2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Discussion Thread

[Basileus777]

I've been considering Nate McMillan for my ballot for a while now. Anyone else?

Doc Rivers lol

[Doctor MJ]

I've been considering Nate McMillan for my ballot for a while now. Anyone else?

Definitely in consideration. Monty & Quinn continue to be my top candidates though.

[70sFan]

Utah can lose this game despite hot shooting because they play horrible defense.

[Colbinii]

I've been considering Nate McMillan for my ballot for a while now. Anyone else?

Doc Rivers lol

Mike Budenholzer

[Colbinii]

I'm considering Monty, Quinn, McMillan and Nash.

[Texas Chuck]

I no longer have anyone but Monty under consideration. Maybe Snyder could change my mind if those teams meet in the WCF and its clear he outcoached Williams to swing the series. Maybe Nate too again if he gets the Hawks to the Finals and outcoaches Monty.

But Williams had to fix a long-time losing culture, get his "star" guard to accept this new demanding star guard and accept being seen as 2nd fiddle by many. He got his talented young 1st overall draft pick to understand the team wins when you give us everything on defense and understand your offensive role is going to decline. He figured out how to unlock everything Mikal does well offensively so his elite defense can stay on the court and he pieced together a bench out of some guys whose careers were on the rocks.

Nate faced some similar challenges in shaping a roster but just to a lessor degree all the way around. Quin has an incredibly smart, veteran team. His coaching work was mostly done in years past. Now its just maintaining it. Thibs is Thibs. This is what he does. Playoffs showed us though that he can't work miracles when that outmatched talent wise. Not a serious candidate for me.

[Colbinii]

I no longer have anyone but Monty under consideration. Maybe Snyder could change my mind if those teams meet in the WCF and its clear he outcoached Williams to swing the series. Maybe Nate too again if he gets the Hawks to the Finals and outcoaches Monty.

But Williams had to fix a long-time losing culture, get his "star" guard to accept this new demanding star guard and accept being seen as 2nd fiddle by many. He got his talented young 1st overall draft pick to understand the team wins when you give us everything on defense and understand your offensive role is going to decline. He figured out how to unlock everything Mikal does well offensively so his elite defense can stay on the court and he pieced together a bench out of some guys whose careers were on the rocks.

Nate faced some similar challenges in shaping a roster but just to a lessor degree all the way around. Quin has an incredibly smart, veteran team. His coaching work was mostly done in years past. Now its just maintaining it. Thibs is Thibs. This is what he does. Playoffs showed us though that he can't work miracles when that outmatched talent wise. Not a serious candidate for me.

How did Nate do a lesser job?

He turned a team around mid-season, Monty has been doing his work for multiple seasons and has more top-end talent to work with.

[Texas Chuck]

How did Nate do a lesser job?

He turned a team around mid-season, Monty has been doing his work for multiple seasons and has more top-end talent to work with.

Had head job not all year. Don't believe at all he has much less top end talent. Paul is the best player, but Trae is right there. Bogdan not much worse than Booker. Capela better than Ayton. Didn't have a decade of misery baked into the culture of the team to overcome. Team didn't finish as well in the easier conference, etc...

Nate's done a great job. But Williams done a better one imo. Especially since he's had to manage Booker and Nate is able to just let his young guy do whatever he wants. One of the hardest things a coach has to do is convince the guy who has been the man that you being the man hasn't worked and now we have this guy who is going to make us a lot better but you have to sacrifice and you have to hear how he's the reason we are winning and you have to keep him engaged and committed.

Not easy, especially for a guy dating a Jenner, who was thrilled to score 70 and celebrate it when his team sucked and got drilled, who felt like he was hot stuff coming off the bubble. With many coaches that goes wrong. I mean you hear the narratives around Paul on this board. They are exaggerated but not completely baseless. For Williams to get Booker and Ayton for that matter to buy in was huge. Nate didn't have anything like that. The pecking order in Atlanta more clear. The vets he brought in weren't brought into challenge his young guys. Heck Collins never even faced a challenge from Gallo--was just given the job outright.

[Colbinii]

How did Nate do a lesser job?

He turned a team around mid-season, Monty has been doing his work for multiple seasons and has more top-end talent to work with.

Had head job not all year. Don't believe at all he has much less top end talent. Paul is the best player, but Trae is right there. Bogdan not much worse than Booker. Capela better than Ayton. Didn't have a decade of misery baked into the culture of the team to overcome. Team didn't finish as well in the easier conference, etc...

Of course the team didn't finish as well, McMillan took over when the team was 14-20. The team went 27-11 under McMillan, 51-win pace. Guess how many games the Suns won? 51.

Nate's done a great job. But Williams done a better one imo. Especially since he's had to manage Booker and Nate is able to just let his young guy do whatever he wants.

This doesn't make sense. Nate let's Trae do what he is good at, not "whatever he wants". Although one could make the argument that Trae Young doing "whatever he wants" is playing optimized, modern day basketball at the highest level.

