Doc out!!!!!!!!!

[Clemenza]

Doc should've sat out a year or two before jumping back into the mix like he did. I know Philly was a good fit for him on paper as they already had star players in place which is what he likes but the same issues crept up as the lights got brighter despite him having the better team. The same blown leads, adjustments/certain players needing to sit, another nepotism angle at his disposal -even though Curry played pretty well but couldn't defend, etc. Of course Simmons gets alot of the blame and also low key Embiid is still never in good shape but the fact that Doc keeps finding himself in these same situations over and over and over again if finally rearing its ugly head.

The issue with Doc is his ego. That he has this huge ego can be attributed to the fact that he has powerful friends in the media. He's built great relationships while in the media booth and they've been carrying this label of a "great coach" for Doc. Not even their criticism really sounds like criticism.
The only criticism offered was a very thinly veiled one be Kenny Smith last night. He said a coach can never give him (Smith) confidence but he can sure take it away. Maybe he was alluding to the Doc and Ben Simmons situation.
Over the years, Doc has heard nothing but praises for him. He thinks with his BLM activism, he's now Teflon coated.
Even SVG who is otherwise so outspoken will only murmur or whisper about this or that pertaining to Doc. You'd think Doc and not PJ or Pop are the best coaches ever to coach this game.
Sad but true.

Facts.. only thing now is that his media friends can't cover for him this time around. People covered for the bubble incident and he had a fresh new start in Philly and now he's right back into a whole new firestorm-meltdown territory all over again. He's fully exposed now. No sweet talk or schmoozing can fix this latest mess he's in

[NippySudz]

it's amazing. I for sure thought, Doc would receive a lot of flack from the media come monday morning, but it didn't happen. Once again, Doc manages to scoop under the radar and deflect blames to his players and the media actually accepts this answer. Its unbelievable and very frustrating that Doc can continue getting away with coaching malpractice and not have to answer for it.

Doc was getting roasted by the media earlier in the series for blowing those leads, though. That's already more criticism than he ever faced before this year.

Yes I posted a compilation of it but it wasn't a roast. It was posed more as a question than roasting. Like is doc responsible? He has all these collapses. If doc fails, we're going to have this have the conversation

Then the fail happens and like clockwork, people look at Ben Simmons as the scapegoat. Doc throws Ben under the bus. Embiid doing it also didn't help Simmons case.

They had an 18 pt lead and like a 26pt lead. Ben Simmons is not responsible for those collapses. Ben Simmons is not responsible for keeping himself in the game during hack a Ben.

They only won game 6 because Ben was in foul trouble. A gift from the refs unintentionally because had he not been in foul trouble, doc would have kept him in with hack a Ben.

So no they didn't really roast doc. They question if he was the problem when the leads were blown and ultimately concluded that Ben Simmons was the scapegoat.

Had this been coach bud, coach bud would catch slander all week.

Brett Brown did much better with the collective talent he had on the sixers than doc rivers.

Brett Brown can say he lost to kawhi on a last second shot. No shame in that. Kawhi was on another level.

Doc lost to Kevin huerter abusing curry in the post and Trae going 5-23 with six turn overs.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk

[NippySudz]

Doc should've sat out a year or two before jumping back into the mix like he did. I know Philly was a good fit for him on paper as they already had star players in place which is what he likes but the same issues crept up as the lights got brighter despite him having the better team. The same blown leads, adjustments/certain players needing to sit, another nepotism angle at his disposal -even though Curry played pretty well but couldn't defend, etc. Of course Simmons gets alot of the blame and also low key Embiid is still never in good shape but the fact that Doc keeps finding himself in these same situations over and over and over again if finally rearing its ugly head.

