2021 Draft Thread

[Scoots1994]

my current top 15 subject to further evaluation.

Tier 1
1. J Suggs
2. C Cunningham
3. J Green
4. E Mobley

Tier 2
5. S Barnes
6. J Kuminga

Tier everyone else
7. J Johnson
8. K Johnson
9. M Moody
10. Z Williams
11. J Springer
12. K Jones
13. J Giddey
14. F Wagner
15. A Sengun

I have a feeling D Mitchell and J Butler from Baylor might bump a couple of these guys out before the draft and I might be too low on Kispert.

I too don't consider Kuminga part of "the top 5" like many seem to. I think Mitchell definitely is in the top 15. Mentally and physically he's capable of being a game changing guard if a nontraditional one. I like Butler too, but I don't have him top 15. On your list the ones I think are the most volatile are Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones, Wagner, and Sengun.

[whatisacenter]

Spoiler:

my current top 15 subject to further evaluation.

Tier 1
1. J Suggs
2. C Cunningham
3. J Green
4. E Mobley

Tier 2
5. S Barnes
6. J Kuminga

Tier everyone else
7. J Johnson
8. K Johnson
9. M Moody
10. Z Williams
11. J Springer
12. K Jones
13. J Giddey
14. F Wagner
15. A Sengun

I have a feeling D Mitchell and J Butler from Baylor might bump a couple of these guys out before the draft and I might be too low on Kispert.

I too don't consider Kuminga part of "the top 5" like many seem to. I think Mitchell definitely is in the top 15. Mentally and physically he's capable of being a game changing guard if a nontraditional one. I like Butler too, but I don't have him top 15. On your list the ones I think are the most volatile are Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones, Wagner, and Sengun.

I appreciate your feedback:

I really like Mitchell's feet and strength on defense but I worry about his short wingspan. He plays below the rim for the most part and his improved 3 point shot will need to translate to the NBA for him to be effective. There were 3 PG's I wanted no part of in last years draft, Mannion, Maxey and Cole Anthony. I was wrong on two of the three so I might be off on Mitchell.

I think Sengun is increadibly skilled but I am not sure he will be able to stay on the floor with his defense, he will need elite wing defender around him and to play drop coverage IMO.

I was higher on Wagner until the NCAA when his 3 point shot went MIA

I am guessing that you have JJ and Kai lower

[GSWFan1994]

my current top 15 subject to further evaluation.

Tier 1
1. J Suggs
2. C Cunningham
3. J Green
4. E Mobley

Tier 2
5. S Barnes
6. J Kuminga

Tier everyone else
7. J Johnson
8. K Johnson
9. M Moody
10. Z Williams
11. J Springer
12. K Jones
13. J Giddey
14. F Wagner
15. A Sengun

I have a feeling D Mitchell and J Butler from Baylor might bump a couple of these guys out before the draft and I might be too low on Kispert.

I like some of the things you did. Let me make a few comments:

- What did you see in Suggs to put him at #1? For me, he's the clear #4, behind the other players in your same tier.

- Jalen Johnson might be getting underrated (let's see in the few coming weeks...). Also like you putting Springer higher than some of the other mocks/big boards around the internet. He might be even higher for me.

- Think you might study Sengun in more depth. He strikes me as a surefire top 8 pick, maybe even higher too.

- Like that you left Mitchell out of the top 15. He's a classic case of the "played well in March Madness, stock skyrocketed" type of player.

Overall, nice work man!

[whatisacenter]

double

[whatisacenter]

Spoiler:

my current top 15 subject to further evaluation.

Tier 1
1. J Suggs
2. C Cunningham
3. J Green
4. E Mobley

Tier 2
5. S Barnes
6. J Kuminga

Tier everyone else
7. J Johnson
8. K Johnson
9. M Moody
10. Z Williams
11. J Springer
12. K Jones
13. J Giddey
14. F Wagner
15. A Sengun

I have a feeling D Mitchell and J Butler from Baylor might bump a couple of these guys out before the draft and I might be too low on Kispert.

