Woj: Kemba to OKC, Horford to BOS

[MartinToVaught]

I'm not sure I like this trade for OKC as much as others do. Moses Brown is young and seems to have solid potential. Was it really worth giving him up just to swap bad contracts and add another draft pick to the 800 they already have? What are the odds that they draft a player better than him with what will likely be a late first-rounder?

The only way this trade makes any sense for OKC is if they do what they did with CP3, rehabilitate Kemba's value and then trade him for more assets after next season. But instead, it sounds like he'll be bought out.

[Texas Chuck]

yeah see you put all the blame on Drummond because you will remain a Cavs fan and don't want them to have to own up to all their mistakes in that situation. I don't have that fan tie so I can see they made a clear mistake in trading for him--a deal that never made any sense and was just doing Detroit an enormous favor. And then Cleveland didn't want him around either. And I'm not going to kill a veteran who is going to be a free agent who gets benched for a player in the team's plans wanting out.

Cleveland absolutely should have played Allen over him. And he absolutely shouldn't like that trying to get paid again. So shockingly enough both teams agreed it would be best if he was gone.

No victims here.

[nykballa2k4]

Imagining the slipperiest of slopes shouldn’t be something we legislate legal and collectively agreed upon standards by.

That's fine. But the problem of players being paid by a tank-team and playing for a contender hurts 80% of the league in what I argue is a spirit antithetical to fair competition.

One could easily call Thunder Process 2.0 and we all know how the NBA felt about Hinkie-business.

Most deals that any team makes that makes them better “hurts” the other teams in the league. It makes one team better, which in turns means probably more losses for other teams. If OKC has determined that acquiring the #16 pick was worth them taking on $30ish million in extra salary, that’s their prerogative. Their task is to make themselves the best team they can be long-term. Philly did the same in their Process. The NBA wasn’t worried about competitive balance. They were just worried about a large market team possibly throwing off TV ratings.

Nope.
That doesn't hurt the competitive balance of teams around the league. That is what makes it a competitive balance.
Lakers are not at fault for signing a player for nearly free who other teams would pay perhaps up to 15M for in a given season. A team waiving such a player is at fault for enabling that.

[MoneyTalks41890]

First trade we've had in months and you guys are talking about buyouts?

[LightTheBeam]

Surprised to see Moses Brown thrown in, but the value seems fair.

This was exactly my thought. Moses showed he can play this passed year, I hope he doesn't get buried in Boston although it feels like that will happen.

Celtics just solidified that center spot nicely.

[LightTheBeam]

What about this follow up:

OKC TRADES - Kemba Walker, 16, 18, 2023 DEN FRP
OKC RECEIVES - Steven Adams, 10

WHY? Save $$$, move up in draft, get an old friend.

HOU TRADES - Christian Wood
HOUR RECEIVES - Eric Bledsoe, 16, 18, 2023 DEN FRP

WHY? Cash in on Wood.

NO TRADES - Eric Bledsoe, Steven Adams, 10
NO RECEIVES - Kemba Walker, Christian Wood

WHY? Get two better roster fits and a potential long term running mate in Wood for Zion.

G - Kemba Walker
G - Lonzo Ball
F - Brandon Ingram
F - Zion Williamson
C - Christian Wood

Respectfully, if a deal like the Pelicans idea was available for Kemba, he wouldn't be headed to OKC. Bledsoe's practically expiring and Adams second year at $17M will be much easier than Horford's second year to move.

Kemba is likely finishing that contract, one way or another, with OKC.

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Watch Kemba ball out and stay healthy the entire year in OKC. Next year this time they will trade him to Houston for Wall and a 1st lol.

[pacers33granger]

I get it for Boston, but it's still a bad deal for them imo. And if a primary motivator here is to get a max slot next year, I dislike it even more. Putting your eggs into that basket rarely works out. And not that it has any bearing on the future, but Boston got 2 different all stars through free agency and both became major issues. I just don't see the getting a true star in free agency, though I get the allure.

There has to be some follow up moves here as the frontcourts now pretty crowded.

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[Homerclease]

People don’t realize how bad Kemba is now. It’s a miracle that Boston got out his deal so cheap. Horford is a better fit but all the rest of that stuff is secondary to Boston shedding that albatross contract. Win/win here for both teams

[jbk1234]

yeah see you put all the blame on Drummond because you will remain a Cavs fan and don't want them to have to own up to all their mistakes in that situation. I don't have that fan tie so I can see they made a clear mistake in trading for him--a deal that never made any sense and was just doing Detroit an enormous favor. And then Cleveland didn't want him around either. And I'm not going to kill a veteran who is going to be a free agent who gets benched for a player in the team's plans wanting out.

