2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Discussion Thread

[BobbyPortisFan]

I'm thinking poy is between giannis, jokic, and curry now. If embid gets healthy and shows out he can stake a claim to.

[falcolombardi]

curry Claim is very hard for me to make

he was not better than curry in regular season and didnt make the playoffs unlike jokic

overall i dont see what argument could be made to put curry about jokic

right now it comes down between jokic, embiid and giannis (dursnt has great playoffs but too short and a injured regular season

[Colbinii]

I'm thinking poy is between giannis, jokic, and curry now. If embid gets healthy and shows out he can stake a claim to.

What exactly is Curry's argument?

He was pretty clearly, to me, equal or slightly worse than Jokic in the regular season (I had Jokic ahead of Curry in the RS) and then Jokic performed great in the post-season.

[eminence]

I'm thinking poy is between giannis, jokic, and curry now. If embid gets healthy and shows out he can stake a claim to.

What exactly is Curry's argument?

He was pretty clearly, to me, equal or slightly worse than Jokic in the regular season (I had Jokic ahead of Curry in the RS) and then Jokic performed great in the post-season.

I have Jokic pretty cleanly above Curry for this one, but I'd at least entertain the idea that Jokic did not have a particularly great post-season.

[falcolombardi]

I'm thinking poy is between giannis, jokic, and curry now. If embid gets healthy and shows out he can stake a claim to.

What exactly is Curry's argument?

He was pretty clearly, to me, equal or slightly worse than Jokic in the regular season (I had Jokic ahead of Curry in the RS) and then Jokic performed great in the post-season.

I have Jokic pretty cleanly above Curry for this one, but I'd at least entertain the idea that Jokic did not have a particularly great post-season.

but curry did not have a post season, we dont know how he would have done in it

saying that jokic is below curry cause he was not great in the playoffs is assuming curry would have been better which is far from sure thingh

[eminence]

What exactly is Curry's argument?

He was pretty clearly, to me, equal or slightly worse than Jokic in the regular season (I had Jokic ahead of Curry in the RS) and then Jokic performed great in the post-season.

I have Jokic pretty cleanly above Curry for this one, but I'd at least entertain the idea that Jokic did not have a particularly great post-season.

but curry did not have a post season, we dont know how he would have done in it

saying that jokic is below curry cause he was not great in the playoffs is assuming curry would have been better which is far from sure thingh

A) Curry did effectively have a 2-3 game post-season, comparable to plenty of 1st round and out guys.

B) Sure, and I'm comfortable with the idea that much of what we do on the PC board is an imperfect science. If Embiid or Giannis have a terrible ECF I'm going to hold that against them in comparison to Jokic even though Jokic himself didn't play in that round. We learn new things about players when we see them play more and it helps us grow our evaluation of those players.

[PaulieWal]

I am not sure what people were expecting from Nash. When you have KD and Kyrie saying we don't need a head coach, or we are all coaches or whatever that exact quote was, the Nets clearly need a people manager coach than a strategist coach. No way they would be happy under a guy like Pop, Spo, Lue, Carlisle etc.

I need to see Nash in more playoff action to see if he can actually be a good strategist too, nothing in these two series gave him much opportunity to strategize IMO. The Celtics series was a cakewalk either way, and with Kyrie and Harden going down he just played KD as many minutes possible - which was the only adjustment to make.

Make no mistake though, I don't think KD is looking to be coached. There are so many reports of him being unhappy with Kerr and Kerr is more of a player manager than strategist anyway. The only way I can see Nash loses his job is if the Nets fail to win next year again with full health.

[BobbyPortisFan]

I'm thinking poy is between giannis, jokic, and curry now. If embid gets healthy and shows out he can stake a claim to.

What exactly is Curry's argument?

He was pretty clearly, to me, equal or slightly worse than Jokic in the regular season (I had Jokic ahead of Curry in the RS) and then Jokic performed great in the post-season.

I have Jokic pretty cleanly above Curry for this one, but I'd at least entertain the idea that Jokic did not have a particularly great post-season.

mostly that curry's defense is fine for a pg, but jokic's defense as a center is tough. But i just mentioned him for posteiry. I'd have jokic or giannis ahead of curry probably

[BobbyPortisFan]

I was thinking more for DPOY. There doesn't seem to be a "versatile" defender right now who is on a playoff team and doing good. Will people simply just vote for Green anyway?

I really, really don't know what to do with DPOY so I'm just looking to chew it over more.

