2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[Saberestar]

I would hate to lose Bridges, but if it does become a game of dollars I think he's the easiest minutes to cover.

Craig, Nader
Crowder, Johnson

Are all reasonably interchangeable at both forward spots, are all 2 way players and are all on reasonable deals.

That said, I think we allow Bridges a "show me" fourth year, which is probably a mistake, but if I'm paying a guy $20+ million I want to make sure he can get me 20+ on a nightly basis.

We need to retain Bridges. Period.

[BobbieL]

I would hate to lose Bridges, but if it does become a game of dollars I think he's the easiest minutes to cover.

Craig, Nader
Crowder, Johnson

Are all reasonably interchangeable at both forward spots, are all 2 way players and are all on reasonable deals.

That said, I think we allow Bridges a "show me" fourth year, which is probably a mistake, but if I'm paying a guy $20+ million I want to make sure he can get me 20+ on a nightly basis.

We need to retain Bridges. Period.

Ayton, Booker and Bridges
Figure out the rest later - I mean, they have Cam, Jae and Dario for two more years after this year so they are pretty good shape that way
the CP3 contract is tough - BWGs idea about opting in with the wink wink next year of 2/55 would be nice but probably will be 3/100 this year

But you have a core of those three dudes, all under 25 - I take my chances.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I would hate to lose Bridges, but if it does become a game of dollars I think he's the easiest minutes to cover.

Craig, Nader
Crowder, Johnson

Are all reasonably interchangeable at both forward spots, are all 2 way players and are all on reasonable deals.

That said, I think we allow Bridges a "show me" fourth year, which is probably a mistake, but if I'm paying a guy $20+ million I want to make sure he can get me 20+ on a nightly basis.

Our wing depth is definitely solid! And the possibility of losing Bridges to a team that might overpay for him ( cough........ cough San Antonio)? Once Derozan is gone would suck big time for sure! In that context, regardless of Nader or Craig, it might look to be a reasonable consideration to consider targeting a rookie scale prospect in the same archetype as Bridges to have on that 4 yr deal with a 2nd round pick.

It may only be a few million less than what we'd bid for the likes of Craig and Nader around the BAE, But that few million disparity can really add up quickly when trying to fill out our roster around three or more max contracts plus potentially! And Johnson is great, but more offensively dominant than a potential lockdown wing. And we do always need more perimeter defense. There are some pretty solid choices to choose from for insurance against losing Bridges honestly. Prospects that are very similar versatile defensive archetypes with solid upside are JT Thor, Herbert Jones, Terrence Shannon Jr, Kessler Edwards, etc. The very best of those options being Thor and Jones!!!

Now we may not know what Craigs or Naders market value could become if they play really well next season or the one after??? They could fluctuate some! But the beauty of the rookie scale contract is in that it provides 4 yrs of low cost contractual control outside of market value fluctuations. So IF we anticipate a fair chance of losing Bridges due to teams being willing to overpay, We should be proactive,
And consider adding further depth in that similar archetype.

[NapoleonII]

I don't want to even think about drafting to replace Bridges.

It's hard enough finding guys with both his skills/attitude, and then probably 1 out of 5 of those guys actually pan out.

[NapoleonII]

We might need to think about packaging our picks to clear up salary.

Saric and Carter are unfortunately the heavy weight not adding up to production on the court.

Booker/CP3/Payne with Bridges backing up some of the 2 can easily take over much of the 96 minutes at the 1/2 spot.

Saric is a nice option at backup C but not worth 11m. Get Stix out there or find a cheaper vet.

[irish22022]

I would hate to lose Bridges, but if it does become a game of dollars I think he's the easiest minutes to cover.

Craig, Nader
Crowder, Johnson

Are all reasonably interchangeable at both forward spots, are all 2 way players and are all on reasonable deals.

That said, I think we allow Bridges a "show me" fourth year, which is probably a mistake, but if I'm paying a guy $20+ million I want to make sure he can get me 20+ on a nightly basis.

We need to retain Bridges. Period.

Ayton, Booker and Bridges
Figure out the rest later - I mean, they have Cam, Jae and Dario for two more years after this year so they are pretty good shape that way
the CP3 contract is tough - BWGs idea about opting in with the wink wink next year of 2/55 would be nice but probably will be 3/100 this year

But you have a core of those three dudes, all under 25 - I take my chances.

