2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[MartinToVaught]

If the Hawks manage to win it all, would they be the worst title winning team ever?

1978 Bullets.

The '78 Bullets didn't get to face a bunch of injury-depleted teams missing their best or second-best players while they stayed relatively healthy. They beat George Gervin/Larry Kenon and Dr. J/Doug Collins.

Edit: Never mind, I somehow misread the conversation and didn't realize it was the Hawks they were being compared to.

[Colbinii]

If the Hawks manage to win it all, would they be the worst title winning team ever?

1978 Bullets.

I know that I might be not not objective, but even with their mediocre RS I think that this Bullets team was more talented than Atlanta - especially if Trae continues to miss games in playoffs.

Maybe, its close and considering the large disparity in regular season performance (The larger sample size in comparison with post-season) but yeah, if Trae is missing games, Hunter is out and Bogdanovic can't return to close to 100% and they win then obviously the Bullets are better.

2006 Heat are another mention.

[Colbinii]

If the Hawks manage to win it all, would they be the worst title winning team ever?

1978 Bullets.

The '78 Bullets didn't get to face a bunch of injury-depleted teams missing their best or second-best players while they stayed relatively healthy. They beat George Gervin/Larry Kenon and Dr. J/Doug Collins.

And the Philadelphia team imploded during the season and had major internal issues, The Spurs were never a team with deep runs (as good as Gervin was) and the best two teams were the Lakers and Blazers--who the Bullets never had to face.

We can keep running in circles here about who was worse but the fact is both the Bullets and Hawks would be two of the weakest finals teams ever. I'll stick with Bullets and you can have the Hawks. Cheers mate, go CP3!

[MartinToVaught]

And the Philadelphia team imploded during the season and had major internal issues, The Spurs were never a team with deep runs (as good as Gervin was) and the best two teams were the Lakers and Blazers--who the Bullets never had to face.

And the Bullets' record was only as weak as it was because they were hit hard by the injury bug during the season. They won ten more games the following season (the best record in the league that year) with largely the same team and went back to the Finals. In contrast, even if the Hawks win this year, they probably won't be back in the Finals next year with a healthy Nets looming.

[Colbinii]

And the Philadelphia team imploded during the season and had major internal issues, The Spurs were never a team with deep runs (as good as Gervin was) and the best two teams were the Lakers and Blazers--who the Bullets never had to face.

And the Bullets' record was only as weak as it was because they were hit hard by the injury bug during the season. They won ten more games the following season (the best record in the league that year) with largely the same team and went back to the Finals. In contrast, even if the Hawks win this year, they probably won't be back in the Finals next year with a healthy Nets looming.

A healthy Nets? Whats that? Is it like a flat earth?

[No-more-rings]

2006 Heat are another mention.

They beat two healthy 60+ win teams so i don't see that at all.

[Colbinii]

2006 Heat are another mention.

They beat two healthy 60+ win teams so i don't see that at all.

In small sample sizes but the SRS between Detroit/Dallas and Milwaukee/Philadelphia and either Phoenix or Los Angeles is comparable.

[No-more-rings]

2006 Heat are another mention.

They beat two healthy 60+ win teams so i don't see that at all.

In small sample sizes but the SRS between Detroit/Dallas and Milwaukee/Philadelphia and either Phoenix or Los Angeles is comparable.

On paper i guess so, but the Pistons coming off a nearly repeat I'd argue was clearly better than any team left now considering health and everything.

If we also look at regular season performance, the Heat were clearly better than the Hawks, and something i think many people don't realize is with a healthier Shaq that year they would've made a good push for 60 wins themselves. I think the only reason so many people consider them one of the weakest title winners ever, is because people see the finals win as a fluke and how poorly everyone but Wade played. There's some truth to it, I'm not saying they're one of the better title teams or anything but they're clearly better than this Hawks team if they somehow won it.

[parsnips33]

I still love the NBA and still find these playoffs extremely compelling. Sorry you guys don't. I hate guys getting hurt, but I don't hate it any more when its the superstars. To me all of this overcoming is part of the joy of sports. It reminds us the actual games matter something we lose sight of a lot around here.

100%, extremely fun season even with all the unfortunate injuries

[penbeast0]

1978 Bullets.

May the Fat Lady sing outside your house at 3A!

I'm a heavy sleeper, better bring a choir.

It's Wagner baby, you don't need a choir.

That said, I'm not disagreeing with you. The talent was there for the Bullets to be good, the next year they were the NBA's best in the regular season and returned to the finals (as did the Sonics team you don't seem to think much of). But that year, they were not an impressive regular season team, barely breaking .500.

With Chenier injured, they were a weak offensive team with only Unseld (7.6ppg!) and Bob Dandridge among the starters being even league average efficiency. Mitch Kupchak did a great job as 6th man and Unseld, Hayes, and Dandridge were a tough defensive frontline but it's hardly the Showtime Lakers.

[Doctor MJ]

I still love the NBA and still find these playoffs extremely compelling. Sorry you guys don't. I hate guys getting hurt, but I don't hate it any more when its the superstars. To me all of this overcoming is part of the joy of sports. It reminds us the actual games matter something we lose sight of a lot around here.

I think we all need to keep this perspective in mind.

Disappointment is understandable, but it's not like we haven't seen new great things this year, including in the playoffs, and it's not like the players we're watching haven't given their all.

Moreover, there's good reason to be excited for basketball's future. I contrast this with how I felt in 1994 when, to be honest, it almost felt pointless to even watch the playoffs and the future looked bleak. This is an exciting time, and the players are both figuring out better ways to play and having to battle past a faceless gauntlet that might endear them to us.