The issue with Doc is his ego. That he has this huge ego can be attributed to the fact that he has powerful friends in the media. He's built great relationships while in the media booth and they've been carrying this label of a "great coach" for Doc. Not even their criticism really sounds like criticism.
The only criticism offered was a very thinly veiled one be Kenny Smith last night. He said a coach can never give him (Smith) confidence but he can sure take it away. Maybe he was alluding to the Doc and Ben Simmons situation.
Over the years, Doc has heard nothing but praises for him. He thinks with his BLM activism, he's now Teflon coated.
Even SVG who is otherwise so outspoken will only murmur or whisper about this or that pertaining to Doc. You'd think Doc and not PJ or Pop are the best coaches ever to coach this game.
Sad but true.

I really don't get your issue with blm like that to make it into a negative thing. I guess you are on the other side of the politic spectrum.

In any case, I don't agree with that part but I agree with the rest of it that doc is a politician. I don't believe doc is involved in any activism. He's just a good orator who buys a lot of time with that whether it's on social issues or just being accessible to the media. Most coaches hate talking to the media but he always feeds them a tidbit or one line they can make a story off of. He's very charismatic in that sense.

The reality is he's a bad coach. An overrated coach. I think he's a slime ball only basing that part on what he says after losses. He'll back a guy the whole year like pg, like Simmons, then at the first moment of opportunity throw him under the bus. He reminds me of slimy evangelical preachers.

I get why Joel embiid threw him under the bus. He's been there for years. I don't agree with it but I understand his genuine frustration. Doc on the other hand was calculative. He knew what he was doing throwing Ben Simmons underneath the bus. He was trying to deflect blame and make the story about Ben while he snuck out the backdoor unscathed.

That to me makes him a low character of a man.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk

[NippySudz]

Doc should've sat out a year or two before jumping back into the mix like he did. I know Philly was a good fit for him on paper as they already had star players in place which is what he likes but the same issues crept up as the lights got brighter despite him having the better team. The same blown leads, adjustments/certain players needing to sit, another nepotism angle at his disposal -even though Curry played pretty well but couldn't defend, etc. Of course Simmons gets alot of the blame and also low key Embiid is still never in good shape but the fact that Doc keeps finding himself in these same situations over and over and over again if finally rearing its ugly head.

The issue with Doc is his ego. That he has this huge ego can be attributed to the fact that he has powerful friends in the media. He's built great relationships while in the media booth and they've been carrying this label of a "great coach" for Doc. Not even their criticism really sounds like criticism.
The only criticism offered was a very thinly veiled one be Kenny Smith last night. He said a coach can never give him (Smith) confidence but he can sure take it away. Maybe he was alluding to the Doc and Ben Simmons situation.
Over the years, Doc has heard nothing but praises for him. He thinks with his BLM activism, he's now Teflon coated.
Even SVG who is otherwise so outspoken will only murmur or whisper about this or that pertaining to Doc. You'd think Doc and not PJ or Pop are the best coaches ever to coach this game.
Sad but true.

Facts.. only thing now is that his media friends can't cover for him this time around. People covered for the bubble incident and he had a fresh new start in Philly and now he's right back into a whole new firestorm-meltdown territory all over again. He's fully exposed now. No sweet talk or schmoozing can fix this latest mess he's in

They are covering for him. Last week they questioned doc. This week it's all Ben Simmons fault. Doc's blame has been completely glossed over. The only guy I saw that said they should have a discussion about firing doc was Chris broussard and even he said he personally wouldn't fire doc but they need to have the discussion


Everyone else focused on Simmons. Doc got away again. Like a bandit in the night.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk

[Clemenza]

The issue with Doc is his ego. That he has this huge ego can be attributed to the fact that he has powerful friends in the media. He's built great relationships while in the media booth and they've been carrying this label of a "great coach" for Doc. Not even their criticism really sounds like criticism.
The only criticism offered was a very thinly veiled one be Kenny Smith last night. He said a coach can never give him (Smith) confidence but he can sure take it away. Maybe he was alluding to the Doc and Ben Simmons situation.
Over the years, Doc has heard nothing but praises for him. He thinks with his BLM activism, he's now Teflon coated.
Even SVG who is otherwise so outspoken will only murmur or whisper about this or that pertaining to Doc. You'd think Doc and not PJ or Pop are the best coaches ever to coach this game.
Sad but true.