That's three players that I like but that isn't a "big 3", it just isn't. And individually they're gonna get paid like one. If bridges wants 27 mil a year, and ayton wants max, and booker wants a supermax, we are gonna just have minimums all around them. That's what, 110 mil a year for 3 guys? Cap is currently around 118?

That's what the nets pay for Kyrie, KD and Harden basically.

[Barkley6]

I see our situation right now very similarly to the 2011-12 OKC Thunder.


That team had KD, Harden, Westbrook, Ibaka and Reggie Jackson.

They SHOULD have won multiple championships, but they didn't keep them together. We've got a kind of similar situation where we have some younger guys coming into their own (Ayton, Bridges, CamJo, Payne) and I think we need to make sure we lock them up, because all of those guys genuinely have a chance to become star players.

We could have our OWN super team that we built through the draft. Book is already an All-Star. Payne could easily be 6MOTY next season. Ayton is showing he's one of the best 2 way bigs in the league. Bridges could be the next Kawhi, and will probably be All-Defense next year. CamJo is only in his second year and already looks mature and like he could potentially become a TJ Warren type scorer with better defense.

We gotta keep that group together, or we'll be wondering what could have been. If this was a team where some of these guys were 29-31 and up for their next big contract, I'd say okay we need to think about long term investment and the future.

But this group IS the future, they're young, hungry and extremely talented. Pay them their f***ing money.

[irish22022]

Not saying I don't love our team because I do. But the money isn't there to sign all these guys long term, and frankly, we could stand to get a little better too. We are playing some less than full strength teams and while that isn't our fault, it is the case.

If bridges wants 25 mil a year and ayton wants the max, we are in real trouble in terms of keeping these guys. Guys who will take the BAE or minimum can stay. But no more jevon carter contracts. We don't have the cash.

CP 3/100 is fine, but it'll need to be frontloaded. And c'mon guys, cam Payne isn't playing for under 10 mil next season.

What backup PG contract from the last few years is going to be used as the model for Payne? No backup point not named Jordan Clarkson has gotten a multiyear deal for over about $9m/per in the last few seasons. Teams use the market, and previous contracts to determine player value. It would be very our of character for anyone to come and offer Payne more than the top end of the backup PG market at this point.

I think he'll get close to $10m/per, but I also think the Suns are more than happy to pay him that.

Unless some team thinks he can be a starter from Day 1 (which would be wild considering the sample size of him starting, is I think 3 games), he'll get $10million or less.

Cam Payne will absolutely get a starting job if he wants one. This is the path for backups. Bledsoe did the same thing. Rozier, too. An upstart team like the Knicks will be happy to pay him. He'll be a cheap starter at 14 mil a year.

[irish22022]

I think we're ok salary cap wise because we can pay our core players 95% of the luxury cap and fill out with minimums from James Jones specials.

Luxury tax in 2023 may be around $143m.

Booker 34
Paul 30
Ayton 29
Bridges 20
Crowder 9
Payne 9
Johnson 6
= $137m

Plus 8 Minimums gets us roughly to $152m.

If we believe Sarver then $9m over the luxury cap is probably a relief to him and on the lighter side.

The player cost of this would be losing Saric, Carter and Smith.

You're shaving off a few million from all of those for math purposes or what? CP is getting 3/100. You really think ayton is gonna sign 29 mil when he knows he's the second or third best center in the league? Gobert signed a supermax didn't he? People are highly underestimating how much ayton will fetch. Bridges for 20? You don't think he sees what he does for us? Everyone throwing out 4/80 for bridges. Try 4/110.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Year 1 max is $29m for Ayton.

Not going to bother explaining the rest given I don't want to read anything more from you.

[Barkley6]

Not saying I don't love our team because I do. But the money isn't there to sign all these guys long term, and frankly, we could stand to get a little better too. We are playing some less than full strength teams and while that isn't our fault, it is the case.

If bridges wants 25 mil a year and ayton wants the max, we are in real trouble in terms of keeping these guys. Guys who will take the BAE or minimum can stay. But no more jevon carter contracts. We don't have the cash.

