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Doc out!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#321 » by esqtvd » Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:48 am

NippySudz wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:the issue is and always will be that the casual fan doesn't know enough about any given sport, such that they are able to differentiate and properly assign blame/responsibility.

you basically have to be atrocious with with clock management and timeouts, or to have made one clearly egregious decision, to get blame as a coach. and that's because it's gotta be something that's easily understandable, since the casual fan won't understand things beyond basic rotations. the extreme minority of people on this board, let alone fans in general, have an idea of deeper strategies and tactics.

players are much, much, much easier to assign blame though, because if they have a bad performance it shows up in the stat sheet. if you miss a critical FT, you see it with your own eyes.

That's true. That's kinda adds to the point I was trying to make to clemenza. Going viral means nothing. Social media doesn't have as much of an influence as sometime it portrays itself to be.

Doc went viral for losing last night. I say this respectfully, but so what? There are alot of good coaches that go viral for losing and get called to get fired and so forth. It's not until mainstream media puts the emphasis on it are they really in the hotseat or not.

It's weird that mainstream media has that much of an influence to some degree. But I guess it circles back to what I said, not everyone is online, so the perception isn't ruined. I experienced this when I went to a pro-wrestling show on Monday night. A ppv concluded and it was the moments went viral. I asked several people there did they watch the ppv, the night before the show? I figured if you're spending money, you're gonna watch the show even if you illegal stream it.

I have to tell you, everyone I asked did not watch the show. Not a single person. They just bought their tickets when they thought John Cena was coming into town(he was not there that night). That was a few years back. That's when I realize, social media isn't as big as I think it is.

I bet if you go out in the street and ask if Doc rivers or coach bud should be fired, the average person would say no, they didn't do anything wrong but as you mentioned, they can't see strategy, they just see ben missing. So its easier to sell.



I think it's the exact opposite. Few people can play any sport at even high school level, but everybody thinks they can be a coach or a manager.

This board is proof. This whole website is called "Real" GM. Uh huh. :wink:
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#322 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:05 pm

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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#323 » by Kelphus » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:08 pm

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Well if this thread continues like a bad cold to continue, let's have some fun.
The Clipper fan understands the Book of Exodus better than anyone... what it's like to struggle 40 years in the wilderness... and Genesis.. why Cain went after Abel... So fLakers, look out... we're coming.
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#324 » by Kelphus » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:09 pm

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Ah, sweet memories :banghead: :D
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#325 » by Kelphus » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:12 pm

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You're welcome
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#326 » by og15 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:18 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter

Look, sometimes you say things when you think you're going to get somewhere. Doc probably felt his team would be in the finals or at least battling in the ECF. When it doesn’t work out, you have two options: 1) Be honest and say, yea, we had higher expectations and we failed, but we can still build 2) Spin it a little bit and make it as if the whole time you were just trying to build and get better.

Doc has always been a good talker, even the most staunch defender or Doc, which I don't know why one needs to be such can admit that he is a slick talker.

What I'm seeing is people taking the hyperbole too far or swinging the pendulum so hard to the other side with their takes about him. Doc is not a terrible coach. Doc tends to set up good systems for his teams, and he did the same in Philly. Doc DOES have issues with adjusting and going away from some of the staple things he's been doing. This problem DOES mean that Doc can be out coached and out manuevered in the playoffs more so than he should be.
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#327 » by NippySudz » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:26 pm

og15 wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter

Look, sometimes you say things when you think you're going to get somewhere. Doc probably felt his team would be in the finals or at least battling in the ECF. When it doesn’t work out, you have two options: 1) Be honest and say, yea, we had higher expectations and we failed, but we can still build 2) Spin it a little bit and make it as if the whole time you were just trying to build and get better.

Doc has always been a good talker, even the most staunch defender or Doc, which I don't know why one needs to be such can admit that he is a slick talker.

What I'm seeing is people taking the hyperbole too far or swinging the pendulum so hard to the other side with their takes about him. Doc is not a terrible coach. Doc tends to set up good systems for his teams, and he did the same in Philly. Doc DOES have issues with adjusting and going away from some of the staple things he's been doing. This problem DOES mean that Doc can be out coached and out manuevered in the playoffs more so than he should be.

Doc is a terrible coach. You are talking in the context of overall nba coaches. In that context, He's a good coach. He's better than a lot of coaches in the league. But if you are talking in the conversation of an elite coach, doc is not an elite coach. In that context, he's a terrible coach. I think that's what people are referring to when they say he's terrible because he has shown multiple times, he has had the talent on his roster to go into deep playoff runs and he hasn't produced other than 2 times. That's with the celtics. One finals win, 2 finals appearances. So yes, Doc is a horrible coach in that context.

