Ben Simmons Trade Thread

[syntax]

Embiid is aware of where he needs to improve with his passing and turnovers. He isn't a dumb guy. He didn't grow up playing team bball from an early age and this is a symptom of that. He knows and has said he needs to make others on the team better.

Ben definitly knows what he has to do better.

The coaches and trainers got a good look at the team this year.

So did Morey, hopefully he can sort out the bench and add some more options to the starting lineup.

It literally has nothing to do with his awareness or sitting down and talking to Popeye Jones and Dave Joerger. The issue is that we don't have anyone besides rookie Maxey that's able to comfortably operate the offense out of the halfcourt. Ben Simmons is not that guy, not only via skill, but also via a bully approach ala Zion or Giannis. He's afraid of the ball, has no touch around the rim and does not want to shoot free throws.

I'm sick of arguing about Ben but he is all skill, regulary bullies his way to the ring for dunks but his role is defender and facilitator, so that's what he does. I hope he scores more next season and I bet the coaches will want him to also.

Just like the close out game 5 agaisnt the Wizards where Ben had 19,10,11 1 stl, 2 blk without Embiid.

[76ciology]

Spoiler:

Well they are going to have to learn to be good crunch time players. They will.

Also it can't be understated how bad the bench was in the entire playoffs.

It’s one thing to “trust the process” when you’re doing it the right way, and another thing to “trust the process” when you’re doing it the wrong way.

I just think the later will punish you with a lot of opportunity cost.

Every year, I see players in the draft that I’d rather build around than Embiid or Ben.

If we rebuild right now and do it the right way of building a team, i can guarantee you 100%, we’re going to win a championship earlier than just staying with the status quo.

Even in this year’s weak draft I can already find opportunities.

Give me Sexton, Garland, Jalen Green and a pick over Embiid. Give me Suggs, Cade, kuminga or Wagner over Ben Simmons.

Nah Embiid and Simmons are unicorns that are needed to build a contender. They are both irreplaceable.

Sexton is going to demand the max coming off his rookie deal, he is not an option.

I don't know the answer, but Lou Williams and Reggie Jackson are winning games for their teams in the conf finals. Anything can happen.

“They are unicorns.”
So?

A unicorn, who have won the MVP, is playing as a mere “roll man” in Milwaukee

[syntax]

Who's that?

[76ciology]

Who's that?

Giannis.

It’s Jrue and Middleton who have been initiating the offense. It’s Giannis who’s doing the other stuffs and providing pressure release valve scoring off Rolling to the basket and transition baskets

[syntax]

Who's that?

Giannis.

It’s Jrue and Middleton who have been initiating the offense. It’s Giannis who’s doing the other stuffs and providing pressure release valve scoring off Rolling to the basket and transition baskets

Giannis in playoffs -

28, 13, 5, 1 stl, 1 blk on 55% FG%

His % of assisted FG is within .003 of last season.

He is being assisted on less dunks than last year.

He leads the bucks in win shares and his box plus minus is off the charts, he is 3 times that of Middleton.

I'm sorry to prove you so wrong.

[the_process]

Embiid is aware of where he needs to improve with his passing and turnovers. He isn't a dumb guy. He didn't grow up playing team bball from an early age and this is a symptom of that. He knows and has said he needs to make others on the team better.

Ben definitly knows what he has to do better.

The coaches and trainers got a good look at the team this year.

So did Morey, hopefully he can sort out the bench and add some more options to the starting lineup.

It literally has nothing to do with his awareness or sitting down and talking to Popeye Jones and Dave Joerger. The issue is that we don't have anyone besides rookie Maxey that's able to comfortably operate the offense out of the halfcourt. Ben Simmons is not that guy, not only via skill, but also via a bully approach ala Zion or Giannis. He's afraid of the ball, has no touch around the rim and does not want to shoot free throws.

Tobias has one of the stiffest handles I've ever seen. No wiggle. He can't break down defenses and he'd rather play bully ball or attack the rim going downhill anyways. Seth... maybe in micro spurts as a secondary creator - but you dilute his main skillset having him try and breakdown defenses anyways. He's also tiny with not much burst and gets flogged by taller & physical defenders. Green can't dribble.

What does that leave us when we desperately need a bucket? Dumping the ball into Joel Embiid and clearing out. Even through doubles and triples. A lot of the time we can't even get the ball into his space because he's already being flogged by opposing defenses that know we don't have another option... The offense is archaic because we lack the specific profiles on this roster that are necessary for running a modernized and efficient offense.

This team isn't ready to compete for anything but vibes of the year awards until we get a star creator and probably another one that can get buckets off the bench.