Facts.. only thing now is that his media friends can't cover for him this time around. People covered for the bubble incident and he had a fresh new start in Philly and now he's right back into a whole new firestorm-meltdown territory all over again. He's fully exposed now. No sweet talk or schmoozing can fix this latest mess he's in

They are covering for him. Last week they questioned doc. This week it's all Ben Simmons fault. Doc's blame has been completely glossed over. The only guy I saw that said they should have a discussion about firing doc was Chris broussard and even he said he personally wouldn't fire doc but they need to have the discussion


Everyone else focused on Simmons. Doc got away again. Like a bandit in the night.

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Nah all the fans online are on both Simmons and Doc. Sirius XM- NBA Radio is ripping Doc hardcore all day long. Twitter is killing Doc. First Take and Undisputed went light on him although though Skip ripped him good this morning. Nah he's not safe and in the clear right now at all.

[MartinToVaught]

I get why Joel embiid threw him under the bus.

I wouldn't be surprised if Joel was speaking for the whole team when he aired out Simmons (although, in fairness, the full quote also shows that Embiid took responsibility for his own mistakes too). Doc has caused resentment in the locker room everywhere he's gone by playing favorites, and he was coddling Simmons all year. It's probably frustrating as hell for the rest of the team to see Doc compare the most useless player on the roster to Magic, just like it frustrated Lob City when Doc used to gush about Austin's defense to the media.

[NickP]

Doc should've sat out a year or two before jumping back into the mix like he did. I know Philly was a good fit for him on paper as they already had star players in place which is what he likes but the same issues crept up as the lights got brighter despite him having the better team. The same blown leads, adjustments/certain players needing to sit, another nepotism angle at his disposal -even though Curry played pretty well but couldn't defend, etc. Of course Simmons gets alot of the blame and also low key Embiid is still never in good shape but the fact that Doc keeps finding himself in these same situations over and over and over again if finally rearing its ugly head.

The issue with Doc is his ego. That he has this huge ego can be attributed to the fact that he has powerful friends in the media. He's built great relationships while in the media booth and they've been carrying this label of a "great coach" for Doc. Not even their criticism really sounds like criticism.
The only criticism offered was a very thinly veiled one be Kenny Smith last night. He said a coach can never give him (Smith) confidence but he can sure take it away. Maybe he was alluding to the Doc and Ben Simmons situation.
Over the years, Doc has heard nothing but praises for him. He thinks with his BLM activism, he's now Teflon coated.
Even SVG who is otherwise so outspoken will only murmur or whisper about this or that pertaining to Doc. You'd think Doc and not PJ or Pop are the best coaches ever to coach this game.
Sad but true.

I really don't get your issue with blm like that to make it into a negative thing. I guess you are on the other side of the politic spectrum.

In any case, I don't agree with that part but I agree with the rest of it that doc is a politician. I don't believe doc is involved in any activism. He's just a good orator who buys a lot of time with that whether it's on social issues or just being accessible to the media. Most coaches hate talking to the media but he always feeds them a tidbit or one line they can make a story off of. He's very charismatic in that sense.

The reality is he's a bad coach. An overrated coach. I think he's a slime ball only basing that part on what he says after losses. He'll back a guy the whole year like pg, like Simmons, then at the first moment of opportunity throw him under the bus. He reminds me of slimy evangelical preachers.

I get why Joel embiid threw him under the bus. He's been there for years. I don't agree with it but I understand his genuine frustration. Doc on the other hand was calculative. He knew what he was doing throwing Ben Simmons underneath the bus. He was trying to deflect blame and make the story about Ben while he snuck out the backdoor unscathed.

That to me makes him a low character of a man.

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I am not alluding to anything political in nature. It doesn't belong in sports. What I was trying to say is Doc became this voice for the players in the bubble at the height of BLM protests. While that gave him more credibility as a voice of the cause, it sort of protected him from the bad coach label.