One of the hardest things a coach has to do is convince the guy who has been the man that you being the man hasn't worked and now we have this guy who is going to make us a lot better but you have to sacrifice and you have to hear how he's the reason we are winning and you have to keep him engaged and committed.

I'm sure Booker is just fine with doing what he does best as long as it translates into winning.

Not easy, especially for a guy dating a Jenner, who was thrilled to score 70 and celebrate it when his team sucked and got drilled, who felt like he was hot stuff coming off the bubble. With many coaches that goes wrong. I mean you hear the narratives around Paul on this board. They are exaggerated but not completely baseless. For Williams to get Booker and Ayton for that matter to buy in was huge. Nate didn't have anything like that. The pecking order in Atlanta more clear. The vets he brought in weren't brought into challenge his young guys. Heck Collins never even faced a challenge from Gallo--was just given the job outright.

Gallinari was injured for 21 games and we should be crediting Gallo for coming in and taking a back seat and finding his role on the team, not using it as some sort of comparison between Collins and Booker.

[Texas Chuck]

Colbini, you should vote for Nate. Compelling case but I'm sticking with Monty. You can cancel me out though.

[Colbinii]

Colbini, you should vote for Nate. Compelling case but I'm sticking with Monty. You can cancel me out though.

All good.

I tend to credit Chris Paul for more of the team improvement than Williams, though I am still impressed by Williams.

[Doctor MJ]

Colbini, you should vote for Nate. Compelling case but I'm sticking with Monty. You can cancel me out though.

All good.

I tend to credit Chris Paul for more of the team improvement than Williams, though I am still impressed by Williams.

And I tend to feel a need to remind people that the Suns looked incredible in the Bubble and that if they hadn't, Paul likely goes somewhere else.

The culture was a losing culture. Monty is the one who changed that. Add on top of that that all his young players have been developing nicely and the team just seems to be as strategically sound as any, and I'm very impressed.

Not looking to bash Nate, and I'll say that depending on what happens I may end up voting for Nate, but I'm really floored by what Monty's accomplished. This was a franchise that had wasted enough of Booker's years that it was plausible he'd force his way out soon. What a turnaround!

[Krodis]

Hard to tell how much of the Hawks turnaround is on Nate, and how much of it is just that Lloyd Pierce was a disaster.

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[Colbinii]

Hard to tell how much of the Hawks turnaround is on Nate, and how much of it is just that Lloyd Pierce was a disaster.

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Hard to tell how much of the Suns turnaround is on Monty, and how much better of it is just the greatness that Chris Paul exhumes on every franchise he joins.

[Colbinii]

Colbini, you should vote for Nate. Compelling case but I'm sticking with Monty. You can cancel me out though.

All good.

I tend to credit Chris Paul for more of the team improvement than Williams, though I am still impressed by Williams.

And I tend to feel a need to remind people that the Suns looked incredible in the Bubble and that if they hadn't, Paul likely goes somewhere else.

The culture was a losing culture. Monty is the one who changed that. Add on top of that that all his young players have been developing nicely and the team just seems to be as strategically sound as any, and I'm very impressed.

Not looking to bash Nate, and I'll say that depending on what happens I may end up voting for Nate, but I'm really floored by what Monty's accomplished. This was a franchise that had wasted enough of Booker's years that it was plausible he'd force his way out soon. What a turnaround!

Minnesota has room for Booker at any time.

Yes, the suns were incredible and yes, the Suns have developed their young talent in a tremendous way.

Its impossible to separate what Monty has done and what Chris Paul has done and I tend to give Paul more of the credit than Monty.

[Doctor MJ]

All good.

I tend to credit Chris Paul for more of the team improvement than Williams, though I am still impressed by Williams.

And I tend to feel a need to remind people that the Suns looked incredible in the Bubble and that if they hadn't, Paul likely goes somewhere else.

The culture was a losing culture. Monty is the one who changed that. Add on top of that that all his young players have been developing nicely and the team just seems to be as strategically sound as any, and I'm very impressed.

Not looking to bash Nate, and I'll say that depending on what happens I may end up voting for Nate, but I'm really floored by what Monty's accomplished. This was a franchise that had wasted enough of Booker's years that it was plausible he'd force his way out soon. What a turnaround!

Minnesota has room for Booker at any time.

Yes, the suns were incredible and yes, the Suns have developed their young talent in a tremendous way.

Its impossible to separate what Monty has done and what Chris Paul has done and I tend to give Paul more of the credit than Monty.

...or it would be if we handed seen these players look like they'd figured it out while Paul was still playin in another city.

I'll just put it this way:

Prior to the Bubble we were wondering how teams would respond to the hiatus. It had the potential to make some teams fall apart and some teams get tighter, and we saw both happen.

The single most exciting team going into the Bubble was arguably the Pelicans...and we just saw pretty quickly that they looked like a bunch of guys on different planets out there. Unfocused, disoriented, apathetic.