I like some of the things you did. Let me make a few comments:

- What did you see in Suggs to put him at #1? For me, he's the clear #4, behind the other players in your same tier.

- Jalen Johnson might be getting underrated (let's see in the few coming weeks...). Also like you putting Springer higher than some of the other mocks/big boards around the internet. He might be even higher for me.

- Think you might study Sengun in more depth. He strikes me as a surefire top 8 pick, maybe even higher too.

- Like that you left Mitchell out of the top 15. He's a classic case of the "played well in March Madness, stock skyrocketed" type of player.

Overall, nice work man!

I really like Suggs size, athleticism, defense and leadership at the PG position. He is the closest thing that I have seen to J Kidd and his shot is already better at this stage in their development. I think his 3 point shot will be respectable as a rookie and will improve over his career. Cade has some elite skills, size and IQ but his lack of lateral quickness on defense and explosiveness on offense has him a notch lower in my book.

I might have Sengun too low but there are not too many successful traditional centers and I worry about his defense in the NBA.

[GSWFan1994]

I really like Suggs size, athleticism, defense and leadership at the PG position. He is the closest thing that I have seen to J Kidd and his shot is already better at this stage in their development. I think his 3 point shot will be respectable as a rookie and will improve over his career. Cade has some elite skills, size and IQ but his lack of lateral quickness on defense and explosiveness on offense has him a notch lower in my book.

I might have Sengun too low but there are not too many successful traditional centers and I worry about his defense in the NBA.

I really like Suggs and think he might be going top 1 in last year's draft. But I'd not put him above Cade, Mobley and Green in this one.

I just think those 3 players have clearly defined roles as NBA players, right out of the bat.

Regarding Sengun, he had very high steal + block rates in Europe, I believe this bodes well for his ability to adapt to the NBA game, defensive-wise, over time.

[Scoots1994]

Spoiler:

my current top 15 subject to further evaluation.

Tier 1
1. J Suggs
2. C Cunningham
3. J Green
4. E Mobley

Tier 2
5. S Barnes
6. J Kuminga

Tier everyone else
7. J Johnson
8. K Johnson
9. M Moody
10. Z Williams
11. J Springer
12. K Jones
13. J Giddey
14. F Wagner
15. A Sengun

I have a feeling D Mitchell and J Butler from Baylor might bump a couple of these guys out before the draft and I might be too low on Kispert.

I too don't consider Kuminga part of "the top 5" like many seem to. I think Mitchell definitely is in the top 15. Mentally and physically he's capable of being a game changing guard if a nontraditional one. I like Butler too, but I don't have him top 15. On your list the ones I think are the most volatile are Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones, Wagner, and Sengun.

I appreciate your feedback:

I really like Mitchell's feet and strength on defense but I worry about his short wingspan. He plays below the rim for the most part and his improved 3 point shot will need to translate to the NBA for him to be effective. There were 3 PG's I wanted no part of in last years draft, Mannion, Maxey and Cole Anthony. I was wrong on two of the three so I might be off on Mitchell.

I think Sengun is increadibly skilled but I am not sure he will be able to stay on the floor with his defense, he will need elite wing defender around him and to play drop coverage IMO.

I was higher on Wagner until the NCAA when his 3 point shot went MIA

I am guessing that you have JJ and Kai lower

I really like JJ, but some have him too high and some have him too low. I just think where he could go is all over the place. If the Warriors took him at 14 I'd be okay with it, at 6 it would be way too early.

Sengun is, I think, going to really move up or down based on his workouts, and his range is really big because of relative athleticism and level of competition questions.

I wonder what Mannion would have done on a terrible team. I don't like short armed short guards in general but appreciate how important drive and effort are too, it's just best if you get size, length, AND drive and effort .... unfortunately those players tend to go really early in the draft

[RichmondWarrior]

I actually really like Scottie Barnes and wouldn’t mind taking him at 6. If we could get Zaire at 14 that would be a coup.....hire a good shooting coach and lock them in the gym all summer. Both of them have all the skills to succeed but just need to shoot more consistent.

