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2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

Moderators: j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

Who do you guys want the most assuming all of these players are within our range

James Bouknight
29
24%
Ayo Dosunmo
7
6%
Tre Mann
15
12%
Davion Mitchell
15
12%
Josh Giddey
22
18%
Jared Butler
10
8%
Ziaire Williams
7
6%
BJ Boston
2
2%
Moses Moody
5
4%
Sharife Cooper
10
8%
 
Total votes: 122

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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1501 » by Knicksfan1992 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:53 pm

7OnSeven wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Davis18 wrote:
Do you really think Randle is top 10 player in NBA?
Does anyone in Realgm?


Apparently the media did this year?

No All-NBA 2nd teamer would get traded for that package no matter how fraudulent pessimistic Knicks fan may think it is...


Who cares what the media says. Randle is obviously not a top 10 player. Let's be real here. Both advanced stats and your eyes should tell you that. He's a very good player, don't get me wrong, but he's not even sniffing the top 20.


Most advanced stats had Randle in the top 20 in terms of impact this season and again even if you think Randle is more around top 20-30 than Top 10 that package quite frankly sucks for a guy on a value deal.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1502 » by Spree2Houston » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:53 pm

TBri1974 wrote:I don't think Sac has to attach an asset to move Barnes. Hields yes. I don't see how we could absorb both given the fact that RJ plays the same position. We sign and trade Noel and the #19 and the #32 for Barnes, Hields and #9? Take Moody at 9 and a big at 21?


You ask for more future picks. I personally would take both if additional 1st round picks are attached. I'm aiming for Summer 2024
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1503 » by DaGawd » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:54 pm

dukeknicksirish wrote:
7OnSeven wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:
I suggested Randle, both '21 picks and any youngin named barrett, and taking on Wall's contract for the Rox pick.


I like the idea of grabbing Wall. I think Houston moves on from him no matter who they take with the 2nd pick. He just doesn't fit the timeline. Plus, I'm sure he is dying to get out of there. He's in a personal situation to where he needs to prove to the world again that he's still a great player, and I'm sure he wants to win too. No chance he wants to be part of a rebuild.

If we can put together a package for Wall, I'm all for it. Not sure what that package would look like, though. Either way we're not getting the #2 pick no matter what we offer them.



Houston's GM said the team is open to trading the #2 pick for the right package as well.

If Houston comes calling and offers us Wall and Gordon and #2 for Frank/Obi/19/21/32/Dallas 23 , do you take it?

Could 3 way with Washington and have Wood sent to Washington for their first + Gafford + filler

Are those salaries worth taking on for the pick?

Would leave us with:

Wall/Luka
Green/IQ
Rj/Gordon
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Noel

Would give Houston clean slate on cap space and an OKC amount of 1st rounders to start their rebuild.

That’s a horrendous trade for the rockets… Lmao. There’s no way they’re trading a pick that high just to dump salary and not get back some kind of elite talent
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1504 » by Gravy » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:07 pm

Based on last year's draft this front office seems like the type to already know who they want and have contingency plans if he's not there. They won't just package a bunch of stuff together to move up to randomly take whoever the mocks says they should.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1505 » by CoolKids » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:17 pm

Didn’t watch much of cooper is he any better then elf?
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1506 » by robillionaire » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:23 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
FreeSpiritNY wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Yep, all 5 of them are literally Michael Jordan.

I actually can’t wait for some of these dudes to get in the league and struggle and I’m very confident that will happen and it will be pointed out repeatedly.

Cade shot 26% in the NCAA tournament and barely beat a Bible college and lost to a 12 seed, he is not going to make the Pistons a threat any time soon



Cade is going to be a bust. Cooper and duarte will be better players if they get the minutes. I dont see the hype in cade. Because he looks smooth? He also looks slow as a turtle is going to get slammed when he plays defense. his offense is based on being bigger than the opposing player which wont happen in the nab


Playing at a controlled pace =/= Being slow. Cade has blown by / defended many guys much smaller than him all season. Also he's a better athlete than Luka. Even then, Players w/ Advanced Skills that are average athletes by NBA standards > Uber Athletes 10/10 times.


