What exactly is the plan?

[Michael Jackson]

Who's the Boozer of this free agency class?

All this Leonard, Dame talk makes me think of the LeBron decision free agency... Makes my head and heart hurt.

In the sense that he’s second tier, it’s Lonzo Ball. Difference being he’s young and improving and fits our team needs like a glove.

Sure, AK should make the nearly certainly pointless phone call to Kawhi, but not at the expense of diminishing Ball. The nanosecond free agency opens the Bulls should make it very clear to Ball that he is their number 1 priority. The rest of this is just pipe dreams.

The thing is Boozer would have been a good signing in most years, just that year he was not because of the other names involved. Joe Johnson was the miss everyone made waiting on LeBron. Not that they re all the same player but Ball, Schroder, Reggie Jackson, Dinwiddie are all kind of the same bucket, not the same player but same overall impact depending on fit.

[gobullschi]

Orlando’s problem has more to do with bad luck than anything. Had they won the #1, #2, or #3 pick, they’d be in an entirely different position.

This is what people forget about the concept of ‘building through the draft’. It takes lottery and draft class luck.

[cool007]

When does the officially free agency starts? July 5th?

[Andi Obst]

When does the officially free agency starts? July 5th?

Nah, it's definitely after the draft. It's August 2nd IIRC.

[sco]

When does the officially free agency starts? July 5th?

I thought it was Aug 2?

[MrSparkle]

Orlando’s problem has more to do with bad luck than anything. Had they won the #1, #2, or #3 pick, they’d be in an entirely different position.

This is what people forget about the concept of ‘building through the draft’. It takes lottery and draft class luck.

What seems to happen every year is a complete mis-evaluation of next year’s draft class. Maybe the big take-away is teams should be more careful crafting their organization’s future on a 17-18yo kid’s potential, who has way lower than 50% odds of becoming a star and a lower than 15% odd of being drafted by you (assuming you super tank).

This top-5 seems pretty talented to me, yet no certainty. The 6-10 seems really mediocre to me. Sure I’d be confident drafting Cade or Kuminga, but even then, it’s a long road out of Pistons/Magic hell.

The truth is and has been that rebuilds are generally great for business. NBA splits and shares profits anyway. Rookie salaries are cheaper and fans are more excited by hope than reality. It becomes easier to trade when you suck, cause you don’t have to convince your fanbase that it was worth taking Kemba’s $80m for a 16th pick.

The prospect of losing is actually a positive in most fans’ minds so they don’t mind supporting a loser (better draft pick! More hope!).

So of course you can see why fellas like Reinsdorf and Sarver have enjoyed decades of lotto picks. Till enough disappointments rot the fanbase. The general elation after the Bulls/Jimmy trade was strong until it wasn’t.

[CobyWhite0]

This is true, and I do think you could probably find a home for Troy Brown.

One thing to note is the the timing makes that a bit tricky. To waive/stretch Thad/Sato on their non-guaranteed rate, you have to do so prior to FA opening and before even knowing if Kawhi will opt out (let alone if he'd come here if he does). If you do that and don't land Kawhi, it likely becomes a big mistake. You aren't likely to improve your team by freeing up their money and signing non star FAs because they're both on reasonable deals, and there aren't a lot of FAs available to take that gamble especially if Kawhi is not in the mix.

If you could trade one or both into cap room though, that would make a lot of challenges go away, and I think there's some chance you would be able to do that for a team that isn't going to make huge moves, especially if you send cash or a 2nd rounder.

I agree that it's almost certainly a bad idea to waive and stretch Thad and Sato, barring Kawhi letting it be known in advance that he wants to be a Bull. Which of course can't happen "officially" without it being tampering.

But here's a hypothetical I hadn't considered - let's say that Aug 1 rolls around and Kawhi wants to be a Bull. You have to move Thad and Sato into cap space/TPE in order to sign him - and the only way to do that is to attach our 2025 1st to Thad and our 2027 1st to Sato (both lottery-protected) in order to make the deals.

Do you do it?

I would hate it in a way, but I think you'd have to. You aren't going to find a better shot than that even if I don't like Kawhi from a rooting standpoint and don't trust him to stay healthy, you can fill in with vet min/mle guys and be a contender immediately if he's healthy.