Fast forward to the draft though, Daryl Morey knows this as much as we do, and more.

[Bum Adebayo]

No run it back again, we've had 4 years to see the deficiencies, Simmons is just not the player we need in our team. He can be a positive in spurts and play good defense, but he cannot play with Embiid on offense, just stop this experiment and stop trying to force it to work, Embiid deserves much better and we need to find him a player that can score on the ball at all three levels and to not have a 4 vs 5 on offense.

[76ciology]

Embiid is aware of where he needs to improve with his passing and turnovers. He isn't a dumb guy. He didn't grow up playing team bball from an early age and this is a symptom of that. He knows and has said he needs to make others on the team better.

Ben definitly knows what he has to do better.

The coaches and trainers got a good look at the team this year.

So did Morey, hopefully he can sort out the bench and add some more options to the starting lineup.

It literally has nothing to do with his awareness or sitting down and talking to Popeye Jones and Dave Joerger. The issue is that we don't have anyone besides rookie Maxey that's able to comfortably operate the offense out of the halfcourt. Ben Simmons is not that guy, not only via skill, but also via a bully approach ala Zion or Giannis. He's afraid of the ball, has no touch around the rim and does not want to shoot free throws.

Tobias has one of the stiffest handles I've ever seen. No wiggle. He can't break down defenses and he'd rather play bully ball or attack the rim going downhill anyways. Seth... maybe in micro spurts as a secondary creator - but you dilute his main skillset having him try and breakdown defenses anyways. He's also tiny with not much burst and gets flogged by taller & physical defenders. Green can't dribble.

What does that leave us when we desperately need a bucket? Dumping the ball into Joel Embiid and clearing out. Even through doubles and triples. A lot of the time we can't even get the ball into his space because he's already being flogged by opposing defenses that know we don't have another option... The offense is archaic because we lack the specific profiles on this roster that are necessary for running a modernized and efficient offense.

This team isn't ready to compete for anything but vibes of the year awards until we get a star creator and probably another one that can get buckets off the bench.

Fast forward to the draft though, Daryl Morey knows this as much as we do, and more.

[mjkvol]

Who's that?

Giannis.

It’s Jrue and Middleton who have been initiating the offense. It’s Giannis who’s doing the other stuffs and providing pressure release valve scoring off Rolling to the basket and transition baskets

Giannis in playoffs -

28, 13, 5, 1 stl, 1 blk on 55% FG%

His % of assisted FG is within .003 of last season.

He is being assisted on less dunks than last year.

He leads the bucks in win shares and his box plus minus is off the charts, he is 3 times that of Middleton.

I'm sorry to prove you so wrong.

Do you actually watch games or just read the stat sheet afterwards? Stats are a nice thing for agents to use at contract time and provide information for coaches regarding strategy and game planning, but actually seeing the game and understanding why a team breaks down in critical spots and making proper adjustments is what organizations that win in the playoffs do.

The Sixers finally have a guy in Morey who undertands this and will hopefully make those adjustments regarding the roster this off season. Whether or not we have the right coach to take that mindset to the court is a huge question mark.

[Ferry Avenue]

Embiid is aware of where he needs to improve with his passing and turnovers. He isn't a dumb guy. He didn't grow up playing team bball from an early age and this is a symptom of that. He knows and has said he needs to make others on the team better.

Ben definitly knows what he has to do better.

The coaches and trainers got a good look at the team this year.

So did Morey, hopefully he can sort out the bench and add some more options to the starting lineup.

It literally has nothing to do with his awareness or sitting down and talking to Popeye Jones and Dave Joerger. The issue is that we don't have anyone besides rookie Maxey that's able to comfortably operate the offense out of the halfcourt. Ben Simmons is not that guy, not only via skill, but also via a bully approach ala Zion or Giannis. He's afraid of the ball, has no touch around the rim and does not want to shoot free throws.

Tobias has one of the stiffest handles I've ever seen. No wiggle. He can't break down defenses and he'd rather play bully ball or attack the rim going downhill anyways. Seth... maybe in micro spurts as a secondary creator - but you dilute his main skillset having him try and breakdown defenses anyways. He's also tiny with not much burst and gets hounded by taller & physical defenders. Green can't dribble.

Where does this leave us when we desperately need a bucket? Dumping the ball into Joel Embiid and clearing out. Even through doubles and triples. A lot of the time we can't even get the ball into his space because he's already being flogged by opposing defenses that know we don't have another option... The offense is archaic and we continually crumble because we lack essential scoring profiles that decide playoff games and championship outcomes.

This team isn't ready to compete for anything but vibes of the year awards until we get a star creator and probably another one that can get buckets off the bench.