Doc Rivers got outcoached by a perennial first round coach. Nate Mcmillan's pacer record was something like 3-17 in the playoffs. A perennial first round exit. How can we not say that Doc is a terrible coach when he got beat by a middle of the pack coach on simple adjustments, simple strategies? I expect the hawks to be either swept or lose in 5. But they have coach bud, so anything is possible :lol:
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#328 » by NippySudz » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:49 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter

T-Mann's Mom: "I don’t think he had a great player-coach relationship with Doc. I don’t think he got that confidence that he needed from Doc. And it’s the complete opposite from Ty Lue. You know, Ty Lue is a player’s coach. Ty Lue pours confidence in his players, from No. 1 all the way to No. 12."

Source

Full quote

Daynia La-Force wrote:
Well, I was brought to tears at the end of the game, when I saw 19,000 people at the Staples Center giving my son a standing ovation. I was really brought to tears, because I know how hard he’s worked to put himself in a position to be an impact player for the Clippers. I know the blood, sweat and tears that went into getting him to have that confidence to shoot the ball the way he did.

But I’ll tell you one thing, you know, because I’m a basketball coach and he’s grown up in a coaching household. He understands the impact a coach has on a player. He understands the importance of a player-coach relationship. He thinks those things are essential to his success. So last year, I don’t think he had a great player-coach relationship with Doc. I don’t think he got that confidence that he needed from Doc. And it’s the complete opposite from Ty Lue. You know, Ty Lue is a player’s coach. Ty Lue pours confidence in his players, from No. 1 all the way to No. 12. So I think Ty Lue just telling Terance, “You need to shoot that shot,” that’s all Terance really needed. He needs that coach to tell him what he needs, what is needed. And he’s going to run through a brick wall for any coach that gives him that coaching.

And it’s because he grew up in a coaching household. He doesn’t see basketball as an individual sport, he sees it as a team sport, led by a leader who gets the team to buy into that vision. And without that connection, individually, Terance isn’t a great basketball player. But with coaching, with leadership, with confidence, with all the intangibles of the mental part of the game, he’s a great all-star in the league. And that is the difference between his rookie year and his second year. Part of his game is the love of the coach, is being coached. Part of his game is getting that confidence, the confidence from the coach, and knowing exactly what the coach wants from him. And he will take it, run with it and run through a brick wall for any coach that gives him that sort of nurturing.


The nba world knows. Doc is just a dirty secret no one talks about on record. They know he's not that good of a coach. Mann's mom actually modeled doc's system since mann was in middle school. I remember them doing a piece about it and how FSU also used similar to doc's system.

Doc is not a connector. He's a terrible connector inside the lockeroom. Our locker room has confidence from the 15th man down because Lue gives people a chance to play if they play well. Boogie cousins, a third stringer is getting important mins in a playoff game. I don't agree he should play too much extended mins, but in bursts he's looked alright. That stuff keeps people locked in. He probably never expected to play in the playoffs.
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#329 » by NickP » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:06 pm

Thanks to Doc, Nate McMillan is going to get paid in a big way. I completely agree that Doc is not an elite coach. Heck I'd even go as far as to say Doc's a pretty pedestrian coach. But the media has made Doc into this elite coach.
Here's the thing, players will miss shots, players will miss free throws, defensive assignments and offensive execution. But that happens to every championship coach. Doc is not an exception. A smart coach takes this into consideration from game to game and makes adjustments. Doc simply cannot do that and on top of that he's too stubborn to listen to anyone else.
Doc has a history of throwing players under the bus. Of course some may argue that this is not all on Doc but when it repeats itself so many times?
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#330 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:09 pm

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Gee, I wonder who texted this to Stephen A. Does his name happen to rhyme with Brock Givers?
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#331 » by og15 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:14 pm

NippySudz wrote:
og15 wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter

Look, sometimes you say things when you think you're going to get somewhere. Doc probably felt his team would be in the finals or at least battling in the ECF. When it doesn’t work out, you have two options: 1) Be honest and say, yea, we had higher expectations and we failed, but we can still build 2) Spin it a little bit and make it as if the whole time you were just trying to build and get better.

Doc has always been a good talker, even the most staunch defender or Doc, which I don't know why one needs to be such can admit that he is a slick talker.

