Simmons Possible?

[LivingLegend]

Hey all, just quick question. If Simmons were made available, would you go after him and at what cost?

Love would have to be involved for salary matching + another asset to make it worth while for Philly.

Maybe Love + Sexton for Simmons? or Love + 2021 1st for Simmons?

You make that trade and go into next year with the starting lineup of:

PG- Garland
SG- Okoro
SF- Kuminga/Green/Johnson/Barnes
PF- Simmons
C- Allen

That defense would be great, but there would have to be a loooot of growing to do on offense from Okoro/Simmons/Allen

[JonFromVA]

Hey all, just quick question. If Simmons were made available, would you go after him and at what cost?

Love would have to be involved for salary matching + another asset to make it worth while for Philly.

Maybe Love + Sexton for Simmons? or Love + 2021 1st for Simmons?

You make that trade and go into next year with the starting lineup of:

PG- Garland
SG- Okoro
SF- Kuminga/Green/Johnson/Barnes
PF- Simmons
C- Allen

That defense would be great, but there would have to be a loooot of growing to do on offense from Okoro/Simmons/Allen

I wonder if Garland wouldn't be the one traded over Sexton in that scenario given a lot of the offense would run through Simmons and Philly might prefer a PG unless they're sold on Maxey?

It would clean up some issues while creating others, namely shooting & spacing.

And unless Ben bothers to work on aspects of his game, spending $40M/yr on a player who probably shouldn't be on the floor in important moments seems like a mistake; but we could swallow some of that and call it the "Getting Rid of Kevin Love Tax".

We can talk a little bit more sensibly about these scenarios tomorrow after the lottery.

[toooskies]

Simmons would fit but his lack of shooting makes it a tough fit in a lineup with the 2021 versions of Okoro + Allen.

I'm not sure Philly would buy into Sexton being their PG, they'd insist on Garland. They also wouldn't really want a pick, they're in win-now mode.

So Garland/Okoro/Love (or Prince?) for Simmons is the deal that the Cavs would offer, with some contract (Green? Hill?) coming back to Cleveland. Maybe a pick or two going to Philly too, but not this year's pick unless it falls to 7+.

[LivingLegend]

Simmons would fit but his lack of shooting makes it a tough fit in a lineup with the 2021 versions of Okoro + Allen.

I'm not sure Philly would buy into Sexton being their PG, they'd insist on Garland. They also wouldn't really want a pick, they're in win-now mode.

So Garland/Okoro/Love (or Prince?) for Simmons is the deal that the Cavs would offer, with some contract (Green? Hill?) coming back to Cleveland. Maybe a pick or two going to Philly too, but not this year's pick unless it falls to 7+.

Idk if I'm trading either Garland or Okoro for Simmons.... Both players are a ascending and getting better by the season where Simmons has been declining.

I like Garlands trajectory so much that I'm not sure I would even trade him straight up for Simmons lol

Either way having Okoro/Simmons/Allen on the floor together at the same time would be horrible from a floor spacing perspective

[Stillwater]

We just saw first hand how easy it is to beat Simmons by fouling him so much he passes up dunks in crunch time.
I wouldn't trade Love straight up for him at this point tbh

[LivingLegend]

We just saw first hand how easy it is to beat Simmons by fouling him so much he passes up dunks in crunch time.
I wouldn't trade Love straight up for him at this point tbh

Easily would trade Love for him straight up. You would essentially be banking on Simmons turning it around. Simmons offers at least huge upside and is a 'buy low' candidate that small market teams who cant attract FAs like Cleveland have to pull the trigger on.

The thing is whats his value and what would the 76ers ask for. Could just Love get it done? Would it be Love + player or Love + pick?

Im in a weird middle ground of thinking just Love is not enough but including a player like Garland/Sexton/1st rounder is a overpay.

