Olshey

[JasonStern]

The 76ers ended up using Covington as the main piece in a Jimmy Butler trade, so let's not pretend like ~2018 Robert Covington didn't have value.

Of course, there was also this idea back then that if we kept the Dame/CJ core together, we'd be seeing perennial first round playoff exits.

I don't want to get super into the weeds on this but Saric had a ton of value at the time and Jimmy Butler was refusing to show up to camp. Another team getting bent over a barrel isn't exactly reflective of value. No one is claiming the pieces traded for Harden are great because they were traded for Harden, that's not how you establish value.

Again, I did not say it was a bad trade, just an overpay. You said that was revisionist when our very thread in this forum seemed to be full of a good number of people who, at the time, agreed. I even acknowledged that working trades is an above average trait of Olshey with a B, but that he had a tendency to shy away from big deals.

You're correct that it wasn't a straight swap being proposed regarding CJ for Covington. Saric was probably also included in many of the proposals. There's nothing revisionist about this. There's literally a "CJ TRADE IDEAS" thread on this board right now. Same as there is every year, as a Dame+CJ duo taking up 2/3 of the cap is not a recipe for a championship. As such, there will almost always be people on RealGM supporting a CJ for nearly anyone trade. Hell, a few posters are okay trading him for Kevin Love's contract. (Not one-for-one, but still )

Regardless, Covington was used as the main trade piece in trades for Jimmy Butler, Malik Beasley, and two 1sts. Just because you don't value him much doesn't mean that other GMs don't. I don't think it was that much of an overpay given late 1sts tend to be a crapshoot and the move was made to try to appease Dame last off-season. Blazers got a starter in his prime on a cheap two year contract. Meanwhile, they already have Simons and Little (and Elleby) as development projects.

[Waynearchetype]

You're correct that it wasn't a straight swap being proposed regarding CJ for Covington. Saric was probably also included in many of the proposals. There's nothing revisionist about this. There's literally a "CJ TRADE IDEAS" thread on this board right now. Same as there is every year, as a Dame+CJ duo taking up 2/3 of the cap is not a recipe for a championship. As such, there will almost always be people on RealGM supporting a CJ for nearly anyone trade. Hell, a few posters are okay trading him for Kevin Love's contract. (Not one-for-one, but still )

Regardless, Covington was used as the main trade piece in trades for Jimmy Butler, Malik Beasley, and two 1sts. Just because you don't value him much doesn't mean that other GMs don't. I don't think it was that much of an overpay given late 1sts tend to be a crapshoot and the move was made to try to appease Dame last off-season. Blazers got a starter in his prime on a cheap two year contract. Meanwhile, they already have Simons and Little (and Elleby) as development projects.

I'm not really sure we're even arguing at this point. I think we mostly agree on more than we disagree. Covington was a good target, my opinion (and the same as others at the time of the trade) is that it was a bit of an overpay but not enough to make it a bad trade.

[monopoman]

I mean it appears that CJ for Simmons is far more feasible after the abysmal series that Simmons had against The Hawks. One of the rare series where a clearly superior team loses a series with home court advantage.

I'm not sure that Portland would be into this trade but I have a feeling that the Sixers would seriously consider the swap and it wouldn't require a heavy amount of assets beyond CJ to get it done.

I think Simmons in Philly is going to start to get really bad for him, and a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

[DusterBuster]

I mean it appears that CJ for Simmons is far more feasible after the abysmal series that Simmons had against The Hawks. One of the rare series where a clearly superior team loses a series with home court advantage.

I'm not sure that Portland would be into this trade but I have a feeling that the Sixers would seriously consider the swap and it wouldn't require a heavy amount of assets beyond CJ to get it done.

I think Simmons in Philly is going to start to get really bad for him, and a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I wonder if a 3 team deal could make sense… CJ to Philly, Simmons to another spot and that team sending a player or two to Portland?

[Soulyss]

I mean it appears that CJ for Simmons is far more feasible after the abysmal series that Simmons had against The Hawks. One of the rare series where a clearly superior team loses a series with home court advantage.