[NippySudz]

Facts.. only thing now is that his media friends can't cover for him this time around. People covered for the bubble incident and he had a fresh new start in Philly and now he's right back into a whole new firestorm-meltdown territory all over again. He's fully exposed now. No sweet talk or schmoozing can fix this latest mess he's in

They are covering for him. Last week they questioned doc. This week it's all Ben Simmons fault. Doc's blame has been completely glossed over. The only guy I saw that said they should have a discussion about firing doc was Chris broussard and even he said he personally wouldn't fire doc but they need to have the discussion


Everyone else focused on Simmons. Doc got away again. Like a bandit in the night.

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Nah all the fans online are on both Simmons and Doc. Sirius XM- NBA Radio is ripping Doc hardcore all day long. Twitter is killing Doc. First Take and Undisputed went light on him although though Skip ripped him good this morning. Nah he's not safe and in the clear right now at all.

I haven't seen what you saw. Skip didn't rip him, skip said he was to blame then moved on and tried to blame embiid of all people and saying he doesn't have a high pain tolerance to play through a torn meniscus

Even though Embiid had to be averaging like 30.

They went light on Doc. The perception of Doc is intact. They can put out the stats, his wins and his losses. That's not the same as saying Doc should be in the hot seat. Doc is a terrible coach. Doc is overrated, etc. They are tip toeing around that.

What fans say don't matter. Otherwise Doc would have been gone a long time ago. Fans are vocal minorities. Anything can go viral on social media. Ben simmons is catching more flack than Doc rivers. Check out the general board, check out sixers subreddit if you're on reddit, check out philly media. He's not getting the fair share of the blame. Most of the attention is on that one open dunk he turned down because embiid and doc put that focus there in their press conference.

This was last week:

How do they go from questioning Doc to just flat out ignoring him and blaming ben simmons? This week is not even remotely close to last week's questioning criticisms. He got away with it.

[Quake Griffin]

The BLM thing was obvious.

Doc has never been at the forefront of these issues. Never heard him speak out on any other issues. I think even the Sterling issue had him say "why is the pressure on us for our response? We weren't racist" (paraphrased). Now all of a sudden, he is a spokesman for black issues. LMAO. It's another way to make him marketable as a woke/ pro black coach....another way to make him unfireable.

Glad Ballmer saw through it.
Philly didn't.

[NippySudz]

The issue with Doc is his ego. That he has this huge ego can be attributed to the fact that he has powerful friends in the media. He's built great relationships while in the media booth and they've been carrying this label of a "great coach" for Doc. Not even their criticism really sounds like criticism.
The only criticism offered was a very thinly veiled one be Kenny Smith last night. He said a coach can never give him (Smith) confidence but he can sure take it away. Maybe he was alluding to the Doc and Ben Simmons situation.
Over the years, Doc has heard nothing but praises for him. He thinks with his BLM activism, he's now Teflon coated.
Even SVG who is otherwise so outspoken will only murmur or whisper about this or that pertaining to Doc. You'd think Doc and not PJ or Pop are the best coaches ever to coach this game.
Sad but true.

I really don't get your issue with blm like that to make it into a negative thing. I guess you are on the other side of the politic spectrum.

In any case, I don't agree with that part but I agree with the rest of it that doc is a politician. I don't believe doc is involved in any activism. He's just a good orator who buys a lot of time with that whether it's on social issues or just being accessible to the media. Most coaches hate talking to the media but he always feeds them a tidbit or one line they can make a story off of. He's very charismatic in that sense.

The reality is he's a bad coach. An overrated coach. I think he's a slime ball only basing that part on what he says after losses. He'll back a guy the whole year like pg, like Simmons, then at the first moment of opportunity throw him under the bus. He reminds me of slimy evangelical preachers.

I get why Joel embiid threw him under the bus. He's been there for years. I don't agree with it but I understand his genuine frustration. Doc on the other hand was calculative. He knew what he was doing throwing Ben Simmons underneath the bus. He was trying to deflect blame and make the story about Ben while he snuck out the backdoor unscathed.

