RexBoyWonder wrote: 1) Prozingis is a HUGE health risk. Huge. All the red flags are there. You have to think about the reasons Mavs want to move him. They know him better then anyone.
2) Even when healthy, he's not a first option. He's a second option at best on a good team. 3 FT a game for a 7'2 guy are a bad sign, just like the drop in blocks rate. His defense really fell off post ACL injury.
Basically he's a guy you take a gamble on if you're missing the 2/3 star and have no other option. but On this team - the best case scenario won't result in a good enough team. And If he gets hurt again, you're stuck with 3 years 35Mil$ unmovable unplayable stiff.
1. Health could be an issue but it's not the biggest reason why Dallas would want to move KP, the plan has changed in Dallas which even KP has brought up, it was suppose to be a 1a, 1b situation with him and Luka(which he also mentions now) but Luka is way too good to even consider KP anywhere near his level for offense which has made KP a 30 million dollar role-player with Luka, that money can be much better utilized then that.
2. Let's just be perfectly honest about KP. Right now KP is a very tall(7'3'') stiff that can shoot. He's a very limited offensive player who wouldn't be in the NBA if he wasn't nearly as tall as he is. That being said, he can shoot, he has the ability to get a clean shot off against nearly anyone and if one of the few people who are tall enough to contest him end up around the 3pt line with him, he should have enough skill/ability to go right past those types of players. I do see KP and Bam being a very good front court, on offense Bam could still facilitate and KP could end possessions with his shooting. On defense, KP is still weak and lanky but has the ability to keep rebounds alive that currently Miami has ZERO chance at with Bam playing center(with a stretch 4 next to him), with KP he at least stops those clean easy rebounds from going to the other team.
KP is not a finished product, get him in Miami's environment to get him stronger with the coaching staff and your best player's encouragement you may see a much better Porzingis.
Interesting numbers... KP shot nearly 38% from 3pt range, his shot % from 3pt range did not drop nor get that much better if the defender had tight coverage on him or if he were wide open meaning his height gave him the ability not to be bothered by a defender. This is possibly also a negative too because with those numbers the other team might as well have one of your worse defender on him... in those situations KP has to be able to take advantage of that lack of defense which probably means getting closer to the basket and utilize post moves on them.
Stay away from KP. The past is the best predictor of future results. He can't stay healthy for a full season. No matter what the appeal is you are trading for broken goods and a bad contract.
In the very recent past (the 2021 regular season) KP put up 20 and 9 on 58% TS with a 117 ORTG. And before anyone asks, no, I'm not gonna read too much into a 7 game sample size postseason vs a Clips team that turns out to be a uniquely lethal 5-out smallball team
I am of course not thrilled with KP's durability; if you trade for him you should probably just pencil him in for missing about 15-20 RS games. But if his durability wasn't an issue then we wouldn't even be having this conversation about trading minimal assets for the 25yo former allstar. On the bright side he won't be having any offseason surgery afaik so he has the entire summer to rest up and hopefully come into next season 100%
Couple of past articles to digest in regards to Porzingis wanting to come here and our interest during draft.
C Kristaps Porzingis 7’3 PF Bam Adebayo 6’9 SF Jimmy Butler 6’7 SG Duncan Robinson 6’7 PG Kendrick Nunn 6’2
That’s not a bad starting 5 especially if we compliment it with a strong bench. McConnell would be a rock solid backup to Nunn.
1) Prozingis is a HUGE health risk. Huge. All the red flags are there. You have to think about the reasons Mavs want to move him. They know him better then anyone.
2) Even when healthy, he's not a first option. He's a second option at best on a good team. 3 FT a game for a 7'2 guy are a bad sign, just like the drop in blocks rate. His defense really fell off post ACL injury.
Basically he's a guy you take a gamble on if you're missing the 2/3 star and have no other option. but On this team - the best case scenario won't result in a good enough team. And If he gets hurt again, you're stuck with 3 years 35Mil$ unmovable unplayable stiff.