I'm not sure that Portland would be into this trade but I have a feeling that the Sixers would seriously consider the swap and it wouldn't require a heavy amount of assets beyond CJ to get it done.

I think Simmons in Philly is going to start to get really bad for him, and a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I don't think the "talking head" narrative around Simmons means anything. Simmons is worth a great deal more than CJ, and the Blazers simply don't have the assets to cover that gap regardless of Simmons deficiencies.

I do believe Simmons gets dealt, but it seriously doubt it will be the Blazers.

[Soulyss]

I mean it appears that CJ for Simmons is far more feasible after the abysmal series that Simmons had against The Hawks. One of the rare series where a clearly superior team loses a series with home court advantage.

I'm not sure that Portland would be into this trade but I have a feeling that the Sixers would seriously consider the swap and it wouldn't require a heavy amount of assets beyond CJ to get it done.

I think Simmons in Philly is going to start to get really bad for him, and a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I wonder if a 3 team deal could make sense… CJ to Philly, Simmons to another spot and that team sending a player or two to Portland?

This is the sort of deal that makes sense.

[Norm2953]

Perhaps but the weaknesses in Simmons game and his max contract might make him a toxic asset
this summer. Quite possibly CJ is the best asset they will be able to get unless they take on Westbrook.

[Waynearchetype]

I mean it appears that CJ for Simmons is far more feasible after the abysmal series that Simmons had against The Hawks. One of the rare series where a clearly superior team loses a series with home court advantage.

I'm not sure that Portland would be into this trade but I have a feeling that the Sixers would seriously consider the swap and it wouldn't require a heavy amount of assets beyond CJ to get it done.

I think Simmons in Philly is going to start to get really bad for him, and a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I don't think the "talking head" narrative around Simmons means anything. Simmons is worth a great deal more than CJ, and the Blazers simply don't have the assets to cover that gap regardless of Simmons deficiencies.

I do believe Simmons gets dealt, but it seriously doubt it will be the Blazers.

A narrative implies some sort of story. It's not really a story if everyone knows, and the stats back it up, that Ben can't shoot. Bens perceived value has always been on his skillset + his youth (offsetting his weakness with the idea that surely a professional will get better at this certain thing). His youth isn't really working for him anymore.

[monopoman]

I mean it appears that CJ for Simmons is far more feasible after the abysmal series that Simmons had against The Hawks. One of the rare series where a clearly superior team loses a series with home court advantage.

I'm not sure that Portland would be into this trade but I have a feeling that the Sixers would seriously consider the swap and it wouldn't require a heavy amount of assets beyond CJ to get it done.

I think Simmons in Philly is going to start to get really bad for him, and a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I don't think the "talking head" narrative around Simmons means anything. Simmons is worth a great deal more than CJ, and the Blazers simply don't have the assets to cover that gap regardless of Simmons deficiencies.

I do believe Simmons gets dealt, but it seriously doubt it will be the Blazers.

Did you see how poorly he played in game 7? I think he is a very difficult player to utilize, and that his value has dropped tremendously. He refuses to shoot the 3 or to add an outside range to his game, and he also sucks at shooting FT's. I don't think any team is salivating at the mouth at the thought of adding Simmons to their roster.

****, he is one of the few players in the league with great potential that hasn't really added anything to his game since his rookie season. He is the antithesis of the vast majority of all-stars or superstars in the NBA.

I also do get a laugh when people claim I am being ridiculous saying CJ for Simmons is close in value when they can't even find other trade scenarios that are legitimate that another team will actually put on the table. Player value is not the same at all times, there are times when a player might fetch more or less depending on any number of factors.

The same way I can sell a car worth $20k for $17k at times depending, and might even sell it for a bit more at other times.

[Case2012]

On the surface I like Simmons playmaking and defense in a potential Draymond green role, but the guy has zero heart and work ethic which is the opposite of Green. He's anti clutch. Why would we want a player that's afraid of big moments to be a franchise corner stone? If we were trading CJ to Philly I'd want Harris back plus another asset.

[JasonStern]

Player's league. Players get the big paychecks. But some day, some owner is going to get the moneyball idea "what if I massively overspend for the best front office and best coaching staff that I can buy?", none of which is limited by the CBA...