[Stillwater]

We just saw first hand how easy it is to beat Simmons by fouling him so much he passes up dunks in crunch time.
I wouldn't trade Love straight up for him at this point tbh

Easily would trade Love for him straight up. Love is beyond washed. Simmons offers at least huge upside and is a 'buy low' candidate that small market teams who cant attract FAs like Cleveland have to pull the trigger on.

The thing is whats his value and what would the 76ers ask for. Could just Love get it done? Would it be Love + player or Love + pick?

Im in a weird middle ground of thinking just Love is not enough but including a player like Garland/Sexton/1st rounder is a overpay.

I am not adding years of overpaid salary in the middle of a rebuild when I can buyout KLove this winter. Simmons is proving to not have what it takes to win. Your idea here is not something I can agree with at all. I think if anything you inherit Philly's biggest problem going forward and give them an out.
hard pass

[LivingLegend]

We just saw first hand how easy it is to beat Simmons by fouling him so much he passes up dunks in crunch time.
I wouldn't trade Love straight up for him at this point tbh

Easily would trade Love for him straight up. Love is beyond washed. Simmons offers at least huge upside and is a 'buy low' candidate that small market teams who cant attract FAs like Cleveland have to pull the trigger on.

The thing is whats his value and what would the 76ers ask for. Could just Love get it done? Would it be Love + player or Love + pick?

Im in a weird middle ground of thinking just Love is not enough but including a player like Garland/Sexton/1st rounder is a overpay.

I am not adding years of overpaid salary in the middle of a rebuild when I can buyout KLove this winter. Simmons is proving to not have what it takes to win. Your idea here is not something I can agree with at all. I think if anything you inherit Philly's biggest problem going forward and give them an out.
hard pass

And they would be inheriting ours by giving Love that massive contract we cant get out of. So maybe the 2 sides are a match and the trade would be mutually beneficial for all parties. Love needs to get out to a contender and Simmons needs a full reset somewhere else.

Maybe playing somehwere out of the spotlight like Cleveland jumpstarts his career back on track.

Simmons ceiling is massively high, Im not sure the Cavs can afford to pass on that lotto ticket if its available for just Kevin Love who doesnt want to be here anyways.

[JonFromVA]

Easily would trade Love for him straight up. Love is beyond washed. Simmons offers at least huge upside and is a 'buy low' candidate that small market teams who cant attract FAs like Cleveland have to pull the trigger on.

The thing is whats his value and what would the 76ers ask for. Could just Love get it done? Would it be Love + player or Love + pick?

Im in a weird middle ground of thinking just Love is not enough but including a player like Garland/Sexton/1st rounder is a overpay.

I am not adding years of overpaid salary in the middle of a rebuild when I can buyout KLove this winter. Simmons is proving to not have what it takes to win. Your idea here is not something I can agree with at all. I think if anything you inherit Philly's biggest problem going forward and give them an out.
hard pass

And they would be inheriting ours by giving Love that massive contract we cant get out of. So maybe the 2 sides are a match and the trade would be mutually beneficial for all parties. Love needs to get out to a contender and Simmons needs a full reset somewhere else.

Maybe playing somehwere out of the spotlight like Cleveland jumpstarts his career back on track.

Simmons ceiling is massively high, Im not sure the Cavs can afford to pass on that lotto ticket if its available for just Kevin Love who doesnt want to be here anyways.

Disregard his ceiling and pretend he never learns to shoot ... Simmons has shown he can help a team win in the regular season even without Embiid, and because of that I don't think his value will drop to a swap of bad contracts. Unfortunately our young players can't guarantee even that much, so, we'd be kind of last on the list of Philly's preferred trade partners.

[LivingLegend]

I am not adding years of overpaid salary in the middle of a rebuild when I can buyout KLove this winter. Simmons is proving to not have what it takes to win. Your idea here is not something I can agree with at all. I think if anything you inherit Philly's biggest problem going forward and give them an out.
hard pass

And they would be inheriting ours by giving Love that massive contract we cant get out of. So maybe the 2 sides are a match and the trade would be mutually beneficial for all parties. Love needs to get out to a contender and Simmons needs a full reset somewhere else.