THANK YOU. He is not worth the risk. We need a 1st option on offense. He is 3rd at best on a contender if healthy (will he ever gonna be?) . He is not a unicorn anymore. Dallas can't wait to get rid of him. They know the best.
RexBoyWonder wrote: 1) Prozingis is a HUGE health risk. Huge. All the red flags are there. You have to think about the reasons Mavs want to move him. They know him better then anyone.
2) Even when healthy, he's not a first option. He's a second option at best on a good team. 3 FT a game for a 7'2 guy are a bad sign, just like the drop in blocks rate. His defense really fell off post ACL injury.
Basically he's a guy you take a gamble on if you're missing the 2/3 star and have no other option. but On this team - the best case scenario won't result in a good enough team. And If he gets hurt again, you're stuck with 3 years 35Mil$ unmovable unplayable stiff.
1. Health could be an issue but it's not the biggest reason why Dallas would want to move KP, the plan has changed in Dallas which even KP has brought up, it was suppose to be a 1a, 1b situation with him and Luka(which he also mentions now) but Luka is way too good to even consider KP anywhere near his level for offense which has made KP a 30 million dollar role-player with Luka, that money can be much better utilized then that.
2. Let's just be perfectly honest about KP. Right now KP is a very tall(7'3'') stiff that can shoot. He's a very limited offensive player who wouldn't be in the NBA if he wasn't nearly as tall as he is. That being said, he can shoot, he has the ability to get a clean shot off against nearly anyone and if one of the few people who are tall enough to contest him end up around the 3pt line with him, he should have enough skill/ability to go right past those types of players. I do see KP and Bam being a very good front court, on offense Bam could still facilitate and KP could end possessions with his shooting. On defense, KP is still weak and lanky but has the ability to keep rebounds alive that currently Miami has ZERO chance at with Bam playing center(with a stretch 4 next to him), with KP he at least stops those clean easy rebounds from going to the other team.
KP is not a finished product, get him in Miami's environment to get him stronger with the coaching staff and your best player's encouragement you may see a much better Porzingis.
Interesting numbers... KP shot nearly 38% from 3pt range, his shot % from 3pt range did not drop nor get that much better if the defender had tight coverage on him or if he were wide open meaning his height gave him the ability not to be bothered by a defender. This is possibly also a negative too because with those numbers the other team might as well have one of your worse defender on him... in those situations KP has to be able to take advantage of that lack of defense which probably means getting closer to the basket and utilize post moves on them.
Stay away from KP. The past is the best predictor of future results. He can't stay healthy for a full season. No matter what the appeal is you are trading for broken goods and a bad contract.
I get the injuries in the past but you can't just blanket everyone who had injuries early in their career as unacceptable players, you talk with your medical staff and access risk vs reward. Had Golden State just stayed away from players with injured pasts they would have cut ties with Steph "glass ankles" Curry before they became a powerhouse.
There are always risks which is why I look at 3 to possibly 5 year windows. Porzingis had 3 more years left on his contract although the 3rd is a player option, I consider it being an initial 1-2 years with Miami and the last year a decision year for the next window by resigning him if he's a good player or if he's bad moving him as an expiring with assets to bring in someone better for the team.
The biggest issue is adding someone around 30 mil puts Miami around 96 million dollars for 3 players(Butler, Bam, 30 mil player) which means finding the rest of your roster(12 players which include 2 more starters and 3 more rotation players) for around 37 million to stay under the tax line. You'd have to believe that KP would really complement Butler and Bam, allow Miami to play with more diverse wings/guards vs more diverse bigs (like Dedmon, Ariza, Olynyk, Meyers) and be a better scorer then he has which currently has been 20 ppg in 31-32 minutes a night(ends up being 23+ points per36 which is pretty good).
Here's an interesting question, do you get better play out of Bam and Precious at the 4 (with a stretch 5) where they'll actually be bigger most nights at their position vs being smaller at the 5 and possibly also the SF being smaller then the other teams 4? Miami could still go small with either at different points during the game instead of just trying to make small ball work from the tip off.