Cleveland absolutely should have played Allen over him. And he absolutely shouldn't like that trying to get paid again. So shockingly enough both teams agreed it would be best if he was gone.

No victims here.

Setting aside the fact that I'm not just talking about Drummond and you're ducking the entire issue of this becoming a trend, or even norm, I think that if you exercise a $30M option, the very least you owe the team, and the fans, is to play hard in whatever role you're being asked to fulfill. It's $30M.

It's injurious to the players' relationship to the fanbase as a whole when that much money isn't enough for a guy to play hard in the last year of his deal. It doesn't really matter whether you, personally, liked the trade or not. Just like it doesn't really matter whether the Hornets giving Batum a P.O. was smart. The player took the money, and if playing hard isn't the minimal expectation, then we just see this very differently.

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[the_process]

What about this follow up:

OKC TRADES - Kemba Walker, 16, 18, 2023 DEN FRP
OKC RECEIVES - Steven Adams, 10

WHY? Save $$$, move up in draft, get an old friend.

HOU TRADES - Christian Wood
HOUR RECEIVES - Eric Bledsoe, 16, 18, 2023 DEN FRP

WHY? Cash in on Wood.

NO TRADES - Eric Bledsoe, Steven Adams, 10
NO RECEIVES - Kemba Walker, Christian Wood

WHY? Get two better roster fits and a potential long term running mate in Wood for Zion.

G - Kemba Walker
G - Lonzo Ball
F - Brandon Ingram
F - Zion Williamson
C - Christian Wood

Respectfully, if a deal like the Pelicans idea was available for Kemba, he wouldn't be headed to OKC. Bledsoe's practically expiring and Adams second year at $17M will be much easier than Horford's second year to move.

Kemba is likely finishing that contract, one way or another, with OKC.

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Watch Kemba ball out and stay healthy the entire year in OKC. Next year this time they will trade him to Houston for Wall and a 1st lol.

I'd bet money on, if not that exact trade, something very similar happening next summer.

[MartinToVaught]

yeah see you put all the blame on Drummond because you will remain a Cavs fan and don't want them to have to own up to all their mistakes in that situation. I don't have that fan tie so I can see they made a clear mistake in trading for him--a deal that never made any sense and was just doing Detroit an enormous favor. And then Cleveland didn't want him around either. And I'm not going to kill a veteran who is going to be a free agent who gets benched for a player in the team's plans wanting out.

Cleveland absolutely should have played Allen over him. And he absolutely shouldn't like that trying to get paid again. So shockingly enough both teams agreed it would be best if he was gone.

No victims here.

I don't necessarily agree that the Cavs deserve a ton of blame here. They were already in rebuild mode and decided to kick the tires on Drummond because they didn't have much to lose anyway. The Pistons were a dysfunctional, poorly-run team while Drummond was there, and Drummond looks good on paper, so there were always going to be other teams thinking they can "fix him."

Also, let's not forget that the Cavs acquired Drummond last season, not this season. They didn't have a crystal ball to know that they'd be getting Allen a few months later. He fell into their laps unexpectedly and it changed things for both Drummond and Cleveland. It is what it is.

The team that actually deserves blame here is the Pistons for giving Drummond such a bad contract in the first place. Four seasons into his career, they should have already known from seeing him play every game that he was a glorified stat-padder who would never be worth $130 million.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Respectfully, if a deal like the Pelicans idea was available for Kemba, he wouldn't be headed to OKC. Bledsoe's practically expiring and Adams second year at $17M will be much easier than Horford's second year to move.

Kemba is likely finishing that contract, one way or another, with OKC.

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Watch Kemba ball out and stay healthy the entire year in OKC. Next year this time they will trade him to Houston for Wall and a 1st lol.

I'd bet money on, if not that exact trade, something very similar happening next summer.

I actually like that fit better for OKC. Wall/SGA even short term is solid.

[jredsaz]

Because the deal happens now, the trade kicker is void, as he’s already at his maximum salary.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Isn't this kind of more of the same? I mean damn, screwed Kemba out of $3.2 million on top of trading him to one of the worst teams in the NBA. I get Kemba was ready to move on but he had been getting shopped baisically since he joined the team. Just dont think this reflects well on the Celts like some of their other transactions, fair or not.

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I mean, reports went public that he wanted out. Dont think he can be upset that he got what he wanted.

Sure, but that was after he was being shopped for the last year and a half. Im guessing when he agreed to leave Charlotte for Boston he wasn't thinking they would look to bail on him that quickly. Think it feeds into the IT narrative that they don't take care of their players fair or not. Whether or not Stevens could have done anything to repair that reputation with this move is questionable but its a legacy Ainge left that needs to be changed.