I agree, however he averaged 3.5 assists to 4.0 turnovers a game. This is bad and doesn’t strike me as advanced skills and Luka would never post these awful numbers running the point against poor competition no matter how bad his teammates allegedly are. He’s not as athletic as Ben Simmons either he is a very below the rim type player. And he doesn’t have Luka’s craftiness he relies on strength and bully ball which I don’t think will work as well at this level. He can shoot which is a big positive but I don’t think it’s going to be elite at it
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1507 » by DOT » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:25 pm

CoolKids wrote:Didn’t watch much of cooper is he any better then elf?
He's basically a shorter version of what Elf defenders said Elf was.

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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1508 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:34 pm

What pair of scrubs are the Knicks going to wind up with?

Maybe like Monty Williams, they'll make nice coaches in 30 years.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1509 » by -YogiBiz- » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:37 pm

Juco24 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:If Cooper really is closer to 6'4", we can kiss any chance him falling to #19 good bye. The kids game is eerily similar to John Walls. Really fast and quick, good finisher, really good handler, elite vision, really good size for the position. Doesn't look like a shooter.


Only way he's a legit 6'3/6'4 is if he had a sudden growth spurt... I went back and looked at footage - he definitely wasn't 6'3 @ Auburn


I mean I'm not disagreeing with you. But again, if he really is 6'3"/6'4" now. That dude is a problem.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1510 » by -YogiBiz- » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:56 pm

robillionaire wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
FreeSpiritNY wrote:

Cade is going to be a bust. Cooper and duarte will be better players if they get the minutes. I dont see the hype in cade. Because he looks smooth? He also looks slow as a turtle is going to get slammed when he plays defense. his offense is based on being bigger than the opposing player which wont happen in the nab


Playing at a controlled pace =/= Being slow. Cade has blown by / defended many guys much smaller than him all season. Also he's a better athlete than Luka. Even then, Players w/ Advanced Skills that are average athletes by NBA standards > Uber Athletes 10/10 times.


I agree, however he averaged 3.5 assists to 4.0 turnovers a game. This is bad and doesn’t strike me as advanced skills and Luka would never post these awful numbers running the point against poor competition no matter how bad his teammates allegedly are. He’s not as athletic as Ben Simmons either he is a very below the rim type player. And he doesn’t have Luka’s craftiness he relies on strength and bully ball which I don’t think will work as well at this level. He can shoot which is a big positive but I don’t think it’s going to be elite at it


Well I never said he was better/more skilled than Luka, but he's much closer than you or FreeSpirit are willing to see. His teammates aren't allegedly bad, they are terrible. I know you've watched the tape. If you haven't, imagine if he was passing to 4 college versions of current Elf. He's a much better passer than you're giving him credit for, but he still has to do better with taking care of the ball. He has that "Strong Arm QB" Mentality thinking because of his strength he can make any pass at any time, I think this is more attributed to him being too confident in his passing at this stage. He also needs to be okay with taking what the D is giving him.

Cade isn't a "very below the rim type player" he has shown on multiple occasions he can blow by player and hammer the ball home with authority. This is such a ridiculous take. I almost completely ignored it, but it needed to be addressed.

He's an elite off-ball defender at this stage in his career. He stays attached to his man, and keeps his head on a swivel in order to either jump on passing lanes or make a play at the rim. Very high IQ defender. Should be able to attack his man on D and effectively lock him down (I doubt he guards PGs full time, but that's fine since he's more of a SG/SF type Wing anyways).

Although his lateral quickness isn't elite, he moves side to side very well and uses great footwork, takes good angles, and keeps good positioning to always stay in front of his man on D. If he's guarding Wings, Cade will do more than just fine as a defender.

Also his shooting is good, and is very likely to translate. Idk how many guys shoot 40% on 5.7 Attempts Per Game and shoot 84.6% from the FT line (on 5.8 Attempts Per Game) and all of a sudden not be a good shooter in the league.

Again, him not being as athletic as Ben or as skilled as Luka shouldn't be a knock on him; both of those guys were generational in their respective regard. Cade is a healthy mix of the two, which is why people are salivating over him as a prospect. He's a different player than both of them, but they still shares quite a few similarities.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1511 » by robillionaire » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:15 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
Playing at a controlled pace =/= Being slow. Cade has blown by / defended many guys much smaller than him all season. Also he's a better athlete than Luka. Even then, Players w/ Advanced Skills that are average athletes by NBA standards > Uber Athletes 10/10 times.