Fast forward to the draft though, Daryl Morey knows this as much as we do, and more.

And the issue is that in the playoffs most games are close, and so desperately needed buckets are aplenty. If you can't manufacture them, you lose.

[51X3RF4N]

Copying from the Maxey thread because I realize it may not have been the right place to post, although I am essentially trying to see people's thoughts on who fits best next to Tyrese, and asking who you could get in a Ben trade that would be an ideal fit...

Tyrese seems to be a volume scorer in the sense that he can get to the lane at will (seemingly) and finish in traffic. I think he'll get better at drawing fouls and getting to the line, and his PPG will go up from that. He's an average catch and shoot guy, and a decent pull up jumper guy, but definitely not consistent enough yet that you'd want him taking 8 deep range shots per game. He is clutch though, and appears to have a bit of a closer mentality, which is great. But he doesn't seem to have great passing skills, vision, etc. His defense is improving but my guess is he would struggle against quicker guards and also against taller SGs. And he may not be the best in the fast break with pushing the pace and finding the right reads for passes. So he's probably a 20+ppg scorer (somewhat efficiently if I had to guess) with limited defense, limited assist capability, and limited range as of now.

So who's the perfect ideal fit next to him?

Lonzo Ball? Lonzo can handle playmaking, passing, running the offense, defending multiple positions, fast break pace, deep 3pt shooting, etc.

Malcolm Brogdon? Malcolm is a 6'5, 225lb 3 and D guard who has PG skills. But is he quick enough to cover the faster PGs of the league?

If you were tasked with building a roster around Joel and Tyrese as your 1-2 punch, keeping Tobias and bringing Seth off the bench what does that look like?

Embiid/Howard/Reed
Harris/?
Green/Thybulle/Korkmaz
?/Curry/Joe
Maxey/Hill

Fill in the blanks. Simmons for who?


Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[DCasey91]

I’d like to see our true numbers in playoffs 1st half in comparison to second halves.

We can 100% run up leads on a lot of occasions heck even the Raptors we weren’t overawed by the pressure we just lose leads just as quickly, but that happens because of a reason (scoring is barren).

I think there’s a distinct theory that our scorer doesn’t have to be some godly creation. Just high level enough.

There is some merit to a Lavine/CJ type over going all in on Lillard if our defense takes a hit.

We should be predominantly defensive like the Lakers. The massive difference is they versed easier teams in the end and Lebron himself can act as 1a/1b or secondary scorer and just a far far superior version of Ben at every step of the way possible.

The experiment is too late now. Just wished both actually had a viable backcourt pairing (PG/SG) for more than one year. It’s basketball surely as a fan that shouldn’t be too much of an issue when we had mountains of assets. The draft picks in hindsight after Fultz makes ZERO sense to me.

[jbent87]

Well they are going to have to learn to be good crunch time players. They will.

Also it can't be understated how bad the bench was in the entire playoffs.

It’s one thing to “trust the process” when you’re doing it the right way, and another thing to “trust the process” when you’re doing it the wrong way.

I just think the later will punish you with a lot of opportunity cost.

Every year, I see players in the draft that I’d rather build around than Embiid or Ben.

If we rebuild right now and do it the right way of building a team, i can guarantee you 100%, we’re going to win a championship earlier than just staying with the status quo.

Even in this year’s weak draft I can already find opportunities.

Give me Sexton, Garland, Jalen Green and a pick over Embiid. Give me Suggs, Cade, kuminga or Wagner over Ben Simmons.

Nah Embiid and Simmons are unicorns that are needed to build a contender. They are both irreplaceable.

Sexton is going to demand the max coming off his rookie deal, he is not an option.

I don't know the answer, but Lou Williams and Reggie Jackson are winning games for their teams in the conf finals. Anything can happen.

not sure what your definition of "irreplaceable" is. But a month from now when Simmons isn't on the team any longer I guess we're gonna find out.

[flaco]

Celtics fan here. Would you guys consider this trade?



Smart is possibly the second most versatile/switchable guard defender in the NBA behind only Ben Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with). He's also a willing passer and a reliable ball handler.

Fournier would operate as a secondary shot creator. He can create shots for himself. He can create shots for his teammates as well. He can even run the PnR a little bit.

Nesmith is a very promising 3+D wing. He was a lotto pick last year.

[76ciology]

Celtics fan here. Would you guys consider this trade?



Smart is possibly the second most versatile/switchable guard defender in the NBA behind only Ben Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with).

Fournier would operate as a secondar shot creator. He can create shots for himself. He can create shots for his teammates as well. He can even run the PnR a little bit.

