2021 NBA Draft Thread

thedoppelganger · Post #541 » by **thedoppelganger** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:53 pm

Old Man Game wrote:Kuminga just sort of left out of the discussion altogether?

Kuminga, Barnes, or Sengun seem the best options if we stay at 6. I'd just be a bit surprised if Kuminga is there, as I don't see Toronto or Orlando taking Barnes over him/the Jalens given their roster construction. Toronto will take one of the guards, and Orlando doesn't need another defensive focused big who can't shoot.

Old Man Game · Post #542 » by **Old Man Game** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:57 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:I appreciate Hollinger's analysis. I think having a different top five is great. This sort of group think where every mock has the same 6 guys at the top is boring and probably contributes at some level to high end lottery busts.

Sent from my moto g power using RealGM mobile app

Mock drafts aren't necessarily indicators of how good the writer expects a player to be. Hollinger's wasn't a mock, it was a 'best prospects ranked article. Most mocks by plugged in sources should be pretty homogenous.

Well sure, the concept of best available versus who well sourced writers are hearing are going to go where is distinct. But either way, I appreciate when someone looks at these guys outside the box. So much of the draft analysis that we as lay people have access to is just the same points over and over. 'Barnes can pass, can't shoot. Cade lacks elite athleticism. Kuminga is raw. etc. etc.' Hearing someone put a different spin on these guys is interesting and informative.

spearsy23 · Post #543 » by **spearsy23** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:04 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:I appreciate Hollinger's analysis. I think having a different top five is great. This sort of group think where every mock has the same 6 guys at the top is boring and probably contributes at some level to high end lottery busts.

Sent from my moto g power using RealGM mobile app

Mock drafts aren't necessarily indicators of how good the writer expects a player to be. Hollinger's wasn't a mock, it was a 'best prospects ranked article. Most mocks by plugged in sources should be pretty homogenous.

Well sure, the concept of best available versus who well sourced writers are hearing are going to go where is distinct. But either way, I appreciate when someone looks at these guys outside the box. So much of the draft analysis that we as lay people have access to is just the same points over and over. 'Barnes can pass, can't shoot. Cade lacks elite athleticism. Kuminga is raw. etc. etc.' Hearing someone put a different spin on these guys is interesting and informative.

I agree, I think it takes a lot more guts to put out the type of article Hollinger did.

Patches Perry · Post #544 » by **Patches Perry** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:33 pm

It's going to depend ultimately on who Presti takes a liking to, which can sometimes be someone outside the box, but I'd like to see him trade 16 and 18 for a pick in the 10-15 range. There have been a suprising amount of good players in that range historically. Far better than 6-10 actually, as little sense as that makes. McCollum, Klay, Sabonis, SGA, Donovan Mitchell, Booker, LaVine, Adebayo, Giannis, Kawhi all taken between 10-15 in the past 10 years.

Post #545 » by **ThunderBolt** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:37 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:I guess I'm the only one high on Scottie Barnes on this board. Gonna be upset if they stay at 6 and take anyone else tbh. Think he's on an upward trajectory and that Draymond as his absolute ceiling is short sighted.

I'm not opposed to him as a prospect, I just had higher hopes. Barnes has the ability to be good but surrounding him with non shooters like Dort, Bazley and Poku starts to have a roster construction I don't like. Maybe Poku gets better and some of those other guys move on. I don't think all of those guys are permanent but you would have to figure that Barnes would be a long term piece if taken. That being said, I think he's the best option at the sixth pick.

Dort's not a bad 3 point shooter at this point especially given his volume, and if poku doesn't improve drastically then it doesn't really matter because he won't be in the league long term. Same as every rebuild though, roster construction doesn't matter since 2/3 of these guys won't be here in 3 years. Just worry about fit next to shai at this point.

Dort is below league average and had some pretty extreme peaks and valleys. I think he definitely improved and hope it lasts but I think it's fair to have still have some reservations.