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[MoneyTalks41890]

Without fail, now Kemba is the worst player in the association since he no longer plays for Boston

[Resistance]

Imagining the slipperiest of slopes shouldn’t be something we legislate legal and collectively agreed upon standards by.

That's fine. But the problem of players being paid by a tank-team and playing for a contender hurts 80% of the league in what I argue is a spirit antithetical to fair competition.

One could easily call Thunder Process 2.0 and we all know how the NBA felt about Hinkie-business.

Most deals that any team makes that makes them better “hurts” the other teams in the league. It makes one team better, which in turns means probably more losses for other teams. If OKC has determined that acquiring the #16 pick was worth them taking on $30ish million in extra salary, that’s their prerogative. Their task is to make themselves the best team they can be long-term. Philly did the same in their Process. The NBA wasn’t worried about competitive balance. They were just worried about a large market team possibly throwing off TV ratings.

Philadelphia tanking gave the Lakers some cover while they were tanking in some of that same timeframe. If the Lakers wouldn't have had that cover, then the optics would have been worse for them.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Isn't this kind of more of the same? I mean damn, screwed Kemba out of $3.2 million on top of trading him to one of the worst teams in the NBA. I get Kemba was ready to move on but he had been getting shopped baisically since he joined the team. Just dont think this reflects well on the Celts like some of their other transactions, fair or not.

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I mean, reports went public that he wanted out. Dont think he can be upset that he got what he wanted.

Sure, but that was after he was being shopped for the last year and a half. Im guessing when he agreed to leave Charlotte for Boston he wasn't thinking they would look to bail on him that quickly. Think it feeds into the IT narrative that they don't take care of their players fair or not. Whether or not Stevens could have done anything to repair that reputation with this move is questionable but its a legacy Ainge left that needs to be changed.

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They absolutely have a reputation issue, you could post search me and see i say this non-stop. But Kemba clearly decided to leak that he wanted out a week ago so he got it. It kinda is what it is.

The flip side is they also went and acquired a player who clearly wanted to be there, FWIW. I dont think either matters in the long run as the damage done by Ainge is there and will take years to unwind.

[pacers33granger]

Without fail, now Kemba is the worst player in the association since he no longer plays for Boston

And Moses Brown is a legit prospect with mid first value.

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[jbk1234]

Without fail, now Kemba is the worst player in the association since he no longer plays for Boston

I think he's the hardest to trade due to his knees and many of us were saying that before Boston traded him.

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[Texas Chuck]

Without fail, now Kemba is the worst player in the association since he no longer plays for Boston

I think he's the hardest to trade due to his knees and many of us were saying that before Boston traded him.

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I mean he literally can't be the hardest to trade because he is the most recent to be traded....

[shrink]

I agree with TC’s framing here. These are two separate transactions and should be seen as such.

Transaction #1 is between the player (Kemba) and their current team (OKC). If the player and team can come to a mutually beneficial arrangement where the player gives back some money and gets to hit free agency early as a result, then they can execute it. Detroit benefitted more from saving $15M than keeping Blake on the roster, so they gave him a buyout. It wasn’t an act of charity.

Transaction #2 is wherever the player chooses to sign in FA. If Kemba would rather play for the Lakers for the TPMLE than the Knicks for $20M, that’s his right and I’m not sure how you “fix” that without fundamentally breaking the free movement of players.

Other than some minor fixes around the edges (maybe you limit in-season buyouts to players in the final year of their contract?) I don’t see how you solve the “problem” of players being willing to take less to play for a better team without radically changing the way the NBA offseason is conducted.

I understand your point, but in real life, these aren’t two separate transactions. The player’s agent has already made the phone calls, and his player decides whether to negotiate a buy out knowing how much and where the next offers will be. The second transaction affects the player’s decision on the first.

The NBA head office has it’s overriding provisions for two, legal transactions to be overruled, and it’s when they block a deal for circumvention. To me, this is the loophole here for in-season buy outs. It may help the individual teams, but unless the NBA wants to start the impossible task of rewriting it’s parity rules to not be based on players’ salaries, but rather their impact, the current system is unfair to most teams in the league. Any time a player wants to sacrifice money to give a team a talent boost - that’s unfair. But in the off-season, at least they have the deterrent of losing a season’s worth of higher salary. In-season buyouts don’t even do that - they get paid market value for the majority of the season by the first team, and then only take a small nick to play for less than market.

Playing for less than your worth is the door that David West used (and thanks for reminding me of his name - I’ve been trying to remember it for a month!). And we are seeing right now that the playoffs have been impacted by Blake Griffin, who’s production has been worth far more than his vet min contract. The loophole remains for an even better player, who may have already made his fortune, to completely unbalance a championship. I think before that happens, to help maintain league parity, this loophole needs to be closed.