Julius Randle makes ALL-NBA 2nd Team!

[GONYK]

Did trading Russell damage the Nets reputation? He made the all-star team and helped them get to the playoffs.

You want a glimpse of our future, go read the Pascal Siakam threads about his contract and how happy people were, he made the all-star team and 2nd team as well, now gauge the room on what people think of Siakam today on the new contract. His production has gone up significantly since he signed it, and people still think it's an bad deal after how he got exposed in the playoffs, and Julius will ask for more money and got exposed even worse.

The Nets traded D-Lo for Durant. This keeps getting glossed over.

It's not an analogous situation in the slightest unless you are saying there is an opportunity to trade Julius for a true franchise player.

If there's a chance to get a lottery pick for him, you're in theory trying to trade him for a franchise player. Realistically nobody is giving us a lottery pick for him, except for maybe the Kings.

I would be fine with trading him for far less, that contract is going to be a mistake and should be avoided.

Sure, you're totally entitled to that opinion.

But that is a different matter than whether or not trading Julius this offseason would hurt the perception of the organization around the league.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Did trading Russell damage the Nets reputation? He made the all-star team and helped them get to the playoffs.

You want a glimpse of our future, go read the Pascal Siakam threads about his contract and how happy people were, he made the all-star team and 2nd team as well, now gauge the room on what people think of Siakam today on the new contract. His production has gone up significantly since he signed it, and people still think it's an bad deal after how he got exposed in the playoffs, and Julius will ask for more money and got exposed even worse.

The Nets traded D-Lo for Durant. This keeps getting glossed over.

It's not an analogous situation in the slightest unless you are saying there is an opportunity to trade Julius for a true franchise player.

This. Of course we’d clearly trade Randle for the likes of a Kawhi coming here with the possibility of teaming up with Dame.. but trading Randle for a draft pick or some unknown commodity would soil the way this team is looked at by agents and players

People said this about the Warriors when they dumped Ellis for Bogut, that turned out fine, that was pretty lopsided trade looking at it from a purely stats standpoint too. Did what happened to IT stop the Celtics from resigning Brown and Tatum, or Horford, Hayward and Kemba from signing there?


Lets just do an exercise, Randle gets a 5 year $175-$200 million deal at the end of next season, that automatically becomes one of the worst contracts in the NBA, who is trading for it if he goes back to the player he was in 2019? His entire game right now depends on whether or not his shot can stay as consistent as it was on difficult mid-range jumpers, if he can't make those everything becomes difficult for him. Why roll the dice on something like that, even at his best he's still an inefficient player.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The Nets traded D-Lo for Durant. This keeps getting glossed over.

It's not an analogous situation in the slightest unless you are saying there is an opportunity to trade Julius for a true franchise player.

If there's a chance to get a lottery pick for him, you're in theory trying to trade him for a franchise player. Realistically nobody is giving us a lottery pick for him, except for maybe the Kings.

I would be fine with trading him for far less, that contract is going to be a mistake and should be avoided.

Sure, you're totally entitled to that opinion.

But that is a different matter than whether or not trading Julius this offseason would hurt the perception of the organization around the league.

This kind of thing is overstated.

Watch on YouTube

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1103639-warriors-bucks-trade-winners-and-losers-in-monta-ellis-andrew-bogut-deal

The Warriors were universally slammed for the trade of Ellis, fans booed the owner, trade grades called them the loser, nobody would ever sign there after what they did to Ellis a fan favorite. In the moment trading Randle would look bad, but we're here for the long run, right? That is all that should matter, and signing Randle to a long term deal will kill us in the long run.

[GONYK]

If there's a chance to get a lottery pick for him, you're in theory trying to trade him for a franchise player. Realistically nobody is giving us a lottery pick for him, except for maybe the Kings.

I would be fine with trading him for far less, that contract is going to be a mistake and should be avoided.

Sure, you're totally entitled to that opinion.

But that is a different matter than whether or not trading Julius this offseason would hurt the perception of the organization around the league.

This kind of thing is overstated.

Watch on YouTube

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1103639-warriors-bucks-trade-winners-and-losers-in-monta-ellis-andrew-bogut-deal

The Warriors were universally slammed for the trade of Ellis, fans booed the owner, trade grades called them the loser, nobody would ever sign there after what they did to Ellis a fan favorite.

