The New Improved 2021-2022 Trade/Offseason Thread

[Mac1958]

I'm not even sure I like this, but while I'm thinking of it:

Barton and Gordon for Simmons works, with Simmons playing the Draymond Green role....

[THE J0KER]

Joker seems to want to be the "Joe Williams" of our forum, always wanting to hyper-accentuate the negative, perhaps to drum up conversation, not sure.

Brought back memories of Irv Brown but your point seems accurate. Obviously, he/she is not a fan of Malone. I am. I think he did a masterfield job especially after Murray went down.

...

This is an almost childish simplification of "my problems" with Malone.

My basic problem with Malone is my own expectations of this Denver team and my personal belief that this team (after Murray's comeback) has the potential to make a historical next step for the Nuggets franchise... but not under Malone! What is the "next step" for Denver after 2nd seeding on West in the 2019 regular season and WCF in 2020? It is a championship ring or NBA big final, or at least to lose WC final in a more competitive way than in 2020 vs Lakers. Why this is the mission impossible under coach Malone despite one MVP level player and 2 all-star level talents? Because of coach Malone and his strategical and competitive incompetence! In 7 out of 7 playoff series he coached the Nuggets so far, opponents always took the first break in the series. Having Malone on the bench is like starting every series against a worse seeded opponent with a -1 handicap or with -2 vs better seeded because he guarantees 1-2 deficit vs worse ranked or sure dead 1-3/0-3 deficit vs better-ranked (ok, once in 100 years will be pandemic playoff on the neutral field without spectators so the team can survive 1-3 vs a team which in that case have an only virtual home-court advantage).

Here is Malone's playoff-winning record game by game and why he is probably the NBA's all-time worst coach in terms of series preparation and opponent adjustment.

GAMES#1 - 28.6%
GAMES#2 - 42.9%
GAMES#3 - 28.6%
GAMES#4 - 28.6%
9 wins out of 28 games
GAMES#5 - 83.3%
GAMES#6 - 60.0%
GAMES#7 - 75.0%
11 wins out of 15 games

If you take from all coaches all their playoff seasons where they survive at least one playoff round, you can't find any coach with at least 2+ such postseasons with this awful GAME#1#2#3#4 record!

Look for example at Malone's record in the opening two games of every PO series, it is just 5 wins in 14 games where only 2 games were played in the opponent's home arena!? Even in 6 games played in Denver against worse seeded teams where Nuggets are bold favorites his record is just 3-3.

As I already said, all these complaints make sense only for fans who want to see that next step. If you are happy during a prime-Jokic era with Denver constantly finishing WC-TOP4 in regular-season and winning PO first-round again and again despite early wasted home-court advantage, this team is enough supertalented to deliver it no matter how bad our coach is.

[TunaFish]

Joker seems to want to be the "Joe Williams" of our forum, always wanting to hyper-accentuate the negative, perhaps to drum up conversation, not sure.

Brought back memories of Irv Brown but your point seems accurate. Obviously, he/she is not a fan of Malone. I am. I think he did a masterfield job especially after Murray went down.

...

This is an almost childish simplification of "my problems" with Malone.

My basic problem with Malone is my own expectations of this Denver team and my personal belief that this team (after Murray's comeback) has the potential to make a historical next step for the Nuggets franchise... but not under Malone! What is the "next step" for Denver after 2nd seeding on West in the 2019 regular season and WCF in 2020? It is a championship ring or NBA big final, or at least to lose WC final in a more competitive way than in 2020 vs Lakers. Why this is the mission impossible under coach Malone despite one MVP level player and 2 all-star level talents? Because of coach Malone and his strategical and competitive incompetence! In 7 out of 7 playoff series he coached the Nuggets so far, opponents always took the first break in the series. Having Malone on the bench is like starting every series against a worse seeded opponent with a -1 handicap or with -2 vs better seeded because he guarantees 1-2 deficit vs worse ranked or sure dead 1-3/0-3 deficit vs better-ranked (ok, once in 100 years will be pandemic playoff on the neutral field without spectators so the team can survive 1-3 vs a team which in that case have an only virtual home-court advantage).

