[Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Thunder

[Odinn21]

Hello.

Link to the project thread.

Pick the top 5 individual single seasons in the Thunder franchise history.

As Oklahoma City Thunder from 2008-09 to today
As Seattle SuperSonics from 1967-68 to 2007-08

Things to follow;
- This project is franchise bound, not city bound. Quick example; Philadelphia Warriors from 1949-50 to 1961-62 is part of the Golden State Warriors franchise history and 1952 Arizin is eligible for the GS Warriors history.
- We'll follow continuity of the franchise. I.e. Seattle SuperSonics and Oklahoma City Thunder are the same franchise. We'll use BBRef as reference for this.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/
- ABA seasons are included.
- 2020-21 season is yet to be completed, so, it's not eligible for this project.
- One season per player, no duplicates within the franchise history. Quick example; Shaquille O'Neal can be voted for only once for the LA Lakers franchise history, and he can be voted for the Orlando Magic franchise history. They are separate occasions.

- Reg. season and postseason play, both are included in evaluations.
- Votes will be counted per player, not per version of player.
- An easy going point system of 10/7/5/3/1, the same as Retro PoY project, will be used. Number of higher placement votes will be the tiebreaker (if two players are tied at 27 points for the 1st place, the player with more 1st place votes will get it).
- Explanation is needed, even in short forms.
- We'll be going alphabetically with franchise nicknames. Linked to the voting threads as well.

Spoiler:

Philadelphia 76ers
Milwaukee Bucks
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Boston Celtics
Los Angeles Clippers
Memphis Grizzlies
Atlanta Hawks
Miami Heat
Charlotte Hornets
Utah Jazz
Sacramento Kings
New York Knicks
Los Angeles Lakers
Orlando Magic
Dallas Mavericks
Brooklyn Nets
Denver Nuggets
Indiana Pacers
New Orleans Pelicans
Detroit Pistons
Toronto Raptors
Houston Rockets
San Antonio Spurs
Phoenix Suns
Oklahoma City Thunder
Minnesota Timberwolves
Portland Trail Blazers
Golden State Warriors
Washington Wizards

Results on Google Sheet

- The time frame for each franchise is 2 days (10:00 EST).

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[Odinn21]

I’m yet to work out my entire list but I guess I’ll have Westbrook over Durant.
Also I’ve always been quite high on Gus Williams. Probably will consider him next to Payton. Payton’s shift from defense to offense makes it kind of hard for himself. His defensive and offensive peaks didn’t overlap. So, I feel like there’s a good case for Williams to be made.
Also PG, CP3, Sikma, Kemp and Allen. These are quite the names. My initial list is something like;
2017 Westbrook, 2014 Durant, 1998 Payton, 1982 Williams and 2005 Allen. But I should watch some extensive footage to be sure because there’s quite a stack after Durant and Westbrook.

[falcolombardi]

call me crazy but i honestly think 2016 westbrook has a case for #1, his reg season not as good as 2014 durant but a better playoffs while very arguably being a bit better through the year than 2016 durant in both parts (reg seasom and playoffs)

i wouldnt feel confident so i will research as carefully as a i can and se what people think before ( i dont want to be biased in westbrook favor as a okc fan)

[Dr Positivity]

1. Kevin Durant 2014 - MVP level season carrying the team during Westbrook injury. I think his 2016 playoff run is underrated by his stats but not as great in regular season.

2. Gary Payton 1998 - Impressive season after the Kemp trade. Seems like he gets better on offense but worse on defense from 96 to 00, 98 being somewhere in the middle.

3. Russell Westbrook 2017 - Gets over PG for injury reasons

4. Paul George 2019 - Injured in playoffs but kind of amazing regular season

5. Ray Allen 2005 - Allen in his prime doing more than just shooting

Couldn't fit the Williams/Johnson/Sikma core

[Dr Positivity]

call me crazy but i honestly think 2016 westbrook has a case for #1, his reg season not as good as 2014 durant but a better playoffs while very arguably being a bit better through the year than 2016 durant in both parts (reg seasom and playoffs)

i wouldnt feel confident so i will research as carefully as a i can and se what people think before ( i dont want to be biased in westbrook favor as a okc fan)

I've been rewatching 2016 playoff games recently and Durant is their most valuable player in Rd 2 and 3 in my opinion, Westbrook's advantage statistically comes down to the Mavs series which I don't care about that much.