And this was what I expected from the Suns. This was a franchise that had been getting worse and worse ever since Sarver bought it, and there were just all sorts of things wrong there. And yet they showed up to the Bubble as a unified whole. The team played not just focused, but great together, and we started seeing guys emerge as "really good players" who had previously just been prospects - Mikal Bridges chief among them.

I understand all the stuff about "just because they were good in the Bubble doesn't mean..." and that's true, but when a team full of young guys take a step forward look good both during and after the Bubble, the most reasonable explanation is not coincidence, or "luck the first time, CP3 the next", and credit CP3 for recognizing what he could do with this rising tide when he signed on.

[Colbinii]

And I tend to feel a need to remind people that the Suns looked incredible in the Bubble and that if they hadn't, Paul likely goes somewhere else.

The culture was a losing culture. Monty is the one who changed that. Add on top of that that all his young players have been developing nicely and the team just seems to be as strategically sound as any, and I'm very impressed.

Not looking to bash Nate, and I'll say that depending on what happens I may end up voting for Nate, but I'm really floored by what Monty's accomplished. This was a franchise that had wasted enough of Booker's years that it was plausible he'd force his way out soon. What a turnaround!

Minnesota has room for Booker at any time.

Yes, the suns were incredible and yes, the Suns have developed their young talent in a tremendous way.

Its impossible to separate what Monty has done and what Chris Paul has done and I tend to give Paul more of the credit than Monty.

...or it would be if we handed seen these players look like they'd figured it out while Paul was still playin in another city.

I'll just put it this way:

Prior to the Bubble we were wondering how teams would respond to the hiatus. It had the potential to make some teams fall apart and some teams get tighter, and we saw both happen.

The single most exciting team going into the Bubble was arguably the Pelicans...and we just saw pretty quickly that they looked like a bunch of guys on different planets out there. Unfocused, disoriented, apathetic.

And this was what I expected from the Suns. This was a franchise that had been getting worse and worse ever since Sarver bought it, and there were just all sorts of things wrong there. And yet they showed up to the Bubble as a unified whole. The team played not just focused, but great together, and we started seeing guys emerge as "really good players" who had previously just been prospects - Mikal Bridges chief among them.

I understand all the stuff about "just because they were good in the Bubble doesn't mean..." and that's true, but when a team full of young guys take a step forward look good both during and after the Bubble, the most reasonable explanation is not coincidence, or "luck the first time, CP3 the next", and credit CP3 for recognizing what he could do with this rising tide when he signed on.

I dont think anyone is saying "100% CP3, fire Monty" here, which seems to be what you are insinuating I am saying.

I'm saying that Chris Paul had a tremendous impact last season on an extremely young and inexperienced team and then did the same this year.

Yes, the bubble was great, but they beat Washington, Dallas by 2 points because Hardaway/Kleber/Smith combined 3/21 shooting, Heat with no Butler or Dragic, 76ers no Embiid/Simmons, Mavericks (13 minutes Luka and no KP.

[Doctor MJ]

I dont think anyone is saying "100% CP3, fire Monty" here, which seems to be what you are insinuating I am saying.

I'm saying that Chris Paul had a tremendous impact last season on an extremely young and inexperienced team and then did the same this year.

Yes, the bubble was great, but they beat Washington, Dallas by 2 points because Hardaway/Kleber/Smith combined 3/21 shooting, Heat with no Butler or Dragic, 76ers no Embiid/Simmons, Mavericks (13 minutes Luka and no KP.

So to make more clear what I'm talking about when I talk about the Suns being a new team in the Bubble.

Pre-Bubble, the main starting line up was:

Rubio / Booker / Oubre / Saric / Ayton (with Ayton missing roughly half the season)

In the Bubble, their starters:

Rubio / Booker/ Bridges / Johnson / Ayton

This season:

Paul / Booker / Bridges / Crowder / Ayton

I'm hoping that seeing the word "Oubre" stands out here. To say that Bridges has been a upgrade over Oubre since the Bubble is an understatement. It's not a coincidence that the Suns started taking off when Bridges took that big step forward, meanwhile Ayton made strides, Booker was a literal all-star, and Rubio? Some respect needs to be put on his name. Paul's an upgrade over him, but he was damn good last year and the very idea that folks seem to assume the Suns weren't being quarterbacked at all last year just isn't right.

[Max123]

Wonder how big of a hit Gobert’s stock takes because of, mainly, 2 games against the Clippers?


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[Colbinii]

Wonder how big of a hit Gobert’s stock takes because of, mainly, 2 games against the Clippers?


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Well let's see...Embiid has been worse in the post-season given his health.

Jokic was eliminated in the same round to a better team.

Does PG have a shot? Kawhi was injured but having the best playoff run of his career.

Chris Paul could miss games and I don't think the gap in Booker/Gobert regular season bridges it but maybe with a dominant finals performance it does.

Durant missed over 50% of the regular season and has been inconsistent in the post-season.

Is Giannis a viable pick given his offensive ineptitude?

Trae Young? Luka?