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MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021

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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1341 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:15 pm

HeatingUp3 wrote:Lol Sexton? You think SEXTON is your "win now" answer? I rather keep Herro thank you very much. Keep him until a REAL star will be available. You don't trade your best asset for a Collin Sexton.



We're not getting a "real star" for Herro.

Sexton is probably the best Herro could net, if he can even net that.

And even if you believe Herro could net a better player, we don't have 2-3 years to wait for that imaginary trade to happen - Jimmy is exiting his prime as we speak.


Go for it now, or just rebuild in 3-4 years.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1342 » by IceColdCubano » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:17 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:In the last 3 season Lowry averages 16 PPG.

He's also getting old fast.

I don't care how smart he is or what a winner he is (he's both of those) - we just can't win with that kind of modest scoring from our PG. Not with that roster.

Thank you, I keep seeing the trades on our forums as the number one fish to pick up.
He is not moving our needle and will take up too much cap space, very little bang for your buck.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1343 » by Flash4thewin » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:21 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:How would you feel about :

Dragic + Iggy + Herro

For

K.Love + Sexton

Love has 2 years left, but he might bounce back some playing for a legit team. On paper he's a fit. He put up 18 and 9 the season before last.

Sexton
Duncan
Jimmy
Love
Bam


I think the Cavs will want more but I get it. It sorta makes sense. It gives us offense for sure. We get the best player in the trade. I would worry about Butler and Love, love has quit quite a few times on the cavs. How would Butker react if Love has a mental relaps? I don’t hate it and the trade is great for us but I’m sure the Cavs can get better offers.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1344 » by Kobewade11 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:21 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:In the last 3 season Lowry averages 16 PPG.

He's also getting old fast.

I don't care how smart he is or what a winner he is (he's both of those) - we just can't win with that kind of modest scoring from our PG. Not with that roster.

Chris Paul averaged 15 ppg in the regular season. Granted Booker and Ayton averaged 27 and 16 respectively, you dont think Jimmy, Bam and Herro can produce 50+ between the three of them?
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1345 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:23 pm

I'd trade Herro for Sexton if Cleveland is actually willing to comply, then push to acquire Porzingis. Re-sign Dipo

It doesn't guarantee anything and there's a lot of risk, but it seems like the most realistic opportunity for upside to raise this team's ceiling. Like if only 2 of those 3 moves pan out then we're in a pretty good spot
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1346 » by IceColdCubano » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:24 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
HeatingUp3 wrote:Lol Sexton? You think SEXTON is your "win now" answer? I rather keep Herro thank you very much. Keep him until a REAL star will be available. You don't trade your best asset for a Collin Sexton.



We're not getting a "real star" for Herro.

Sexton is probably the best Herro could net, if he can even net that.

And even if you believe Herro could net a better player, we don't have 2-3 years to wait for that imaginary trade to happen - Jimmy is exiting his prime as we speak.


Go for it now, or just rebuild in 3-4 years.

I don't think were in a position to trade for anything of worth, it sucks for Jimmy's prime.
I think we ride this out and wait and struggle for a bit let our young guys get better or build value.
Making lateral changes like last year are not worth it. Biggest difference from our team from bubble is the vets regressed as they should based on age. Our young guys that stood out were scouted better and will need to modify their game based on how teams played them this last year and will need to continue to evolve their game.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1347 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:29 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
HeatingUp3 wrote:Lol Sexton? You think SEXTON is your "win now" answer? I rather keep Herro thank you very much. Keep him until a REAL star will be available. You don't trade your best asset for a Collin Sexton.



We're not getting a "real star" for Herro.

Sexton is probably the best Herro could net, if he can even net that.

And even if you believe Herro could net a better player, we don't have 2-3 years to wait for that imaginary trade to happen - Jimmy is exiting his prime as we speak.


Go for it now, or just rebuild in 3-4 years.

Exactly. I don’t think Herro can even net Sexton as well. Sexton is coming off a year where he scored 24.3PPG. Call him a looter in a riot all you want but the kid can score and with a good percentage rate. I would love to get Sexton down here but the reality of the situation is we might not have what the Cavs want and they’ll also have many other teams in the bidding. The Bulls,Knicks, Sixers, and Lakers S&T Schroder will be looking to make moves on a PG. Those team including ourselves will be vying for Lowry, Dinwiddie, Schroder and now Sexton. The Cavs will almost certainly be looking to attach Love. The Sixers offering up Simmons to the Cavs with a pick for Love and Sexton makes a lot of sense. Rich Paul has to be working behind the scenes to get his client out of Philly and the Cavs seem like a perfect low pressure spot to get him right. He’ll also be teamed up with Paul client Garland.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1348 » by IceColdCubano » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:30 pm

Kobewade11 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:In the last 3 season Lowry averages 16 PPG.