Last year something that we didn't really even talk about that much was that AD was getting the nod almost purely because of his playoff performance. Yes he got talked about as a DPOY candidate early in that season, but base don regular season impact, dude wasn't a real challenger. In the playoffs though, he was clearly the best defender in the Bubble.

When we end these playoffs, if there's a key guy in the playoffs who stands out as the most effective defender, I imagine we'll all get pulled toward him...but what if we don't get that?

What if we just end up in a situation where there aren't defensive standouts like that? What if the best 5-out just wins?

I will say, it's hard for me too swallow the idea of a guy jumping up to #1 on any award based on not playing in the playoffs, where others played and struggled. It doesn't seem right, but I'm not sure what does seem right.

Giannis?

[eminence]

Many of my contenders knocked out (Jokic/Gobert/Embiid) or injured (Kawhi/kinda CP3) at the end of round 2. Opening back up a bit. Almost certain Jokic is the #1 of eliminated guys. Giannis a virtual lock to overtake if the Bucks win it though. PG/Trae Young/Booker all getting their shots to make the ballot, though I can't see any of them winning it. KD comes up short for my ballot.

[HeartBreakKid]

Giannis has been playing well lately, but I really doubt he's winning POY on my ballot, and I would be surprised if he placed top 5. I'm not comfortable rewarding guys too much for being on winning teams. The Bucks really should have been knocked out to a team that wasn't that impressive.


I'm disqualifying anyone who played less than 70% of the RS - so Durant wouldn't make my list regardless. (and he played waaaay less than that)

I'm thinking Embiid, Curry and Leonard would go in with Jokic (my #1). The 5th spot is more open - I'm thinking Lillard or Doncic. Not sure if CP3 can play his way up in time, I suppose we'll see he looked awesome against Denver who has swiss cheese defense. Trae Young is an interesting contender, and will certainly be worth looking at. That might be my guy.

[eminence]

I have no idea how Kawhi could be over Giannis as things currently stand. RSs were quite comparable with Giannis being healthier and now Kawhi has missed the last 3 playoff games and seems set to miss more, of course if he returns game 2 and leads the Clips on a rampage that's a different story.

[HeartBreakKid]

I have no idea how Kawhi could be over Giannis as things currently stand. RSs were quite comparable with Giannis being healthier and now Kawhi has missed the last 3 playoff games and seems set to miss more, of course if he returns game 2 and leads the Clips on a rampage that's a different story.

I think he was a lot better than Giannis during the post season.

[eminence]

I have no idea how Kawhi could be over Giannis as things currently stand. RSs were quite comparable with Giannis being healthier and now Kawhi has missed the last 3 playoff games and seems set to miss more, of course if he returns game 2 and leads the Clips on a rampage that's a different story.

I think he was a lot better than Giannis during the post season.

I'd stop short of 'a lot' (offensively for certain, but overall), but I guess the main thing is - you said you're disqualifying anybody below 70% for the RS, but not seemingly very meaningful penalties for a guy at 72% during the RS and 79% and dropping during the playoffs. Doesn't add up for me.

[HeartBreakKid]

I have no idea how Kawhi could be over Giannis as things currently stand. RSs were quite comparable with Giannis being healthier and now Kawhi has missed the last 3 playoff games and seems set to miss more, of course if he returns game 2 and leads the Clips on a rampage that's a different story.

I think he was a lot better than Giannis during the post season.

I'd stop short of 'a lot' (offensively for certain, but overall), but I guess the main thing is - you said you're disqualifying anybody below 70% for the RS, but not seemingly very meaningful penalties for a guy at 72% during the RS and 79% and dropping during the playoffs. Doesn't add up for me.

How doesn't it add up?

Less than 70% of the season is a small sample size. Not worth ranking in my opinion, doesn't mean the player had zero value. They're simply not eligible, hence disqualified.

If they're above 70% then I don't care about how many games they played.

I don't believe in ranking players due to additive value of games played. It's not a relevant factor to me, especially in the post season where the amount of games played is out of a players hands even if they are healthy.

[Doctor MJ]

Many of my contenders knocked out (Jokic/Gobert/Embiid) or injured (Kawhi/kinda CP3) at the end of round 2. Opening back up a bit. Almost certain Jokic is the #1 of eliminated guys. Giannis a virtual lock to overtake if the Bucks win it though. PG/Trae Young/Booker all getting their shots to make the ballot, though I can't see any of them winning it. KD comes up short for my ballot.

