miles Bridges % was from the line. Then you can come in here & tell a lie about it.

Hey buddy what's with all this lie talk. Rui's career FT shooting is 80%. I haven't obfuscated anything. I also haven't mentioned anything about Bridges FT %, that was never my qualm it was his ability to get them.

What a clever, cutting irony. Thing is, though: I don't know how Rui will turn out, & neither do you.

Definitely hard to see how your bullshot would help him.

Thank you PIF I appreciate the compliment. I will note you're always saying "I don't know how things will turn out and neither do you". Of course but talking about the future is not off limits. It gives everyone a chance to flex their basketball prescience later on.

[payitforward]

True enough, Shoe -- I'm sorry for letting myself be frustrated by all this.

Hey, Bridges took a huge jump from his lousy 2d year to his really good 3d year. Rui may do the same -- as we all hope he does!

Peace!

[prime1time]

You can always tell which posters have an underlying disdain for Hachimura based off of their posts. Now the reasonable thing to post would be the Wizards should trade for Bridges. But that doesn’t prove the point or provide the debate that is desired which is that if you compare Rui to Bridges, some posters think he’s a better player.

Of course this is just a rehash of the previous debate, Rui vs Clarke with a twist. And just like
That debate ended, this one will end the same way. The Wizards are developing Rui into a 3rd option who is also a 2 way player. Bridges is developing/is an athletic 3 and D. The irony is that these two archetypes actually compliment each other.

If this was a genuine post, you’d try to figure out how we can get both players. But because you just wanted to debate that Bridges is better than Hachimura here we are.

It will be interesting to see how much the Hornets pay Bridges. With the leap he took this year, he’s going to command a large salary. Definitely a player that the Wizards should keep an eye on though.

[payitforward]

You can always tell which posters have an underlying disdain for Hachimura based off of their posts. Now the reasonable thing to post would be the Wizards should trade for Bridges...

Quite right - & that is exactly how it did start. W/ Ruzious suggesting we trade for Bridges.

...If this was a genuine post, you’d try to figure out how we can get both players. But because you just wanted to debate that Bridges is better than Hachimura here we are....

That's exactly backwards, prime. I am the one who has repeatedly said that there is no relationship between the players nor any reason to discuss them together. It was Shoe who felt he had to demonstrate that Rui is "better" than Bridges.

[Ruzious]

You can always tell which posters have an underlying disdain for Hachimura based off of their posts. Now the reasonable thing to post would be the Wizards should trade for Bridges. But that doesn’t prove the point or provide the debate that is desired which is that if you compare Rui to Bridges, some posters think he’s a better player.

Of course this is just a rehash of the previous debate, Rui vs Clarke with a twist. And just like
That debate ended, this one will end the same way. The Wizards are developing Rui into a 3rd option who is also a 2 way player. Bridges is developing/is an athletic 3 and D. The irony is that these two archetypes actually compliment each other.

If this was a genuine post, you’d try to figure out how we can get both players. But because you just wanted to debate that Bridges is better than Hachimura here we are.

It will be interesting to see how much the Hornets pay Bridges. With the leap he took this year, he’s going to command a large salary. Definitely a player that the Wizards should keep an eye on though.

I agree with your last paragraph. But the conversation started because of a trade I suggested. There was nothing sinister about comparing the players. Would they complement each other? Maybe, but it's far from a sure thing - particularly on the defensive end.

[Shoe]

Now that Scott Brooks is gone maybe a Westbrook trade becomes more plausible. What do people think of

Westbrook for Middleton

Pipe dream? Don't know how desperate the Bucks are.

Westbrook for Kuzma, KCP, Schroeder 1 yr prove it deal sign and trade (not sure it's possible to include other players in a SnT)

Schroeder
Beal
KCP
Rui
Gafford

[Silvie Lysandra]

Wizards trade:

Bradley Beal
Davis Bertans

Wizards get:

James Wiseman
Minnesota pick
Jordan Poole
2023 Lottery protected 1st
2025 Pick swap

Why for the Wizards? Obviously, the actual Wizards wouldn't do this, but Beal isn't good enough to the best player on a championship, or even deep playoff team. This puts a proper rebuild into motion by getting solid assets for Beal. Wiggins is way overpaid but he's become a solid player at a valuable wing position.

