Draft Thread Part 4

[WuTang_CMB]

updated Ringer Mock 6.2
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Every mock has us picking keon Johnson and he's the one player I really don't like and don't get the hype.

I don't see how he gets his offensive game off in the nba, especially when he's gonna be avg height to below avg on switches.

Jalen Harris has a better offensive game than keon.

Jalen Harris is very good. People in the Raptors organization are very high on him yet he barely gets any play time. He better get a ton this year cause this guy is a stud

I'd say he needs another year in the G league considering this past year there was a mish mash.
I wouldn't be guaranteeing him any rotation minutes next season - we need a massive overhaul of our bench

[douggood]

updated Ringer Mock 6.2
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Every mock has us picking keon Johnson and he's the one player I really don't like and don't get the hype.

I don't see how he gets his offensive game off in the nba, especially when he's gonna be avg height to below avg on switches.

Jalen Harris has a better offensive game than keon.

well this mock has us picking jalen johnson not keon.

[tecumseh18]

Every mock has us picking keon Johnson and he's the one player I really don't like and don't get the hype.

I don't see how he gets his offensive game off in the nba, especially when he's gonna be avg height to below avg on switches.

Jalen Harris has a better offensive game than keon.

Jalen Harris is very good. People in the Raptors organization are very high on him yet he barely gets any play time. He better get a ton this year cause this guy is a stud

I'd say he needs another year in the G league considering this past year there was a mish mash.
I wouldn't be guaranteeing him any rotation minutes next season - we need a massive overhaul of our bench

100% disagree. I think our bench really earned trust from Nick this season, so he's not going to ride the starters so hard to begin the next season. How many guys did we have who hit 30 points?

Trent Jr., Boucher, Malachi, Harris, Watanabe, Watson, Gillespie and even Bembry are eight guys who are solid or have potential to be really good. I assume we'll bring in a big C with the MLE or cap space, so add Birch to the bench mob.

[OakleyDokely]

I can say with a great degree of certainty that the Raps won't draft Jalen Johnson. Since Bruno, they just don't take low motor guys who drift in and out of games who have a questionable work ethic.

[Indeed]

The idea is to draft the best talent.

Define best. What is the "best talent" or quality?
To me he is showing his feel for the game, but may not have high upside (physical / measurement). More of a safe pick to me. His standout skill is finishing.

Best is the most impactful player. Sometimes that can be from physical/measurement aspects, like LeBron, Zion, Giannis, Rudy Gobert. Other times it doesn't matter, like Curry, Harden, Jokic, Doncic, Young. There's no rule there that applies to all or even most. His standout skill was applied at a higher level than all the other prospects in the draft, at an age younger than most of the prospects in the draft. If that's safe to you, than that's actually a credit to him as you don't think he'll bust. A bust @7 isn't helpful to the Raptors at all.

Harden is not above average measurement (close to SF wingspan) with PG skill for a SG?
Doncic is not above average measurement for PG?

(Trae) Young and Curry are really the exception, but those are guards that rely more on shooting and ball handling. As for bigs, who are the successful one without good measurement?

Meanwhile, your statement does not seem to convince people. I still don't find a reason why we want to draft a Sabonis and play next to Siakam, where both need the ball and play at the same position (PnR roller, high post, low post, etc.).

[Indeed]

Jalen Harris is very good. People in the Raptors organization are very high on him yet he barely gets any play time. He better get a ton this year cause this guy is a stud

I'd say he needs another year in the G league considering this past year there was a mish mash.
I wouldn't be guaranteeing him any rotation minutes next season - we need a massive overhaul of our bench

100% disagree. I think our bench really earned trust from Nick this season, so he's not going to ride the starters so hard to begin the next season. How many guys did we have who hit 30 points?

Trent Jr., Boucher, Malachi, Harris, Watanabe, Watson, Gillespie and even Bembry are eight guys who are solid or have potential to be really good. I assume we'll bring in a big C with the MLE or cap space, so add Birch to the bench mob.

I wouldn't trust end of the season Stanley Johnson 30 points game. Boucher would provide defense and shooting, but none of our guards can create off the dribble and playmake for others.

Harris was good end of the season, but Dallas clearly showed they were avoiding injury and only put more effort at the end of the game with a possession difference. I think Harris needs another year in G-League and require to be dominated (like Flynn was playing in G-League).

[Indeed]

Revisiting this article from Sam Vecenie and Eric Koreen that dicusses selecting a few different bigs:

Vecenie: In general, I think the Raptors would be one of the best possible landing spots for Kai Jones from the prospect’s perspective. Their track record with guys like this is remarkable. He has an incredible amount of upside due to his combination of fluid, functional athleticism as well as explosiveness. More upside than the other two, in my view. But I don’t think you could put him on the floor next year and expect him to consistently make the kind of reads defensively that centers need to make to be high-level defenders. So if they want to get someone who could be ready sooner, Jones shouldn’t be the guy.

