Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread

[cloverleaf]

looks like brad wants to move on from rob. which means TT probably stays.

i'm ok with that, tbh. TT stepped up and played decently well when it counted, while rob was once again injured.

If Horford starts, I would rather play Moses over TT. Don't want TT to stun Moses' development. Before anyone says Moses is a "not ready" project, I want to add I believe more in what Moses can do next season than most when given a steady and regular playing time.

And Kornet can serve as a good insurance 3rd center at a much better salary.

So you're endorsing a depth chart next year at the 5 of Moses/Tristan/Luke, with Al slotted for the 4, as a starter or behind Tatum?

(I would submit to you that a starting 5 with Smart, Marcus, Al and the Jays--or with Fournier substituted in for Al--is not very good.)

[playa-hater]

looks like brad wants to move on from rob. which means TT probably stays.

i'm ok with that, tbh. TT stepped up and played decently well when it counted, while rob was once again injured.

If Horford starts, I would rather play Moses over TT. Don't want TT to stun Moses' development. Before anyone says Moses is a "not ready" project, I want to add I believe more in what Moses can do next season than most when given a steady and regular playing time.

And Kornet can serve as a good insurance 3rd center at a much better salary.

So you're endorsing a depth chart next year at the 5 of Moses/Tristan/Luke, with Al slotted for the 4, as a starter or behind Tatum?

(I would submit to you that a starting 5 with Smart, Marcus, Al and the Jays--or with Fournier substituted in for Al--is not very good.)

I almost never want to see Horford at the 4.. never say never but...

If RW is traded. Then Horford at center, Smart at PG, the Js at the wings and whomever is acquired could start. Or Fournier, or even Nesmith. Hard to know when we don't have an idea of what's coming back.

[zoyathedestroya]

"Has Brad Stevens hit the proverbial rookie GM/POBO wall?!?" -- A RealGM thread by zoyathedestroya

[ddb]

Watch out for San Antonio as a Ben Simmons landing spot. between Coach Pop, Chip Engelland, and where they are as a franchise, they may be willing to roll the dice for a potential franchise player

[zoyathedestroya]

Offer Kawhi the MLE.

[ParticleMan]

If Horford starts, I would rather play Moses over TT. Don't want TT to stun Moses' development. Before anyone says Moses is a "not ready" project, I want to add I believe more in what Moses can do next season than most when given a steady and regular playing time.

And Kornet can serve as a good insurance 3rd center at a much better salary.

So you're endorsing a depth chart next year at the 5 of Moses/Tristan/Luke, with Al slotted for the 4, as a starter or behind Tatum?

(I would submit to you that a starting 5 with Smart, Marcus, Al and the Jays--or with Fournier substituted in for Al--is not very good.)

I almost never want to see Horford at the 4.. never say never but...

If RW is traded. Then Horford at center, Smart at PG, the Js at the wings and whomever is acquired could start. Or Fournier, or even Nesmith. Hard to know when we don't have an idea of what's coming back.

agreed. there might be a couple matchups where horfie at the 4 works but mostly not. i don't even think horford can start at this point, or at least not play starter minutes, at his age.

one of RW/TT will be traded (if not both), and the other starts. i don't put too much stock into that one twitter dude that it will be rob, i think it just depends on what we can get back. both have about equal value imo. i like moses but i am not counting on him to be a rotation guy next year, i hope he surprises.

[sam_I_am]

I wonder if Horford and Grant could play together for short spurts off bench. It would bring a lot of versatility and playmaking to frontcourt. They would have to hit their open 3s to make it work offensively.

[cloverleaf]

If Horford starts, I would rather play Moses over TT. Don't want TT to stun Moses' development. Before anyone says Moses is a "not ready" project, I want to add I believe more in what Moses can do next season than most when given a steady and regular playing time.

And Kornet can serve as a good insurance 3rd center at a much better salary.

So you're endorsing a depth chart next year at the 5 of Moses/Tristan/Luke, with Al slotted for the 4, as a starter or behind Tatum?

(I would submit to you that a starting 5 with Smart, Marcus, Al and the Jays--or with Fournier substituted in for Al--is not very good.)

I almost never want to see Horford at the 4.. never say never but...

If RW is traded. Then Horford at center, Smart at PG, the Js at the wings and whomever is acquired could start. Or Fournier, or even Nesmith. Hard to know when we don't have an idea of what's coming back.

Then I guess I was thrown off by your listing Moses and Tristan, then Kornet as a 3rd center.

[Green89]

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/celtics/report-wizards-blamed-celtics-for-their-covid-19-outbreak?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Makes sense, as Brad was soft as a marshmallow. Couldn't hold the team accountable on or off the court. What a disastrous final coaching season for Brad.

[Half-Full]

I wonder if Horford and Grant could play together for short spurts off bench. It would bring a lot of versatility and playmaking to frontcourt. They would have to hit their open 3s to make it work offensively.

