Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[payitforward]

Ruz -- I wasn't suggesting that Lamb lost minutes b/c of anything about his play.

He was injured almost 1.5 years ago, & he's had trouble coming back from the injury.

He wasn't getting on the court in May -- last month! -- because of that nagging injury.

In fact, like Bryant, Jeremy Lamb had a partial tear of his ACL. Problem is that for some reason he's not getting past it. Or hasn't yet.

[NatP4]

It would depend on whether or not Lamb needs another surgery or simply an off-season to rest.

Bryant is on the way out the door regardless. We don’t have the money to retain him this time next year. Who knows if we will even want to after the ACL injury and the emergence of Gafford.

One season of a two way wing player that provides shooting and can play the 2/3 is much more valuable to us than a defensively challenged backup C.

[payitforward]

Nat... look, any player should be available in a trade, Bryant included. Goes without saying: it all depends what the deal is.

The Wizards have two overall time-frames: 1. what we can get done, how much fun can we have, while Russ is on our payroll at an enormous cost, & 2) what happens after that.

If we could win a title within that first time-frame, then any move would be fine if it made us better in the short-term. But, it really isn't likely that we can do that -- we aren't going to win a title this coming season. Not the next year either.

For that reason, we should be sure that the veteran acquisitions made w/ the first of those time-frames in mind have no negative effect on the second time-frame.

& for that reason, we should not trade a highly-productive 23 year old player like Bryant for the expiring salary of a guy entering the last phase of his career.

As I mentioned, I *like* Jeremy Lamb. Just not acquired in this manner & at this cost.

[NatP4]

Nat... look, any player should be available in a trade, Bryant included. Goes without saying: it all depends what the deal is.

The Wizards have two overall time-frames: 1. what we can get done, how much fun can we have, while Russ is on our payroll at an enormous cost, & 2) what happens after that.

If we could win a title within that first time-frame, then any move would be fine if it made us better in the short-term. But, it really isn't likely that we can do that -- we aren't going to win a title this coming season. Not the next year either.

For that reason, we should be sure that the veteran acquisitions made w/ the first of those time-frames in mind have no negative effect on the second time-frame.

& for that reason, we should not trade a highly-productive 23 year old player like Bryant for the expiring salary of a guy entering the last phase of his career.

As I mentioned, I *like* Jeremy Lamb. Just not acquired in this manner & at this cost.

I’m not sure that this particular move has a negative effect on the 2nd time frame. Like I said, I think Bryant is gone at some point between now and the trade deadline.

In my mind, the best case scenario is that Bryant comes back healthy and spot starts/plays good minutes due to Gafford’s foul issues, and plays his way into some trade value. Maybe we could flip him for future/2nd time frame assets at the deadline which would definitely be better than a trade for Jeremy Lamb.

I should clarify, the proposed deal goes along with the current direction/lack thereof with the front office, which is to have some fun before Westbrook is gone.

I wonder if the wizards can work on an extension for Bryant right now at a discount that offers him a safety net coming back from injury?

[pcbothwel]

Nat... look, any player should be available in a trade, Bryant included. Goes without saying: it all depends what the deal is.

The Wizards have two overall time-frames: 1. what we can get done, how much fun can we have, while Russ is on our payroll at an enormous cost, & 2) what happens after that.

If we could win a title within that first time-frame, then any move would be fine if it made us better in the short-term. But, it really isn't likely that we can do that -- we aren't going to win a title this coming season. Not the next year either.

For that reason, we should be sure that the veteran acquisitions made w/ the first of those time-frames in mind have no negative effect on the second time-frame.

& for that reason, we should not trade a highly-productive 23 year old player like Bryant for the expiring salary of a guy entering the last phase of his career.

As I mentioned, I *like* Jeremy Lamb. Just not acquired in this manner & at this cost.

I’m not sure that this particular move has a negative effect on the 2nd time frame. Like I said, I think Bryant is gone at some point between now and the trade deadline.

In my mind, the best case scenario is that Bryant comes back healthy and spot starts/plays good minutes due to Gafford’s foul issues, and plays his way into some trade value. Maybe we could flip him for future/2nd time frame assets at the deadline which would definitely be better than a trade for Jeremy Lamb.