I think I feel exactly the same - I would hate doing it, but if that option presents itself, I don't know how you can say 'no'.

[sco]

I agree that it's almost certainly a bad idea to waive and stretch Thad and Sato, barring Kawhi letting it be known in advance that he wants to be a Bull. Which of course can't happen "officially" without it being tampering.

But here's a hypothetical I hadn't considered - let's say that Aug 1 rolls around and Kawhi wants to be a Bull. You have to move Thad and Sato into cap space/TPE in order to sign him - and the only way to do that is to attach our 2025 1st to Thad and our 2027 1st to Sato (both lottery-protected) in order to make the deals.

Do you do it?

I would hate it in a way, but I think you'd have to. You aren't going to find a better shot than that even if I don't like Kawhi from a rooting standpoint and don't trust him to stay healthy, you can fill in with vet min/mle guys and be a contender immediately if he's healthy.

I think I feel exactly the same - I would hate doing it, but if that option presents itself, I don't know how you can say 'no'.

That option is not happening - other crazy things...sure, but Kawhi has exactly what he wants (except a medical staff, but that is easily fixed). He left his last 2 teams after getting rings - if anything not winning a ring may be the best way to keep him.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Who's the Boozer of this free agency class?

All this Leonard, Dame talk makes me think of the LeBron decision free agency... Makes my head and heart hurt.

In the sense that he’s second tier, it’s Lonzo Ball. Difference being he’s young and improving and fits our team needs like a glove.

Sure, AK should make the nearly certainly pointless phone call to Kawhi, but not at the expense of diminishing Ball. The nanosecond free agency opens the Bulls should make it very clear to Ball that he is their number 1 priority. The rest of this is just pipe dreams.

The thing is Boozer would have been a good signing in most years, just that year he was not because of the other names involved. Joe Johnson was the miss everyone made waiting on LeBron. Not that they re all the same player but Ball, Schroder, Reggie Jackson, Dinwiddie are all kind of the same bucket, not the same player but same overall impact depending on fit.

I always hated the Boozer signing especially because we had a better player in Taj coming off the bench behind him AND that money could’ve went to our needs at SG

[sco]

In the sense that he’s second tier, it’s Lonzo Ball. Difference being he’s young and improving and fits our team needs like a glove.

Sure, AK should make the nearly certainly pointless phone call to Kawhi, but not at the expense of diminishing Ball. The nanosecond free agency opens the Bulls should make it very clear to Ball that he is their number 1 priority. The rest of this is just pipe dreams.

The thing is Boozer would have been a good signing in most years, just that year he was not because of the other names involved. Joe Johnson was the miss everyone made waiting on LeBron. Not that they re all the same player but Ball, Schroder, Reggie Jackson, Dinwiddie are all kind of the same bucket, not the same player but same overall impact depending on fit.

I always hated the Boozer signing especially because we had a better player in Taj coming off the bench behind him AND that money could’ve went to our needs at SG

Yeah, Boozer was a desperation signing. As much as I complained about it, he really wasn't that bad for his deal. Taj was definitely underutilized during much of his time with us.

[jump]

Boozer was a good signing. The FO DID try to find a top level SG. They were going after Joe Johnson, but Atlanta offered him $120 million. Then they targeted Reddick, but Orlando matched our big offer. That screwed Orlando’s budget and cost management their jobs a year later. If we had landed either of those two, we would have likely won a ring.

[League Circles]

Who's the Boozer of this free agency class?

All this Leonard, Dame talk makes me think of the LeBron decision free agency... Makes my head and heart hurt.

In the sense that he’s second tier, it’s Lonzo Ball. Difference being he’s young and improving and fits our team needs like a glove.

Sure, AK should make the nearly certainly pointless phone call to Kawhi, but not at the expense of diminishing Ball. The nanosecond free agency opens the Bulls should make it very clear to Ball that he is their number 1 priority. The rest of this is just pipe dreams.

The thing is Boozer would have been a good signing in most years, just that year he was not because of the other names involved. Joe Johnson was the miss everyone made waiting on LeBron. Not that they re all the same player but Ball, Schroder, Reggie Jackson, Dinwiddie are all kind of the same bucket, not the same player but same overall impact depending on fit.