[TaylorTRoom]

I was surprised, frankly, to see that Westbrook got three times as many MVP votes in 2016 as Durant did. It made me challenge my perceptions and memories.

[Dutchball97]

1. Kevin Durant, 2012/13 - I think KD"s 2013 season is a better all around season than his MVP season the year after. He was pretty much just as good in the 2013 regular season as in 2014 regular season but I find his 2013 play-offs performance more impressive overall. I'd have either season at #1 though.

2. Russell Westbrook, 2016/17 - His 2016 season might have been a bit more well rounded due to a deeper play-off run but his 2017 regular season was too impressive imo to pass up. It's a close one between him and KD though.

3. Gary Payton, 1997/98 - Not quite as impressive in the regular season as PG13 and not quite as explosive in the play-offs as Ray Allen and Gus Williams but Payton provides a very strong all around season.

4. Gus Williams, 1979/80 - The 80 and 82 seasons are hard to seperate so I went with the deeper play-off run as the sample size was bigger but the performance was similar. I think his 1980 regular season is a bit underrated overall with 11.6 WS and 5 VORP, overall I'm more impressed by Williams' regular season than with Allen's 05 season. The play-offs for the two are comparable, possibly even a slight edge to Allen, but Gus has a more complete season in my eyes.

5. Ray Allen, 2004/05 - Gus and Ray have very similar cases and I only have Gus ahead by a hair so it makes sense not to have anyone inbetween them. Someone I did seriously consider was Paul George. His regular season was good enough to be #3 on the list but it wasn't that much better than Payton, Williams and Allen's regular seasons that he could afford to have a bit of a stinker in the play-offs when all three of those guys had strong regular seasons and strong post-season runs.

[Jaivl]

Spoiler alert: I have Durant #1

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I'm having a real hard time deciding who to cut from the top 5...not sure I'll be able to cast a vote. But I'll say this: don't sleep on Kemp.

1995-96:

19.6ppg/11.4ppg/2.2apg/1.6bpg/1.2spg on +8.9% rTS with 2.8 BPM and .205 WS/48.

20.9ppg/10.4rpg/2.0bpg/1.5apg/1.2spg on even 0.9% rTS HIGHER than his RS number, with 4.8 BPM and .198 WS/48.

One of the top two - some might argue the best - players on a team that went to the Finals and took two games off the 72-10 Bulls.

Two-way player.

Could go with 1995 Kemp too, but 1996 was the Finals year.

[HeartBreakKid]

1) 2016 Russell Westbrook - Higher impact stats during the RS than Durant in the same year. Both guys struggled to score in the post season but Westbrook's playmaking still stayed consistent.

2) 2016 Kevin Durant - Had a shooting slump but this version he tries to play defense more than older ones (more so in the post season). Not his best season statistically, but perhaps his best as a player.

3) 1996 Gary Payton - Was probably a better defender this year than in 2000, and seems like he shot better. I think Williams and Paul are much closer to him than most would think. Not as high on Gary as I used to be, and I think the other guards who are not really seen as big time players probably could have done something similar on a team as talented as 96 (they kind of already did in 79 and 21).

4) 2020 Chris Paul - I think his decline from his 18 season seems a bit exaggerated. Pretty similar player, just on a team with less fire power. Boxscore underrates his APG more than usual because he's playing with two other PGs.

5) 1980 Gus Williams - Much better all time PG peak than most give credit for. His scoring is legit, and he was a clean handler. Boxscore is better than Paul's but he wasn't as good of a passer despite the boxscore, and his defense wasn't as good either. Pretty sure on a good team 2020 Paul scales better. I think he is pretty close to Payton.


I touched upon a bit on Ray Allen in the Bucks thread when I had Oscar Roberston over him, I think all time floor generals are better than Allen's raw efficient scoring ability. Also, Allen's defense was quite poor during this era if I can recall correctly.