Even if it's not KP, I think getting a starting center with legit size and a near league average 3 ball is one of the 2 top priorities(if not the top priority) for the team this summer.
Miami has to take what they can get. Build a team around Dipo, Butler and KP. Those three will probably miss a seasons worth of games combined but beggars can't be choosers.
DayofMourning wrote:Miami has to take what they can get. Build a team around Dipo, Butler and KP. Those three will probably miss a seasons worth of games combined but beggars can't be choosers.
If Miami doesn't work as a team with cap space, they can do basically all the moves they want to and then with whatever is left, offer Oladipo that on a 1+1(Player option) and if he heals up and can be a player for you, he can opt out and be resigned and Miami can make whatever moves they need to, to get the cap space needed to sign him for more next offseason.
If Oladipo wants more then what Miami can give, let him go out and get offers and Miami can help him get to a capped team through a sign and trade that brings them back an asset.
I like Oladipo, I wanted him in Miami last year just to get his medicals before considering signing him in the offseason, if Miami's medical staff believes he's not much of a risk after this recent surgery sure, sign him and have him be a core member for the short window 3-4 years with a team option as the last year.
Without 2 top tier talents in Miami, this team has to take multiple risks in hopes of having enough talent to legitimately contend for a title in the next 2-3 years, after that Bam should be near what he'll be in his prime and you can start planning to put the appropriate players around him which may be dramatically different then what he needs around him now.
I would really laugh may ass out if our front office is even considering Tingus Pingus.
Imagine him not playing 30+ games or more next season then he comes back Playoff time and re-injure again with his remaining 100+ million dollars contract.
I would imagine Mavs are trying their best know to find a trading partner and they have to throw a pick as well. Execs around the league would truly be cautious.
Atleast Dipo is expiring. Riles would know better for sure.
marson wrote:I would really laugh may ass out if our front office is even considering Tingus Pingus.
Imagine him not playing 30+ games or more next season then he comes back Playoff time and re-injure again with his remaining 100+ million dollars contract.
I would imagine Mavs are trying their best know to find a trading partner and they have to throw a pick as well. Execs around the league would truly be cautious.
Atleast Dipo is expiring. Riles would know better for sure.
marson wrote:I would really laugh may ass out if our front office is even considering Tingus Pingus.
Imagine him not playing 30+ games or more next season then he comes back Playoff time and re-injure again with his remaining 100+ million dollars contract.
I would imagine Mavs are trying their best know to find a trading partner and they have to throw a pick as well. Execs around the league would truly be cautious.
Atleast Dipo is expiring. Riles would know better for sure.
Absolutely! You can use that money on the next Iggy and Ariza combo for nearly the same amount without that pesky upside.
Winning in the NBA is hard without a top tier player, so if you don't have that you have to take chances on talent, sometimes it's unproven talent, sometimes it talent that never lived up to their potential and sometimes it's talent that has had injuries in the past.
KP wouldn't be my first target but I'd be in talks to find out what the price might be for a player like that just in case my higher targets didn't happen.
marson wrote:I would really laugh may ass out if our front office is even considering Tingus Pingus.
Imagine him not playing 30+ games or more next season then he comes back Playoff time and re-injure again with his remaining 100+ million dollars contract.
I would imagine Mavs are trying their best know to find a trading partner and they have to throw a pick as well. Execs around the league would truly be cautious.
Atleast Dipo is expiring. Riles would know better for sure.
NBADraft2003 wrote:That’s not what you said, you said:
And you still haven’t answered why OKC would just gift us our ‘23 1st back just for Precious and no other incentives to do that?
If your referring to the first part, none of them requested a trade to OKC or stayed there? If your referring to the second part you named one guy who requested one small market who were the top team at the time. My point still stands.