He's also getting old fast.

I don't care how smart he is or what a winner he is (he's both of those) - we just can't win with that kind of modest scoring from our PG. Not with that roster.

Chris Paul averaged 15 ppg in the regular season. Granted Booker and Ayton averaged 27 and 16 respectively, you dont think Jimmy, Bam and Herro can produce 50+ between the three of them?

Were doing terribly if those guys are averaging 50 between those three.
Jimmy 25, Bam 20, Herro 20 (we should be 60-65 between those three). We don't have the scorers off the bench other teams have to make up the difference. The next guys up who will score in the teens will be Robinson, Nunn if we can keep them.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1349 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:33 pm

Kobewade11 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:In the last 3 season Lowry averages 16 PPG.

He's also getting old fast.

I don't care how smart he is or what a winner he is (he's both of those) - we just can't win with that kind of modest scoring from our PG. Not with that roster.

Chris Paul averaged 15 ppg in the regular season. Granted Booker and Ayton averaged 27 and 16 respectively, you dont think Jimmy, Bam and Herro can produce 50+ between the three of them?


Lowry, at this stage in his career is at best - I think we'll agree - a third option.

I don't think you'd win anything big if your 2 top best scorers are Jimmy and Bam unless they both make huge shooting improvements this summer.

Duncan is limited in volume because he can't create for himself. He'll be efficient but won't score a ton regardless.
Whoever we sign to play the big role next to Bam won't score a lot - because you don't get elite scoring for MLE money.

That's why I'm starting the Sexton/Love bandwagon - I think that's the most scoring we could possibly add. And one of them is actually a plus defender. If we're able to not take on Love's contract's - that's great. But I think that's the price the Cavs demand.

Love would be grossly overpaid - but if we're lucky and he has something left he could give you 18 PPG on good efficiency. Not sure what big we could play next to Bam that gives us anything on offense. And again, taking Love is the price of getting Sexton - who IMO is the best option we have at PG (a HUGE need of ours). He's a much better option then Lowry/Conley/Lonzo/Nunn.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1350 » by Kobewade11 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:36 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
Kobewade11 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:In the last 3 season Lowry averages 16 PPG.

He's also getting old fast.

I don't care how smart he is or what a winner he is (he's both of those) - we just can't win with that kind of modest scoring from our PG. Not with that roster.

Chris Paul averaged 15 ppg in the regular season. Granted Booker and Ayton averaged 27 and 16 respectively, you dont think Jimmy, Bam and Herro can produce 50+ between the three of them?

Were doing terribly if those guys are averaging 50 between those three.
Jimmy 25, Bam 20, Herro 20 (we should be 60-65 between those three). We don't have the scorers off the bench other teams have to make up the difference. The next guys up who will score in the teens will be Robinson, Nunn if we can keep them.

I said 50+. In no way was 50 meant to be a “ceiling”
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1351 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:36 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:How would you feel about :

Dragic + Iggy + Herro

For

K.Love + Sexton

Love has 2 years left, but he might bounce back some playing for a legit team. On paper he's a fit. He put up 18 and 9 the season before last.

Sexton
Duncan
Jimmy
Love
Bam


I think the Cavs will want more but I get it. It sorta makes sense. It gives us offense for sure. We get the best player in the trade. I would worry about Butler and Love, love has quit quite a few times on the cavs. How would Butker react if Love has a mental relaps? I don’t hate it and the trade is great for us but I’m sure the Cavs can get better offers.

Love pulled what Blake was doing with the Pistons. Doubtful he would do that under different circumstances. Especially if given chance to play with us.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1352 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:42 pm

And it's not like I'm a huge K.Love fan. But show me a better starting lineup then

Sexton
Duncan
Jimmy
Love
Bam


Who are we getting? Do you think 35 old Lowry is better then Sexton? You want Nunn to start?

Do you think we'll sign a legit big to play next to Bam? Someone better then Love? for what money? could he provide spacing? Who is that guy?
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1353 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:54 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:And it's not like I'm a huge K.Love fan. But show me a better starting lineup then

Sexton
Duncan
Jimmy
Love
Bam


Who are we getting? Do you think 35 old Lowry is better then Sexton? You want Nunn to start?