Not a big fan of Shawn Kemp. Great defender, but his offense was really limited. I don't mind finishers not having high APG, it doesn't mean much in terms of their vision, but having really high turnovers is incredibly alarming. I'd consider Harden over Kemp.

Playoff P! - Same tier as Kemp. Actually have them next to each other on my rankings, just below him. Maybe George was better, not really sure. Again, his boxscore numbers overrate his offense (great defender though) - I think Williams and Paul are comfortably more reliable on the court.

[TaylorTRoom]

The Sonics were rarely great, but they were often very good and had really good players. For example, Detlef Schrempf, the man who was 30 years ahead of his time. In ‘95-‘96, he scored over 19 ppg and shot 51% on 3PA. Problem was- he was 6’10” and in that era, no one cared that he had a handle and could shoot! “Get back in the paint, son!” How big of a star would he be today? I guess context is everything.

[falcolombardi]

The Sonics were rarely great, but they were often very good and had really good players. For example, Detlef Schrempf, the man who was 30 years ahead of his time. In ‘95-‘96, he scored over 19 ppg and shot 51% on 3PA. Problem was- he was 6’10” and in that era, no one cared that he had a handle and could shoot! “Get back in the paint, son!” How big of a star would he be today? I guess context is everything.

didnt he shoot that in the shortened 3 point line years?

also beyond that the volume was not big enough to take percentages at face value

[Colbinii]

The Sonics were rarely great, but they were often very good and had really good players. For example, Detlef Schrempf, the man who was 30 years ahead of his time. In ‘95-‘96, he scored over 19 ppg and shot 51% on 3PA. Problem was- he was 6’10” and in that era, no one cared that he had a handle and could shoot! “Get back in the paint, son!” How big of a star would he be today? I guess context is everything.

didnt he shoot that in the shortened 3 point line years?

also beyond that the volume was not big enough to take percentages at face value

Correct on both fronts. The league had a shortened 3 point line and his volume isn't comparable to today.

Detlef was talented though and had a high BBIQ, meaning his game would have translated well to the modern day. I like to think of Detlef as similar to Turkoglu or an in-shape Diaw, and it isn't because they are both 6' 10" Europeans, but both could handle well, had excellent instincts and could shoot the 3.

[homecourtloss]

1. 2017 Westbrook in an neck and neck with several Durant seasons. Durant playoffs when a better player were underwhelming (2014, 2016)

2. 2013 Durant. Very good RS and PS.

3. 1997 Payton. Underrated offensive player

4. 2005 Allen. Very good regular season, great post season, playing a big role in taking a vastly superior Sours team to 6 games with game 6 entirely winnable

5. 2019 PG13. Two way impact.

[falcolombardi]

1. 2017 Westbrook in an neck and neck with several Durant seasons. Durant playoffs when a better player were underwhelming (2014, 2016)

2. 2013 Durant. Very good RS and PS.

3. 1997 Payton. Underrated offensive player

4. 2005 Allen.

5. 2019 PG13. Two way impact.

i think your vote only counts if every player has an argument explaining way he was picked

you should write one for allen so your vote is counted...i think

[70sFan]

1. 1979/80 John Johnson - nah, just kidding . I have to mention the craftiest forward I've ever seen though



1. 2013/14 Kevin Durant - I decided to go with his best RS, as I don't really think he had any significantly better postseason during Thunder career. You can also argue 2013 and 2016, but was he really that much better in postseason?

2. 2016/17 Russell Westbrook - unusual shooting season for Westbrook, combined with all-time high usage gives you very dominant carry-job. I don't think Westbrook was ever better than Durant, so he's clear 2nd choice here.

3. 1997/98 Garry Payton - couldn't decide between more agressive young Payton from 1996 and more refined offensive version from 2000, so I decided to go with in-between version. Excellent man defender, very solid playmaker and good scorer. He didn't have any big weaknesses.

4. 1979/80 Gus Williams - very good offensive player with resiliant game in postseason. Good shooter, excellent playmaker and capable off-ball player. Unlike most high scoring PGs, he wasn't terrible on defense either.