[Scoots1994]

I actually really like Scottie Barnes and wouldn’t mind taking him at 6. If we could get Zaire at 14 that would be a coup.....hire a good shooting coach and lock them in the gym all summer. Both of them have all the skills to succeed but just need to shoot more consistent.

Not allowed to do that anymore. The CBA limits team run practice time in the offseason. On the flip side now with a regular schedule maybe for the first time in 3 seasons there will be a LOT more practice time during the season so who ever makes the roster will have a better chance to get better during the season.

[FNQ]

TIL that bad shooting is the result of not being locked in a gym with a good coach for long enough

Rumor has it that Steph never saw natural light until he was 18..

Shooting, like handling, has a finite amount of potential locked into it. It’s not that Steph and Klay practiced harder than most of the NBA, it’s that they were naturally good and still worked at it.

The idea of “let’s draft prime athletes and make them
Good shooters” is no different than “let’s draft good shooters and them prime athletes”. Or telling Kelly Oubre to play smarter. If it were that easy, the NBA would be full of players with no weaknesses

[FNQ]

my current top 15 subject to further evaluation.

Tier 1
1. J Suggs
2. C Cunningham
3. J Green
4. E Mobley

Tier 2
5. S Barnes
6. J Kuminga

Tier everyone else
7. J Johnson
8. K Johnson
9. M Moody
10. Z Williams
11. J Springer
12. K Jones
13. J Giddey
14. F Wagner
15. A Sengun

I have a feeling D Mitchell and J Butler from Baylor might bump a couple of these guys out before the draft and I might be too low on Kispert.

I too don't consider Kuminga part of "the top 5" like many seem to. I think Mitchell definitely is in the top 15. Mentally and physically he's capable of being a game changing guard if a nontraditional one. I like Butler too, but I don't have him top 15. On your list the ones I think are the most volatile are Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones, Wagner, and Sengun.

I don’t get Kuminga in tier 1 or Barnes in tier 2. Kuminga shoots a lot but he’s not really good at it. You’d hope the stroke improves, but if it doesn’t, you have what? Oubre? Maybe Wiggins?

OTOH, Barnes being slotted to Ws is so lazy.. the W’s have been able to make non-shooting non-Cs work here (Livingston, Iguodala, Draymond) but the reality is we had 3 ATG shooters to make up for that. Before KD when we only had 2 + Harrison Barnes, we needed Iguodala to get hot to win a ring. And those were deep teams with proven backups. Scottie Barnes is a project I don’t want to deal with, at a cost I’d never want to pay. I’d not even pretend to be shocked if he made it our 14th pick, which is where I’d think someone like him should be drafted

[mos_def]

The idea of “let’s draft prime athletes and make them
Good shooters” is no different than “let’s draft good shooters and them prime athletes”. Or telling Kelly Oubre to play smarter. If it were that easy, the NBA would be full of players with no weaknesses

There still has to be development in a players game. I dont know if you liked Patrick Williams last year, but Barnes was considered the higher prospect and produced more at the same school. I think Barnes can be good, the two problems is that development of a player who can handle at his size probably doesnt coincide with Curry and Klay's window.

I do like you analysis though. If Ben Simmons could develop a jumper he would be even better but he hasnt. Same with Giannis. Your breakdown of how we needed Iggy to get hot is true. Looking at the roster we need more wings that can shoot. Problem is, drafting them at 6 and 14 means they will get limited minutes at the beginning.

[Scoots1994]

TIL that bad shooting is the result of not being locked in a gym with a good coach for long enough

Rumor has it that Steph never saw natural light until he was 18..

Shooting, like handling, has a finite amount of potential locked into it. It’s not that Steph and Klay practiced harder than most of the NBA, it’s that they were naturally good and still worked at it.