Joe Johnson was wildly better than any of those guys and no one waited on him. He promptly and unexpectedly signed a full 6 year max with Atlanta otherwise we probably would have had him instead of Korver/Brewer/Watson. We might very well have won a title.

[Michael Jackson]

In the sense that he’s second tier, it’s Lonzo Ball. Difference being he’s young and improving and fits our team needs like a glove.

Sure, AK should make the nearly certainly pointless phone call to Kawhi, but not at the expense of diminishing Ball. The nanosecond free agency opens the Bulls should make it very clear to Ball that he is their number 1 priority. The rest of this is just pipe dreams.

The thing is Boozer would have been a good signing in most years, just that year he was not because of the other names involved. Joe Johnson was the miss everyone made waiting on LeBron. Not that they re all the same player but Ball, Schroder, Reggie Jackson, Dinwiddie are all kind of the same bucket, not the same player but same overall impact depending on fit.

Joe Johnson was wildly better than any of those guys and no one waited on him. He promptly and unexpectedly signed a full 6 year max with Atlanta otherwise we probably would have had him instead of Korver/Brewer/Watson. We might very well have won a title.

Atlanta knew their priorities and the big 3 held everyone else hostage. In fairness to Pax had he just signed Johnson we would be hearing about how he never even tried to get Lebron here… that would have been a lose lose situation. Johnson wasn’t interested in playing the game and took that contract, but we could have signed both Joe and even Boozer still too if that is the way they wanted to go. Pax woukd have been in out of town though if he didn’t go all in on the big 3.

[League Circles]

The thing is Boozer would have been a good signing in most years, just that year he was not because of the other names involved. Joe Johnson was the miss everyone made waiting on LeBron. Not that they re all the same player but Ball, Schroder, Reggie Jackson, Dinwiddie are all kind of the same bucket, not the same player but same overall impact depending on fit.

Joe Johnson was wildly better than any of those guys and no one waited on him. He promptly and unexpectedly signed a full 6 year max with Atlanta otherwise we probably would have had him instead of Korver/Brewer/Watson. We might very well have won a title.

Atlanta knew their priorities and the big 3 held everyone else hostage. In fairness to Pax had he just signed Johnson we would be hearing about how he never even tried to get Lebron here… that would have been a lose lose situation. Johnson wasn’t interested in playing the game and took that contract, but we could have signed both Joe and even Boozer still too if that is the way they wanted to go. Pax woukd have been in out of town though if he didn’t go all in on the big 3.

I'm pretty sure we didn't have quite enough room to see pay Boozer what we did and Johnson ehat Atlanta did (in year 1, let alone that they were able to offer him 6 years and higher raises than we were allowed to under the CBA). Arn Tellum was his agent and I think before ATL stepped up, he was basically a lock to sign with us for a little under max. He may have even been out priority over Boozer.

[Michael Jackson]

Joe Johnson was wildly better than any of those guys and no one waited on him. He promptly and unexpectedly signed a full 6 year max with Atlanta otherwise we probably would have had him instead of Korver/Brewer/Watson. We might very well have won a title.

Atlanta knew their priorities and the big 3 held everyone else hostage. In fairness to Pax had he just signed Johnson we would be hearing about how he never even tried to get Lebron here… that would have been a lose lose situation. Johnson wasn’t interested in playing the game and took that contract, but we could have signed both Joe and even Boozer still too if that is the way they wanted to go. Pax woukd have been in out of town though if he didn’t go all in on the big 3.

I'm pretty sure we didn't have quite enough room to see pay Boozer what we did and Johnson ehat Atlanta did (in year 1, let alone that they were able to offer him 6 years and higher raises than we were allowed to under the CBA). Arn Tellum was his agent and I think before ATL stepped up, he was basically a lock to sign with us for a little under max. He may have even been out priority over Boozer.

I know Atlanta was definitely able to pay him more and have a longer contract, but I think we could have for both of them if that was what our plans was. We were able to pay both LeBron and Wade and could make moves for Bosh if they really wanted to be here, which they didn't. Not sure we would have wanted Boozer though if we signed Johnson

[sco]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945321-predicting-the-fates-of-nbas-top-2021-restricted-free-agents

Lauri on a cheapish deal to SA and Ball to Knicks.