Here is Malone's playoff-winning record game by game and why he is probably the NBA's all-time worst coach in terms of series preparation and opponent adjustment.

GAMES#1 - 28.6%
GAMES#2 - 42.9%
GAMES#3 - 28.6%
GAMES#4 - 28.6%
9 wins out of 28 games
GAMES#5 - 83.3%
GAMES#6 - 60.0%
GAMES#7 - 75.0%
11 wins out of 15 games

If you take from all coaches all their playoff seasons where they survive at least one playoff round, you can't find any coach with at least 2+ such postseasons with this awful GAME#1#2#3#4 record!

Look for example at Malone's record in the opening two games of every PO series, it is just 5 wins in 14 games where only 2 games were played in the opponent's home arena!? Even in 6 games played in Denver against worse seeded teams where Nuggets are bold favorites his record is just 3-3.

As I already said, all these complaints make sense only for fans who want to see that next step. If you are happy during a prime-Jokic era with Denver constantly finishing WC-TOP4 in regular-season and winning PO first-round again and again despite early wasted home-court advantage, this team is enough supertalented to deliver it no matter how bad our coach is.

Changing coaches on a growing team is a bad idea in general and firing a winning coach is a particularly bad idea. I can give you many reasons but we could start with Jokic who has said how much he appreciates what Malone has done for him.

Denver is improving but must overcome injuries to starting players like Murray to be successful, same as any team in the league who loses a star caliber player. A starting backcourt of Compazzo and Rivers in the playoffs was doomed from the beginning but the Nuggets gave a valid effort due in no small part by coaching, that and the ascendancy of Jokic. Not many teams can overcome the injury issues this Nuggets' team had at the guard position. The other choice is to find better replacements.

The long term picture looks good with 3 likely star players and Gordon. Malone is not the problem. If the Nuggets are going to be a contender, they are going to need a bit of luck with injuries (just like every team in the league) and an upgrade at the 2 guard.

[NuggetsWY]

Houston is clearly rebuilding. House is a 28 year old. He does not seem to fit their long range plans and he had a rough year. He shouldn't cost too much to acquire. Would he be an acceptable bench player next year?

[The Rebel]

Houston is clearly rebuilding. House is a 28 year old. He does not seem to fit their long range plans and he had a rough year. He shouldn't cost too much to acquire. Would he be an acceptable bench player next year?

I think House would be a good addition, we could use his shooting and last I checked he was a solid defender.

[skywalker33]

Houston is clearly rebuilding. House is a 28 year old. He does not seem to fit their long range plans and he had a rough year. He shouldn't cost too much to acquire. Would he be an acceptable bench player next year?

I think House would be a good addition, we could use his shooting and last I checked he was a solid defender.

House is a good defender but his 3-pt shooting needs some work, he's average at best. I do like his size and defense though. Reasonable salary and could be a good fit on the bench but wouldn't be my first choice.

[skywalker33]

So, wondering what we could get for Bol Bol ? He definitely has some talent, intriguing size, and some amazing skills for a man his size but can't seem to appeal enough for Malone to put him on the court. Would've loved to have traded him to ORL instead of RJ but not meant to be. So what can we get for him at best/at worst ?

[The Rebel]

Houston is clearly rebuilding. House is a 28 year old. He does not seem to fit their long range plans and he had a rough year. He shouldn't cost too much to acquire. Would he be an acceptable bench player next year?

I think House would be a good addition, we could use his shooting and last I checked he was a solid defender.

House is a good defender but his 3-pt shooting needs some work, he's average at best. I do like his size and defense though. Reasonable salary and could be a good fit on the bench but wouldn't be my first choice.

