OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In

[HarthorneWingo]

They probably preferred Chauvin get Death by Ugu.

Is that entirely off the table, unofficially?

In reality, no, it isn't off the table.

Prison can be a very dangerous environment for cops, where they are routinely abused by the other inmates (because they're cops). A special torment is reserved for prisoners who kill children and for infamous murderers, like Chauvin. He will struggle in prison and possible not make it out alive.

I recall the cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer, who was killed in prison. There was almost no investigation of what happened, and there was no outcry that there was no real investigation. Derek Chauvin should be thinking of this for the rest of his days on earth, as well as how he snuffed out a human life without any justification whatsoever.

Chauvin will either align himself with the skinheads or ask for solitary. But if they want to get him, they’ll eventually get to him.

Isn’t there still a federal investigation still open on this case?

[BKlutch]

Is that entirely off the table, unofficially?

In reality, no, it isn't off the table.

Prison can be a very dangerous environment for cops, where they are routinely abused by the other inmates (because they're cops). A special torment is reserved for prisoners who kill children and for infamous murderers, like Chauvin. He will struggle in prison and possible not make it out alive.

I recall the cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer, who was killed in prison. There was almost no investigation of what happened, and there was no outcry that there was no real investigation. Derek Chauvin should be thinking of this for the rest of his days on earth, as well as how he snuffed out a human life without any justification whatsoever.

Chauvin will either align himself with the skinheads or ask for solitary. But if they want to get him, they’ll eventually get to him.

Isn’t there still a federal investigation still open on this case?

It's fine if we wait for the post mortem.They should examine the brain to see what abnormality is associated with his particular psychopathology.

[ellobo]

In reality, no, it isn't off the table.

Prison can be a very dangerous environment for cops, where they are routinely abused by the other inmates (because they're cops). A special torment is reserved for prisoners who kill children and for infamous murderers, like Chauvin. He will struggle in prison and possible not make it out alive.

I recall the cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer, who was killed in prison. There was almost no investigation of what happened, and there was no outcry that there was no real investigation. Derek Chauvin should be thinking of this for the rest of his days on earth, as well as how he snuffed out a human life without any justification whatsoever.

Chauvin will either align himself with the skinheads or ask for solitary. But if they want to get him, they’ll eventually get to him.

Isn’t there still a federal investigation still open on this case?

It's fine if we wait for the post mortem.They should examine the brain to see what abnormality is associated with his particular psychopathology.

I suspect the pathology is not physiological.

And I'm afraid "abnormality" is not the applicable term.

[BKlutch]

Chauvin will either align himself with the skinheads or ask for solitary. But if they want to get him, they’ll eventually get to him.

Isn’t there still a federal investigation still open on this case?

It's fine if we wait for the post mortem.They should examine the brain to see what abnormality is associated with his particular psychopathology.

I suspect the pathology is not physiological.

And I'm afraid "abnormality" is not the applicable term.

Well he sure as hell is one sick bastard. Whether we can learn the cause of this or not remains to be seen.

[robillionaire]

It's fine if we wait for the post mortem.They should examine the brain to see what abnormality is associated with his particular psychopathology.

I suspect the pathology is not physiological.

And I'm afraid "abnormality" is not the applicable term.

Well he sure as hell is one sick bastard. Whether we can learn the cause of this or not remains to be seen.

I don’t have time for a more thoughtful answer because I’m eating, but I say don’t worry about examining his brain just examine history and society, behaviors are usually a product of their environment. I mean we aren’t even a few generations removed from a colonial genocide and slavery followed up by a racial caste system with Jim Crow that still has different forms in place today and we are really sitting here scratching our heads as to how this could happen? How could a cop (which started in the US as runaway slave patrols) possibly think they could kill a black man with no consequences? This is one of the rare times a cop was held accountable, and cops are quitting because of it. That says a lot. There are many other factors in history but the answers can be found when you examine our surroundings

[BKlutch]

I suspect the pathology is not physiological.

And I'm afraid "abnormality" is not the applicable term.

Well he sure as hell is one sick bastard. Whether we can learn the cause of this or not remains to be seen.