The idea of “let’s draft prime athletes and make them
Good shooters” is no different than “let’s draft good shooters and them prime athletes”. Or telling Kelly Oubre to play smarter. If it were that easy, the NBA would be full of players with no weaknesses

Yes and no. There is a lot of history of players shooting getting significantly better with work, particularly if they have bad mechanics or bad habits AND they are able to correct it. But you are right in that some players are not capable physically of becoming great shooters because of physical limitations ... Shaq and Bogut as two examples, but they can and did get better with work on it.

It is an absolute fact that anybody can get better with GOOD practice, and good practice comes with a commitment by the player and the right coach for them.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

my current top 15 subject to further evaluation.

Tier 1
1. J Suggs
2. C Cunningham
3. J Green
4. E Mobley

Tier 2
5. S Barnes
6. J Kuminga

Tier everyone else
7. J Johnson
8. K Johnson
9. M Moody
10. Z Williams
11. J Springer
12. K Jones
13. J Giddey
14. F Wagner
15. A Sengun

I have a feeling D Mitchell and J Butler from Baylor might bump a couple of these guys out before the draft and I might be too low on Kispert.

I too don't consider Kuminga part of "the top 5" like many seem to. I think Mitchell definitely is in the top 15. Mentally and physically he's capable of being a game changing guard if a nontraditional one. I like Butler too, but I don't have him top 15. On your list the ones I think are the most volatile are Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones, Wagner, and Sengun.

I don’t get Kuminga in tier 1 or Barnes in tier 2. Kuminga shoots a lot but he’s not really good at it. You’d hope the stroke improves, but if it doesn’t, you have what? Oubre? Maybe Wiggins?

OTOH, Barnes being slotted to Ws is so lazy.. the W’s have been able to make non-shooting non-Cs work here (Livingston, Iguodala, Draymond) but the reality is we had 3 ATG shooters to make up for that. Before KD when we only had 2 + Harrison Barnes, we needed Iguodala to get hot to win a ring. And those were deep teams with proven backups. Scottie Barnes is a project I don’t want to deal with, at a cost I’d never want to pay. I’d not even pretend to be shocked if he made it our 14th pick, which is where I’d think someone like him should be drafted

I wouldn't call Barnes a project, but more of an experiment. He's touted as a bigger Iggy and Draymond (To some delusional experts: Magic Johnson. Yeah, really.) where his current, overall skillset and intangibles are solid all-around -- especially high basketball IQ, facilitating and being impactful on defense. The shooting and scoring is something he'll struggle with his entire career.. Just like many point forwards who don't have a defined position (aka tweeners). Unless he has a relentless work ethic to get better. So, most likely, if he's drafted by Dubs, he'll play the 4 and some 5 depending on match-up just like Green (His potential successor?).

With that being said, though, and the Dubs' timeline and contention window of Curry and the gang, I'm gonna say they'll pass on him (And since you mentioned Kuminga, they'll pass up on him, too). Would that be a wise thing to do? Depends on what will come about for the offseason.

[FNQ]

I too don't consider Kuminga part of "the top 5" like many seem to. I think Mitchell definitely is in the top 15. Mentally and physically he's capable of being a game changing guard if a nontraditional one. I like Butler too, but I don't have him top 15. On your list the ones I think are the most volatile are Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones, Wagner, and Sengun.

I don’t get Kuminga in tier 1 or Barnes in tier 2. Kuminga shoots a lot but he’s not really good at it. You’d hope the stroke improves, but if it doesn’t, you have what? Oubre? Maybe Wiggins?