Maybe playing somehwere out of the spotlight like Cleveland jumpstarts his career back on track.

Simmons ceiling is massively high, Im not sure the Cavs can afford to pass on that lotto ticket if its available for just Kevin Love who doesnt want to be here anyways.

Disregard his ceiling and pretend he never learns to shoot ... Simmons has shown he can help a team win in the regular season even without Embiid, and because of that I don't think his value will drop to a swap of bad contracts. Unfortunately our young players can't guarantee even that much, so, we'd be kind of last on the list of Philly's preferred trade partners.

Makes sense, but what Philly needs is draft assets to flip for other players. If we give them our pick this year + Love, they could turn around and swap that pick to get a player like Kyle Lowry and then boom--all of a sudden the 76ers have Embiid/Lowry/Love which would be much better for their short term championship aspirations.

Either way though, your right and it doesnt sound like too much of a fit. I dont think the Cavs in a rebuild would be willing to give up on young players and or high draft picks for a largely unproven player.

[JonFromVA]

And they would be inheriting ours by giving Love that massive contract we cant get out of. So maybe the 2 sides are a match and the trade would be mutually beneficial for all parties. Love needs to get out to a contender and Simmons needs a full reset somewhere else.

Maybe playing somehwere out of the spotlight like Cleveland jumpstarts his career back on track.

Simmons ceiling is massively high, Im not sure the Cavs can afford to pass on that lotto ticket if its available for just Kevin Love who doesnt want to be here anyways.

Disregard his ceiling and pretend he never learns to shoot ... Simmons has shown he can help a team win in the regular season even without Embiid, and because of that I don't think his value will drop to a swap of bad contracts. Unfortunately our young players can't guarantee even that much, so, we'd be kind of last on the list of Philly's preferred trade partners.

Makes sense, but what Philly needs is draft assets to flip for other players. If we give them our pick this year + Love, they could turn around and swap that pick to get a player like Kyle Lowry and then boom--all of a sudden the 76ers have Embiid/Lowry/Love which would be much better for their short term championship aspirations.

Either way though, your right and it doesnt sound like too much of a fit. I dont think the Cavs in a rebuild would be willing to give up on young players and or high draft picks for a largely unproven player.

Lowry is a free-agent, and Philly will first explore direct trades of Simmons for proven players that fit Embiid's timeline before making things more complicated. Speaking of ... Embiid is under contract for 2 more seasons. He'll be 29 when his contract is up and if he keeps breaking down that may very well be the point his career he suffers a major drop off.

If I was Morey, I'd find out what teams would offer for Embiid too.

Simmons for McCollum sounds a lot like a classic player swap for two teams frustrated with their playoff performance.

[Stillwater]

Easily would trade Love for him straight up. Love is beyond washed. Simmons offers at least huge upside and is a 'buy low' candidate that small market teams who cant attract FAs like Cleveland have to pull the trigger on.

The thing is whats his value and what would the 76ers ask for. Could just Love get it done? Would it be Love + player or Love + pick?

Im in a weird middle ground of thinking just Love is not enough but including a player like Garland/Sexton/1st rounder is a overpay.

I am not adding years of overpaid salary in the middle of a rebuild when I can buyout KLove this winter. Simmons is proving to not have what it takes to win. Your idea here is not something I can agree with at all. I think if anything you inherit Philly's biggest problem going forward and give them an out.
hard pass

And they would be inheriting ours by giving Love that massive contract we cant get out of. So maybe the 2 sides are a match and the trade would be mutually beneficial for all parties. Love needs to get out to a contender and Simmons needs a full reset somewhere else.

Maybe playing somehwere out of the spotlight like Cleveland jumpstarts his career back on track.

Simmons ceiling is massively high, Im not sure the Cavs can afford to pass on that lotto ticket if its available for just Kevin Love who doesnt want to be here anyways.