What I'm seeing is people taking the hyperbole too far or swinging the pendulum so hard to the other side with their takes about him. Doc is not a terrible coach. Doc tends to set up good systems for his teams, and he did the same in Philly. Doc DOES have issues with adjusting and going away from some of the staple things he's been doing. This problem DOES mean that Doc can be out coached and out manuevered in the playoffs more so than he should be.

Doc is a terrible coach. You are talking in the context of overall nba coaches. In that context, He's a good coach. He's better than a lot of coaches in the league. But if you are talking in the conversation of an elite coach, doc is not an elite coach. In that context, he's a terrible coach. I think that's what people are referring to when they say he's terrible because he has shown multiple times, he has had the talent on his roster to go into deep playoff runs and he hasn't produced other than 2 times. That's with the celtics. One finals win, 2 finals appearances. So yes, Doc is a horrible coach in that context.

Doc Rivers got outcoached by a perennial first round coach. Nate Mcmillan's pacer record was something like 3-17 in the playoffs. A perennial first round exit. How can we not say that Doc is a terrible coach when he got beat by a middle of the pack coach on simple adjustments, simple strategies? I expect the hawks to be either swept or lose in 5. But they have coach bud, so anything is possible :lol:
I've said for quite a long time that Doc is not an elite coach. Heck, I had Clippers fans arguing with me after the 13-14 season because I questioed coaching and management decisions in real time, not in hindsight, and they said I should trust the process and the decisions being made, etc. Some of those same people who a year or so later swung the pendulum wildly and now wouldn't even allow any positive review of anything Doc did. I've maintained that overall he's an above average coach to good coach though, he does some things well, but he has his flaws.

I think you might be giving people too much credit. When it comes to sports, people are pretty hyperbolic and can be irrational in judgements. I believe many people are calling him terrible as in compared to all other NBA coaches.

Yes, Doc is not some elite coach, there's certainly been perception that has placed him in that category, but the resume hasn't been there for that designation.

Philly wasn't all his fault, he had player issues, but to absolve him from all responsibility is not logical either. The fact is that he was able to coach his team to large enough leads, but they were unable to make the changes and adjustments to sustain those leads, that's not a new Doc phenomenon, it's happened too many times to be coincidental.


NippySudz wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter

T-Mann's Mom: "I don’t think he had a great player-coach relationship with Doc. I don’t think he got that confidence that he needed from Doc. And it’s the complete opposite from Ty Lue. You know, Ty Lue is a player’s coach. Ty Lue pours confidence in his players, from No. 1 all the way to No. 12."

Source

Full quote

Daynia La-Force wrote:
Well, I was brought to tears at the end of the game, when I saw 19,000 people at the Staples Center giving my son a standing ovation. I was really brought to tears, because I know how hard he’s worked to put himself in a position to be an impact player for the Clippers. I know the blood, sweat and tears that went into getting him to have that confidence to shoot the ball the way he did.

But I’ll tell you one thing, you know, because I’m a basketball coach and he’s grown up in a coaching household. He understands the impact a coach has on a player. He understands the importance of a player-coach relationship. He thinks those things are essential to his success. So last year, I don’t think he had a great player-coach relationship with Doc. I don’t think he got that confidence that he needed from Doc. And it’s the complete opposite from Ty Lue. You know, Ty Lue is a player’s coach. Ty Lue pours confidence in his players, from No. 1 all the way to No. 12. So I think Ty Lue just telling Terance, “You need to shoot that shot,” that’s all Terance really needed. He needs that coach to tell him what he needs, what is needed. And he’s going to run through a brick wall for any coach that gives him that coaching.

And it’s because he grew up in a coaching household. He doesn’t see basketball as an individual sport, he sees it as a team sport, led by a leader who gets the team to buy into that vision. And without that connection, individually, Terance isn’t a great basketball player. But with coaching, with leadership, with confidence, with all the intangibles of the mental part of the game, he’s a great all-star in the league. And that is the difference between his rookie year and his second year. Part of his game is the love of the coach, is being coached. Part of his game is getting that confidence, the confidence from the coach, and knowing exactly what the coach wants from him. And he will take it, run with it and run through a brick wall for any coach that gives him that sort of nurturing.


The nba world knows. Doc is just a dirty secret no one talks about on record. They know he's not that good of a coach. Mann's mom actually modeled doc's system since mann was in middle school. I remember them doing a piece about it and how FSU also used similar to doc's system.

Doc is not a connector. He's a terrible connector inside the lockeroom. Our locker room has confidence from the 15th man down because Lue gives people a chance to play if they play well. Boogie cousins, a third stringer is getting important mins in a playoff game. I don't agree he should play too much extended mins, but in bursts he's looked alright. That stuff keeps people locked in. He probably never expected to play in the playoffs.