This isn't the same at all.

The Warriors drafted their core. So really, nobody did sign there until they established themselves and rebuilt their reputation.

They also traded talent for talent. That's different that dumping Julius after this season simply because you don't want to pay him. Especially when the team has the baggage the Knicks do.

Who are you trading Julius for that can have the same impact?

[Gravy]

The Nets traded D-Lo for Durant. This keeps getting glossed over.

It's not an analogous situation in the slightest unless you are saying there is an opportunity to trade Julius for a true franchise player.

This. Of course we’d clearly trade Randle for the likes of a Kawhi coming here with the possibility of teaming up with Dame.. but trading Randle for a draft pick or some unknown commodity would soil the way this team is looked at by agents and players

People said this about the Warriors when they dumped Ellis for Bogut, that turned out fine, that was pretty lopsided trade looking at it from a purely stats standpoint too. Did what happened to IT stop the Celtics from resigning Brown and Tatum, or Horford, Hayward and Kemba from signing there?


Lets just do an exercise, Randle gets a 5 year $175-$200 million deal at the end of next season, that automatically becomes one of the worst contracts in the NBA, who is trading for it if he goes back to the player he was in 2019? His entire game right now depends on whether or not his shot can stay as consistent as it was on difficult mid-range jumpers, if he can't make those everything becomes difficult for him. Why roll the dice on something like that, even at his best he's still an inefficient player.

If Randle has back to back all-NBA seasons that means he's the real deal right?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Sure, you're totally entitled to that opinion.

But that is a different matter than whether or not trading Julius this offseason would hurt the perception of the organization around the league.

This kind of thing is overstated.

Watch on YouTube

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1103639-warriors-bucks-trade-winners-and-losers-in-monta-ellis-andrew-bogut-deal

The Warriors were universally slammed for the trade of Ellis, fans booed the owner, trade grades called them the loser, nobody would ever sign there after what they did to Ellis a fan favorite.

This isn't the same at all.

The Warriors drafted their core. So really, nobody did sign there until they established themselves and rebuilt their reputation.

They also traded talent for talent. That's different that dumping Julius after this season simply because you don't want to pay him. Especially when the team has the baggage the Knicks do.

Who are you trading Julius for that can have the same impact?

The point is that they traded a fan favorite and everyone wondered what they were doing, they got killed locally and nationally for doing it. They traded a 24 year old that just averaged 24ppg, for a center that averaged 11/8 and was coming off a serious injury.

I'd trade Julius for pretty much anything to avoid the contract, the impact he has in games will not outpace the impact that contract will have on us in the future. I'd be happy getting back another 17-20ppg scorer and a young prospect for him, anyone expecting lottery picks and superstars for him is vastly overrating his value.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

This. Of course we’d clearly trade Randle for the likes of a Kawhi coming here with the possibility of teaming up with Dame.. but trading Randle for a draft pick or some unknown commodity would soil the way this team is looked at by agents and players

People said this about the Warriors when they dumped Ellis for Bogut, that turned out fine, that was pretty lopsided trade looking at it from a purely stats standpoint too. Did what happened to IT stop the Celtics from resigning Brown and Tatum, or Horford, Hayward and Kemba from signing there?


Lets just do an exercise, Randle gets a 5 year $175-$200 million deal at the end of next season, that automatically becomes one of the worst contracts in the NBA, who is trading for it if he goes back to the player he was in 2019? His entire game right now depends on whether or not his shot can stay as consistent as it was on difficult mid-range jumpers, if he can't make those everything becomes difficult for him. Why roll the dice on something like that, even at his best he's still an inefficient player.

If Randle has back to back all-NBA seasons that means he's the real deal right?

And if he doesn't, then what? I hope you realize the writers are itching to give Zion an all-nba vote too, so if you wanna bet on it we can

[Gravy]

People said this about the Warriors when they dumped Ellis for Bogut, that turned out fine, that was pretty lopsided trade looking at it from a purely stats standpoint too. Did what happened to IT stop the Celtics from resigning Brown and Tatum, or Horford, Hayward and Kemba from signing there?