Between Garuba and Sengun, I would personally go for Sengun for the Raptors given the specific roster construction that they have. The players are basically polar opposites in that Garuba is a potential All-Defense team guy who is exceptional within a team construct, but still hasn’t figured out a truly consistent offensive role. Sengun, on the other hand, is the most polished offensive big in the class but has some real defensive concerns due to his mobility and lack of length combination. He has incredible hands, real touch around the basket, a knack for being in the right position, and has even flashed some real ability to put the ball on the deck and make reads. He is second in a really strong Turkish professional league in scoring, rebounding and blocks as a teenager. But the team that takes him is going to need to insulate him a bit defensively in ball-screen coverages, especially early. It’s hard to imagine a team more constructed to do that than the Raptors. Anunoby is going to start making All-Defense teams as soon as next season. Siakam is a high-level defender, and VanVleet fights his ass off through screens.

If any team is going to get the most out of Sengun, I think it would be Toronto. His ability to score inside would really be terrific for them, as he is one of the most productive prospects to enter the NBA out of Europe (non-Luka Doncic Division) in a while. If they stick at No. 7, I think he should be pretty high up on the board. If I was ranking the bigs for the Raps, I’d have it Sengun, then Jones, then Garuba.

https://theathletic.com/2602370/2021/05/23/nba-draft-2021-discussing-the-raptors-options-with-prospects-guru-sam-vecenie/

Basically, there are all plus defenders in Toronto who could withstand having a mostly offensive big.

What was interesting is that Kai Jones would really benefit from being in Toronto's system. Kai is signed with Klutch Sports like the other top picks. OG is one of Klutch's signature athletes. I could see Klutch pushing hard to get Kai into our system because by the end of his first contract he could be a very well-paid.

I have to disagree on us could withstand having a mostly offensive big.
The league has half of the possession in PnR, and I am not surprised what we are looking for is an agile C who can switch against guards. Particularly the way we lost to Boston in the previous season, where we have to play Siakam at C over Ibaka and Gasol.

I am not sure Kai Jones would be the best, and we have a need in playmaker, but I think we are looking at looking at a C who can switch and defend multiple position over an offensive C. Last year was Nnaji who we are interested in, this year Kai Jones, Isaiah Jackson and Garuba can fill that role of our system.

[Dalek]

Trey Murphy III is turning 21 in a couple days so people will be waiving the low ceiling flag against him, but I am seeing a late bloomer who has probably the best efficiency in the draft with obvious size, and emerging athleticism.

Slash line: 50 FG% / 43 3P% / 93 FT%

The 50/40/90 split is the magical number, but he did do it on a lower number of shots, only averaging 8 field goal attempts. That said he scored from everywhere like a savant:

Read on Twitter

On defense he had 1.2 stocks and being 6'9 and having an estimated 7'1 wingspan, he has amazing potential contesting shots.

This guy was a 2-star prospect and 6’4, 165lb guard in highschool, made it to Rice where he grew to 6'7, and finally hitting his final growth spurt this season. He really is a 6'9 guard with some real skills behind it. I think most just say 3 and D, but he can attack closeouts and has surprising moves:

Spoiler:

Perimeter shot creation:

Read on Twitter

Mid range step-through:

Read on Twitter

Attacking the rim:

Read on Twitter

This isn't just some standstill shooter. He can shoot off movement and has the makings of some really skillful mid-range. 77% conversion rate at the rim is as good as Kai Jones.

On defense he also shines being able to switch, and seems mobile enough to be a stopper and really uses his length to get deflections:

Spoiler:

Skip to 4:29 for his defensive highlights-

Watch on YouTube

Could this late bloomer be a lottery pick?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Harden is not above average measurement (close to SF wingspan) with PG skill for a SG?
Doncic is not above average measurement for PG?

Are they guarded by point guards where their height becomes a distinct advantage? No. So, it doesn't really matter. That's not what makes them "high upside," for the same reason that Kyle Anderson wasn't a high upside player. Their upside came from their skill, strength and IQ.

Meanwhile, your statement does not seem to convince people. I still don't find a reason why we want to draft a Sabonis and play next to Siakam, where both need the ball and play at the same position (PnR roller, high post, low post, etc.).

They would draft Sabonis because he's the best player available, regardless of who else is on the team. And then they'd note that 6% of Siakam's offense was as a PnR roller, 10% in the low post. That's not that much. They could probably work together pretty well. And they absolutely should draft someone who needs the ball @7. The idea is to find someone better than Siakam.