Ouch, now that's tough.
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#332 » by Kelphus » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:58 pm

We are still rehashing a FORMER coach, who isn't even active any more in the playoffs. At what point do we kill this vermin thread?
Boring boring boring.
Nothing new, and most from a couple folks
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#333 » by nickhx2 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:16 pm

yes let's not talk about a topic still relevant to many others simply because you do not like it

what an awful way to think and project
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#334 » by NippySudz » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:19 pm

Kelphus wrote:We are still rehashing a FORMER coach, who isn't even active any more in the playoffs. At what point do we kill this vermin thread?
Boring boring boring.
Nothing new, and most from a couple folks
Follow your advice and stop commenting on this thread. If it's of no interest to you, ignore it.

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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#335 » by NippySudz » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:20 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter


Gee, I wonder who texted this to Stephen A. Does his name happen to rhyme with Brock Givers?
That or Joel embiid.

Or it's entirely fabricated.

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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#336 » by NippySudz » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:32 pm

og15 wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
og15 wrote:Look, sometimes you say things when you think you're going to get somewhere. Doc probably felt his team would be in the finals or at least battling in the ECF. When it doesn’t work out, you have two options: 1) Be honest and say, yea, we had higher expectations and we failed, but we can still build 2) Spin it a little bit and make it as if the whole time you were just trying to build and get better.

Doc has always been a good talker, even the most staunch defender or Doc, which I don't know why one needs to be such can admit that he is a slick talker.

What I'm seeing is people taking the hyperbole too far or swinging the pendulum so hard to the other side with their takes about him. Doc is not a terrible coach. Doc tends to set up good systems for his teams, and he did the same in Philly. Doc DOES have issues with adjusting and going away from some of the staple things he's been doing. This problem DOES mean that Doc can be out coached and out manuevered in the playoffs more so than he should be.

Doc is a terrible coach. You are talking in the context of overall nba coaches. In that context, He's a good coach. He's better than a lot of coaches in the league. But if you are talking in the conversation of an elite coach, doc is not an elite coach. In that context, he's a terrible coach. I think that's what people are referring to when they say he's terrible because he has shown multiple times, he has had the talent on his roster to go into deep playoff runs and he hasn't produced other than 2 times. That's with the celtics. One finals win, 2 finals appearances. So yes, Doc is a horrible coach in that context.

Doc Rivers got outcoached by a perennial first round coach. Nate Mcmillan's pacer record was something like 3-17 in the playoffs. A perennial first round exit. How can we not say that Doc is a terrible coach when he got beat by a middle of the pack coach on simple adjustments, simple strategies? I expect the hawks to be either swept or lose in 5. But they have coach bud, so anything is possible :lol:
I've said for quite a long time that Doc is not an elite coach. Heck, I had Clippers fans arguing with me after the 13-14 season because I questioed coaching and management decisions in real time, not in hindsight, and they said I should trust the process and the decisions being made, etc. Some of those same people who a year or so later swung the pendulum wildly and now wouldn't even allow any positive review of anything Doc did. I've maintained that overall he's an above average coach to good coach though, he does some things well, but he has his flaws.

I think you might be giving people too much credit. When it comes to sports, people are pretty hyperbolic and can be irrational in judgements. I believe many people are calling him terrible as in compared to all other NBA coaches.

Yes, Doc is not some elite coach, there's certainly been perception that has placed him in that category, but the resume hasn't been there for that designation.

Philly wasn't all his fault, he had player issues, but to absolve him from all responsibility is not logical either. The fact is that he was able to coach his team to large enough leads, but they were unable to make the changes and adjustments to sustain those leads, that's not a new Doc phenomenon, it's happened too many times to be coincidental.


NippySudz wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter

T-Mann's Mom: "I don’t think he had a great player-coach relationship with Doc. I don’t think he got that confidence that he needed from Doc. And it’s the complete opposite from Ty Lue. You know, Ty Lue is a player’s coach. Ty Lue pours confidence in his players, from No. 1 all the way to No. 12."

Source

Full quote

Daynia La-Force wrote:
Well, I was brought to tears at the end of the game, when I saw 19,000 people at the Staples Center giving my son a standing ovation. I was really brought to tears, because I know how hard he’s worked to put himself in a position to be an impact player for the Clippers. I know the blood, sweat and tears that went into getting him to have that confidence to shoot the ball the way he did.