And he has done zip to improve his shooting in game. Was a massive failure in this recent series because of it. Everyone knows he has had multiple trainers and specialists helping him with his shot and he is still afraid to shoot. The guy CAN shoot some, but REFUSES to shoot. Sorry but there is literally no upside left for him if he can't fix the space between his ears, which clearly is empty.
Greg is that you? I just listened to a caller on the FAN that sounded exactly like you do and Chico shut the caller down pretty easily.
There is just no way you can trade for somebody afraid to shoot who is paid that kind of $$$

[jbk1234]

I really struggle with fans who just watched how bad we were shooting from the outside last season suggest that we ship out Garland or Sexton for him. We were the second to worst three point team last season with Garland and Sexton. If you swapped either of them for Simmons, we'd easily become the worst.

Also, I've gone from thinking Sexton and Simmons would be a good pairing to thinking they'd be a disaster. Sexton really, really, really prefers to rely on his speed and drive to the rim. The spacing would be irreparable.

If I'm being entirely honest, I'm not sure Simmons is worth his contract. Ideally, he's a PF on a team that has a stretch 5.

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[JonFromVA]

A number of people believe Simmons needs to switch hands like Tristan did. If he was still on his rookie deal it would be worth the gamble to see if it helped, but it really didn't do too much for TT.

TT did extend his range somewhat, but his FT% indicates not much past 15ft. His FT% has regressed back to the 60% level, which maybe he could have pulled off if he'd stuck with shooting left handed.

Coincidentally, Ben Simmons is right around 60% on his free-throws as well.

[toooskies]

I really struggle with fans who just watched how bad we were shooting from the outside last season suggest that we ship out Garland or Sexton for him. We were the second to worst three point team last season with Garland and Sexton. If you swapped either of them for Simmons, we'd easily become the worst.

Also, I've gone from thinking Sexton and Simmons would be a good pairing to thinking they'd be a disaster. Sexton really, really, really prefers to rely on his speed and drive to the rim. The spacing would be irreparable.

If I'm being entirely honest, I'm not sure Simmons is worth his contract. Ideally, he's a PF on a team that has a stretch 5.

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While Sexton likes to drive, you still need to guard him at the 3-point line. The spacing should be fine when Simmons initiates. There isn't room for Sexton already when he's got Okoro + Allen in there, Simmons + Allen shouldn't be any worse.

You want Simmons guarding the best player on the other team unless it's a C, and even then you might want him on a guy like Jokic. (Maybe not Embiid, though.) On offense you can let him bring up the ball, certainly with Sexton as the lead guard. His A/TO ratio is fine and passing/playmaking is good or great. It helps being almost a foot taller than most of the guys defending you.

Simmons has a pathological avoidance of shooting inefficiently. Which is not ideal for a team like Philly with no crunch-time perimeter scorers for the end of the game but should work with Garland or Sexton. But if he knows he's a 30% 3-point shooter (or worse), yes, he's better off not shooting at all instead of putting up 3-5 shots behind the arc a game like Giannis does. He knows his limitations and sticks to them, and he saw his free throw shooting fall off a cliff (whether that's a confidence thing or an injury) so he stopped putting himself in positions to take them in the playoffs.

Let's just briefly look at the stats of Simmons from the playoffs. His on/off +/- is... +19.4 for the 2021 playoffs. (Yes, a lot of that was from the WAS series, but his +/- for the ATL series was better than the team's as well, although I don't have the exact math.) He held Trae Young to 5-23 in game 7. The guy has weaknesses that were noticeable in game 7 but let's not forget the positives. First-team All-NBA defense. Guards 1-5. Triple-double machine. Doesn't take bad shots.

So, yeah, I'll trade one of Garland or Sexton with Okoro or this year's 1st (if it isn't top 4 or so) and Love for Simmons. I'll definitely trade our young all-star hopefuls plus something for a legit young all-star. Yes, you need to put some better shooting around him, but Simmons starts creating good shots for the rest of the team too, so guys like Cedi and Dotson should bounce back to their career numbers and maybe Okoro gets better looks and turns into a league-average shooter with Simmons running the show.