[WuTang_CMB]

Jalen Harris is very good. People in the Raptors organization are very high on him yet he barely gets any play time. He better get a ton this year cause this guy is a stud

I'd say he needs another year in the G league considering this past year there was a mish mash.
I wouldn't be guaranteeing him any rotation minutes next season - we need a massive overhaul of our bench

100% disagree. I think our bench really earned trust from Nick this season, so he's not going to ride the starters so hard to begin the next season. How many guys did we have who hit 30 points?

Trent Jr., Boucher, Malachi, Harris, Watanabe, Watson, Gillespie and even Bembry are eight guys who are solid or have potential to be really good. I assume we'll bring in a big C with the MLE or cap space, so add Birch to the bench mob.

It was at the tail end of the year. So what if he had 30. I dont think you can bank on him having rotation minutes next year from what I saw.

[WuTang_CMB]

I can say with a great degree of certainty that the Raps won't draft Jalen Johnson. Since Bruno, they just don't take low motor guys who drift in and out of games who have a questionable work ethic.

He lacks talent too

[WuTang_CMB]

updated Ringer Mock 6.2
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Every mock has us picking keon Johnson and he's the one player I really don't like and don't get the hype.

I don't see how he gets his offensive game off in the nba, especially when he's gonna be avg height to below avg on switches.

Jalen Harris has a better offensive game than keon.

well this mock has us picking jalen johnson not keon.

No. Keon at 7

[Rodrickle]

Sengun has around double the block and steal numbers of Sabonis(dating back to Gonzaga). I think he'll be better defensively (he looks to have quicker hands than Sabonis). Also Sabonis's first year he was horribly inefficient. I would project Sengun to be a better rookie, especially coming from a better league. I think he could back up a starting centre by mid year

Sent from my SM-G973W using RealGM mobile app

[Indeed]

Harden is not above average measurement (close to SF wingspan) with PG skill for a SG?
Doncic is not above average measurement for PG?

Are they guarded by point guards where their height becomes a distinct advantage? No. So, it doesn't really matter. That's not what makes them "high upside," for the same reason that Kyle Anderson wasn't a high upside player. Their upside came from their skill, strength and IQ.

Meanwhile, your statement does not seem to convince people. I still don't find a reason why we want to draft a Sabonis and play next to Siakam, where both need the ball and play at the same position (PnR roller, high post, low post, etc.).

They would draft Sabonis because he's the best player available, regardless of who else is on the team. And then they'd note that 6% of Siakam's offense was as a PnR roller, 10% in the low post. That's not that much. They could probably work together pretty well. And they absolutely should draft someone who needs the ball @7. The idea is to find someone better than Siakam.

They are not guarded by point guards mean they are impacting the defense, as their measurement and skill create matchup problems. Claiming it does not really matter (physical / measurement) is non sense. Maybe you prefer a 5'7 (below average in all measurement) PG with lots of skill and IQ think he can survive?

Meanwhile, Sabonis only works with Tunner (stretch 5), and yet, they are not an elite team with Sabonis, so how much he is impacting the win column and better than Siakam? Just because their stats is good, so he is good?

[ATLTimekeeper]

They are not guarded by point guards mean they are impacting the defense, as their measurement and skill create matchup problems. Claiming it does not really matter (physical / measurement) is non sense. Maybe you prefer a 5'7 (below average in all measurement) PG with lots of skill and IQ think he can survive?

You don't understand the argument if you've arrived at this. As I've said, some stars do rely on physical and measurement advantages (like Gobert, LeBron, Zion, Giannis). I gave you those examples.

Meanwhile, Sabonis only works with Tunner (stretch 5), and yet, they are not an elite team with Sabonis, so how much he is impacting the win column and better than Siakam? Just because their stats is good, so he is good?

I mean, Sabonis has won a decent amount in his young career. TBD? Why is this a criticism of Sabonis? He's quite good and easily the 7th best pick in most drafts.

[Raptorfan2012]

I can say with a great degree of certainty that the Raps won't draft Jalen Johnson. Since Bruno, they just don't take low motor guys who drift in and out of games who have a questionable work ethic.

Jalen Johnson is going to be the new TD where he will have a couple of great games and his fans will go 'told you so', but then he will also disappear in other games and his fans will stay quiet. Forget the whole 'quitting on Duke' thing; if you watch his Duke clips, the kid has poor body language whenever things don't go his way. JJ apparently drove Coach K crazy. He made a career out of hot HS mixtapes where he dunks on teenagers half his size.