I mean it appears that CJ for Simmons is far more feasible after the abysmal series that Simmons had against The Hawks. One of the rare series where a clearly superior team loses a series with home court advantage.

I'm not sure that Portland would be into this trade but I have a feeling that the Sixers would seriously consider the swap and it wouldn't require a heavy amount of assets beyond CJ to get it done.

I think Simmons in Philly is going to start to get really bad for him, and a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I wonder if a 3 team deal could make sense… CJ to Philly, Simmons to another spot and that team sending a player or two to Portland?

Pretty sure any Blazers/76ers trade is DOA now that the Blazers won't take back Doc Rivers.

If - big if - the Blazers can re-sign Powell, I kind of like the idea of a CJ to 76ers, Simmons to the Pistons, Grant to the Blazers, with Detroit adding whatever is needed to make that deal work. Blazers likely don't win from a talent standpoint, but they do get a far more balanced starting lineup.

Or there's always CJ to the 76ers, Tobias Harris to the Blazers, and Simmons to the 76ers..?

[Roy The Natural]

Player's league. Players get the big paychecks. But some day, some owner is going to get the moneyball idea "what if I massively overspend for the best front office and best coaching staff that I can buy?", none of which is limited by the CBA...

I mean it appears that CJ for Simmons is far more feasible after the abysmal series that Simmons had against The Hawks. One of the rare series where a clearly superior team loses a series with home court advantage.

I'm not sure that Portland would be into this trade but I have a feeling that the Sixers would seriously consider the swap and it wouldn't require a heavy amount of assets beyond CJ to get it done.

I think Simmons in Philly is going to start to get really bad for him, and a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I wonder if a 3 team deal could make sense… CJ to Philly, Simmons to another spot and that team sending a player or two to Portland?

Pretty sure any Blazers/76ers trade is DOA now that the Blazers won't take back Doc Rivers.

If - big if - the Blazers can re-sign Powell, I kind of like the idea of a CJ to 76ers, Simmons to the Pistons, Grant to the Blazers, with Detroit adding whatever is needed to make that deal work. Blazers likely don't win from a talent standpoint, but they do get a far more balanced starting lineup.

Or there's always CJ to the 76ers, Tobias Harris to the Blazers, and Simmons to the 76ers..?

I really don't get the Tobias to Portland route. I'd rather do CJ+picks for Grant to be honest. Harris is a strict 4. Covington can play the 3, but he's not at his best at the 3. It feels like getting Harris cuts into Covington's value pretty significantly. I'd do the trade... but it would be close to a bottom of the barrel option for CJ IMO. It doesn't really balance the roster. The roster is more balanced after a trade like that then it is currently, but it's still a really poorly balanced roster with major questions at the wings.

[BlazersBroncos]

I really don't get the Tobias to Portland route. I'd rather do CJ+picks for Grant to be honest. Harris is a strict 4. Covington can play the 3, but he's not at his best at the 3. It feels like getting Harris cuts into Covington's value pretty significantly. I'd do the trade... but it would be close to a bottom of the barrel option for CJ IMO. It doesn't really balance the roster. The roster is more balanced after a trade like that then it is currently, but it's still a really poorly balanced roster with major questions at the wings.

Tobias makes sense because its realistic. It balances both teams, both teams are in win-now so money/age isnt much of an issue and it seems both will be active given their playoff exits.

Why does Detroit want CJ? If they move Grant, they will want prospects/picks. Not to mention Grant is a young'ish vet who went out of his way to go to a rebuilding DET team. Not many guys want to live in Detroit.

So Grant would be a better fit, but the chatter isnt nearly as realistic as CJ for Harris.

Harris and CJ are very equal players. I think expecting a better player than Tobias in a straight or near straight CJ swap is pie-in-the-sky.

[Sinobas]

I think Paul Allen would have fired him after this year. But if Jody is not that interested in the team, she probably didn't want to hassle with finding a new GM and then be late to the game hiring a coach. But unless Olshey knocks somethings out of the ball park this offseason, or the Blazers do well in the playoffs next year, I think he's done.