[petebraun0]

I just have to note that the vast majority of the paint on this floor was put down by GarPax. From 2012 to 2019, they used the following first-round picks:
#29 Teague
#20 Snell
#16 + #19 for McDermott
#22 Portis
#14 Valentine
#7 Markkanen
#7 Carter
#22 Hutch
#7 White

10 first round picks, no competent players. The best player on the list was traded for a guy who can't stay healthy.
.

I don't agree with the above. McDermott looks okay with the Pacers as a good shooting bench guy. Portis seems nice with the Bucks as a high energy, good rebounding and shooting big. Markkannen has had some nice games; and Carter has looked okay with his new team. He will provide decent defense, rebounding and shot blocking. and for some reason, Snell has stayed in the league.
Many of our picks could have been retained or bundled together in trades. Some of those players are serviceable as 2nd or 3rd string guys, or emergency starters.

[CobyWhite0]

I just have to note that the vast majority of the paint on this floor was put down by GarPax. From 2012 to 2019, they used the following first-round picks:
#29 Teague
#20 Snell
#16 + #19 for McDermott
#22 Portis
#14 Valentine
#7 Markkanen
#7 Carter
#22 Hutch
#7 White

10 first round picks, no competent players. The best player on the list was traded for a guy who can't stay healthy.

I don't agree with the above. McDermott looks okay with the Pacers as a good shooting bench guy. Portis seems nice with the Bucks as a high energy, good rebounding and shooting big. Markkannen has had some nice games; and Carter has looked okay with his new team. He will provide decent defense, rebounding and shot blocking. and for some reason, Snell has stayed in the league.
Many of our picks could have been retained or bundled together in trades. Some of those players are serviceable as 2nd or 3rd string guys, or emergency starters.

It's quite the joke to say "no competent players". Hell, it's beyond a joke, if another team's fan made the same statement here, it would be considered trolling.

Snell - Most #20 picks don't play 8 NBA seasons, let alone play 21+ minutes for a conference finalist while starting 1/3 of the team's games.

McDermott - How many #11 picks are Top-25 ALL-TIME in 3pt%?

Portis - How many #22 picks wind up averaging 11/7 as the 7th man on an NBA Finals team?

[coldfish]

I just have to note that the vast majority of the paint on this floor was put down by GarPax. From 2012 to 2019, they used the following first-round picks:
#29 Teague
#20 Snell
#16 + #19 for McDermott
#22 Portis
#14 Valentine
#7 Markkanen
#7 Carter
#22 Hutch
#7 White

10 first round picks, no competent players. The best player on the list was traded for a guy who can't stay healthy.

I don't agree with the above. McDermott looks okay with the Pacers as a good shooting bench guy. Portis seems nice with the Bucks as a high energy, good rebounding and shooting big. Markkannen has had some nice games; and Carter has looked okay with his new team. He will provide decent defense, rebounding and shot blocking. and for some reason, Snell has stayed in the league.
Many of our picks could have been retained or bundled together in trades. Some of those players are serviceable as 2nd or 3rd string guys, or emergency starters.

It's quite the joke to say "no competent players". Hell, it's beyond a joke, if another team's fan made the same statement here, it would be considered trolling.

Snell - Most #20 picks don't play 8 NBA seasons, let alone play 21+ minutes for a conference finalist while starting 1/3 of the team's games.

McDermott - How many #11 picks are Top-25 ALL-TIME in 3pt%?

Portis - How many #22 picks wind up averaging 11/7 as the 7th man on an NBA Finals team?

White / Teague
Valentine / Hutch
Pat / Snell / McDermott
Portis / Markkanen
WCJ / Gafford

That's an all draft pick team and it would struggle to win 20 games. There are 4 top 7 picks in that group too.

That's horrific drafting and its the fundamental reason why the team is in so much trouble. Spin it or cherry pick whatever words you want but apparently you disagree with the concept and you are simply wrong.

[tugs]

What are your thoughts on trading for Joe Ingles? Adding a versatile wing that can play PG and make 3s at a high clip. Complements the games of the ball dominant guards and could be a good PnR initiator with Vuc and Theis. Plays with a very high IQ that will be useful to stabilize games. He won't be asked to do a lot like with Utah since Chicago has many healthy bodies and he can just come in and do what is asked of him

Aminu + Brown Jr. for Ingles works financially