That to me makes him a low character of a man.

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I am not alluding to anything political in nature. It doesn't belong in sports. What I was trying to say is Doc became this voice for the players in the bubble at the height of BLM protests. While that gave him more credibility as a voice of the cause, it sort of protected him from the bad coach label.

Politics will always be a par of sport. You can't really deny this. There are people that come from different backgrounds that will have a platform. It's always interesting how politics in sports really just refers to something one person agrees with. If its the other way around, its "it doesn't belong in sports"

But I do agree with you, he took advantage of that opportunity to make himself look good. He milked that and made it look good for him. We never seen Doc involved in anything politically wise. Never on the forefront of political issues. I never see doc put his money where his mouth is or boots on the ground like some other nba players have done. It's just all lip service.

I don't know how he continues to get away with this. I don't think he's getting away with it because of good speeches. I think its relationships with the media, I think there's something we don't know that he knows. Maybe Doc being Doc has connections that we are not privy too. Some guys behind the scenes, because its really ridiculous.

I turned on the tv this morning and Ben simmons was the story. Doc was barely an afterthought. Barely. He was mentioned in passing in much of the talking points. Is it because Doc doesn't draw ratings as much as sh-tting on ben simmons or is there the protection?

Ty Lue couldn't even get a JOB after Lebron Left. He was typecasted as a LeBron b-tchboy essentially. Lakers offered him a deal to tie him to LeBron. He had to run back to doc to get an asst coaching job. Both Doc and Lue are champions. But it's DOC that has a job hours after getting fired by the clippers despite he's failed more times recently and Ty lue has actually been more successful recently. I don't get it.

[NippySudz]

The BLM thing was obvious.

Doc has never been at the forefront of these issues. Never heard him speak out on any other issues. I think even the Sterling issue had him say "why is the pressure on us for our response? We weren't racist" (paraphrased). Now all of a sudden, he is a spokesman for black issues. LMAO. It's another way to make him marketable as a woke/ pro black coach....another way to make him unfireable.

Glad Ballmer saw through it.
Philly didn't.

That's true. I can see teh clippers keeping him there during that transitional period for political reasons, but outside of that, he should have been gone way earlier. I don't believe the media when they talk about Kawhi came here for Doc. I believe that's BS. I use to believe it but I truly believe Kawhi would have came to the clippers anyway as long he was playing for a champion headcoach. If billups would have gotten the job, he would have came over.

[NippySudz]

Read on Twitter

They're sleeping just good a year later, Shannon

[nickhx2]

why's shannon so upset lmao

[NippySudz]

why's shannon so upset lmao

theatrics if I were to guess.

I posted the other video about the blame for the sixers game 5 collaspe, Skip brings up doc and he just smirks. He assigned no blame to doc for the collapse of game 5. A lot of the media doesn't want to blame doc. Last week, it was just skating around the issue, mentioning doc but still saying the series is not over, so lets not jump to conclusions, but if doc loses this series, this will look bad on him only to later forget about that point and put it on simmons entirely, because of one missed dunk. They were leading the game when seth curry went out. The atlanta hawks only scored 1 point when seth was out in that stretch. When seth came back, atlanta proceeded to score 13 points.

Doc being the whore for people who could score the ball(and can't defend), he couldn't help it. They were making progress with the group he had out there and he puts in seth curry to get bullied by huerter, a recipe of diaster that happened all night long. he couldn't help himself.

[nickhx2]

the issue is and always will be that the casual fan doesn't know enough about any given sport, such that they are able to differentiate and properly assign blame/responsibility.

you basically have to be atrocious with with clock management and timeouts, or to have made one clearly egregious decision, to get blame as a coach. and that's because it's gotta be something that's easily understandable, since the casual fan won't understand things beyond basic rotations. the extreme minority of people on this board, let alone fans in general, have an idea of deeper strategies and tactics.

players are much, much, much easier to assign blame though, because if they have a bad performance it shows up in the stat sheet. if you miss a critical FT, you see it with your own eyes.