Let's not overreact to one play (the passed up dunk) in one playoff series. Let's let the rest of the league overreact and get an all-star at a bargain price who knows better than anyone else what he did right and wrong in the playoffs.

[JonFromVA]

I really struggle with fans who just watched how bad we were shooting from the outside last season suggest that we ship out Garland or Sexton for him. We were the second to worst three point team last season with Garland and Sexton. If you swapped either of them for Simmons, we'd easily become the worst.

Also, I've gone from thinking Sexton and Simmons would be a good pairing to thinking they'd be a disaster. Sexton really, really, really prefers to rely on his speed and drive to the rim. The spacing would be irreparable.

If I'm being entirely honest, I'm not sure Simmons is worth his contract. Ideally, he's a PF on a team that has a stretch 5.

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While Sexton likes to drive, you still need to guard him at the 3-point line. The spacing should be fine when Simmons initiates. There isn't room for Sexton already when he's got Okoro + Allen in there, Simmons + Allen shouldn't be any worse.

You want Simmons guarding the best player on the other team unless it's a C, and even then you might want him on a guy like Jokic. (Maybe not Embiid, though.) On offense you can let him bring up the ball, certainly with Sexton as the lead guard. His A/TO ratio is fine and passing/playmaking is good or great. It helps being almost a foot taller than most of the guys defending you.

Simmons has a pathological avoidance of shooting inefficiently. Which is not ideal for a team like Philly with no crunch-time perimeter scorers for the end of the game but should work with Garland or Sexton. But if he knows he's a 30% 3-point shooter (or worse), yes, he's better off not shooting at all instead of putting up 3-5 shots behind the arc a game like Giannis does. He knows his limitations and sticks to them, and he saw his free throw shooting fall off a cliff (whether that's a confidence thing or an injury) so he stopped putting himself in positions to take them in the playoffs.

Let's just briefly look at the stats of Simmons from the playoffs. His on/off +/- is... +19.4 for the 2021 playoffs. (Yes, a lot of that was from the WAS series, but his +/- for the ATL series was better than the team's as well, although I don't have the exact math.) He held Trae Young to 5-23 in game 7. The guy has weaknesses that were noticeable in game 7 but let's not forget the positives. First-team All-NBA defense. Guards 1-5. Triple-double machine. Doesn't take bad shots.

So, yeah, I'll trade one of Garland or Sexton with Okoro or this year's 1st (if it isn't top 4 or so) and Love for Simmons. I'll definitely trade our young all-star hopefuls plus something for a legit young all-star. Yes, you need to put some better shooting around him, but Simmons starts creating good shots for the rest of the team too, so guys like Cedi and Dotson should bounce back to their career numbers and maybe Okoro gets better looks and turns into a league-average shooter with Simmons running the show.

Let's not overreact to one play (the passed up dunk) in one playoff series. Let's let the rest of the league overreact and get an all-star at a bargain price who knows better than anyone else what he did right and wrong in the playoffs.

Is Simmons actually any good at running a half court offense?

When it mattered most, Philly was running their offense through Embiid and was trying Maxey.

I think a team is going to have be very careful how they choose to build around Ben, and we're just not a good fit. We don't have a roster ready to plug him in, and we don't have trade assets that are going to help Philly contend at a higher level without Ben.

[KuruptedCav]

I don’t think you can add Simmons by sending shooting out.

I’d go Prince, Okoro, Osman, and 2022 FRP assuming the ping pong go against tonight.

The only reason I’d want Simmons is to play Point Forward on offense and free safety on Defense.

Give me: Allen/Love/Simmons/Sexton/Garland with Nance as my 6th man and I’d tune in to watch. But that tax bill…


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[JonFromVA]

I don’t think you can add Simmons by sending shooting out.

I’d go Prince, Okoro, Osman, and 2022 FRP assuming the ping pong go against tonight.