I agree, however he averaged 3.5 assists to 4.0 turnovers a game. This is bad and doesn’t strike me as advanced skills and Luka would never post these awful numbers running the point against poor competition no matter how bad his teammates allegedly are. He’s not as athletic as Ben Simmons either he is a very below the rim type player. And he doesn’t have Luka’s craftiness he relies on strength and bully ball which I don’t think will work as well at this level. He can shoot which is a big positive but I don’t think it’s going to be elite at it


Well I never said he was better/more skilled than Luka, but he's much closer than you or FreeSpirit are willing to see. His teammates aren't allegedly bad, they are terrible. I know you've watched the tape. If you haven't, imagine if he was passing to 4 college versions of current Elf. He's a much better passer than you're giving him credit for, but he still has to do better with taking care of the ball. He has that "Strong Arm QB" Mentality thinking because of his strength he can make any pass at any time, I think this is more attributed to him being too confident in his passing at this stage. He also needs to be okay with taking what the D is giving him.

Cade isn't a "very below the rim type player" he has shown on multiple occasions he can blow by player and hammer the ball home with authority. This is such a ridiculous take. I almost completely ignored it, but it needed to be addressed.

He's an elite off-ball defender at this stage in his career. He stays attached to his man, and keeps his head on a swivel in order to either jump on passing lanes or make a play at the rim. Very high IQ defender. Should be able to attack his man on D and effectively lock him down (I doubt he guards PGs full time, but that's fine since he's more of a SG/SF type Wing anyways).

Although his lateral quickness isn't elite, he moves side to side very well and uses great footwork, takes good angles, and keeps good positioning to always stay in front of his man on D. If he's guarding Wings, Cade will do more than just fine as a defender.

Also his shooting is good, and is very likely to translate. Idk how many guys shoot 40% on 5.7 Attempts Per Game and shoot 84.6% from the FT line (on 5.8 Attempts Per Game) and all of a sudden not be a good shooter in the league.

Again, him not being as athletic as Ben or as skilled as Luka shouldn't be a knock on him; both of those guys were generational in their respective regard. Cade is a healthy mix of the two, which is why people are salivating over him as a prospect. He's a different player than both of them, but they still shares quite a few similarities.


I guess my thing is that I have doubts about his skills as a playmaker, he always gets these Luka comparisons but I have never seen anything out of his passing or vision that makes me think of him, he isn’t averaging very many assists, and with the negative ast/to ratio I’m not sure it’s really even on the level of Julius Randle as a passer

He shot 3-14 in the first round of the tournament and his team won anyway. His teammates aren’t great but they are getting unfairly thrown under the bus to prop him up
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1512 » by 7OnSeven » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:47 pm

dukeknicksirish wrote:
7OnSeven wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:
I suggested Randle, both '21 picks and any youngin named barrett, and taking on Wall's contract for the Rox pick.


I like the idea of grabbing Wall. I think Houston moves on from him no matter who they take with the 2nd pick. He just doesn't fit the timeline. Plus, I'm sure he is dying to get out of there. He's in a personal situation to where he needs to prove to the world again that he's still a great player, and I'm sure he wants to win too. No chance he wants to be part of a rebuild.

If we can put together a package for Wall, I'm all for it. Not sure what that package would look like, though. Either way we're not getting the #2 pick no matter what we offer them.



Houston's GM said the team is open to trading the #2 pick for the right package as well.

If Houston comes calling and offers us Wall and Gordon and #2 for IQ/Frank/Obi/19/21/Dallas 23 , do you take it?

Could 3 way with Washington and have Wood sent to Washington for their first + Gafford + filler

Are those salaries worth taking on for the pick?

Would leave us with:

Wall/Luka
Green/RJ
Rj/Gordon
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Noel

Would give Houston clean slate on cap space and an OKC amount of 1st rounders to start their rebuild.

However, it totally kills our future FA signing potential. So essentially, is Jalen Green worth Wall & Gordons salaries?


Do I take it? Yes. Will Houston give up the chance to draft a franchise player for our role players? No.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1513 » by 7OnSeven » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:49 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
7OnSeven wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Apparently the media did this year?

No All-NBA 2nd teamer would get traded for that package no matter how fraudulent pessimistic Knicks fan may think it is...


Who cares what the media says. Randle is obviously not a top 10 player. Let's be real here. Both advanced stats and your eyes should tell you that. He's a very good player, don't get me wrong, but he's not even sniffing the top 20.


Most advanced stats had Randle in the top 20 in terms of impact this season and again even if you think Randle is more around top 20-30 than Top 10 that package quite frankly sucks for a guy on a value deal.