[NippySudz]

the issue is and always will be that the casual fan doesn't know enough about any given sport, such that they are able to differentiate and properly assign blame/responsibility.

you basically have to be atrocious with with clock management and timeouts, or to have made one clearly egregious decision, to get blame as a coach. and that's because it's gotta be something that's easily understandable, since the casual fan won't understand things beyond basic rotations. the extreme minority of people on this board, let alone fans in general, have an idea of deeper strategies and tactics.

players are much, much, much easier to assign blame though, because if they have a bad performance it shows up in the stat sheet. if you miss a critical FT, you see it with your own eyes.

That's true. That's kinda adds to the point I was trying to make to clemenza. Going viral means nothing. Social media doesn't have as much of an influence as sometime it portrays itself to be.

Doc went viral for losing last night. I say this respectfully, but so what? There are alot of good coaches that go viral for losing and get called to get fired and so forth. It's not until mainstream media puts the emphasis on it are they really in the hotseat or not.

It's weird that mainstream media has that much of an influence to some degree. But I guess it circles back to what I said, not everyone is online, so the perception isn't ruined. I experienced this when I went to a pro-wrestling show on Monday night. A ppv concluded and it was the moments went viral. I asked several people there did they watch the ppv, the night before the show? I figured if you're spending money, you're gonna watch the show even if you illegal stream it.

I have to tell you, everyone I asked did not watch the show. Not a single person. They just bought their tickets when they thought John Cena was coming into town(he was not there that night). That was a few years back. That's when I realize, social media isn't as big as I think it is.

I bet if you go out in the street and ask if Doc rivers or coach bud should be fired, the average person would say no, they didn't do anything wrong but as you mentioned, they can't see strategy, they just see ben missing. So its easier to sell.

[LamarWho]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31681488/philadelphia-76ers-plan-address-ben-simmons-shooting-woes-doc-rivers-says

Monday, Rivers tried to backtrack a bit, repeatedly saying he believes in Simmons and has confidence he can make the necessary improvements to help the Sixers shake off the devastating disappointment that was losing this series after finishing the regular season with the best record in the Eastern Conference.

"I am positive in Ben," Rivers said. "I'm very bullish on Ben still. But there's work. There's work. There is. And Ben will be willing to do it. Sometimes you have to go through stuff to see it, and be honest with it.

"Obviously what Ben just went through ... I can't imagine that. Because he has so much greatness in all the things around him that he does, and there's areas he can fix quickly, in my opinion, and get better, that will take him to another level. And, you know, sometimes you don't know why you're in different places, you know what I mean? But this may be one of them, and I look at this as a great challenge, but definitely a doable one."

====================================================

Father Doc has spoken again. Ben is forgiven. Father Doc will not give up on the most hated player in the league now, Father Doc will make Ben great again.

[esqtvd]

Having followed them all year--and I listen to the brutal WIP in Philadelphia--all I can say is Doc fell on his sword for Ben all year. I got context up the wazoo. They've been after Ben in Philly EVERY SUMMER to get his game together. And after the Hawks started Hack-a-Shaq, Ben collapsed--not only refusing to shoot but RUNNING AWAY FROM THE BALL--turning his back to the ballhandler.

Ben let him down bigtime. Doc is furious and has a right to be. I'M furious--I couldn't believe what I was seeing tonight. If last year's Clipper collapse was gutless [it was], Ben's was on another level. PG kept firing.

That he sent a tiny shot across Ben's bow is not only right but necessary. The consensus in the sports media AND IN PHILLY is to dump Ben yesterday. And meanwhile, Doc [and Barkley lol] got Embiid finally realizing his potential, and the Sixers won the #1 seed after getting SWEPT by a dysfunctional Celtics team last year in the FIRST ROUND with virtually the same roster.


People are entitled to their snickers but these are the facts. I had no faith in this team and they're my hometown team. Doc got the maximum out of Timid Tobias and Seth Curry, and the rest of the roster was kids and past-their-primes like Howard, Mike Scott and...wait for it, GM geniuses lol...George Hill, who was less than zero.

