2020-2021 College Basketball / NBA Draft

Negrodamus · Post #761 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:37 pm

stormi wrote:Going to parse through these clips after the Switzerland/France game. Thanks

Great, I'm interested in your thoughts.

Kobblehead · Post #762 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:42 pm

76ciology wrote:I have Tre Mann now over Bouknight.

Yeah, Tre is the most talented scorer in this draft IMO. Scores effortlessly off the dribble and is a willing shooter from deep.

Kobblehead · Post #763 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:45 pm

stormi wrote:Bouknight is Jordan Clarkson 2.0. Take that literally how you will.

Disrespectful to Jordan Clarkson.

Clarkson was a way better slasher and scorer off the dribble than Bouknight.

Kobblehead · Post #764 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:53 pm

76ciology wrote:..this is why I dont get it why teams have Evan Mobley over Kuminga or Green or Cunningham in their mocks.

If Mobley pans out. What am i missing? The next DeAndre Ayton? The next Jaren Jackson? Im not missing much.

I couldn't agree more. I''ve been saying for a minute that I have no interest in even drafting Mobley. And the comp you said is one I agree with wholeheartedly. He's basically Jaren Jackson without a jumper and slightly worse defensively. What is the point in drafting a big that can't anchor your defense? It's like having a backcourt player that can't score off the dribble.

Isaiah Jackson and Da'Ron Sharpe in round 1
Neemias Queta in round 2

Only bigs I have interest in.

Kobblehead · Post #765 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:57 pm

76ciology wrote:My friend told me Kuminga is high on WARP and may not go pass 3.

Yup, similar from my POV.

Ryen Russillo had Jarrett Jack on the podcast talking about the Ignite. Jack raved about Green, didn't mention Kuminga a lot. THe next pod, Kevin O'Connor and Ryen were on and mentioned that they picked up on a vibe that Jack didn't like Kuminga. Could have some personality red flags.

DCasey91 · Post #766 » by **DCasey91** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:01 pm

PG- FVV, Lowry, Garland, Fox, Pritchard,
SG- Lavine, CJ, Beal, Walker, Lillard,
SF - Ingram, Hart, Roco, Green,
PF - Olynyk, Barnes, Ben,
C - Embiid

6th man - Curry

This year we need to setup the backcourt so if we are getting one, the second must compliment the first. Ideally we get two from my list that actually pairs well together. Say Lavine + Lowry. High/low style. PG is the low usage shooter + ballhandler and defender and the SG takes 20 shots. Or a high usage wing same deal. The PG will be just as important as the main piece if a big trade occurs.

Hill is not a primary PG, knew some people would be disappointed in his role and what he actually is. He’s an off ball SG.

Maxey is not a PG, he’s a slashing SG. We still really don’t have a starting PG do we for all of Embiid’s tenure? Butler was the best PG we had lol

Build a team to max out Embiid.

Mann and McBride would be welcome additions.

So would Jalen Green or Suggs if we go the youth route.

DCasey91 · Post #767 » by **DCasey91** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:23 pm

Pistons don’t need Cade.. they have 4 wings lol.

Starters:
Joseph
Green
Bey
Grant
Stewart

Bench:
Hayes
McGruder
Sekou
Jackson
Plumlee

They 100% need a stud SG prospect (Green is one of the best in some time).
Suddenly the Pistons don’t look so bad, a nice interchangeable structure with a lot of youngsters to develop in the same timeframe. Play their cards right could be a team to watch out for in the coming years. 37# pick if they get Murphy or Weiskamp or Roko then they’ve had an A+ draft night which is saying a lot (Value picks all three of them).

Had my tickets to the Green Machine for ages (months now) get on or be called a bandwagoner.

I will forever sing the praises of Green across all boards. Green is life.

stormi · Post #768 » by **stormi** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:26 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
stormi wrote:Going to parse through these clips after the Switzerland/France game. Thanks

Great, I'm interested in your thoughts.

So the clips were intriguing. I think it displayed both guys attributes pretty well. McBride was giving me lots of Patrick Beverley vibes. Tenacious man defender, underrated offensive skillset, can shoot the ball and make some reads on ball. I think that's very valuable and conducive to winning basketball. Also reminds me of another Clipper, Terance Mann (albeit who's a bit taller) that's getting big playoff minutes in a conference finals because he plays tough defense and knocks down shots.

I'm definitely a McBride fan, but I still value Mann's skillset more. Some of the clips you posted where Tre just looked so effortless on ball. The stepback on #0 was one of them. He isn't all the way there yet, but he does look like he can be groomed into an on-ball killer.

DCasey91 · Post #769 » by **DCasey91** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:32 pm

Mann is superior to McBride. I like both but McBride does struggle more on finishing and getting to the rim.

I just remembered Mann can finish even (nice % on his floaters) with the below the basket play because of his absurd hang time, touch and layup package is Mini Shai like (Shai was doing disgusting finishing moves in College that NBA players couldn’t replicate lol).

Disregard before I think Mann needs to teach Maxey the float, tricky moves and shooting game

.

Seen Mann on more then a few occasions break ankles and finish like Irving lol. His first step is a lot quicker then McBride’s (his foot speed off the mark ain’t the greatest that’s why he struggles to create separation). And his handle is Kemba esque. Shooting is A tier off the PNR.