I should clarify, the proposed deal goes along with the current direction/lack thereof with the front office, which is to have some fun before Westbrook is gone.

I wonder if the wizards can work on an extension for Bryant right now at a discount that offers him a safety net coming back from injury?

Nat, I see no reason to think Bryant is, or should be, gone. Non Elite Centers just arent that high in demand, and certainly not ones with defensive deficiencies. Jonas signed for 15M/year at age 26 after putting up a per36 of 25 & 14 with a TS of 62% on high usage (28%)... Oh, and he was a much better defender than Bryant.

I dont see anyone giving more than the MLE for Bryant. I think he and Gafford will prove to be a really strong pair

[Ruzious]

Ruz -- I wasn't suggesting that Lamb lost minutes b/c of anything about his play.

He was injured almost 1.5 years ago, & he's had trouble coming back from the injury.

He wasn't getting on the court in May -- last month! -- because of that nagging injury.

In fact, like Bryant, Jeremy Lamb had a partial tear of his ACL. Problem is that for some reason he's not getting past it. Or hasn't yet.

He's had injuries other than the ACL - kinda like Bryant. Sorry if I'm not getting your point.

[doclinkin]

Hmm. Is there a Zion WIlliamson deal that makes sense for both teams?

[pcbothwel]

Hmm. Is there a Zion WIlliamson deal that makes sense for both teams?

No. Lol
Zion isnt going anywhere, at least not yet. But if he does, its going to be a HAUL.

[gambitx777]

Wizards trade:

Bradley Beal
Davis Bertans

Wizards get:

James Wiseman
Minnesota pick
Jordan Poole
2023 Lottery protected 1st
2025 Pick swap

Why for the Wizards? Obviously, the actual Wizards wouldn't do this, but Beal isn't good enough to the best player on a championship, or even deep playoff team. This puts a proper rebuild into motion by getting solid assets for Beal. Wiggins is way overpaid but he's become a solid player at a valuable wing position.

Why for GSW? With Curry proving that he's still MVP level (i personally think Steph *was* the MVP, or at least 1A to Jokic, but obviously you can't give MVP to the best player of a 44 win team unless he blows the competition out of the water, no matter how bad the team around him was), I'd assume the Warriors want to go win-now with Klay coming back. A backcourt of Curry and Beal with Klay is a dynamic big 3, and Bertans gives them more shooting when they go small.

Follow up with:

Westbrook for Ntilikina and a 2023 1st. Draft Keon Johnson (unless the pick is #4, then draft whichever one of Suggs/Green/Cade/Mobley fall. Use Bryant to trade up from 15 to 10 and draft Giddey. Ideally, you get a shooting veteran PG in there as well.

PG: Giddey/Ntilikina
SG: Poole/Johnson/Matthews
SF: Wiggins/Avidja/Bonga
PF: Hachimura/Avidja
C: Gafford/Wiseman (or vice versa)


This team won't win for a while, but it'll be fun to watch (unless Wiggins reverts to his Minny shotjacking habits)

This is the worst. Not only does the math not work on the mini trade but I don't think they can trade their 2023 and just wosman and a high pick and a one low pick is stlilly for beal and Bertans who still has a lot of value.

Nittilkina is a free agent and I wouldn't dip in to a hard cap just for him and 1 pick Westbrook is playing well and he's absolutely recouped value this year. Aweful give aways here imo


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[Silvie Lysandra]

Wizards trade:

Bradley Beal
Davis Bertans

Wizards get:

James Wiseman
Minnesota pick
Jordan Poole
2023 Lottery protected 1st
2025 Pick swap

Why for the Wizards? Obviously, the actual Wizards wouldn't do this, but Beal isn't good enough to the best player on a championship, or even deep playoff team. This puts a proper rebuild into motion by getting solid assets for Beal. Wiggins is way overpaid but he's become a solid player at a valuable wing position.

Why for GSW? With Curry proving that he's still MVP level (i personally think Steph *was* the MVP, or at least 1A to Jokic, but obviously you can't give MVP to the best player of a 44 win team unless he blows the competition out of the water, no matter how bad the team around him was), I'd assume the Warriors want to go win-now with Klay coming back. A backcourt of Curry and Beal with Klay is a dynamic big 3, and Bertans gives them more shooting when they go small.