But I’ll tell you one thing, you know, because I’m a basketball coach and he’s grown up in a coaching household. He understands the impact a coach has on a player. He understands the importance of a player-coach relationship. He thinks those things are essential to his success. So last year, I don’t think he had a great player-coach relationship with Doc. I don’t think he got that confidence that he needed from Doc. And it’s the complete opposite from Ty Lue. You know, Ty Lue is a player’s coach. Ty Lue pours confidence in his players, from No. 1 all the way to No. 12. So I think Ty Lue just telling Terance, “You need to shoot that shot,” that’s all Terance really needed. He needs that coach to tell him what he needs, what is needed. And he’s going to run through a brick wall for any coach that gives him that coaching.

And it’s because he grew up in a coaching household. He doesn’t see basketball as an individual sport, he sees it as a team sport, led by a leader who gets the team to buy into that vision. And without that connection, individually, Terance isn’t a great basketball player. But with coaching, with leadership, with confidence, with all the intangibles of the mental part of the game, he’s a great all-star in the league. And that is the difference between his rookie year and his second year. Part of his game is the love of the coach, is being coached. Part of his game is getting that confidence, the confidence from the coach, and knowing exactly what the coach wants from him. And he will take it, run with it and run through a brick wall for any coach that gives him that sort of nurturing.


The nba world knows. Doc is just a dirty secret no one talks about on record. They know he's not that good of a coach. Mann's mom actually modeled doc's system since mann was in middle school. I remember them doing a piece about it and how FSU also used similar to doc's system.

Doc is not a connector. He's a terrible connector inside the lockeroom. Our locker room has confidence from the 15th man down because Lue gives people a chance to play if they play well. Boogie cousins, a third stringer is getting important mins in a playoff game. I don't agree he should play too much extended mins, but in bursts he's looked alright. That stuff keeps people locked in. He probably never expected to play in the playoffs.

Ouch, now that's tough.

I would say its 90 percent Doc's fault. He plays favorites, he has sh..y rotations. He doesn't adjust well. He played mann at pg for limited mins and Lue unlocked mann. He could have inserted maxey in that role more often when Ben was in foul trouble. Like game 6 but he elected not to until game 6 when ben was in foul trouble and had to play their hand. Like I said, despite ben being a ghost, they still were able to be within striking distance. They were actually up before Doc subbed Seth back in to get picked on by Huerter. In game 5, Gallinari picked on Curry. It's been a common trend, get the switch on curry and let either of those guys shoot over curry.

He was terrible. Curry was great but he asked too much of curry just because he could score. Made no adjustments to switch before the switch, like how steph curry gets himself away from guarding a bad matchup.
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#337 » by NippySudz » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:06 pm

Read on Twitter


only guy I see that has put doc on blast after losing. It never dawned on me that celtics made more conf finals after doc left while doc appeared in 0 conf finals.. :lol:

I completely forgot about that because you know, LeBron James.
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#338 » by mttwlsn16 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:16 pm

NippySudz wrote:
Read on Twitter


only guy I see that has put doc on blast after losing. It never dawned on me that celtics made more conf finals after doc left while doc appeared in 0 conf finals..

I completely forgot about that because you know, LeBron James.
**** spot on.

I was ecstatic when we got Doc in LA. But after watching us consistently underachieve every single season (except for 3 yrs ago when we got the 8 seed) I was glad we let him go.

Now he **** the bed in Philly.

Not sure how this dude keeps getting coaching opportunities, or why he's so widely considered a great coach. He won ONE title in Boston and his teams have fallen short of expectations every other year.

Dude is cheeks.

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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#339 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:38 pm

Kelphus wrote:We are still rehashing a FORMER coach, who isn't even active any more in the playoffs. At what point do we kill this vermin thread?
Boring boring boring.
Nothing new, and most from a couple folks

Nobody's forcing you to read the thread, just saying. And with all due respect, I remember arguing with you a few times last season over Doc's poor coaching. Now that it's been proven beyond all doubt that Doc was the problem, suddenly he's irrelevant and anyone who brings him up is a "vermin"? Come on now.
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Re: Doc out!!!!!!!!! 

Post#340 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:43 pm

NippySudz wrote:only guy I see that has put doc on blast after losing. It never dawned on me that celtics made more conf finals after doc left while doc appeared in 0 conf finals.. :lol:

I've been saying it for years. Not once in all the time since Doc came here did I ever see any Celtics fan say they missed Doc. Even when Celtics fans started turning on Stevens this season, they still didn't change their tune on Doc. If it was up to Boston fans, Doc would have been fired in '06 or '07.
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