It's your opinion that they would be gifting us our pick for Precious, I don't view it as uneven value. If we have a deal in place for a whale I don't envision Riley not being able to find a way to sweeten the deal if that's what it requires. He could offer our 2022 2nd rounder or KZ Okpala or he could involve a 3rd team and send them Precious for a protected 1st then send them the FRP and a 2nd for our 1st. You act as if its going to take us offering Tyler Herro to get our 1st back.
You’re just moving goal posts with it. You asked who got traded there and signed an extension to stay, I gave a few names. Then you asked if any player requested a trade to a small market or better yet had them on list of preferences, I gave you names. And that makes my point, I doesn’t matter about market size. It’s how your team is run that attracts players. And no, neither Miami or San Antonio are big market teams. New York, Chicago, LA are the main ones and Miami is like medium. I didn’t act like anything, all I said was that it was going to take more than Precious to get that pick back and it absolutely will. Who do you think is running that front office, Billy King?
I'm not moving goal posts. My point from the beginning was OKC's market is too small to attract big name free agents to request to be traded there. In OKC's case its not only just the market size, there are many other factors that make them an unattractive FA destination, but market size is a big factor since they are in the bottom 4 teams in just about all metrics. If your only example of them being probable as a FA destination is PG13 signing an extension and then requesting a trade the next offseason then there's no point continuing this discussion.
marson wrote:I would really laugh may ass out if our front office is even considering Tingus Pingus.
Imagine him not playing 30+ games or more next season then he comes back Playoff time and re-injure again with his remaining 100+ million dollars contract.
I would imagine Mavs are trying their best know to find a trading partner and they have to throw a pick as well. Execs around the league would truly be cautious.
Atleast Dipo is expiring. Riles would know better for sure.
So who fits the bill that’s realistically available that can bring some sort of size upgrade next to Bam but yet still be athletic to switch and stretch floor. Bobby Portis, Daniel Theis, Rudy Gay, JaMychal Green, Trey Lyles, Otto Porter, or trade for Kristaps Porzingis. The list is small. If someone can give out some more realistic options i might have missed please feel free to add to the discussion.
We also need get an athletic scorer who can play defense at the two. No way we can go with the combo of Robinson and Herro since they do not compliment each other one bit and defensively not playable with each other. Oladipo was supposed to be that guy. Do we resign or go in another direction? My gut tells me we give Dipo another shot to get healthy here cheap.
MettaWorldPanda wrote:We also need get an athletic scorer who can play defense at the two. No way we can go with the combo of Robinson and Herro since they do not compliment each other one bit and defensively not playable with each other. Oladipo was supposed to be that guy. Do we resign or go in another direction? My gut tells me we give Dipo another shot to get healthy here cheap.
1yr prove it deal for Dipo with a team option 2nd year. Gives him a chance and rewards us for it if he shows out with a cheaper second year. If he doesn’t, we can cut bait next offseason.
Formerly BG44, MB30 and Wade County at BasketballForum.com
MettaWorldPanda wrote:We also need get an athletic scorer who can play defense at the two. No way we can go with the combo of Robinson and Herro since they do not compliment each other one bit and defensively not playable with each other. Oladipo was supposed to be that guy. Do we resign or go in another direction? My gut tells me we give Dipo another shot to get healthy here cheap.
1yr prove it deal for Dipo with a team option 2nd year. Gives him a chance and rewards us for it if he shows out with a cheaper second year. If he doesn’t, we can cut bait next offseason.
Would seem like an easy decision using his bird rights. If and when he comes back healthy he would be ideal coming off the bench for Herro to preserve his health.
We saw it with Bertans and Joe Harris, you cant trust these one dimensional shooters night in and night out come playoff time. That alvin the chipmunk dude on the bucks lit us up and he’s making 2 mil this year. Connaughton had a few nice games for them and he’s making under 5 mil. You can find any shmuck nowadays to be a “shooter”, hell for 12 mil you can probably have 3 on the roster and rotate based on who is hot and cold. It would be foolish to pay Duncan.