Daryl Morey is the one who has work to do. Or Ben come in and says, ok Doc, we'll play it your way.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-playoffs-ben-simmons-passes-025715806.html

Ben Simmons might've just played his way out of favor in Philadelphia, for good.

Simmons disappeared in a jarring way during the Sixers' seven-game series against the Hawks, refusing to shoot the ball and looking tentative in a way we've never seen before. He seemed afraid of scoring.

And those problems reached a head in Game 7 on Sunday night, when Simmons made the most inexcusable decision I've ever seen on a basketball court.

With 3:30 to go in the fourth quarter and the Sixers trailing by two, Simmons spun off Danilo Gallinari and found himself wide open on the right side of the hoop. Trae Young started to help off his man, but Ben Simmons is Ben Simmons and Trae Young is Trae Young.

Here's what Simmons did:


Unacceptable.

I've been a big Simmons fan for a long time. I like the way he pushes the pace, I love his creativity and vision on fastbreaks, and I love his defensive tenacity. There's so much to like.

But this is the final straw on his reluctance to be an offensive force. It's inexcusable.

Sixers fans couldn't believe what they'd seen

Doc took the fall for Kahwi and PG's record collapse last year. Damned if he'll do it again for Ben Simmons, who let him down much worse.

Come on TVD. The Sixers didn't hire Doc to see Simmons not progress and/or regress.

The media is no longer covering for Doc. His career is being re-examined now. His one title gave him cover because he was the first black coach since K.C. Jones to win an NBA Title. The media wasn't going to tarnish what he accomplished even when signs indicated he was overrated. He was protected from scrutiny. Now, with black coaches leading 3 of the 4 Conference Finals teams and Doc's team choking again, Doc has lost his protection from media scrutiny. He is getting taken to task now because people are looking back at his past failures. Here is what is getting examined:

1. 5 Game 7 playoff losses at home (most of coach)
2. Losing 3 of 4 Home games with #1 seeded team
3. Huge leads blown when control of the series a was moments away
4. Similarities between this collapse and the two prior collapses over the last 6 seasons

His former teammate Olden Polynice has called him out for living off the one Title .

I found this article which made me look up some things I didn't realize: https://www.nba.com/clippers/news/doc-rivers-talks-clippers - The Article is from the season prior to Doc getting hired. Doc mentions how good the Clippers D was. So, I looked it up and compared:

2012-2013 Clips (Del Negro) - Opponents PPG - 4th, D Rating - 8th, Net Rating 3rd (+7.1)
2013-2014 Clips (Doc) - Opponents PPG - 14th , D Rating - 9th, Net Rating 2nd (+7.2)
2014-2015 Clips (Doc) - Opponents PPG - 16th, D Rating - 15th, Net Rating 2nd (+6.9)
2015-2016 Clips (Doc) - Opponents PPG - 7th, D Rating - 6th, Net Rating 6th (+4.4)
2016-2017 Clips (Doc) - Opponents PPG - 12th, D Rating - 12th, Net Rating 4th (+4.5)
2017-2018 Clips (Doc) - Opponents PPG - 24th, D Rating - 20th, Net Rating 18th (+0.0)
2018-2019 Clips (Doc) - Opponents PPG - 25th, D Rating - 21st, Net Rating 13th (+0.8)
2019-2020 Clips (Doc) - Opponents PPG - 13th, D Rating - 5th, Net Rating 2nd (+6.3)
2020-2021 Clips (Lue) - Opponents PPG - 4th, D Rating - 8th, Net Rating 2nd (+6.4)

Interpret those numbers how you want, but it doesn't appear Doc made this team better defensively than when Del Negro was the coach. Sure, the offensive rating went up, but the net rating never truly improved. Score more give up more.