I don’t have time for a more thoughtful answer because I’m eating, but I say don’t worry about examining his brain just examine history and society, behaviors are usually a product of their environment. I mean we aren’t even a few generations removed from a colonial genocide and slavery followed up by a racial caste system with Jim Crow that still has different forms in place today and we are really sitting here scratching our heads as to how this could happen? How could a cop (which started in the US as runaway slave patrols) possibly think they could kill a black man with no consequences? This is one of the rare times a cop was held accountable, and cops are quitting because of it. That says a lot. There are many other factors in history but the answers can be found when you examine our surroundings

So what causes people to have irrational hatred of others based on race, religion, etc? What causes some to kill and others to become mass murderers or commit genocide? I'd hate to think that those who do this are normal. Our inability to understand why people do this does not mean there's no reason - it's just we don't know what that reason is. I think we should investigate all avenues until we learn how to prevent this kind of abhorrent behavior.

I'd be willing to bet that if you looked 1000 radome people, not one of them would murder others for no cause. So it's rare, and most people - no matter how racist - would ever do this thing. Why can some do it? I think that all of us, and not just psychologists, would love to know the answer.

[thebuzzardman]

Well he sure as hell is one sick bastard. Whether we can learn the cause of this or not remains to be seen.

I don’t have time for a more thoughtful answer because I’m eating, but I say don’t worry about examining his brain just examine history and society, behaviors are usually a product of their environment. I mean we aren’t even a few generations removed from a colonial genocide and slavery followed up by a racial caste system with Jim Crow that still has different forms in place today and we are really sitting here scratching our heads as to how this could happen? How could a cop (which started in the US as runaway slave patrols) possibly think they could kill a black man with no consequences? This is one of the rare times a cop was held accountable, and cops are quitting because of it. That says a lot. There are many other factors in history but the answers can be found when you examine our surroundings

So what causes people to have irrational hatred of others based on race, religion, etc? What causes some to kill and others to become mass murderers or commit genocide? I'd hate to think that those who do this are normal. Our inability to understand why people do this does not mean there's no reason - it's just we don't know what that reason is. I think we should investigate all avenues until we learn how to prevent this kind of abhorrent behavior.

I'd be willing to bet that if you looked 1000 radome people, not one of them would murder others for no cause. So it's rare, and most people - no matter how racist - would ever do this thing. Why can some do it? I think that all of us, and not just psychologists, would love to know the answer.

It's as normal as breathing, I'd say.

There is no way I'm going to be able to give an answer here that is thoughtful enough because it would take thousands of pages, no less words.

I'd say humans are wired towards categorizing things as a daily survival mechanism\evolutionary survival trait. I'm sure there are others here who could articulate it better, but our brain has to organize millions of bits of incoming data, so the central part of the brain organizes stuff into categories so we don't have to reconsider every "tree/car/street/cat/grass/whatever/those people" we see. Between that and probably deep seated group\tribal survival mechanisms where we relentlessly sort for "not quite normal" or "not quite part of the group" whether it be for disease/can we trust the outsider etc - there is a BASE part of human behavior that's a little big ugly and has to be overcome.

Overcome is the key word. For all it's faults, religion is an example of trying to overcome base desires to get towards our higher possibilities. "I want to f*ck the neighbors wife", "I want to kill that dude", "I think I'll take all the money and screw everyone over" - these are all things humans want to do. Obviously there's a whole other part of human behavior where we are wired to cooperate and we are clearly pack animals. But packs have hierarchies, unfortunately. Again, this is the base side. Religion, philosophies, being a secular humanist - whatever - these are efforts to acknowledge the base instincts and then get to a higher plane. The smart ones acknowledge the presences of the bad base stuff and that it takes some work to get to the higher stuff. With some forgiveness in CERTAIN scenarios that people are going to slip. And also certain stuff that is just straight out unforgivable.

So, you are correct - SOCIETY and it's values\mores\rules\laws etc are what we decide what we are going to tolerate, who is going to be the out group etc etc.

This is ZERO rationalization for Chauvin. He's a sh*t human being. He's holding onto a way of thinking LONG past it's due date, though unfortunately he's not alone and this stuff is the USA seems to ebb and flow in viability to people, especially when it's encouraged. Also, that's taking into account racism is - as you guys covered - deeply woven into our history in spite of it also being founded on greater freedoms - at least for some.