I'm just being realistic. What you think Randle's value is, and what his actual value around the league are two different things. Randle could not net us anything than higher than #7, and even that is probably stretching it. A PF who needs the ball in his hands all the time is not highly sought after around the league.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1514 » by 7OnSeven » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:00 pm

robillionaire wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
FreeSpiritNY wrote:

Cade is going to be a bust. Cooper and duarte will be better players if they get the minutes. I dont see the hype in cade. Because he looks smooth? He also looks slow as a turtle is going to get slammed when he plays defense. his offense is based on being bigger than the opposing player which wont happen in the nab


Playing at a controlled pace =/= Being slow. Cade has blown by / defended many guys much smaller than him all season. Also he's a better athlete than Luka. Even then, Players w/ Advanced Skills that are average athletes by NBA standards > Uber Athletes 10/10 times.


I agree, however he averaged 3.5 assists to 4.0 turnovers a game. This is bad and doesn’t strike me as advanced skills and Luka would never post these awful numbers running the point against poor competition no matter how bad his teammates allegedly are. He’s not as athletic as Ben Simmons either he is a very below the rim type player. And he doesn’t have Luka’s craftiness he relies on strength and bully ball which I don’t think will work as well at this level. He can shoot which is a big positive but I don’t think it’s going to be elite at it


There are not too many points in this post that are accurate about Cade.

1. If you watched him at all, he's extremely crafty.
2. The Big 12 was the best conference in college basketball. Hardly 'poor competition'
3. He was the best player in the best conference in basketball, and broke quite a few records as a freshman
4. Ben Simmons is not a horrible comparison. Imagine if Ben could shoot like Cade. That would be one hell of a player.
5. He's not 'below the rim'. He can and has dunked on a lot of people. He does all kinds of windmills and other crazy dunks
6. He's WAY more athletic than Luka
7. He's a great rebounder
8. Elite vision
9. Could develop into an elite defender in time. He has what it takes to get there
10. Basketball IQ is off the charts, similar to Luka

You're insane if you think he's going to be a bust. He's the best player in a loaded draft, and the best player among 3 other potential franchise players at the top of the draft. I'm guessing you didn't watch much OSU bball this past year. He was a man among boys.

For those who have not seen Cade play that much, watch this short highlight reel of his game against OU where he puts up 40. This was probably his best game in college, but he had so many it's hard to choose which one is best.

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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1515 » by 8516knicks » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:04 pm

Davion Mitchel and Thor please. Hyland 2nd round. Robinson-Earl also good 2nd rd.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1516 » by Juco24 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:29 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
Juco24 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:If Cooper really is closer to 6'4", we can kiss any chance him falling to #19 good bye. The kids game is eerily similar to John Walls. Really fast and quick, good finisher, really good handler, elite vision, really good size for the position. Doesn't look like a shooter.


Only way he's a legit 6'3/6'4 is if he had a sudden growth spurt... I went back and looked at footage - he definitely wasn't 6'3 @ Auburn


I mean I'm not disagreeing with you. But again, if he really is 6'3"/6'4" now. That dude is a problem.


Definitely agree... and would love for him to 'fall' to us
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1517 » by Juggynaut » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:30 pm

Y is Cade's assist to turnover ratio so poor though? That's kind of a big red flag when you're viewed as a playmaking wing. Hot take I think Pistons are going to draft Jalen Green 1st overall. :)
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1518 » by WargamesX » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:10 pm

Juggynaut wrote:Y is Cade's assist to turnover ratio so poor though? That's kind of a big red flag when you're viewed as a playmaking wing. Hot take I think Pistons are going to draft Jalen Green 1st overall. :)


The rest of his team sucked :lol: they use to miss shots off his passes all the time so he wouldn’t get assist when he deserved it.

Cade, Siddiq, Jerian, and Hayes (if he gets right….) should be enough to get them out of the bottom of the lottery and winning games. If they grab a center they can do some damage.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1519 » by WargamesX » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:21 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Read on Twitter


something pitched in the athletic as a possible trade. It kinda depends on who's there at 10 for me to want to do this trade. Like if Mitchell and Bouknight are gone there's no one I truly like in that range for us.

I would hope they try to play hardball and do it for the 2023 pick and Knox :lol: 8-)

Jokes aside of course the Knicks should take this deal



Who are you drafting there if Mitchell and Bouknight are gone?

I don’t think they even do that trade if the both of them are gone,
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1520 » by TheGreenArrow » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:31 pm

I mean cmon……

Read on Twitter


No way you pass on this guy!!!!!!!

NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!
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