Do you think we'll sign a legit big to play next to Bam? Someone better then Love? for what money? could he provide spacing? Who is that guy?

If we can make a trade for Sexton and Love I say we do it and don't look back. Might have to take a third team but whatever it is I can live with that starting lineup next year.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1354 » by AirP. » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:57 pm

Kobewade11 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:
5) Allows us to keep Duncan next to him. Herro can't play next to Duncan IMO.


This is a big part of our problem right here, trying to feature a one-dimensional player as a vital offensive piece. Duncan should be coming off the bench if anything, he's nobody to be worried about who can play next to him. Only time a guy like that should be in your starting lineup is if you have two supreme scorers which we don't.


It's my opinion that Spoelstra is using Duncan to enhance Bam on the offensive end by running DHOs. Honestly, I think Bam is fine ending plays, I don't think he's good or even acceptable finding his own offense unless it's a jumper so to keep Bam useful in the offense he has to have the ball or is setting up a pick and roll.

If you look at Bam's minutes the last 2 seasons, he's mostly played with 3 players when available, Robinson, Butler and Nunn. Of course Butler and Bam make sense, Robinson is in there to enhance Bam with the DHOs and also Nunn is in there because how Butler and Bam are utilized, they needed a guy looking for his own shot at PG. Had Herro not been so lackadaisical with his passing and so bad on defense the scoring PG job would be his moving forward but the 2 weaknesses really hurt the team when he's on the court.

Now, back to Bam and Robinson, they are the highest 2 man combo with minutes on the team by far for the last 2 seasons.
2019-2020
2417 minutes, 1608 with Robinson (72 games, average 22.3 minutes)
2020-2021
2143 minutes, 1644 with Robinson (64 games, average 25.7 minutes)
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1355 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:15 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:And it's not like I'm a huge K.Love fan. But show me a better starting lineup then

Sexton
Duncan
Jimmy
Love
Bam


Who are we getting? Do you think 35 old Lowry is better then Sexton? You want Nunn to start?

Do you think we'll sign a legit big to play next to Bam? Someone better then Love? for what money? could he provide spacing? Who is that guy?

If we can make a trade for Sexton and Love I say we do it and don't look back. Might have to take a third team but whatever it is I can live with that starting lineup next year.



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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1356 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:32 pm

I would watch out for the Lakers in any deal involving Sexton and Love. I could imagine Lebron would be clamoring to save Love and bring him back home to California for one last run. Lakers seem ready and willing to move on from Schroder.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1357 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:32 pm

viewtopic.php?p=92028614#p92028614

Great idea for us right there
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1358 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:34 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:I would watch out for the Lakers in any deal involving Sexton and Love. I could imagine Lebron would be clamoring to save Love and bring him back home to California for one last run. Lakers seem ready and willing to move on from Schroder.



Lakers have no assets at all, why should Cavs want Schroder? even if they did, they could just sign him into space. But they have Garland.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1359 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:36 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I would watch out for the Lakers in any deal involving Sexton and Love. I could imagine Lebron would be clamoring to save Love and bring him back home to California for one last run. Lakers seem ready and willing to move on from Schroder.



Lakers have no assets at all, why should Cavs want Schroder? even if they did, they could just sign him into space. But they have Garland.

They have Kyle Kuzma who would probably be a perfect fit at a position of need for the Cavs and they have also been rumored to wanting Alex Caruso. Achuiwa on the other hand is an awful fit next to Allen. If Achuiwa can't play with Bam I see no way the Cavs interested in that pairing. Schroder would be rerouted via S&T to a third team to make the salaries work. The Cavs imo will be looking at getting a stretch 4 or a playmaking forward with size.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 

Post#1360 » by Hallstar » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:13 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:Reason I'd do a Herro for Sexton trade :

1) Sexton is more "win now" ready. He put up 24 PPG on good efficiency last year on a bad team.

2) I have a lot less defensive concenrs about him. Herro is awful on defense, Sexton is probably a plus defender in our system.

3) Rumblings are Herro lost focus. Sexton looks like a classic Heat player, guy is hard nosed and intense.

4) He's improved considerably every year, I think he'll continue to get better here.

5) Allows us to keep Duncan next to him. Herro can't play next to Duncan IMO.

Herro gave us 17/6/4 as a starter

Only reason he lost his spot is because of Spo's juggling..

I have ZERO doubt he can give you near Sexton's numbers on the Cavs where you just roll the ball out there and go do whatever.



This is the game I saw what Herro looks like when not waiting in the corner for the dribble handoffs to break down

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