Very VALID facts, my compliments Straight off I thought Del Negro was unfairly treated--at least by history. There is rumor Vinnie was dumped because of his race [!], but if you run the numbers from that season, that was the year a veteran Clippers squad [Ronny Turiaf, lol] terrorized young NBA squads with a 17-game win streak in December but played .500 ball after the All-Star break and fizzled in the playoffs. The season Off/Def stats are NOT probative.


But my argument is not that Doc is a great coach, only that he's no worse than some of the best names in the business who just got kicked to the curb--say, Rick Carlisle? And word has it Budenholzer would have been dumped if Durant had hit that shot instead of airballing it. Instead he could end up leading a parade in Milwaukee.

I blame players first. And credit them first. We loved Dr. J in Philly but it was Moses who led us to the promised land.


As for Doc, in the media I've seen and heard, the blame is going where it belongs, on Simmons. Especially in Philly--which knows the org has BEGGED Ben to get his game together for YEARS. This is what Doc meant about getting "into the gym."

To cut to the chase here--to steer this back ON TOPIC [Clippers]--I think PG came in last year with his head up his ass, and after humiliating himself as "Pandemic P," came back for this season with his personal life sorted, and a commitment to both his game and his role as a team leader.

For which--FTR--I praised PG from DAY ONE although I was still furious with him for his playoff choke and subsequent weak alibis. And without his humiliation last year, IMO there's no way he would have got it together like he has. PG plays hard, he plays hurt, he plays well, he leads. If you look, I've been on his team all year while others slimed him. Even when he had bad streaks he was giving everything he had, in any way he could.

If you heard Doc today, the message is the same: After humiliating himself in front of the ENTIRE basketball world the way Pandemic P did, Ben has GOT to get his shi*t together. Will this humiliation turn the light on? He was 24, a 3-time All-Star, max contracted and was banging Kylie Jenner. Why change?

Like PG did. The coach is only a coach. Simmons makes the same money as PG--you put THIS YEAR'S Paul George on the Sixers instead of Simmons and there's a parade on Broad Street in July. There nothing ANY coach could have done for Paul last year or Ben this year. The answers lie within.

[MartinToVaught]

Re the latter argument I would simply say Del Negro was unfairly treated.

Vinny was not unfairly treated.

He was a disaster in Chicago, known mostly for getting in a literal fight with his GM, ignoring a strict minutes limit that the doctors recommended for an injured Joakim Noah, getting his players' names wrong, and blowing a 35-point lead in a loss to the Kings. (Despite all that, he still took Doc's Celtics to 7 games in the first round one of those years).

With the Clippers, he wasn't much better. He bragged about running the "Chris Paul Offense" and his idea of guarding the three was stomping and yelling on the sidelines. If I recall correctly, the front office polled all the players after the Grizzlies reverse swept us, and they all wanted him gone.

There's a reason he works for NBA TV now and nobody ever mentions him for coaching jobs anymore.

[esqtvd]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31681488/philadelphia-76ers-plan-address-ben-simmons-shooting-woes-doc-rivers-says

Monday, Rivers tried to backtrack a bit, repeatedly saying he believes in Simmons and has confidence he can make the necessary improvements to help the Sixers shake off the devastating disappointment that was losing this series after finishing the regular season with the best record in the Eastern Conference.

"I am positive in Ben," Rivers said. "I'm very bullish on Ben still. But there's work. There's work. There is. And Ben will be willing to do it. Sometimes you have to go through stuff to see it, and be honest with it.

"Obviously what Ben just went through ... I can't imagine that. Because he has so much greatness in all the things around him that he does, and there's areas he can fix quickly, in my opinion, and get better, that will take him to another level. And, you know, sometimes you don't know why you're in different places, you know what I mean? But this may be one of them, and I look at this as a great challenge, but definitely a doable one."

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Father Doc has spoken again. Ben is forgiven. Father Doc will not give up on the most hated player in the league now, Father Doc will make Ben great again.

Ben is forgiven...unless Morey trades him, like he tried to do to get Harden. [Houston's owner pulled out they say.]

FTR I think Doc said the same thing today he said yesterday. It's on Ben. The rest is talk.