Follow up with:

Westbrook for Ntilikina and a 2023 1st. Draft Keon Johnson (unless the pick is #4, then draft whichever one of Suggs/Green/Cade/Mobley fall. Use Bryant to trade up from 15 to 10 and draft Giddey. Ideally, you get a shooting veteran PG in there as well.

PG: Giddey/Ntilikina
SG: Poole/Johnson/Matthews
SF: Wiggins/Avidja/Bonga
PF: Hachimura/Avidja
C: Gafford/Wiseman (or vice versa)


This team won't win for a while, but it'll be fun to watch (unless Wiggins reverts to his Minny shotjacking habits)

This is the worst. Not only does the math not work on the mini trade but I don't think they can trade their 2023 and just wosman and a high pick and a one low pick is stlilly for beal and Bertans who still has a lot of value.

Nittilkina is a free agent and I wouldn't dip in to a hard cap just for him and 1 pick Westbrook is playing well and he's absolutely recouped value this year. Aweful give aways here imo


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First off, the GSW deal is supposed to send us Wiggins to make salaries match.

I'm sorry but this is kind of a Wiz homer take. Bertans "having a lot of value" is *definitely* a homer take.

Bertans is neutral to slightly positive value at BEST (i personally think he's leaning negative value). The thing is that a top 5 pick + last years top 2 pick + Poole (who's made a dramatic year 2 improvement and is still 21) is decent to good prima facie value for Beal. If anything, the Warriors could offer both firsts this year. The math should work in that case.

As for Westbrook, he's recouped value but he's kinda similar to Wiggins - good player but making about 10 million dollars too much and worse, honestly doesn't fit most teams. Basically if you're trading for Westbrook, you have to have a team that can support him eating up 30%+ usage. He also has *systemic* issues in playoff basketball. Basically its a straight salary dump, and getting Westbrook's insane usage off the team so that the rest of the team can develop.

[Frichuela]

Here is an unsexy trade proposal with Houston that would give us a solid backup guard and a 3&D SF plus better draft capital:

Wizards send Bryant + Hutchison + #15 for Augustin + House + #23 + #24

At #23 and #24 we could select a combo-guard to play alongside Augustin (Butler, Mann, Springer) and a 3 pt shooting big (Petrusev)

I could see Tommy doing something along those lines if he can convince Houston Bryant is fully recovered from the ACL. He is mentioned our need for more vet help, 3 pt shooting and wing defense. Houston may like the pairing of Wood and Bryant given that Olynik has finished his contract. The may also like someone at #15.

Our roster would look like this:

Westbrook/Augustin/Winston
Beal/#23/Matthews ($9M/3Y)
Advija/House
Hachimura/Bertans/Gill
Gafford/Len (vet min)/#24

[Shoe]

Do any cap experts know why
Lakers - Westbrook
Mavericks - KCP, Kuzma
Wizards - Porzingis

doesn't work for the 21-22 season? It checks out as a success on tradeNBA dot com. If Harrell declines his PO they would even be under the tax. My thread on the trade board was locked because of the brazen disregard for the cap.

[payitforward]

Here is an unsexy trade proposal with Houston that would give us a solid backup guard and a 3&D SF plus better draft capital:

Wizards send Bryant + Hutchison + #15 for Augustin + House + #23 + #24

At #23 and #24 we could select a combo-guard to play alongside Augustin (Butler, Mann, Springer) and a 3 pt shooting big (Petrusev)

I could see Tommy doing something along those lines if he can convince Houston Bryant is fully recovered from the ACL. He is mentioned our need for more vet help, 3 pt shooting and wing defense. Houston may like the pairing of Wood and Bryant given that Olynik has finished his contract. The may also like someone at #15.

Our roster would look like this:

Westbrook/Augustin/Winston
Beal/#23/Matthews ($9M/3Y)
Advija/House
Hachimura/Bertans/Gill
Gafford/Len (vet min)/#24

No, please.