I dub Tre Mann “Mini Shai” with a better shot.

Look he’s going to need 2/3 years to acclimatize finishing between the trees and getting picked on, on the defensive end. But our defense is fine.

DCasey91 · Post #770 » by **DCasey91** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:42 pm

Watch on YouTube

1:35 I’ve seen him do that a number of times, yet he can barely get above the rim it makes no sense lol.

Look how much scoring and shooter is 1v1 and ISO and PNR play.

Dude is tricky as all hell.

Negrodamus · Post #771 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:43 pm

Maybe I'll need to watch Mann against some other elite defenders. The only times I've watched him were this WVU game and the 7 point UK game. So pretty rough perception for me right now. Additionally I need to know if Scotty Pippen Jr and Moody were the guys locking him up in the games he had single digit scoring outputs.

DCasey91 · Post #772 » by **DCasey91** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:55 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Maybe I'll need to watch Mann against some other elite defenders. The only times I've watched him were this WVU game and the 7 point UK game. So pretty rough perception for me right now. Additionally I need to know if Scotty Pippen Jr and Moody were the guys locking him up in the games he had single digit scoring outputs.

It’d be most likely they are both bigger and more capable defensively, though both aren’t anywhere near Tre Mann on the variety offensively.

You’re buying Tre as the defacto SG, scorer and shooter but not the primary facilitating guard (his passes aren’t that impressive his accuracy is off).

He really is Kemba/Mini Shai like.

Negrodamus · Post #773 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:16 pm

Shai is good because of his BBIQ, especially on PnR, and having a 7ft wingspan. He's not terribly athletic which was the reason everyone was terrified of him

Let me just say, I'm not against him being the pick: he has the numbers I'm interested in for a guard. However, his W/S is an issue, he's very thin, and the games I've watched, he shied away from the challenge of another draft pick, aka hiding on defense. I'm not saying he should be a defensive maestro, but he should be interested in taking down McBride. He's also has a WORSE FTr than McBride, which is somewhat illuminating.

Kobblehead · Post #774 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:20 pm

Dru Smith was the best defender Tre Mann faced all year and he put 21 on him on nearly 82% shooting.

Also, if you look at games Mann struggled against teams he played twice, he always balled out in game 2. Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbiltt...much better the second time he faced those teams.

No worries about his ability to score against any defender at the next level. Far too skilled to be defended.

DCasey91 · Post #775 » by **DCasey91** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:26 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Shai is good because of his BBIQ, especially on PnR, and having a 7ft wingspan. He's not terribly athletic which was the reason everyone was terrified of him

Let me just say, I'm not against him being the pick: he has the numbers I'm interested in for a guard. However, his W/S is an issue, he's very thin, and the games I've watched, he shied away from the challenge of another draft pick, aka hiding on defense. I'm not saying he should be a defensive maestro, but he should be interested in taking down McBride. He's also has a WORSE FTr than McBride, which is somewhat illuminating.

I use the Mini Shai thing on his layup package to compensate for his size, it’s wicked like Shai’s is lol.

That is true though with the defensive thing but Tre’s value is on the offensive end which he’ll be very good at it at the next level.

Most prospects have their concerns and Tre is no exception.

What he showed in year 2 as a legitimate natural growth curve is something to be excited about long term.

Negrodamus · Post #776 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:26 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Dru Smith was the best defender Tre Mann faced all year and he put 21 on him on nearly 82% shooting.

Also, if you look at games Mann struggled against teams he played twice, he always balled out in game 2. Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbiltt...much better the second time he faced those teams.

No worries about his ability to score against any defender at the next level. Far too skilled to be defended.

I might need to watch more of Dru Smith because his body type looks like Ice Cube out there in the Mizz vs UF game, so far. Not surprising he can't keep up with Tre.

Kobblehead · Post #777 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:33 pm

I'll forever live on Dru Smith island. Such an elite skillset. Such an awesome, down to earth kid. He'd be a joy to have on our roster.

Kobblehead · Post #778 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:41 pm

76ciology wrote:Whats not to like with Franz Wagner?

I think he’s very underrated in this draft. Numbers and eyetest checks both boxes.

He can shoot, run PnR and plays 2 way.

I don't think anything stands out to answer what's not to like.

But I'll counter with a question. What's to love? Most of his traits are C-

C- rebounder, C+ defender, C- passer, C/C+ shooter, D+/C- scorer off the dribble.

He's a big young player and his skillset is varied, but with no real standout trait IMO.

Negrodamus · Post #779 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:47 pm

Yea, not really getting SGA in Tre while watching him against Mizzou. Shai was destroying teams inside and drawing fouls at an elite level. Completely took over the team after the other blue chips fizzled and distributed at a high level.

Tre is very shifty and quick, but is more of a stepback shooter. Doesn't have complete control of the offense. Nothing wrong with him, feels more like a microwave scorer, but I don't see the comparison.

Kobblehead · Post #780 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:56 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Yea, not really getting SGA in Tre while watching him against Mizzou. Shai was destroying teams inside and drawing fouls at an elite level. Completely took over the team after the other blue chips fizzled and distributed at a high level.

Tre is very shifty and quick, but is more of a stepback shooter. Doesn't have complete control of the offense. Nothing wrong with him, feels more like a microwave scorer, but I don't see the comparison.

Coby White is more appropriate, IMO.