OTOH, Barnes being slotted to Ws is so lazy.. the W’s have been able to make non-shooting non-Cs work here (Livingston, Iguodala, Draymond) but the reality is we had 3 ATG shooters to make up for that. Before KD when we only had 2 + Harrison Barnes, we needed Iguodala to get hot to win a ring. And those were deep teams with proven backups. Scottie Barnes is a project I don’t want to deal with, at a cost I’d never want to pay. I’d not even pretend to be shocked if he made it our 14th pick, which is where I’d think someone like him should be drafted

I wouldn't call Barnes a project, but more of an experiment. He's touted as a bigger Iggy and Draymond (To some delusional experts: Magic Johnson. Yeah, really.) where his current, overall skillset and intangibles are solid all-around -- especially high basketball IQ, facilitating and being impactful on defense. The shooting and scoring is something he'll struggle with his entire career.. Just like many point forwards who don't have a defined position (aka tweeners). Unless he has a relentless work ethic to get better. So, most likely, if he's drafted by Dubs, he'll play the 4 and some 5 depending on match-up just like Green (His potential successor?).

With that being said, though, and the Dubs' timeline and contention window of Curry and the gang, I'm gonna say they'll pass on him (And since you mentioned Kuminga, they'll pass up on him, too). Would that be a wise thing to do? Depends on what will come about for the offseason.

Ya know, at 6'9 227, thats the same size as Kevon Looney I really thought Looney was in the 240s

Maybe I've been looking at this wrong. If we see Barnes as our center, then who knows? But the problem is, how do you play both him and Draymond with only Curry (to start the season).. and then adding Klay later on? Wiggins is the bridge between the potential Curry/Klay & Dray/Barnes combos, but I think that's a dismal offensive starting unit

But if I play out my ideal scenario of trading Looney/14 for Boucher/draft capital, I wonder if Barnes would thrive as the backup big eating up the remainder of the C minutes? Rebounding would need to be shored up for sure, but defensively would be quite a nice start. Or Poole/Barnes become the Curry/Dray of the 2nd unit?

Curry / Poole / Nico
Klay* / Poole / Lee / Mulder
Wiggins / Lee / JTA
Draymond / Barnes / JTA
Boucher / Wiseman / Barnes

Eh.. I still think it would be hard to make it work. And if they draft Barnes as the replacement to Draymond, that's got to be a little concerning to Steph, saying that he's effectively not getting any more legitimate veteran help.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

I don’t get Kuminga in tier 1 or Barnes in tier 2. Kuminga shoots a lot but he’s not really good at it. You’d hope the stroke improves, but if it doesn’t, you have what? Oubre? Maybe Wiggins?

OTOH, Barnes being slotted to Ws is so lazy.. the W’s have been able to make non-shooting non-Cs work here (Livingston, Iguodala, Draymond) but the reality is we had 3 ATG shooters to make up for that. Before KD when we only had 2 + Harrison Barnes, we needed Iguodala to get hot to win a ring. And those were deep teams with proven backups. Scottie Barnes is a project I don’t want to deal with, at a cost I’d never want to pay. I’d not even pretend to be shocked if he made it our 14th pick, which is where I’d think someone like him should be drafted

I wouldn't call Barnes a project, but more of an experiment. He's touted as a bigger Iggy and Draymond (To some delusional experts: Magic Johnson. Yeah, really.) where his current, overall skillset and intangibles are solid all-around -- especially high basketball IQ, facilitating and being impactful on defense. The shooting and scoring is something he'll struggle with his entire career.. Just like many point forwards who don't have a defined position (aka tweeners). Unless he has a relentless work ethic to get better. So, most likely, if he's drafted by Dubs, he'll play the 4 and some 5 depending on match-up just like Green (His potential successor?).

With that being said, though, and the Dubs' timeline and contention window of Curry and the gang, I'm gonna say they'll pass on him (And since you mentioned Kuminga, they'll pass up on him, too). Would that be a wise thing to do? Depends on what will come about for the offseason.