Augustin is going into his 14th season; he's about done. House is a nice success story of an undrafted guy who makes it in the league for a few years & even has a couple of respectable seasons along the way. But, he's already gone downhill; he's not a get.

Thomas Bryant is actually a good NBA player who is still only 23 years old & has plenty of room to grow. Hutchison is a lot more speculative, but at least he's young. He had a good rookie season; he may still establish himself.

Since #15 won't likely get us #23 & #24 straight up, if that part of the deal was what we wanted, then we'd have to give something more. I can imagine trying Hutchison to that end. I.e. #15 plus Hutchison for #23 & #24. But, it doesn't seem likely Houston would go for it.

[NatP4]

Rui to the Spurs for #12.

#15 to OKC for #18&#35.

Buy #40 from NOP.

#12: Franz Wagner
#18: Usman Garuba
#35: Neemius Queta
#40: Joel Ayayi

Westbrook Neto Winston
Beal Mathews Ayayi
Avdija Wagner Bonga
Bertans Garuba Gill
Gafford Bryant Queta

[gambitx777]

Rui to the Spurs for #12.

#15 to OKC for #18&#35.

Buy #40 from NOP.

#12: Franz Wagner
#18: Usman Garuba
#35: Neemius Queta
#40: Joel Ayayi

Westbrook Neto Winston
Beal Mathews Ayayi
Avdija Wagner Bonga
Bertans Garuba Gill
Gafford Bryant Queta

I don't see a single player at 12 that's going to be instantly better than rui so I'ma say no to this

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[gambitx777]

Wizards trade:

Bradley Beal
Davis Bertans

Wizards get:

James Wiseman
Minnesota pick
Jordan Poole
2023 Lottery protected 1st
2025 Pick swap

Why for the Wizards? Obviously, the actual Wizards wouldn't do this, but Beal isn't good enough to the best player on a championship, or even deep playoff team. This puts a proper rebuild into motion by getting solid assets for Beal. Wiggins is way overpaid but he's become a solid player at a valuable wing position.

Why for GSW? With Curry proving that he's still MVP level (i personally think Steph *was* the MVP, or at least 1A to Jokic, but obviously you can't give MVP to the best player of a 44 win team unless he blows the competition out of the water, no matter how bad the team around him was), I'd assume the Warriors want to go win-now with Klay coming back. A backcourt of Curry and Beal with Klay is a dynamic big 3, and Bertans gives them more shooting when they go small.

Follow up with:

Westbrook for Ntilikina and a 2023 1st. Draft Keon Johnson (unless the pick is #4, then draft whichever one of Suggs/Green/Cade/Mobley fall. Use Bryant to trade up from 15 to 10 and draft Giddey. Ideally, you get a shooting veteran PG in there as well.

PG: Giddey/Ntilikina
SG: Poole/Johnson/Matthews
SF: Wiggins/Avidja/Bonga
PF: Hachimura/Avidja
C: Gafford/Wiseman (or vice versa)


This team won't win for a while, but it'll be fun to watch (unless Wiggins reverts to his Minny shotjacking habits)

This is the worst. Not only does the math not work on the mini trade but I don't think they can trade their 2023 and just wosman and a high pick and a one low pick is stlilly for beal and Bertans who still has a lot of value.

Nittilkina is a free agent and I wouldn't dip in to a hard cap just for him and 1 pick Westbrook is playing well and he's absolutely recouped value this year. Aweful give aways here imo


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First off, the GSW deal is supposed to send us Wiggins to make salaries match.

I'm sorry but this is kind of a Wiz homer take. Bertans "having a lot of value" is *definitely* a homer take.

Bertans is neutral to slightly positive value at BEST (i personally think he's leaning negative value). The thing is that a top 5 pick + last years top 2 pick + Poole (who's made a dramatic year 2 improvement and is still 21) is decent to good prima facie value for Beal. If anything, the Warriors could offer both firsts this year. The math should work in that case.

As for Westbrook, he's recouped value but he's kinda similar to Wiggins - good player but making about 10 million dollars too much and worse, honestly doesn't fit most teams. Basically if you're trading for Westbrook, you have to have a team that can support him eating up 30%+ usage. He also has *systemic* issues in playoff basketball. Basically its a straight salary dump, and getting Westbrook's insane usage off the team so that the rest of the team can develop.