Nesmith is a very promising 3+D wing. He was a lotto pick last year.

We’re not looking for depth.

We’re looking for a top tier star for Ben. Someone like Dame. Or a package of young players like Sexton.

If we have to simply give up Ben and get more than an asset in return, it’s already a red flag.

The right structure of a Ben Simmons trade is we need to give up Ben and multiple assets and get a single asset in return.

In example:
Ben + picks + Thybulle for Harden
Ben + Thybulle for Dame

[Foshan]

Celtics fan here. Would you guys consider this trade?



Smart is possibly the second most versatile/switchable guard defender in the NBA behind only Ben Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with). He's also a willing passer and a reliable ball handler.

Fournier would operate as a secondary shot creator. He can create shots for himself. He can create shots for his teammates as well. He can even run the PnR a little bit.

Nesmith is a very promising 3+D wing. He was a lotto pick last year.

No.

To be honest, i think you would have a hard time finding many people around here who have any desire to make a deal with Boston, even if it was a good one. Which IMO this really isn't. There are alot of picks attached... but really at team of Tatum-Simmons-Brown is going to be picking 25+ for the next 10 years.

[flaco]

Celtics fan here. Would you guys consider this trade?



Smart is possibly the second most versatile/switchable guard defender in the NBA behind only Ben Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with).

Fournier would operate as a secondar shot creator. He can create shots for himself. He can create shots for his teammates as well. He can even run the PnR a little bit.

Nesmith is a very promising 3+D wing. He was a lotto pick last year.

We’re not looking for depth.

We’re looking for a top tier star for Ben. Someone like Dame. Or a package of young players like Sexton.

If we have to simply give up Ben and get more than an asset in return, it’s already a red flag.

The right structure of a Ben Simmons trade is we need to give up Ben and multiple assets and get a single asset in return.

In example:
Ben + picks + Thybulle for Harden
Ben + Thybulle for Dame

Fair enough. What if no such player becomes available though?

Would you rather have the above package from the C's or (for instance) McCollum + a couple of picks from the Blazers? Or would you rather keep Simmons and run it back?

[Wilfried]

Would you rather have the above package from the C's or (for instance) McCollum + a couple of picks from the Blazers? Or would you rather keep Simmons and run it back?

You keep him until a star is available.
You'll never get Harden is McColumn if your trade chip (+ picks etc off course) so you keep him and wait until there's a new opportunity.

[76ciology]

Celtics fan here. Would you guys consider this trade?



Smart is possibly the second most versatile/switchable guard defender in the NBA behind only Ben Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with).

Fournier would operate as a secondar shot creator. He can create shots for himself. He can create shots for his teammates as well. He can even run the PnR a little bit.

Nesmith is a very promising 3+D wing. He was a lotto pick last year.

We’re not looking for depth.

We’re looking for a top tier star for Ben. Someone like Dame. Or a package of young players like Sexton.

If we have to simply give up Ben and get more than an asset in return, it’s already a red flag.

The right structure of a Ben Simmons trade is we need to give up Ben and multiple assets and get a single asset in return.

In example:
Ben + picks + Thybulle for Harden
Ben + Thybulle for Dame

Fair enough. What if no such player becomes available though?

Would you rather have the above package from the C's or (for instance) McCollum + a couple of picks from the Blazers? Or would you rather keep Simmons and run it back?

Then we hold and run it back. Ben is only 24. We can find ways to pad his stats and make him look good out there

[jbent87]

Celtics fan here. Would you guys consider this trade?



Smart is possibly the second most versatile/switchable guard defender in the NBA behind only Ben Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with).

Fournier would operate as a secondar shot creator. He can create shots for himself. He can create shots for his teammates as well. He can even run the PnR a little bit.

Nesmith is a very promising 3+D wing. He was a lotto pick last year.

We’re not looking for depth.

We’re looking for a top tier star for Ben. Someone like Dame. Or a package of young players like Sexton.

If we have to simply give up Ben and get more than an asset in return, it’s already a red flag.

The right structure of a Ben Simmons trade is we need to give up Ben and multiple assets and get a single asset in return.

In example:
Ben + picks + Thybulle for Harden
Ben + Thybulle for Dame

Fair enough. What if no such player becomes available though?

Would you rather have the above package from the C's or (for instance) McCollum + a couple of picks from the Blazers? Or would you rather keep Simmons and run it back?

with all due respect - I don't think you realize how much of a living hell we would have on our hands in sending Ben to Boston where he turns it around and then haunts us along with Tatum for the next 10 years. Its definitely not the worst offer I've seen for him, but considering the division rivalry, there just isn't a deal to be made.