Old Man Game · Post #546 » by **Old Man Game** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:42 pm

This is bleak, but do you guys ever get the sense we sort of had more than our fair share of luck and now the basketball gods are exacting their penance? I just keep going back to the fact that we had a 75% chance of landing at least one pick in the top 5 last night and instead got number 6. But, we're the same franchise that drafted three straight MVPs, first ballot hall of famers so maybe we've been due some payback.

Post #547 » by **retrobro90** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:42 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:I guess I'm the only one high on Scottie Barnes on this board. Gonna be upset if they stay at 6 and take anyone else tbh. Think he's on an upward trajectory and that Draymond as his absolute ceiling is short sighted.

I'm not opposed to him as a prospect, I just had higher hopes. Barnes has the ability to be good but surrounding him with non shooters like Dort, Bazley and Poku starts to have a roster construction I don't like. Maybe Poku gets better and some of those other guys move on. I don't think all of those guys are permanent but you would have to figure that Barnes would be a long term piece if taken. That being said, I think he's the best option at the sixth pick.

Dort's not a bad 3 point shooter at this point especially given his volume, and if poku doesn't improve drastically then it doesn't really matter because he won't be in the league long term. Same as every rebuild though, roster construction doesn't matter since 2/3 of these guys won't be here in 3 years. Just worry about fit next to shai at this point.

This is the right perspective imo. Don't think "fit" should be anywhere in the calculus at this stage.

Old Man Game · Post #548 » by **Old Man Game** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:45 pm

It's the week of the draft, rumor begin to circulate that one of Suggs/Mobley/Kuminga has had some sort of health scare like foot issue (think Tyson Chandler). He ends up sliding and is there at number 6, how hyped are you?

Post #549 » by **bondom34** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:51 pm

Old Man Game wrote:This is bleak, but do you guys ever get the sense we sort of had more than our fair share of luck and now the basketball gods are exacting their penance? I just keep going back to the fact that we had a 75% chance of landing at least one pick in the top 5 last night and instead got number 6. But, we're the same franchise that drafted three straight MVPs, first ballot hall of famers so maybe we've been due some payback.

I'm just kind of at the point of realizing at least there's no "playoff stress" for a solid probably 4 years so that's a bonus.

Post #550 » by **ThunderBolt** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:00 pm

Old Man Game wrote:This is bleak, but do you guys ever get the sense we sort of had more than our fair share of luck and now the basketball gods are exacting their penance? I just keep going back to the fact that we had a 75% chance of landing at least one pick in the top 5 last night and instead got number 6. But, we're the same franchise that drafted three straight MVPs, first ballot hall of famers so maybe we've been due some payback.

While I agree there was some luck in drafting three straight MVPs, I also think we deserve some credit for that. Imo, Cleveland is the team that has had plenty of luck.

Post #551 » by **ThunderBolt** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:01 pm

retrobro90 wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:I'm not opposed to him as a prospect, I just had higher hopes. Barnes has the ability to be good but surrounding him with non shooters like Dort, Bazley and Poku starts to have a roster construction I don't like. Maybe Poku gets better and some of those other guys move on. I don't think all of those guys are permanent but you would have to figure that Barnes would be a long term piece if taken. That being said, I think he's the best option at the sixth pick.

Dort's not a bad 3 point shooter at this point especially given his volume, and if poku doesn't improve drastically then it doesn't really matter because he won't be in the league long term. Same as every rebuild though, roster construction doesn't matter since 2/3 of these guys won't be here in 3 years. Just worry about fit next to shai at this point.

This is the right perspective imo. Don't think "fit" should be anywhere in the calculus at this stage.

I think there is more of a sense of urgency with Shai starting year four. I just don't want to start this process over in 2-3 years.

Post #552 » by **retrobro90** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:18 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:Dort's not a bad 3 point shooter at this point especially given his volume, and if poku doesn't improve drastically then it doesn't really matter because he won't be in the league long term. Same as every rebuild though, roster construction doesn't matter since 2/3 of these guys won't be here in 3 years. Just worry about fit next to shai at this point.