Lets just do an exercise, Randle gets a 5 year $175-$200 million deal at the end of next season, that automatically becomes one of the worst contracts in the NBA, who is trading for it if he goes back to the player he was in 2019? His entire game right now depends on whether or not his shot can stay as consistent as it was on difficult mid-range jumpers, if he can't make those everything becomes difficult for him. Why roll the dice on something like that, even at his best he's still an inefficient player.

If Randle has back to back all-NBA seasons that means he's the real deal right?

And if he doesn't, then what? I hope you realize the writers are itching to give Zion an all-nba vote too, so if you wanna bet on it we can

If he doesn't then we dont give him the supermax.

[GONYK]

This kind of thing is overstated.

Watch on YouTube

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1103639-warriors-bucks-trade-winners-and-losers-in-monta-ellis-andrew-bogut-deal

The Warriors were universally slammed for the trade of Ellis, fans booed the owner, trade grades called them the loser, nobody would ever sign there after what they did to Ellis a fan favorite.

This isn't the same at all.

The Warriors drafted their core. So really, nobody did sign there until they established themselves and rebuilt their reputation.

They also traded talent for talent. That's different that dumping Julius after this season simply because you don't want to pay him. Especially when the team has the baggage the Knicks do.

Who are you trading Julius for that can have the same impact?

The point is that they traded a fan favorite and everyone wondered what they were doing, they got killed locally and nationally for doing it. They traded a 24 year old that just averaged 24ppg, for a center that averaged 11/8 and was coming off a serious injury

.

It's not the fans that anyone cares about. It's other players and agents around the league.

They traded Ellis after 4 seasons in a row where they only won more than 30 games once. That's completely different than trading your best player after you were supposed to be the worst team in the league and you make it to the top half of your conference and said player makes the all-NBA team.

I'd trade Julius for pretty much anything to avoid the contract, the impact he has in games will not outpace the impact that contract will have on us in the future. I'd be happy getting back another 17-20ppg scorer and a young prospect for him, anyone expecting lottery picks and superstars for him is vastly overrating his value.

Once again, this is a legit discussion to be had. It's just different than the one about organizational perception around the league from players and agents.

Unless he's traded for an upgrade, the Knicks will look like they are lacking a plan, and they will have to prove themselves all over again.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

If Randle has back to back all-NBA seasons that means he's the real deal right?

And if he doesn't, then what? I hope you realize the writers are itching to give Zion an all-nba vote too, so if you wanna bet on it we can

If he doesn't then we dont give him the supermax.

But, what if he wants the supermax, then what? He can point out that he made all-star and all-nba this season.

I don't want him at the extension number, the supermax is nightmare fuel

[NoDopeOnSundays]

This isn't the same at all.

The Warriors drafted their core. So really, nobody did sign there until they established themselves and rebuilt their reputation.

They also traded talent for talent. That's different that dumping Julius after this season simply because you don't want to pay him. Especially when the team has the baggage the Knicks do.

Who are you trading Julius for that can have the same impact?

The point is that they traded a fan favorite and everyone wondered what they were doing, they got killed locally and nationally for doing it. They traded a 24 year old that just averaged 24ppg, for a center that averaged 11/8 and was coming off a serious injury

.

It's not the fans that anyone cares about. It's other players and agents around the league.

They traded Ellis after 4 seasons in a row where they only won more than 30 games once. That's completely different than trading your best player after you were supposed to be the worst team in the league and you make it to the top half of your conference and said player makes the all-NBA team.

I'd trade Julius for pretty much anything to avoid the contract, the impact he has in games will not outpace the impact that contract will have on us in the future. I'd be happy getting back another 17-20ppg scorer and a young prospect for him, anyone expecting lottery picks and superstars for him is vastly overrating his value.

Once again, this is a legit discussion to be had. It's just different than the one about organizational perception around the league from players and agents.

Unless he's traded for an upgrade, the Knicks will look like they are lacking a plan, and they will have to prove themselves all over again.

A smart organization does things regardless of perception, the perception of that trade around the league was that it was terrible regardless of whether or not they were a losing team with him. Half the people here didn't want to trade Randle after the 2019-2020 season when we were a losing team, which is exactly what we should have done, now we're here in a position where he had a great regular season and statistically one of the worst playoff performances of the last 30 years.


The Bogut trade wasn't looked at as an upgrade for the Warriors which is my point, maybe we move him and initially it doesn't look like a great move, but in the long run we'll have saved ourselves the same way they did. He's not going to be worth the money he's gonna ask for, can we agree on that?