[Indeed]

They are not guarded by point guards mean they are impacting the defense, as their measurement and skill create matchup problems. Claiming it does not really matter (physical / measurement) is non sense. Maybe you prefer a 5'7 (below average in all measurement) PG with lots of skill and IQ think he can survive?

You don't understand the argument if you've arrived at this. As I've said, some stars do rely on physical and measurement advantages (like Gobert, LeBron, Zion, Giannis). I gave you those examples.

Meanwhile, Sabonis only works with Tunner (stretch 5), and yet, they are not an elite team with Sabonis, so how much he is impacting the win column and better than Siakam? Just because their stats is good, so he is good?

I mean, Sabonis has won a decent amount in his young career. TBD? Why is this a criticism of Sabonis? He's quite good and easily the 7th best pick in most drafts.

Basically bigs rely on physical / measurement more, and there are not many bigs that can perform very well without being above average (you don't expect them to handle the ball, shooting the lights out). Sengun is below average for C in many category, and pretty much average for PF in those measurement (except for weight), so saying physical / measurement is not important, I have a lot of doubt in that for a big.

[Indeed]

Trey Murphy III is turning 21 in a couple days so people will be waiving the low ceiling flag against him, but I am seeing a late bloomer who has probably the best efficiency in the draft with obvious size, and emerging athleticism.

Slash line: 50 FG% / 43 3P% / 93 FT%

The 50/40/90 split is the magical number, but he did do it on a lower number of shots, only averaging 8 field goal attempts. That said he scored from everywhere like a savant:

Read on Twitter

On defense he had 1.2 stocks and being 6'9 and having an estimated 7'1 wingspan, he has amazing potential contesting shots.

This guy was a 2-star prospect and 6’4, 165lb guard in highschool, made it to Rice where he grew to 6'7, and finally hitting his final growth spurt this season. He really is a 6'9 guard with some real skills behind it. I think most just say 3 and D, but he can attack closeouts and has surprising moves:

Spoiler:

Perimeter shot creation:

Read on Twitter

Mid range step-through:

Read on Twitter

Attacking the rim:

Read on Twitter

This isn't just some standstill shooter. He can shoot off movement and has the makings of some really skillful mid-range. 77% conversion rate at the rim is as good as Kai Jones.

On defense he also shines being able to switch, and seems mobile enough to be a stopper and really uses his length to get deflections:

Spoiler:

Skip to 4:29 for his defensive highlights-

Watch on YouTube

Could this late bloomer be a lottery pick?

I don't see him as a lottery pick, because I am unsure he is reading the floor at NBA level. But he is probably gone by the time we draft him in the 2nd round.

I have Bleijenbergh ahead of him.

[tecumseh18]

I'd say he needs another year in the G league considering this past year there was a mish mash.
I wouldn't be guaranteeing him any rotation minutes next season - we need a massive overhaul of our bench

100% disagree. I think our bench really earned trust from Nick this season, so he's not going to ride the starters so hard to begin the next season. How many guys did we have who hit 30 points?

Trent Jr., Boucher, Malachi, Harris, Watanabe, Watson, Gillespie and even Bembry are eight guys who are solid or have potential to be really good. I assume we'll bring in a big C with the MLE or cap space, so add Birch to the bench mob.

It was at the tail end of the year. So what if he had 30. I dont think you can bank on him having rotation minutes next year from what I saw.

Harris has injury/Covid issues during the season, but looked damn good in the G-League and in several games at the end of the season against teams who were motivated to win.

You said the bench "needs a massive overhaul". Why do you believe that? With the holes at the starting 2 and 5, why should the prioritize worrying about the bench?

[WuTang_CMB]

100% disagree. I think our bench really earned trust from Nick this season, so he's not going to ride the starters so hard to begin the next season. How many guys did we have who hit 30 points?

Trent Jr., Boucher, Malachi, Harris, Watanabe, Watson, Gillespie and even Bembry are eight guys who are solid or have potential to be really good. I assume we'll bring in a big C with the MLE or cap space, so add Birch to the bench mob.

It was at the tail end of the year. So what if he had 30. I dont think you can bank on him having rotation minutes next year from what I saw.

Harris has injury/Covid issues during the season, but looked damn good in the G-League and in several games at the end of the season against teams who were motivated to win.

You said the bench "needs a massive overhaul". Why do you believe that? With the holes at the starting 2 and 5, why should the prioritize worrying about the bench?

Because we had significant drop off last season. We had no production. I never said we need to prioritize the bench over our SL...

We need a massive overhaul of the bench + improvement in the SL, with a definite upgrade at the 5 , plus I hope we can get a real 2 guard now through the draft ie. Suggs, Green, Cade etc.