This is the right perspective imo. Don't think "fit" should be anywhere in the calculus at this stage.

I think there is more of a sense of urgency with Shai starting year four. I just don't want to start this process over in 2-3 years.

Sure but the great thing about Shai is that he's not a guy who needs a very specific type of co-star. Also there's no one else on this roster that needs to be worked around or is "untouchable" (even Shai should be available for the right price). Right now they can prioritize talent over anything else imo.

bbms · Post #553 » by **bbms** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:19 pm

Optmal Draft day scenario is Houston Rockets going for Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs at #2, Evan Mobley falls to #3 and Presti moves up for him. Evan Mobley is the perfect Thunder player from this Draft for the Thunder IMO.

If we can't make that play, at 6, given the American top 5 are all gone, I'd go for Alperen Sengun in a heartbeat.

At 16/18, I like Jaden Springer, Usman Garuba, Roko Prkacin and Juhann Begarin.

(I'm biased against 2nd or 3rd year college players)

Post #554 » by **ThunderBolt** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:37 pm

I kind of agree with this. I had heard a decent amount of talk of barnes over kuminga that last few weeks. I think most people have Kuminga and Barnes pretty close. Suggs seems to be the guy always right in the middle between Cade, Green and Mobley and Kuminga and Barnes.

Read on Twitter

bbms · Post #555 » by **bbms** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:50 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:I kind of agree with this. I had heard a decent amount of talk of barnes over kuminga that last few weeks. I think most people have Kuminga and Barnes pretty close. Suggs seems to be the guy always right in the middle between Cade, Green and Mobley and Kuminga and Barnes.

Read on Twitter

Both Kuminga and Barnes' shooting hurts. I'd be really scared of drafting them, high bust potential imo.

I think this is backward: the 5-6 range is the scariest place to be at the draft. You draft according to the general board, you'll regret imo.

Moody, Wagner, Kispert, Boughknight, Jalen Johnson, Mitchell lack the upside of a high lottery pick. You don't tank for a perennial role player.

Keon, Kuminga, Barnes, Giddey, Garuba have the upside but lack proven shooting ability. NBA right now is more and more a league that makes players that can't shoot from beyond the arc or the line unplayable. What's the point of drafting players in this range whose impact might be outmatched by Kenrich Williams?

The only player in that range IMO that fills the bill for a 5th-6th pick is Sengun, you need a GM with balls to take him.

Mark my words: trading up from 5-7 to the top 4 is gonna be unusually expensive.

cjmcallist · Post #556 » by **cjmcallist** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:04 pm

bbms wrote:Mark my words: trading up from 5-7 to the top 4 is gonna be unusually expensive.

If RGM is any indication, then you're right. And if that's true, I'm out on trading up. No need to overpay for the same odds.

bbms · Post #557 » by **bbms** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:06 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
bbms wrote:Mark my words: trading up from 5-7 to the top 4 is gonna be unusually expensive.

If RGM is any indication, then you're right. And if that's true, I'm out on trading up. No need to overpay for the same odds.

I would be favorable only for Evan Mobley. This guy is the perfect modern C archetype.

Post #558 » by **ThunderBolt** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:56 pm

Spoiler:

I think Bouknight has that upside. He's a pretty gifted scorer.

jake_swivel · Post #559 » by **jake_swivel** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:00 pm

Is sengun mocked anywhere in the lottery? I always see him in the second round or back half of the first. Can’t we get him at 16/18?

Post #560 » by **ThunderBolt** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:05 pm

jake_swivel wrote:Is sengun mocked anywhere in the lottery? I always see him in the second round or back half of the first. Can’t we get him at 16/18?

That would be a dream. Hollinger had him as the fourth best prospect in the athletic. I've not seen him that high in a lot of places but I think he goes before then. Maybe pair 16&18 and move up if he's still there around 12-14?