Compared to Dozier, Craig, and Cancar who have been our primary backup 3s and Shaq, Dozier, and Craig at our backup SGs league average is a huge improvement. I think his issue this year is that he is a spot up shooter that plays off the ball, nobody on the rockets this year has been close to elite at passing so it is hard to spot up and just hit your shots.

[The Rebel]

So, wondering what we could get for Bol Bol ? He definitely has some talent, intriguing size, and some amazing skills for a man his size but can't seem to appeal enough for Malone to put him on the court. Would've loved to have traded him to ORL instead of RJ but not meant to be. So what can we get for him at best/at worst ?

We are going to have to find a GM that fell in love with him in the bubble, and hopefully they have not scouted any live Nuggets games since he fell in love with him. Watching him pregame and even in game this season would have made them quickly fall out of love with him.

I think we might be able to get a 2nd round for him, maybe even a early 2nd since he has shown he can score in the NBA. I can also see him being the asset we sent back in a deal using the TPE for player/pick. Other than that I do not think he is even close to the value he had last offseason when we gave him a 2 year $2 million per deal.

[TunaFish]

Spotrac has Will Barton's deadline on the player option for 14.6 million at 7/17/21.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/will-barton-10865/

It will be very interesting watching Denver's FO holding their breath until then. Green follows on 7/26/21. Obviously, the team can only plan so far until these players decide on their contracts.

Barton would be a fool to turn down that contract given his lack of playing time due to injury. However, players with egos some times take risks and I doubt Denver would mind if he he declines the option. Green is another matter who is on a more reasonable contract.

[skywalker33]

I think House would be a good addition, we could use his shooting and last I checked he was a solid defender.

House is a good defender but his 3-pt shooting needs some work, he's average at best. I do like his size and defense though. Reasonable salary and could be a good fit on the bench but wouldn't be my first choice.

Compared to Dozier, Craig, and Cancar who have been our primary backup 3s and Shaq, Dozier, and Craig at our backup SGs league average is a huge improvement. I think his issue this year is that he is a spot up shooter that plays off the ball, nobody on the rockets this year has been close to elite at passing so it is hard to spot up and just hit your shots.

I get it but one thing to note, this is becoming a 3-pt league and honestly our bench is way below average in 3-pt pct, we need to add shooting off the bench IMO.

[The Rebel]

Spotrac has Will Barton's deadline on the player option for 14.6 million at 7/17/21.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/will-barton-10865/

It will be very interesting watching Denver's FO holding their breath until then. Green follows on 7/26/21. Obviously, the team can only plan so far until these players decide on their contracts.

Barton would be a fool to turn down that contract given his lack of playing time due to injury. However, players with egos some times take risks and I doubt Denver would mind if he he declines the option. Green is another matter who is on a more reasonable contract.

Everything I have seen and heard from local reporters is that Barton is opting out, and a big part of it is that he is still mad that fans booed him 3 years ago in the playoffs. I think Barton will get a full MLE deal from one of these young teams that need a veteran to fit with the young guys. Given that he can capably start at SG or SF I can see a lot of these teams wanting him even if it was just a 3 year deal plus if he has another injury prone year he may not ever get more than a LLE type of deal going forward.

Green is a harder one to figure out though. He has never made more than $8.5 million a year, and I think if he thinks he can get a 3 or 4 year deal for taxpayer MLE it maybe a better option that staying here for another year. He has a long history of injuries, which derailed his career and also seem to come up every season plus he is already 30, so he may be looking for the most long term money right now.

Personally I am fine with Barton opting out, if he opts in I hope we trade him, but Green is one I prefer to keep. It gives us another year of developing NNaji, Bol, and Cancar to find a better backup PF and small ball Center.

[The Rebel]

House is a good defender but his 3-pt shooting needs some work, he's average at best. I do like his size and defense though. Reasonable salary and could be a good fit on the bench but wouldn't be my first choice.

Compared to Dozier, Craig, and Cancar who have been our primary backup 3s and Shaq, Dozier, and Craig at our backup SGs league average is a huge improvement. I think his issue this year is that he is a spot up shooter that plays off the ball, nobody on the rockets this year has been close to elite at passing so it is hard to spot up and just hit your shots.