Not related to any of the above, but it's always puzzling when people say "Well, the racism was much worse and we've solved it" or "It WAS much worse and it's still here but hardly". I mean, isn't it possible that it WAS much worse, a lot of progress was made, but there's still a lot of work to do? It's not that complicated a concept.

[BKlutch]

I don’t have time for a more thoughtful answer because I’m eating, but I say don’t worry about examining his brain just examine history and society, behaviors are usually a product of their environment. I mean we aren’t even a few generations removed from a colonial genocide and slavery followed up by a racial caste system with Jim Crow that still has different forms in place today and we are really sitting here scratching our heads as to how this could happen? How could a cop (which started in the US as runaway slave patrols) possibly think they could kill a black man with no consequences? This is one of the rare times a cop was held accountable, and cops are quitting because of it. That says a lot. There are many other factors in history but the answers can be found when you examine our surroundings

So what causes people to have irrational hatred of others based on race, religion, etc? What causes some to kill and others to become mass murderers or commit genocide? I'd hate to think that those who do this are normal. Our inability to understand why people do this does not mean there's no reason - it's just we don't know what that reason is. I think we should investigate all avenues until we learn how to prevent this kind of abhorrent behavior.

I'd be willing to bet that if you looked 1000 radome people, not one of them would murder others for no cause. So it's rare, and most people - no matter how racist - would ever do this thing. Why can some do it? I think that all of us, and not just psychologists, would love to know the answer.

It's as normal as breathing, I'd say.

There is no way I'm going to be able to give an answer here that is thoughtful enough because it would take thousands of pages, no less words.

I'd say humans are wired towards categorizing things as a daily survival mechanism\evolutionary survival trait. I'm sure there are others here who could articulate it better, but our brain has to organize millions of bits of incoming data, so the central part of the brain organizes stuff into categories so we don't have to reconsider every "tree/car/street/cat/grass/whatever/those people" we see. Between that and probably deep seated group\tribal survival mechanisms where we relentlessly sort for "not quite normal" or "not quite part of the group" whether it be for disease/can we trust the outsider etc - there is a BASE part of human behavior that's a little big ugly and has to be overcome.

Overcome is the key word. For all it's faults, religion is an example of trying to overcome base desires to get towards our higher possibilities. "I want to f*ck the neighbors wife", "I want to kill that dude", "I think I'll take all the money and screw everyone over" - these are all things humans want to do. Obviously there's a whole other part of human behavior where we are wired to cooperate and we are clearly pack animals. But packs have hierarchies, unfortunately. Again, this is the base side. Religion, philosophies, being a secular humanist - whatever - these are efforts to acknowledge the base instincts and then get to a higher plane. The smart ones acknowledge the presences of the bad base stuff and that it takes some work to get to the higher stuff. With some forgiveness in CERTAIN scenarios that people are going to slip. And also certain stuff that is just straight out unforgivable.

So, you are correct - SOCIETY and it's values\mores\rules\laws etc are what we decide what we are going to tolerate, who is going to be the out group etc etc.

This is ZERO rationalization for Chauvin. He's a sh*t human being. He's holding onto a way of thinking LONG past it's due date, though unfortunately he's not alone and this stuff is the USA seems to ebb and flow in viability to people, especially when it's encouraged. Also, that's taking into account racism is - as you guys covered - deeply woven into our history in spite of it also being founded on greater freedoms - at least for some.

Not related to any of the above, but it's always puzzling when people say "Well, the racism was much worse and we've solved it" or "It WAS much worse and it's still here but hardly". I mean, isn't it possible that it WAS much worse, a lot of progress was made, but there's still a lot of work to do? It's not that complicated a concept.

A lot of good stuff here in your answer. And you’re part way towards the 1000 pages already. So keep on going. Maybe you’ll discover something.

[robillionaire]

I don’t have time for a more thoughtful answer because I’m eating, but I say don’t worry about examining his brain just examine history and society, behaviors are usually a product of their environment. I mean we aren’t even a few generations removed from a colonial genocide and slavery followed up by a racial caste system with Jim Crow that still has different forms in place today and we are really sitting here scratching our heads as to how this could happen? How could a cop (which started in the US as runaway slave patrols) possibly think they could kill a black man with no consequences? This is one of the rare times a cop was held accountable, and cops are quitting because of it. That says a lot. There are many other factors in history but the answers can be found when you examine our surroundings

So what causes people to have irrational hatred of others based on race, religion, etc? What causes some to kill and others to become mass murderers or commit genocide? I'd hate to think that those who do this are normal. Our inability to understand why people do this does not mean there's no reason - it's just we don't know what that reason is. I think we should investigate all avenues until we learn how to prevent this kind of abhorrent behavior.