I had proposed playing them in a lineup with Pritchard, Nesmith (or Romeo), and Fournier. I think that line up has good balance, and is less likely to see ISO play (no Jays).

[BleedGreen1989]

So you're endorsing a depth chart next year at the 5 of Moses/Tristan/Luke, with Al slotted for the 4, as a starter or behind Tatum?

(I would submit to you that a starting 5 with Smart, Marcus, Al and the Jays--or with Fournier substituted in for Al--is not very good.)

I almost never want to see Horford at the 4.. never say never but...

If RW is traded. Then Horford at center, Smart at PG, the Js at the wings and whomever is acquired could start. Or Fournier, or even Nesmith. Hard to know when we don't have an idea of what's coming back.

agreed. there might be a couple matchups where horfie at the 4 works but mostly not. i don't even think horford can start at this point, or at least not play starter minutes, at his age.

one of RW/TT will be traded (if not both), and the other starts. i don't put too much stock into that one twitter dude that it will be rob, i think it just depends on what we can get back. both have about equal value imo. i like moses but i am not counting on him to be a rotation guy next year, i hope he surprises.

Can’t imagine it’s very close, really.

Tristan has neutral value *at best* and best case is probably someone takes him into space for free.

Rob has actual upside if he can stay healthy and he’s significantly younger than Tristan obviously.

[cloverleaf]

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/celtics/report-wizards-blamed-celtics-for-their-covid-19-outbreak?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Makes sense, as Brad was soft as a marshmallow. Couldn't hold the team accountable on or off the court. What a disastrous final coaching season for Brad.

His last 3 years were really a bit of a crud show all around.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[Andrew McCeltic]

Wish Tommy were still around to have some kind of Moses commentary.. Brown finds an open lane and dunks: “The Red Sea parted for Moses!”

[Andrew McCeltic]

Thinking about how this roster could come together..

TPE/Carsen for SloMo
Fournier at 2 years, 36 million?
Waters gone

Gives you:

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Fournier/Langford
Tatum/(Fournier)/Nesmith
Anderson/(Jabari?)/Grant/(Semi?)
Horford/Thompson/Rob/(Kornet?)/(Tacko?)

That’s 15 right there, Tacko on a 2-way with minimal changes. Then you suddenly have a ton of questions about the frontcourt:

1. How does Brad feel about Grant, Jabari and Semi? Ojeleye isn’t a bad 3&D four to have around at the vet minimum.. Does Jabari have any hope of wising up on defense? Do they care? How much upside do they think Grant has left?

2. Versatility: how many minutes does Tatum get at the 4? Do they want to use Grant as a small-ball five? Can Thompson or Horford play the 4?

3. Roster balance: there just aren’t enough minutes at center. Brad’s talking about Horford like he’s going to step in and be who he was three years ago, but is he good for more than 20 minutes a night? Rob deserves 25 minutes a game.

The rumor is that they want to move on from Rob, but what are they going to get for him? His money’s so small that you can only trade him for a rookie-scale player or a pick. So what young player are you getting? Trade back into the draft - say, Giddey at 12 - and you’re gambling on a player who might never perform at Rob’s level - sometimes you get a James Young or Fab Melo or even an Olynyk.

Tristan makes more sense - he was disappointing last year and he’s a bad influence, but they’re not talking like they want to move him.. and who do you get? Is he the guy they deal for Anderson? Satoransky? Hard to move the needle.

Kornet - like Semi - is a useful vet min guy to have around at the end of the bench. But they could dump both, promote Tacko to a full time role, and sign a taxMLE or vet min point guard.

A lot of close calls, marginal moves to make, but they all matter. Get a few Jeff Teagues and it throws off your whole rotation.

EDIT: and I left out Moses Brown. Again, another close call.

Also like Ntilikina and Giles as free agents on a 2-year ET/Jabari style reclamation bet..

A lot of small but potentially impactful chemistry and upside calls.

[moonie_mcgee]

Thinking about how this roster could come together..

TPE/Carsen for SloMo
Fournier at 2 years, 36 million?
Waters gone

Gives you:

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Fournier/Langford
Tatum/(Fournier)/Nesmith
Anderson/(Jabari?)/Grant/(Semi?)
Horford/Thompson/Rob/(Kornet?)/(Tacko?)

That’s 15 right there, Tacko on a 2-way with minimal changes. Then you suddenly have a ton of questions about the frontcourt:

1. How does Brad feel about Grant, Jabari and Semi? Ojeleye isn’t a bad 3&D four to have around at the vet minimum.. Does Jabari have any hope of wising up on defense? Do they care? How much upside do they think Grant has left?

2. Versatility: how many minutes does Tatum get at the 4? Do they want to use Grant as a small-ball five? Can Thompson or Horford play the 4?

3. Roster balance: there just aren’t enough minutes at center. Brad’s talking about Horford like he’s going to step in and be who he was three years ago, but is he good for more than 20 minutes a night? Rob deserves 25 minutes a game.