I get it but one thing to note, this is becoming a 3-pt league and honestly our bench is way below average in 3-pt pct, we need to add shooting off the bench IMO.

I agree, but even adding average 3 point shooters that are good enough defenders that Malone will play them is an improvement. The 2 years age Daniels our 3 point specialist off the bench and Howard this last season only got off the bench in garbage time and when Malone literally had no other choice. We have to get guys that Malone will play that best fill the roles we need filled. Which is 1 reason I like Monk, while he is not a great defender he at least puts in enough effort that Malone should play him.

[The Rebel]

With the rumors going around Boston that guys are not happy with Smart I wonder if they would trade him if they can move Thompson at the same time? If Barton and Green opt in than we can do something like this and I think it makes sense.

Barton, Green, and the 26th overall pick for Smart, Thompson, and Nesmith.

The deal frees up the money to re-sign Fournier and use the full MLE for the Celtics, plus Barton can be the starting SG and 3rd option with the Jays, and Green gives them a bench defensive big that can also spread the floor which is a need for them.

We get a great fit at SG for our system, a good backup Center that Malone should use, and a project SG/SF that can shoot and has solid defensive potential.

[snowman]

Hey guys, Celtics fan here, coming in peace.

I was just looking over your trade ideas because I was thinking about something similar as some being talked about here. I doubt Boston will trade Smart because he is one of former coach and now GM Brad Stevens favorites, so I could be wrong, but don't see that happening, and with the plan to resign Evan Fouriner I don't think there is a need for Barton. Boston is also pretty high on Nesmith, so I don't see them giving up on him after a pretty decent first year.

With that being said, I'm sure something could work out with Tristan Thompson going your way since we have Robert Williams, Al Horford, Moses Brown as our rotation and Grant Williams as a small ball five with Luke Kornet as a 3 and D at 7'2 maybe coming back and Tackop Fall as a 2 way also. So we are full up on big's, but could use Green as a back up PF, along with Jabari Parker to back up Jason Tatum. If Green opts in, which he probably would be wise to do so, what about this ?

Tristan Thompson for JaMychal Green straight swap.
You guys get an enforcer / rebounder on a one year deal behind Joker
We get a back up PF on a one year deal behind Tatum.

[skywalker33]

Hey guys, Celtics fan here, coming in peace.

I was just looking over your trade ideas because I was thinking about something similar as some being talked about here. I doubt Boston will trade Smart because he is one of former coach and now GM Brad Stevens favorites, so I could be wrong, but don't see that happening, and with the plan to resign Evan Fouriner I don't think there is a need for Barton. Boston is also pretty high on Nesmith, so I don't see them giving up on him after a pretty decent first year.

With that being said, I'm sure something could work out with Tristan Thompson going your way since we have Robert Williams, Al Horford, Moses Brown as our rotation and Grant Williams as a small ball five with Luke Kornet as a 3 and D at 7'2 maybe coming back and Tackop Fall as a 2 way also. So we are full up on big's, but could use Green as a back up PF, along with Jabari Parker to back up Jason Tatum. If Green opts in, which he probably would be wise to do so, what about this ?

Tristan Thompson for JaMychal Green straight swap.
You guys get an enforcer / rebounder on a one year deal behind Joker
We get a back up PF on a one year deal behind Tatum.

Perhaps if you throw in a draft pick, don't see us taking on an extra $10M for 2022 for a better player, can shoot the 3pt, and is more versatile.

[NuggetsWY]

Hey guys, Celtics fan here, coming in peace.

I was just looking over your trade ideas because I was thinking about something similar as some being talked about here. I doubt Boston will trade Smart because he is one of former coach and now GM Brad Stevens favorites, so I could be wrong, but don't see that happening, and with the plan to resign Evan Fouriner I don't think there is a need for Barton. Boston is also pretty high on Nesmith, so I don't see them giving up on him after a pretty decent first year.