Why for GSW? With Curry proving that he's still MVP level (i personally think Steph *was* the MVP, or at least 1A to Jokic, but obviously you can't give MVP to the best player of a 44 win team unless he blows the competition out of the water, no matter how bad the team around him was), I'd assume the Warriors want to go win-now with Klay coming back. A backcourt of Curry and Beal with Klay is a dynamic big 3, and Bertans gives them more shooting when they go small.

Follow up with:

Westbrook for Ntilikina and a 2023 1st. Draft Keon Johnson (unless the pick is #4, then draft whichever one of Suggs/Green/Cade/Mobley fall. Use Bryant to trade up from 15 to 10 and draft Giddey. Ideally, you get a shooting veteran PG in there as well.

PG: Giddey/Ntilikina
SG: Poole/Johnson/Matthews
SF: Wiggins/Avidja/Bonga
PF: Hachimura/Avidja
C: Gafford/Wiseman (or vice versa)


This team won't win for a while, but it'll be fun to watch (unless Wiggins reverts to his Minny shotjacking habits)

[nate33]

Now that Scott Brooks is gone maybe a Westbrook trade becomes more plausible. What do people think of

Westbrook for Middleton

Pipe dream? Don't know how desperate the Bucks are.

Westbrook for Kuzma, KCP, Schroeder 1 yr prove it deal sign and trade (not sure it's possible to include other players in a SnT)

Schroeder
Beal
KCP
Rui
Gafford

Middleton is a really, really good. Westbrook is also a bad fit alongside Giannis. I just don't see that trade at all. Milwaukee's problem isn't personnel, it's coaching. Bud is just too inflexible. He wants to always run his own system, rather than adapt to exploit the opposition's weakness. They should have been attacking Harden all game. Harden can't move out there. And they should have sat PJ Tucker when it became apparent that he couldn't check Durant that game. Keeping Tucker on the floor allowed Brooklyn to park Harden on him defensively so that Harden didn't have to do anything.

I like the LA trade. I don't really care whether or not we get Schroder, but KCP and Kuzma would help us. I'd probably try and shop Bertans after that.

[payitforward]

Now that Scott Brooks is gone maybe a Westbrook trade becomes more plausible. What do people think of

Westbrook for Middleton....

What do people think? Well, this people thinks it's fantastic!

Make it happen, & I'll sign any statement you like about what a "great player" Rui is!

As to:

Westbrook for Kuzma, KCP, Schroeder 1 yr prove it deal sign and trade (not sure it's possible to include other players in a SnT)...

I don't like that one. If we trade Russ for multiple assets, then it's a lot better that they be young guys with lots of growth potential. Kuzma had his best year this year; hard to think there's much more development available for him, KCP is in the last phase of his career, & Schroeder just isn't good.

[NatP4]

Wonder if Indiana would take a flyer on Bryant in exchange for Jeremy Lamb? We could use a guy that just shot 40% from 3 on 6 attempts per 36.

We could go and sign any of the backup Cs in UFA like Holmes, Noel, Dieng, or even Jordan Bell.

[payitforward]

So... Nat -- I'm just wondering: before you suggest a possible trade, do you usually look into the current situation of the player you might want to trade for? How about his history?

Before suggesting the possibility of this particular trade, for example, did you take note of the fact that Lamb only played under 800 minutes this year? & under 1300 minutes the year before? Did you wonder why that was?

Plus, since you bring up his shooting 40% on 3pas in restricted minutes, did you also look at his year by year history shooting the 3? How about the fact that Lamb is 29 while Bryant is 23? Did you give any consideration to that?

Once you do go through these issues (& any others that might seem relevant), what do you think -- will you still want to make this swap?

Jeremy Lamb has had a productive 9-year career in the league. He's a better than average shooting guard. I've always liked him. If he was a UFA, & he was likely to come cheap, & I was confident that he'd fully recovered from the nagging knee injury that has kept him from logging any consistent minutes over the last 18 months, I might be interested in him as a back up 2.

Would I exchange a gifted 23-year-old guy like Bryant for Jeremy Lamb? No -- not in a million years.

[Ruzious]

So... Nat -- I'm just wondering: before you suggest a possible trade, do you usually look into the current situation of the player you might want to trade for? How about his history?

Before suggesting the possibility of this particular trade, for example, did you take note of the fact that Lamb only played under 800 minutes this year? & under 1300 minutes the year before? Did you wonder why that was?

To be fair, those minutes are more than Bryant played.