I'd be willing to bet that if you looked 1000 radome people, not one of them would murder others for no cause. So it's rare, and most people - no matter how racist - would ever do this thing. Why can some do it? I think that all of us, and not just psychologists, would love to know the answer.

It's as normal as breathing, I'd say.

There is no way I'm going to be able to give an answer here that is thoughtful enough because it would take thousands of pages, no less words.

I'd say humans are wired towards categorizing things as a daily survival mechanism\evolutionary survival trait. I'm sure there are others here who could articulate it better, but our brain has to organize millions of bits of incoming data, so the central part of the brain organizes stuff into categories so we don't have to reconsider every "tree/car/street/cat/grass/whatever/those people" we see. Between that and probably deep seated group\tribal survival mechanisms where we relentlessly sort for "not quite normal" or "not quite part of the group" whether it be for disease/can we trust the outsider etc - there is a BASE part of human behavior that's a little big ugly and has to be overcome.

Overcome is the key word. For all it's faults, religion is an example of trying to overcome base desires to get towards our higher possibilities. "I want to f*ck the neighbors wife", "I want to kill that dude", "I think I'll take all the money and screw everyone over" - these are all things humans want to do. Obviously there's a whole other part of human behavior where we are wired to cooperate and we are clearly pack animals. But packs have hierarchies, unfortunately. Again, this is the base side. Religion, philosophies, being a secular humanist - whatever - these are efforts to acknowledge the base instincts and then get to a higher plane. The smart ones acknowledge the presences of the bad base stuff and that it takes some work to get to the higher stuff. With some forgiveness in CERTAIN scenarios that people are going to slip. And also certain stuff that is just straight out unforgivable.

So, you are correct - SOCIETY and it's values\mores\rules\laws etc are what we decide what we are going to tolerate, who is going to be the out group etc etc.

This is ZERO rationalization for Chauvin. He's a sh*t human being. He's holding onto a way of thinking LONG past it's due date, though unfortunately he's not alone and this stuff is the USA seems to ebb and flow in viability to people, especially when it's encouraged. Also, that's taking into account racism is - as you guys covered - deeply woven into our history in spite of it also being founded on greater freedoms - at least for some.

Not related to any of the above, but it's always puzzling when people say "Well, the racism was much worse and we've solved it" or "It WAS much worse and it's still here but hardly". I mean, isn't it possible that it WAS much worse, a lot of progress was made, but there's still a lot of work to do? It's not that complicated a concept.

That’s a thought provoking post, I just don’t go that far on that position on human nature, although it is true as you say an evolutionary survival mechanism to fear strangers I do not believe we are all essentially born sociopaths and I do think humans are born with an innate sense of compassion and empathy or what you might call “fairness” and when we are then placed in an environment that not only doesn’t discourage selfish greedy or racist behaviors but actually fosters and rewards these kinds of behaviors, it does go against our true base instincts as humans as empathetic social beings who cooperate with one another

As far as these things such as screwing your neighbor’s wife, or killing someone, etc as being a base part of human behavior. if people need a religion to tell them not to do these things, or even some other logical construct, like if that’s the only thing holding them back from it, I am a little scared of those people. I don’t feel a base instinct to kill innocent people, do you? I mean I could go over the secular humanist reasoning why it’s immoral to kill someone because it would be harmful, but that’s ultimately not why I don’t do it. What I mean is that I don’t frequently have urges to kill my next door neighbor and take his car for a joyride but then have to talk myself out of it by going over the logical reasons why it would be immoral or consult religious doctrine telling me I can’t… I just don’t have a base desire to do these things.

I always thought Penn Jillete had a good take on that “The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don’t want to do that. Right now, without any god, I don’t want to jump across this table and strangle you. I have no desire to strangle you. I have no desire to flip you over and rape you. You know what I mean?”

And as well, you can substitute god in that for a secular based model of morality or whatever as well but I think the point is still the same