Ya know, at 6'9 227, thats the same size as Kevon Looney I really thought Looney was in the 240s

Maybe I've been looking at this wrong. If we see Barnes as our center, then who knows? But the problem is, how do you play both him and Draymond with only Curry (to start the season).. and then adding Klay later on? Wiggins is the bridge between the potential Curry/Klay & Dray/Barnes combos, but I think that's a dismal offensive starting unit

But if I play out my ideal scenario of trading Looney/14 for Boucher/draft capital, I wonder if Barnes would thrive as the backup big eating up the remainder of the C minutes? Rebounding would need to be shored up for sure, but defensively would be quite a nice start. Or Poole/Barnes become the Curry/Dray of the 2nd unit?

Curry / Poole / Nico
Klay* / Poole / Lee / Mulder
Wiggins / Lee / JTA
Draymond / Barnes / JTA
Boucher / Wiseman / Barnes

Eh.. I still think it would be hard to make it work. And if they draft Barnes as the replacement to Draymond, that's got to be a little concerning to Steph, saying that he's effectively not getting any more legitimate veteran help.

Only reason we'd draft Scottie Barnes is if the squad is doing a full reset of their roster aka Curry, Thompson, and/or Green either retiring, sustained a career-ending injury (Or comeback from an injury that changes how they play), or they demand a trade. But, we know none of that is or will happen *knock on wood*, so I can confidently say that Barnes is not on our radar unless they have reasons to believe that Barnes' skillset and demeanor on the court is way similar or even above Green's too hard to pass up. I'd be surprised if they did because that would mean we will need more shooters and scoring in our 2nd unit if Barnes were to play the 4 or 5.

EDIT: Then, again, you mentioned Looney. I guess it would be interesting to see what a frontcourt of Green (4) and Barnes (5) would look like, where Barnes can serve to be a point center. If Barnes can do a bit of everything Looney does for us currently (While hopefully improve his spot-up jumpers.), then I can see good things.

Just makes you wonder where that leaves Wiseman, and why we even drafted Wiseman when the league has transformed to a more perimeter game?

[Scoots1994]

Only reason we'd draft Scottie Barnes is if the squad is doing a full reset of their roster aka Curry, Thompson, and/or Green either retiring, sustained a career-ending injury (Or comeback from an injury that changes how they play), or they demand a trade. But, we know none of that is or will happen *knock on wood*, so I can confidently say that Barnes is not on our radar unless they have reasons to believe that Barnes' skillset and demeanor on the court is way similar or even above Green's too hard to pass up. I'd be surprised if they did because that would mean we will need more shooters and scoring in our 2nd unit if Barnes were to play the 4 or 5.

EDIT: Then, again, you mentioned Looney. I guess it would be interesting to see what a frontcourt of Green (4) and Barnes (5) would look like, where Barnes can serve to be a point center. If Barnes can do a bit of everything Looney does for us currently (While hopefully improve his spot-up jumpers.), then I can see good things.

Just makes you wonder where that leaves Wiseman, and why we even drafted Wiseman when the league has transformed to a more perimeter game?

I suspect they take the BPA when they are on the board. That BPA should incorporate fit in the system, but I would guess they would not prioritize fit for minutes immediately but long term. Just like Wiseman.

[RichmondWarrior]

Drafting wiseman was the biggest mistake of Meyers career.... we need a player like Lamelo (even before the klay injury) and we literally Passed on him for a project who doesn’t fit today’s NBA and is soft

[GSWFan1994]

I still can't decide if I like Keon Johnson or not.

Thoughts on him?

[ILOVEIT]

2 weeks until the draft lottery and we find out the Warriors fortunes! Come on 1 and 4! I would also be happy with anything and 14.

If we come away with a top 4 choice, that would be really exciting. Even if the Minny pick doesnt convey, its still a huge win.

Worst case scenario is we get 14 and Minny pick doesnt convey. That would be a big let down. I have confidence in the light years mojo tho.

Not jinx anything....but I don't think Warriors can lose in either situation. Maybe the worse they can do is get the 8th pick this year.

Because really if they don't get this years...they get next. And how many of us really think the Wolves are going to bounce back and have a good year next year. I think they continue to implode and Warriors are right back NEXT year with a chance at the top of the lotterly unprotected.

So...either way....it's working out