With that being said, I'm sure something could work out with Tristan Thompson going your way since we have Robert Williams, Al Horford, Moses Brown as our rotation and Grant Williams as a small ball five with Luke Kornet as a 3 and D at 7'2 maybe coming back and Tackop Fall as a 2 way also. So we are full up on big's, but could use Green as a back up PF, along with Jabari Parker to back up Jason Tatum. If Green opts in, which he probably would be wise to do so, what about this ?

Tristan Thompson for JaMychal Green straight swap.
You guys get an enforcer / rebounder on a one year deal behind Joker
We get a back up PF on a one year deal behind Tatum.

Perhaps if you throw in a draft pick, don't see us taking on an extra $10M for 2022 for a better player, can shoot the 3pt, and is more versatile.

Agree with Skywalker - but your deal is close.

[snowman]

Hey guys, Celtics fan here, coming in peace.

I was just looking over your trade ideas because I was thinking about something similar as some being talked about here. I doubt Boston will trade Smart because he is one of former coach and now GM Brad Stevens favorites, so I could be wrong, but don't see that happening, and with the plan to resign Evan Fouriner I don't think there is a need for Barton. Boston is also pretty high on Nesmith, so I don't see them giving up on him after a pretty decent first year.

With that being said, I'm sure something could work out with Tristan Thompson going your way since we have Robert Williams, Al Horford, Moses Brown as our rotation and Grant Williams as a small ball five with Luke Kornet as a 3 and D at 7'2 maybe coming back and Tackop Fall as a 2 way also. So we are full up on big's, but could use Green as a back up PF, along with Jabari Parker to back up Jason Tatum. If Green opts in, which he probably would be wise to do so, what about this ?

Tristan Thompson for JaMychal Green straight swap.
You guys get an enforcer / rebounder on a one year deal behind Joker
We get a back up PF on a one year deal behind Tatum.

Perhaps if you throw in a draft pick, don't see us taking on an extra $10M for 2022 for a better player, can shoot the 3pt, and is more versatile.

Agree with Skywalker - but your deal is close.

Actually, If Green opts in, which was a precursor for this deal, because he has a player option I thought, the difference would only be 2.1 mil. Thompson would be your 2nd best rebounder, and your top off. rebounder. With Thompson being a year younger, Boston may add some cash to make up the difference, or maybe a 2nd round pick swap.

[skywalker33]

Perhaps if you throw in a draft pick, don't see us taking on an extra $10M for 2022 for a better player, can shoot the 3pt, and is more versatile.

Agree with Skywalker - but your deal is close.

Actually, If Green opts in, which was a precursor for this deal, because he has a player option I thought, the difference would only be 2.1 mil. Thompson would be your 2nd best rebounder, and your top off. rebounder. With Thompson being a year younger, Boston may add some cash to make up the difference, or maybe a 2nd round pick swap.

Green's option is for this year, I was under the impression TT had another year on his contract, may have bad info. Even so, Green is the better player and younger, more versatile. I could see DEN requesting a 2nd rder, as WY said we're not that far off but you don't get the better of the deal w/o a little to boot.

[The Rebel]

Perhaps if you throw in a draft pick, don't see us taking on an extra $10M for 2022 for a better player, can shoot the 3pt, and is more versatile.

Agree with Skywalker - but your deal is close.

Actually, If Green opts in, which was a precursor for this deal, because he has a player option I thought, the difference would only be 2.1 mil. Thompson would be your 2nd best rebounder, and your top off. rebounder. With Thompson being a year younger, Boston may add some cash to make up the difference, or maybe a 2nd round pick swap.

You are right that it would only be 2.1 million but what is out incentive to take the worse player making more money? He would be our 3rd best rebounder at best and he clogs the lane. Maybe you missed it in my post, we and pretty much every NBA fan outside of Boston fans view him as a bad contract. Nesmith was the incentive to take him, and without incentive we are not interested.