[GONYK]

The point is that they traded a fan favorite and everyone wondered what they were doing, they got killed locally and nationally for doing it. They traded a 24 year old that just averaged 24ppg, for a center that averaged 11/8 and was coming off a serious injury

.

It's not the fans that anyone cares about. It's other players and agents around the league.

They traded Ellis after 4 seasons in a row where they only won more than 30 games once. That's completely different than trading your best player after you were supposed to be the worst team in the league and you make it to the top half of your conference and said player makes the all-NBA team.

I'd trade Julius for pretty much anything to avoid the contract, the impact he has in games will not outpace the impact that contract will have on us in the future. I'd be happy getting back another 17-20ppg scorer and a young prospect for him, anyone expecting lottery picks and superstars for him is vastly overrating his value.

Once again, this is a legit discussion to be had. It's just different than the one about organizational perception around the league from players and agents.

Unless he's traded for an upgrade, the Knicks will look like they are lacking a plan, and they will have to prove themselves all over again.

A smart organization does things regardless of perception, the perception of that trade around the league was that it was terrible regardless of whether or not they were a losing team with him. Half the people here didn't want to trade Randle after the 2019-2020 season when we were a losing team, which is exactly what we should have done, now we're here in a position where he had a great regular season and statistically one of the worst playoff performances of the last 30 years.


The Bogut trade wasn't looked at as an upgrade for the Warriors which is my point, maybe we move him and initially it doesn't look like a great move, but in the long run we'll have saved ourselves the same way they did. He's not going to be worth the money he's gonna ask for, can we agree on that?

A smart organization works toward achieving their plan.

I think our plan is making upgrades and luring FA's or disgruntled stars.

Dumping Randle for pennies on the dollar is not in service of that plan. Especially since we don't have to do it this offseason.

[Adelheid]

And if he doesn't, then what? I hope you realize the writers are itching to give Zion an all-nba vote too, so if you wanna bet on it we can

If he doesn't then we dont give him the supermax.

But, what if he wants the supermax, then what? He can point out that he made all-star and all-nba this season.

I don't want him at the extension number, the supermax is nightmare fuel

The front office can avoid that by putting a better player alongside him

Doing so will reduce his stats and ppg, and there wont be a need to trade him right away and receive fanbase backlash

When nego time comes, he wont have upper hand because his stats wont look max-worthy.

[GONYK]

The only way that Randle gets a SuperMAX is if he finds another team willing to pay him the non-Bird SuperMAX in order to get the Knicks to pay up.

The only way he finds another team willing to pay him that is if he has another all-NBA season and performs in the playoffs.

If he does that, then he's probably worth it. If he doesn't, then the Knicks will negotiate him to where his market value is.

I don't see the urgency to move him now when we're getting his production at a discount.

[thebuzzardman]

This kind of thing is overstated.

Watch on YouTube

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1103639-warriors-bucks-trade-winners-and-losers-in-monta-ellis-andrew-bogut-deal

The Warriors were universally slammed for the trade of Ellis, fans booed the owner, trade grades called them the loser, nobody would ever sign there after what they did to Ellis a fan favorite.

This isn't the same at all.

The Warriors drafted their core. So really, nobody did sign there until they established themselves and rebuilt their reputation.

They also traded talent for talent. That's different that dumping Julius after this season simply because you don't want to pay him. Especially when the team has the baggage the Knicks do.

Who are you trading Julius for that can have the same impact?

The point is that they traded a fan favorite and everyone wondered what they were doing, they got killed locally and nationally for doing it. They traded a 24 year old that just averaged 24ppg, for a center that averaged 11/8 and was coming off a serious injury.

I'd trade Julius for pretty much anything to avoid the contract, the impact he has in games will not outpace the impact that contract will have on us in the future. I'd be happy getting back another 17-20ppg scorer and a young prospect for him, anyone expecting lottery picks and superstars for him is vastly overrating his value.

Not wanting to play a good player as a max player will forever more be known as "Doing The Porzingis"

[thebuzzardman]

The only way that Randle gets a SuperMAX is if he finds another team willing to pay him the non-Bird SuperMAX in order to get the Knicks to pay up.