[Doctor MJ]

Read on Twitter

Oh man. The scale of the damage of this season has really exploded in the playoffs.

I could see Silver having to resign because of this honestly, and I say this as someone who doesn't think that's actually warranted. There were reasons why this seemed necessary enough that both ownership and players agreed to it.

But knowing the cost, this was a mistake, and it is a mistake that might have consequences that don't just go deep into '21-22, but permanently for players with sever enough injuries.

Not a big fan of Silver, but why would he have to resign when he's the one who always panders to the players themselves?

Do we have evidence the players see him that way?

Is there someone else who is the face of the players' complaints about the schedule this year?

[MartinToVaught]

I contrast this with how I felt in 1994 when, to be honest, it almost felt pointless to even watch the playoffs and the future looked bleak.

I'm surprised you felt that way about '94 since, to me at least, it was a competitive playoffs with a number of compelling series, even if that '90s style of basketball was ugly at times.

Personally, the most hopeless I've ever felt about a postseason in terms of pure competition (not outside factors like last year's bubble or this year's insane injury gauntlet) was 2001 and the Durant Warriors era. 2001, because the West was awful outside of the Lakers, and the East had no teams that year capable of being the Lakers except for maybe the Bucks, and that's being generous (and they got screwed by the refs anyway). And with the Warriors, Durant's weak move just turned the entire NBA product into a borderline unwatchable farce for years.

[Doctor MJ]

I contrast this with how I felt in 1994 when, to be honest, it almost felt pointless to even watch the playoffs and the future looked bleak.

I'm surprised you felt that way about '94 since, to me at least, it was a competitive playoffs with a number of compelling series, even if that '90s style of basketball was ugly at times.

Personally, the most hopeless I've ever felt about a postseason in terms of pure competition (not outside factors like last year's bubble or this year's insane injury gauntlet) was 2001 and the Durant Warriors era. 2001, because the West was awful outside of the Lakers, and the East had no teams that year capable of being the Lakers except for maybe the Bucks, and that's being generous (and they got screwed by the refs anyway). And with the Warriors, Durant's weak move just turned the entire NBA product into a borderline unwatchable farce for years.

Watching the '93-94 season everything screamed, "No MJ? What's the point?" from the jump, we doubted whether any teams would emerge as truly elite, one young team (Seattle) did only to the lay the biggest egg possible in the first round of the playoffs, and we saw again and again the series to fall by HCA as if playing these playoffs 10 times would yield 10 different champions but which ended with two of the losers from MJ's generation getting to play their ugly ass game effectively in a consolation bracket.

Now, I'm typing that from my mood at the time not how I see it now (where I'd never call Hakeem's game ugly in a million years), but I'll also say that '94-95 really ended up re-framing '93-94. When Hakeem did it again, this time in more impressive fashion, the '93-94 chip seemed retroactively more meaningful and intriguing.

[MartinToVaught]

Finally some good news:

Read on Twitter

[GSP]

Bookers advanced numbers in the playoffs are so mediocre for the hype hes getting. If you replaced him with 19 Lou Williams would the Suns be any worse off in the playoffs?

[Redemption Bong]

Bookers advanced numbers in the playoffs are so mediocre for the hype hes getting. If you replaced him with 19 Lou Williams would the Suns be any worse off in the playoffs?

2021 Booker is playing DPOY level compared to Lou Williams' best

How did 2019 Lou do in closeout game victories? Booker has 80+ points in those wins these playoffs.

2019 Sweet Lou played the third most minutes in their first round loss to the Warriors and was a -59. Egads!

[Colbinii]

Bookers advanced numbers in the playoffs are so mediocre for the hype hes getting. If you replaced him with 19 Lou Williams would the Suns be any worse off in the playoffs?

2021 Booker is playing DPOY level compared to Lou Williams' best

How did 2019 Lou do in closeout game victories? Booker has 80+ points in those wins these playoffs.

2019 Sweet Lou played the third most minutes in their first round loss to the Warriors and was a -59. Egads!

You made an account just to show how a Booker vs Lou comparison is inept?

Thats some GOAT level stuff.

[Doctor MJ]

Bookers advanced numbers in the playoffs are so mediocre for the hype hes getting. If you replaced him with 19 Lou Williams would the Suns be any worse off in the playoffs?

Hmm.

Booker in the playoffs is scoring 27.3 PPG on 57.7% TS as his team's big minute guy (in fact most total minutes of anyone in the league this season).

Lou '19 in the playoffs scored 21.7 PPG on 53.3% TS coming off (and playing against) the bench.

Booker also 4 inches taller and much more able to get his shot off against tough competition in general, to say nothing of being a better backcourt fit for Paul than another hobbit.

Seems to me that if the Suns replace Booker with Lou, they immediately get "upset" by the Lakers

[Fadeaway_J]

Bookers advanced numbers in the playoffs are so mediocre for the hype hes getting. If you replaced him with 19 Lou Williams would the Suns be any worse off in the playoffs?

Hmm.

Booker in the playoffs is scoring 27.3 PPG on 57.7% TS as his team's big minute guy (in fact most total minutes of anyone in the league this season).

Lou '19 in the playoffs scored 21.7 PPG on 53.3% TS coming off (and playing against) the bench.

Booker also 4 inches taller and much more able to get his shot off against tough competition in general, to say nothing of being a better backcourt fit for Paul than another hobbit.

Seems to me that if the Suns replace Booker with Lou, they immediately get "upset" by the Lakers

That would appear to be fairly obvious