CP 3/100 is fine, but it'll need to be frontloaded. And c'mon guys, cam Payne isn't playing for under 10 mil next season.

What backup PG contract from the last few years is going to be used as the model for Payne? No backup point not named Jordan Clarkson has gotten a multiyear deal for over about $9m/per in the last few seasons. Teams use the market, and previous contracts to determine player value. It would be very our of character for anyone to come and offer Payne more than the top end of the backup PG market at this point.

I think he'll get close to $10m/per, but I also think the Suns are more than happy to pay him that.

Unless some team thinks he can be a starter from Day 1 (which would be wild considering the sample size of him starting, is I think 3 games), he'll get $10million or less.

Cam Payne will absolutely get a starting job if he wants one. This is the path for backups. Bledsoe did the same thing. Rozier, too. An upstart team like the Knicks will be happy to pay him. He'll be a cheap starter at 14 mil a year.

Bledsoe had been a backup for 3 years, and was still on his rookie deal when Phoenix made the trade for him to be our starter. If it didn't work out, it would have been easy to sign him to a small deal as a RFA, or not tenure him, it was low risk.

Rozier was a backup for 3 years before he signed to be a starter in FA.

That's A LOT different than making a guy who has really only had one good NBA season, and was playing in China a year ago, and has never averaged double figure points or assists to a big money deal to be your starter.

I LOVE Cam, and if the Suns bring him back, I'm planning to get a Cam Payne jersey, but I just don't think anyone is hitching their wagon to him as a starting PG just yet.

That's A LOT different than committing

[BobbieL]

We might need to think about packaging our picks to clear up salary.

Saric and Carter are unfortunately the heavy weight not adding up to production on the court.

Booker/CP3/Payne with Bridges backing up some of the 2 can easily take over much of the 96 minutes at the 1/2 spot.

Saric is a nice option at backup C but not worth 11m. Get Stix out there or find a cheaper vet.

I do wonder if there is the thought of maybe taking that late FRP (what a great thing that is) and trading back - getting a couple seconds. One you can stash overseas. Wouldn't have the same guarantees as a FRP

[irish22022]

Year 1 max is $29m for Ayton.

Not going to bother explaining the rest given I don't want to read anything more from you.

LoL the easy way out. Cam for 9 and bridges for 20. Care to make a wager?

[Walt_Uoob]

Totally agree that Payne is on a different trajectory from those other examples and unlikely to get handed a starting role or big money. But also now that I read the last several pages of this thread and look at our salary situation going forward, we do need to pay what it takes to keep him on board for the next few years, because it will be extremely hard to bring in another good point guard with only the MLE to work with. He's worth more to us than he would be to most other teams, but in this case that also means the opportunity cost of losing him is extra high because he'd be hard to replace, so we probably don't end up with a bargain signing, just a fair deal for a mid-high-level backup PG and spot starter. I'm guessing right around that Crowder/Saric level.

[BobbieL]

What backup PG contract from the last few years is going to be used as the model for Payne? No backup point not named Jordan Clarkson has gotten a multiyear deal for over about $9m/per in the last few seasons. Teams use the market, and previous contracts to determine player value. It would be very our of character for anyone to come and offer Payne more than the top end of the backup PG market at this point.

I think he'll get close to $10m/per, but I also think the Suns are more than happy to pay him that.

Unless some team thinks he can be a starter from Day 1 (which would be wild considering the sample size of him starting, is I think 3 games), he'll get $10million or less.

Cam Payne will absolutely get a starting job if he wants one. This is the path for backups. Bledsoe did the same thing. Rozier, too. An upstart team like the Knicks will be happy to pay him. He'll be a cheap starter at 14 mil a year.

Bledsoe had been a backup for 3 years, and was still on his rookie deal when Phoenix made the trade for him to be our starter. If it didn't work out, it would have been easy to sign him to a small deal as a RFA, or not tenure him, it was low risk.

Rozier was a backup for 3 years before he signed to be a starter in FA.

That's A LOT different than making a guy who has really only had one good NBA season, and was playing in China a year ago, and has never averaged double figure points or assists to a big money deal to be your starter.

I LOVE Cam, and if the Suns bring him back, I'm planning to get a Cam Payne jersey, but I just don't think anyone is hitching their wagon to him as a starting PG just yet.