I see it similarly. Giannis is the one guy who now has a clear path to overtake Jokic. He hasn't done it yet, but he doesn't necessarily need to win the title (but neither will a title necessarily guarantee him the #1 spot).

I will say that whenever I can look back at the end of the playoffs and say "This guy was clearly the star of the playoffs", they are a strong candidate for #1 on my POY ballot. Those still playing, I'm not going to say they don't have a shot, even if I think it would take something black swan for me to actually get there.

[Dutchball97]

I wonder what it would take for Trae Young to get into the top 5. He's been amazing in the play-offs and as an All-Star level guy in the regular season who didn't miss too much time it shouldn't be impossible for him to enter the conversation.

Jokic and Giannis are looking like a pretty clear top 2 in my eyes and the last 3 spots are between Kawhi, Embiid and the guard trio of Dame, Luka and Curry. It's going to be a difficult road but beating the Bucks (with a strong individual performance as well of course) could get Trae firmly in the mix imo.

Paul George might be an outsider choice if he somehow gets the Clippers past the Suns without Kawhi. CP3 might still be able to throw his name in the hat too but the injuries are counting up.

I had Gobert on the fringe pf the top 5 for the regular season but his post-season play didn't really do him any favors.

[Texas Chuck]

Giannis has been playing well lately, but I really doubt he's winning POY on my ballot, and I would be surprised if he placed top 5. I'm not comfortable rewarding guys too much for being on winning teams. The Bucks really should have been knocked out to a team that wasn't that impressive.

Once again it feels like we are ignoring how his best offensive teammates were playing. Jrue still gives you a fair bit defensively, but he was brutal on offense and Middleton wasn't much better. I don't think we are rewarding Giannis for being on a winning team, I think we have to realize he's the primary reason they advanced to the ECF.

[BobbyPortisFan]

Giannis has been playing well lately, but I really doubt he's winning POY on my ballot, and I would be surprised if he placed top 5. I'm not comfortable rewarding guys too much for being on winning teams. The Bucks really should have been knocked out to a team that wasn't that impressive.

Once again it feels like we are ignoring how his best offensive teammates were playing. Jrue still gives you a fair bit defensively, but he was brutal on offense and Middleton wasn't much better. I don't think we are rewarding Giannis for being on a winning team, I think we have to realize he's the primary reason they advanced to the ECF.

I think big men are held to a higher standard than wings because people don't want to account for defense. If we just judged the bucks by results these last three years,
-> almost won title in 19
-> lose to a team that took 2 games off the lakers with bam and dragic hobbled
-> dominante the defending eastern champs by a bigger margin than any other series winner
-> beat a team with a bunch of shooting and decent defense which had two arguable top 10 players on the court at the same time for most of the series.

calling that "not top 5" seems silly. The bucks are pretty average without giannis and they've been successful in the postseaosn and extremely successful in the regular season.

If giannis was on the mavericks, we're probably havving very different conversations than "does he have a case as the best player" or "is he top five".

[HeartBreakKid]

Giannis has been playing well lately, but I really doubt he's winning POY on my ballot, and I would be surprised if he placed top 5. I'm not comfortable rewarding guys too much for being on winning teams. The Bucks really should have been knocked out to a team that wasn't that impressive.

Once again it feels like we are ignoring how his best offensive teammates were playing. Jrue still gives you a fair bit defensively, but he was brutal on offense and Middleton wasn't much better. I don't think we are rewarding Giannis for being on a winning team, I think we have to realize he's the primary reason they advanced to the ECF.

I think big men are held to a higher standard than wings because people don't want to account for defense. If we just judged the bucks by results these last three years,
-> almost won title in 19
-> lose to a team that took 2 games off the lakers with bam and dragic hobbled
-> dominante the defending eastern champs by a bigger margin than any other series winner
-> beat a team with a bunch of shooting and decent defense which had two arguable top 10 players on the court at the same time for most of the series.

calling that "not top 5" seems silly. The bucks are pretty average without giannis and they've been successful in the postseaosn and extremely successful in the regular season.

If giannis was on the mavericks, we're probably havving very different conversations than "does he have a case as the best player" or "is he top five".

What does the bold have to do with each other?

The Bucks weren't that close to winning the championship either - the Sixers sure, the Bucks were decisively beaten, and likely would have been beaten by the Sixers as well. Giannis did not play well in that series either.