The rumor is that they want to move on from Rob, but what are they going to get for him? His money’s so small that you can only trade him for a rookie-scale player or a pick. So what young player are you getting? Trade back into the draft - say, Giddey at 12 - and you’re gambling on a player who might never perform at Rob’s level - sometimes you get a James Young or Fab Melo or even an Olynyk.

Tristan makes more sense - he was disappointing last year and he’s a bad influence, but they’re not talking like they want to move him.. and who do you get? Is he the guy they deal for Anderson? Satoransky? Hard to move the needle.

Kornet - like Semi - is a useful vet min guy to have around at the end of the bench. But they could dump both, promote Tacko to a full time role, and sign a taxMLE or vet min point guard.

A lot of close calls, marginal moves to make, but they all matter. Get a few Jeff Teagues and it throws off your whole rotation.

EDIT: and I left out Moses Brown. Again, another close call.

Also like Ntilikina and Giles as free agents on a 2-year ET/Jabari style reclamation bet..

A lot of small but potentially impactful chemistry and upside calls.

We need a strong physical PF that can shoot from the perimeter to start and pair with Tatum and Moses. That's a real need. We need to be stronger on D and keep the lane open on offense. PJ Washington comes to mind.

Edit add Brandon Clarke and Grizzs Jackson Jr. Portland has some PFs too. Someone that'll still be in their prime for years.

[Andrew McCeltic]

None of those guys are available.. Portis could be a target with the taxMLE but he probably ends up with a bigger payday.

Starting Moses Brown over Horford, TT or Rob…?? He doesn’t deserve it.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If - best-case - we keep Fournier for 15 million, extend Rob for 15 million, and re-up Smart next summer for 15 million..

We're at about 140 million in payroll this year, without using the TPE.

Next year, above 150 million - unless we waive Horford, who's only guaranteed 14 million. And that's with Thompson coming off the books.

Use the TPE on Kyle Anderson and we jump up to 150 million this year.. If he gets 15 million annually on his next deal, we're at 165 million, or about 150 if Horford goes. Brining Thompson back for a third year in 2022-23? 160-175 million in salary.

A year later, Romeo and Grant are RFAs.

So we're talking about a top 3 payroll for a 7 seed..

That's assuming you manage to keep Fournier, Smart and Rob and that they all settle for 15 million annually.

[bucknersrevenge]

If - best-case - we keep Fournier for 15 million, extend Rob for 15 million, and re-up Smart next summer for 15 million..

We're at about 140 million in payroll this year, without using the TPE.

Next year, above 150 million - unless we waive Horford, who's only guaranteed 14 million. And that's with Thompson coming off the books.

Use the TPE on Kyle Anderson and we jump up to 150 million this year.. If he gets 15 million annually on his next deal, we're at 165 million, or about 150 if Horford goes. Brining Thompson back for a third year in 2022-23? 160-175 million in salary.

A year later, Romeo and Grant are RFAs.

So we're talking about a top 3 payroll for a 7 seed..

That's assuming you manage to keep Fournier, Smart and Rob and that they all settle for 15 million annually.

Honestly, that's why I buy them moving on from TimeLord and even moreso after this morning's presser, I don't see them re-signing Fournier. I see this being somewhat of an internal bridge year. Assess the team and all of its young talent. Conserve the cap space for next year and 2 years from now and then see where you can add a big piece. Udoka's mandate this year is to put a system around the Jay's the accentuates team ball and gets the best out of them. See what you have in PP, Romeo, and Nesmith and then be prepared to move forward in a year.

[playa-hater]

If - best-case - we keep Fournier for 15 million, extend Rob for 15 million, and re-up Smart next summer for 15 million..

We're at about 140 million in payroll this year, without using the TPE.

Next year, above 150 million - unless we waive Horford, who's only guaranteed 14 million. And that's with Thompson coming off the books.

Use the TPE on Kyle Anderson and we jump up to 150 million this year.. If he gets 15 million annually on his next deal, we're at 165 million, or about 150 if Horford goes. Brining Thompson back for a third year in 2022-23? 160-175 million in salary.

A year later, Romeo and Grant are RFAs.

So we're talking about a top 3 payroll for a 7 seed..

That's assuming you manage to keep Fournier, Smart and Rob and that they all settle for 15 million annually.

Honestly, that's why I buy them moving on from TimeLord and even moreso after this morning's presser, I don't see them re-signing Fournier. I see this being somewhat of an internal bridge year. Assess the team and all of its young talent. Conserve the cap space for next year and 2 years from now and then see where you can add a big piece. Udoka's mandate this year is to put a system around the Jay's the accentuates team ball and gets the best out of them. See what you have in PP, Romeo, and Nesmith and then be prepared to move forward in a year.

Going forward this might be the best thing to do.. though I like Fournier's "glue traits" on offense. But I also believe Nesmith will be far more ready and better than some are thinking. wish and hope I could say the same for Romeo.