The only way he finds another team willing to pay him that is if he has another all-NBA season and performs in the playoffs.

If he does that, then he's probably worth it. If he doesn't, then the Knicks will negotiate him to where his market value is.

I don't see the urgency to move him now when we're getting his production at a discount.

I know there's been a lot of talk about how the Knicks should sign Randle to an extension now instead of picking up that 19.1 million team option and THEN resigning him, but doesn't that effectively eliminate the ability to fit another top player next to Randle in what is albeit the narrow window of this offseason->next season's trade deadline?

Well, more that it takes away the ability to add another "good" player besides the one 30 million player next to Randle?

It would seem to make it a little more difficult at least.

Knicks are going to have 50 million in cap space, correct? Randle occupies 19 million of it, but would take up 30 of it with an extension, no?

Would leave 40 million for player(s) X and draft picks

I guess not that different from having 50 million and having to pay draft picks, though the draft picks I don't think will exceed 6 million per year

[Ghetto Gospel]

The only way that Randle gets a SuperMAX is if he finds another team willing to pay him the non-Bird SuperMAX in order to get the Knicks to pay up.

The only way he finds another team willing to pay him that is if he has another all-NBA season and performs in the playoffs.

If he does that, then he's probably worth it. If he doesn't, then the Knicks will negotiate him to where his market value is.

I don't see the urgency to move him now when we're getting his production at a discount.

I don't think it's that cut and dry.

Teams always view the value of players around the league differently and there's a realistic chance that Randle plays a pretty good though not an all-nba caliber season. This type of season could result in a team or two around the league viewing him as a max player, whilst the Knicks balk at that valuation. It's worth exploring the option of a trade if he turns down that extension, as it'd really suck to potentially lose a nice asset for nothing.

[cldbld]

There's a reason NY can't have nice things. Fans complain the Knicks never have good players. They have a second team all NBA player and the fans are mad and want to trade him for a top 5 pick.

We will never be happy until a 6'6 point guard averages 40 pts on 65% TS in a pick and roll offence and wins a chip his rookie year and then resigns for 20 dollars a year because he loves NYC so much.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

This this this thiiiiiiiiiissssssssssss.

[ENYK]

The Nets traded D-Lo for Durant. This keeps getting glossed over.

It's not an analogous situation in the slightest unless you are saying there is an opportunity to trade Julius for a true franchise player.

This. Of course we’d clearly trade Randle for the likes of a Kawhi coming here with the possibility of teaming up with Dame.. but trading Randle for a draft pick or some unknown commodity would soil the way this team is looked at by agents and players

People said this about the Warriors when they dumped Ellis for Bogut, that turned out fine, that was pretty lopsided trade looking at it from a purely stats standpoint too. Did what happened to IT stop the Celtics from resigning Brown and Tatum, or Horford, Hayward and Kemba from signing there?


Lets just do an exercise, Randle gets a 5 year $175-$200 million deal at the end of next season, that automatically becomes one of the worst contracts in the NBA, who is trading for it if he goes back to the player he was in 2019? His entire game right now depends on whether or not his shot can stay as consistent as it was on difficult mid-range jumpers, if he can't make those everything becomes difficult for him. Why roll the dice on something like that, even at his best he's still an inefficient player.

Agree with this assessment 100%. At his best, Julius is not as good as Melo at making tough midrange jumpers. And we saw how far pinning the team's hopes and dreams to Melo went.

I have a feeling the three point shooting was a little flukish and Julius' playmaking is dependent on a super high usage rate, essentially running the offense through him... And we saw how far that style of play got us in the First Round.

I think Julius knows he probably peaked and will regress next season, so he takes the money this off-season. In the off chance he bets on himself, I think it would take a much better showing in next year's postseason for any FO to give him that supermax. Everyone knows he's a tier below actual NBA star.

[Marty McFly]

They traded Russell for KD and Kyrie. They didn't do it just for thrills or to go back to tanking.

cute response. because that's totally what was being suggested.

You, quite literally, suggested the Knicks follow what Brooklyn did...

The only reason they sent D'Lo out is because they got KD and Kyrie committed.

So what KD level player is coming here this offseason so we can ship Randle out?

GO implied that trading Randle meant they’d be doing it for thrills and tanking when literally no one has suggested that.