I actually really like Wiggins , if we are keeping this beal Westbrook core together I'd like to go after him. Maybe package Bertans and Bryant and hutch together for him he's way over paid but he's a respectable player and a good 3-4 option to out best to rui.

That being said I think a health Bertans has value he has coivd and he got hurt. Mulligan season. He's not way over paid for what he does and he's a really good shooter when healthy.

I don't trade beal for that sorry I just don't. I think we need more draft compensation than that imo. Beal is too good and you need to max his value and trading him for Wiseman who hasn't proven he's worth the draft investment they gave him yet and one high pick and a probable low pick just doesn't cut the mustard for me and I'm only taking Wiggins if we keep beal so I just don't like it.

That being said GS has too many high salary guys they need to move Wiggins turning Wiggins into Bertans, Bryant and hutch is a good deal for them. They get an elite shooter, a good back up option for Wiseman on a good deal , and a filler guy in hitch cheap.

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[nate33]

Do any cap experts know why
Lakers - Westbrook
Mavericks - KCP, Kuzma
Wizards - Porzingis

doesn't work for the 21-22 season? It checks out as a success on tradeNBA dot com. If Harrell declines his PO they would even be under the tax. My thread on the trade board was locked because of the brazen disregard for the cap.

Westbrook's salary is more than 125% of KCP+Kuzma

[nate33]

Rui to the Spurs for #12.

#15 to OKC for #18&#35.

Buy #40 from NOP.

#12: Franz Wagner
#18: Usman Garuba
#35: Neemius Queta
#40: Joel Ayayi

Westbrook Neto Winston
Beal Mathews Ayayi
Avdija Wagner Bonga
Bertans Garuba Gill
Gafford Bryant Queta

No coach or GM wants to develop 4 rookies at the same time.

I know you love these guys, but everyone overvalues draft picks a bit. History suggest that 3 of those 4 guys will end up as bench players.

[Dat2U]

Nat... look, any player should be available in a trade, Bryant included. Goes without saying: it all depends what the deal is.

The Wizards have two overall time-frames: 1. what we can get done, how much fun can we have, while Russ is on our payroll at an enormous cost, & 2) what happens after that.

If we could win a title within that first time-frame, then any move would be fine if it made us better in the short-term. But, it really isn't likely that we can do that -- we aren't going to win a title this coming season. Not the next year either.

For that reason, we should be sure that the veteran acquisitions made w/ the first of those time-frames in mind have no negative effect on the second time-frame.

& for that reason, we should not trade a highly-productive 23 year old player like Bryant for the expiring salary of a guy entering the last phase of his career.

As I mentioned, I *like* Jeremy Lamb. Just not acquired in this manner & at this cost.

I’m not sure that this particular move has a negative effect on the 2nd time frame. Like I said, I think Bryant is gone at some point between now and the trade deadline.

In my mind, the best case scenario is that Bryant comes back healthy and spot starts/plays good minutes due to Gafford’s foul issues, and plays his way into some trade value. Maybe we could flip him for future/2nd time frame assets at the deadline which would definitely be better than a trade for Jeremy Lamb.

I should clarify, the proposed deal goes along with the current direction/lack thereof with the front office, which is to have some fun before Westbrook is gone.

I wonder if the wizards can work on an extension for Bryant right now at a discount that offers him a safety net coming back from injury?

Nat, I see no reason to think Bryant is, or should be, gone. Non Elite Centers just arent that high in demand, and certainly not ones with defensive deficiencies. Jonas signed for 15M/year at age 26 after putting up a per36 of 25 & 14 with a TS of 62% on high usage (28%)... Oh, and he was a much better defender than Bryant.

I dont see anyone giving more than the MLE for Bryant. I think he and Gafford will prove to be a really strong pair

I agree the demand for Bryant will be light. Even if he comes back better than ever. His ability to be re-signed shouldn't be a concern.

[9 and 20]

If Philly flames out tonight? How can we get Simmons without giving up Beal? Avdija/pick/Westbrook? Is that nuts? Westbrook would be pretty good with Embiid and Harris along with their crew of wing players.