That's A LOT different than committing

I see Cam as more a good third guy, sixth man type. I don't see him as a true PG. And though the first 45 minutes of the game - he was very good. He also was ball dominant going to the basket and scoring. Which was great and needed with Paul out. But the alst few minutes - the offense got stagnant and a big reason why was he stopped the ball and dribbled too much. I am not trying to bag on him - I just see his value as more 6th man than starting PG. I hope he is back too - as he is a really good third guy.

[sunsbg]

Year 1 max is $29m for Ayton.

Not going to bother explaining the rest given I don't want to read anything more from you.

LoL the easy way out. Cam for 9 and bridges for 20. Care to make a wager?

Bridges is closer to 20 than 27.

[bwgood77]

I think Payne could find a decent contract this summer, he 26 and a guy who can hit 3s and get to the hole on a pick and roll is valuable in today's NBA. It's possible he gets something above the $10ish mil the suns can offer with early bird rights and if he does I wouldn't blame him for taking it.

I'd love a 2yr 20 mil type deal. Could make sense for both sides, suns keep some flexibility going forward and if Payne keeps assending as a player he get a bigger payday in 2 years.

If they do happen to lose Payne then backup PG is absolutely the #1 priority add this off-season.

Craig I'd bring back on if he's cheap, minimum or something Carters deal. He too might find more on the open market and if so I'd let him walk.

I think the suns will keep the core of this team together but they should definitely turn some of the roster. It's good to get some fresh blood in to keep things from getting stale.


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What team for Payne though? Don't you think a team ready to take the next playoff step will go for maybe a more steady vet like we did? Do you think he's a better option for a team like NY than say Lowry? Or Graham, Schroder or Ball?

I could maybe see it based on him showing he can do it in the playoffs, but not sure. I would try and secure Payne for longer, or at least the exact same timeline as Paul, so when Paul expires, we could likely have the space to re-sign Payne again.

I still think he stays unless the money is significantly more and he is excited about a new opportunity.

But a guy like him, out of the league, never making a lot of money, loving the team, Monty, learning under Paul, etc, I think him getting $25 million over 3 or something would be good for him. And if a team offered a little more no big deal if he raise it by a million a year.

I don't see him getting like $15 a year or anything like that.

[NapoleonII]

Cam Payne should have been locked up for 2-3 years, not Carter.

[bwgood77]

I know nothing about NFL, I don't understand the comparison.....can someone enlighten me?

Seahawks were not that great until they got a new coach but mainly drafting a young QB, not even that high, but he proved to be great immediately. Gave the team confidence they could be in any game.

However, even though you can compare him to Paul, Paul is a savvy vet while Russell Wilson, their QB, elevated them quickly into a contender while their other young players started to peak at the same time.

[bwgood77]

Not saying I don't love our team because I do. But the money isn't there to sign all these guys long term, and frankly, we could stand to get a little better too. We are playing some less than full strength teams and while that isn't our fault, it is the case.

If bridges wants 25 mil a year and ayton wants the max, we are in real trouble in terms of keeping these guys. Guys who will take the BAE or minimum can stay. But no more jevon carter contracts. We don't have the cash.

CP 3/100 is fine, but it'll need to be frontloaded. And c'mon guys, cam Payne isn't playing for under 10 mil next season.

You can't frontload much. Maybe something like 35/33/31. Max raises/decreases are 8% a year or so.

Need to keep Ayton and Bridges. Even in a poll of who would you keep after another year...Bridges or Paul, people here voted like 25-1 Bridges over Paul.

You get rid of the guys who are not real differences. Sure Saric has looked better but a couple nights ago is what he is getting paid for. Or maybe he still underperforms the contract a ton. Now would be a good time to trade him...but more likely next summer when extensions kick in with one more year left on his contract. I know Monty loves him so who knows?

I hope Paul picks up his option. Then we look at next year. I think he'd still want to stay but we have no idea what he will look like then or his health either, but more importantly, if we have said to him "hey, instead of 3/90 now) how about you pick up $45 option and sign for 22.5 per the next two years next offseason (declining at like 23.5 to 21.5)? Same total dollar amount. Or if it's 3/100 same deal....pick up option and get avg of $27.5 for year for two, declining.