The only reason I’d want Simmons is to play Point Forward on offense and free safety on Defense.

Give me: Allen/Love/Simmons/Sexton/Garland with Nance as my 6th man and I’d tune in to watch. But that tax bill…

I get Simmons would move the needle, but even forgetting about the money I think I'd rather try my luck with Okoro and our first rounder. We can have another creator in the lineup, but he has to be able to play off the ball, or what the heck are Garland/Sexton doing besides watching Ben or having to beat their man, Ben's man, and Jarrett's man every time they try to drive?

And on the flip side, did you aggregate enough salary to match Simmons and his trade kicker? And what does our poo-poo platter do for Philly when they want to continue to contend? They'd either need to move our pieces in a 3-way or toss a season while some of those contracts expire and they can go shopping in free-agency.

Anyway, I think the topic is worth discussing, but I think we'd need to move a lot more pieces around for Simmons to make any sense on the Cavs.

[KuruptedCav]

I don’t think you can add Simmons by sending shooting out.

I’d go Prince, Okoro, Osman, and 2022 FRP assuming the ping pong go against tonight.

The only reason I’d want Simmons is to play Point Forward on offense and free safety on Defense.

Give me: Allen/Love/Simmons/Sexton/Garland with Nance as my 6th man and I’d tune in to watch. But that tax bill…

I get Simmons would move the needle, but even forgetting about the money I think I'd rather try my luck with Okoro and our first rounder. We can have another creator in the lineup, but he has to be able to play off the ball, or what the heck are Garland/Sexton doing besides watching Ben or having to beat their man, Ben's man, and Jarrett's man every time they try to drive?

And on the flip side, did you aggregate enough salary to match Simmons and his trade kicker? And what does our poo-poo platter do for Philly when they want to continue to contend? They'd either need to move our pieces in a 3-way or toss a season while some of those contracts expire and they can go shopping in free-agency.

Anyway, I think the topic is worth discussing, but I think we'd need to move a lot more pieces around for Simmons to make any sense on the Cavs.

I don’t think you can add Simmons by sending shooting out.

I’d go Prince, Okoro, Osman, and 2022 FRP assuming the ping pong go against tonight.

The only reason I’d want Simmons is to play Point Forward on offense and free safety on Defense.

Give me: Allen/Love/Simmons/Sexton/Garland with Nance as my 6th man and I’d tune in to watch. But that tax bill…

I get Simmons would move the needle, but even forgetting about the money I think I'd rather try my luck with Okoro and our first rounder. We can have another creator in the lineup, but he has to be able to play off the ball, or what the heck are Garland/Sexton doing besides watching Ben or having to beat their man, Ben's man, and Jarrett's man every time they try to drive?

And on the flip side, did you aggregate enough salary to match Simmons and his trade kicker? And what does our poo-poo platter do for Philly when they want to continue to contend? They'd either need to move our pieces in a 3-way or toss a season while some of those contracts expire and they can go shopping in free-agency.

Anyway, I think the topic is worth discussing, but I think we'd need to move a lot more pieces around for Simmons to make any sense on the Cavs.

I would expect Garland, Sexton and Love would need to learn to play off the ball and take more 3pt shots. With Simmons and Love at the forward positions and Garland in the backcourt, there should be enough ball movement to get them open.

I don’t know if I aggregated enough. It worked this year in the trade machine, I didn’t do the maths.

Im not saying it’s a good idea or that it’s work. Just that you need the shooters to work. Similar to the way the Suns, Nets and Mavs tried to build around Jason Kidd.

… any scenario is dependent on Ben learning to shoot a free throw. Worth talking about because Cleveland and talent…

Okoro or pick gets themLowry?

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[NatiboyB]

I would definitely take him on this team. I’m sure most will disagree but we are a smaller market with a less rabid fan base. And he’s tied into his contract. But I’m sure we don’t have what the 76ers want.

And yes I would give up Sexton with Love for Ben.