5. 2018/19 Paul George - I'm not George fan, but I have to give him credit for his RS performance. Excellent two-way player with career offensive season.

HM: 1971 Lenny Wilkens, 1976 Fred Brown (very underrated season), 1984 Jack Sikma, 1989 Dale Ellis, 1996 Shawn Kemp, 2005 Ray Allen, 2020 Chris Paul

Very strong competition, even after KD and Westbrook you have around 10 credible candidates. I don't love 2005 Allen choice nearly as much as some - he played in very offensive oriented environment and Seattle tanked their defense for offense. This team had amazing offense, but I don't think Allen was their true leader - it's more about collective effort. Allen also didn't play that well against Spurs, although it's understandable.

Wilkens and Paul are also good mentions, strong two-way veterans with very strong impact on young teams. Of course Paul is better, but I still think Lenny deserves a mention.

How would you rate 2005 Allen, 1989 Ellis and 1976 Brown by the way?

[HeartBreakKid]

For fun, my top 5 for the Sonics and Thunder counting them as separate franchises (they'll split in a few years anyway)

Supersonics

1) 1996 Gary Payton
2) 1980 Gus Williams
3) 2006 Ray Allen
4) 1972 Lenny Wilkens
5) 1996 Shawn Kemp


Longer sample size of seeing what Ray Allen can do in the post season (though he didn't make the playoffs the specific year I picked) makes me more comfortable with his playoff resilience than Dale Ellis who wasn't quite as consistent. Ray Allen seems a bit more versatile as well.

Wilkens over Kemp because I think Wilkens is just a next level floor general and was one of the best passers in the league. Only reason why he is not ranked higher is that we have seen so little of him in the post season it's hard to say how good he really was.

Kemp over Ellis because...I don't know - it's pretty close. I think there's a bit of drop off after these two.

Brown had a good season but don't think he's as good of a overall player as the other guards. Good scoring in his playoff series but small sample size - based on what I see he might have just been hot.Don't think DJ and Sikma are on these guys level either.



Thunder

1) 2016 Westbrook
2) 2016 Kevin Durant
3) 2020 Chris Paul
4) 2012 James Harden
5) 2019 Paul George


Top 5 I think is pretty much unanimous, just the order would be debated.

[Jaivl]

1) 2016 Kevin Durant
I think his best as a player, clearly not his best season. I'm still dumbfounded by the Dallas series.

2) 2016 Russell Westbrook
I'm open to the argument that Russ was the more important offensive player for the Thunder - in fact, it's pretty hard to argue otherwise. He's not close to the defender 16 KD is, though, and I don't think the was a better basketball player than Durant. And as much as Durant choked on the last GSW games, WB choked worse.

The following three are pretty much tied:

3) 1998 Gary Payton
Closer to his defensive peak than 2000, while playing basically at the same level as his superstar offensive years but with smaller volume (his ideal volume, I'd say).

4) 1980 Gus Williams
Isiah Thomas, but better. Or at least similar. We're still in the process of giving him the recognition he deserves.

5) 2019 Paul George
Took a huge hit in the playoffs, but still, top 5 ish player on the regular season and clearly better than Paul or Harden. Not really an argument otherwise other than "ha-ha Lillard", even In terms of on/off he leads Paul BY FAR, both in RS and PS.

Shout out to Ray Allen.

[HeartBreakKid]

5) 2019 Paul George
Took a huge hit in the playoffs, but still, top 5 ish player on the regular season and clearly better than Paul or Harden. Not really an argument otherwise other than "ha-ha Lillard", even In terms of on/off he leads Paul BY FAR, both in RS and PS.

Shout out to Ray Allen.

Which on/off stat is this by the way? Wouldn't Paul and Harden be affected by off/on due to their rotations? Paul was playing with SGA and Schroeder (career year) and Harden came off the bench.

[70sFan]

I know we have to judge them by how they played within the era, but Brown would benefit a lot from the three point line. He was one of the best shooters I've ever seen and every stat we have back it up.