ImageImageImage

2021 Draft

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

User avatar
darealjuice
Suns Forum Future All Star
Posts: 6,694
And1: 8,900
Joined: Apr 22, 2016
Location: Phoenix
   

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#241 » by darealjuice » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:27 pm

Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Duarte and Garza would be pretty solid for us. However, I for my part fully expect them to be gone off the board by the early to mid 20s'. Garza is definitely also a solid old school big with an impressive BPM. But overall he's basically a slightly bigger/ heavier version of Saric. Better post scorer and spot up shooter, But lacks similar passing ability, Is also ( like Saric) very heavy footed and plodding. His lack of lateral quickness and inability to recover would make him a liability defensively for us. Also like Saric, He's not at all a rim protector.

He'd be solid value in the mid to late 2nd perhaps. But for my part, I'm just not sure that ( regardless of BPM) he'd fit our quick recovery, swarming, multipositional 3 and D scheme. As a pick "n" pop option he's definitely solid though. Still if going off of BPM, Of which you're very right that is a strong indicator of what type of prospects Jones prioritizes, Here are also some solid considerations with solid BPMs.

For guards-

- Ayo Dosunma
http://www.tankathon.com/players/ayo-dosunmu
( 9.5 BPM). Very solid across the board in terms of production. Just needs to work on his shooting efficiency more. But he's got good size at 6'5 almost 200 lbs, And is a clutch player with decent game management skills.

- Miles McBride
http://www.tankathon.com/players/miles-mcbride
( 9.5 BPM). Very solid both offensively and defensively. Has a style of play similar to Kyle Lowry. Very strong in the post.

- Joel Ayayi
http://www.tankathon.com/players/joel-ayayi
( 9.6 BPM). Solid across the board, But doesn't have any outlier abilities that indicate star or starter potential.
Likely a very solid backup guard in the mold of a Delon Wright/ Andrew Miller?

- McKinley Wright
http://www.tankathon.com/players/mckinley-wright-iv
( 10.2 BPM). Only real weakness apart from size is his 3 pt shooting has to get better. But still very solid.

For Bigs-

Jay Huff-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jay-huff
Huff is a mobile, lanky 7'1 big with a 7'5 wingspan who is a solid shotblocker and can also hit the 3 too ( 38%) His BPM is 11.9.

Neemias Queta-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/neemias-queta
Queta is a 7 ft center with a 7'4 wingspan. He's a very solid defender, rebounder and shotblocker. His ballhandling is very poor but he's also a good passer which Jones likes. His BPM is ( 12.2) better than all others listed aside from Garza of course. Lastly, Trey Murphy 3rd may not have the highest BPM indicator as the others do, But he's got good size at 6'9 with a 7 ft wingspan. Is a knockdown shooter with good lateral mobility and is a very solid perimeter defender with multipositional defensive potential. He I believe fits Jones archetype very well aside from BPM. What are your thoughts on these other prospects man??? :dontknow:


Oh my comment was 100% tongue in cheek lol. Butler would depend on his medical issues, and Duarte is interesting but an older prospect. I expect both to be gone by 29 though. Garza dropping 30 pounds for the combine impressed me, but I don't think he can guard in the NBA. He'd certainly be the James Jones "out of nowhere" special though lol.

I haven't done much draft research outside of casual viewing and looking at mock drafts. I might start watching more film after this dream ends, but probably a waste of time since James Jones will pick someone out of left field. Guard-wise Ayo Dosunmu, Cam Thomas, Tre Mann, Joel Ayayi, Miles McBride, and Daeshin Nix catch my eye. I like Jared Butler, but he might not be able to play. Trey Murphy and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl are interesting forwards. Day'Ron Sharpe and Isaiah Jackson are probably the bigs that interest me most. I've never watched Queta but he seems interesting. Getting close to throwing darts at this point in the draft anyways.
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#242 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:34 am

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-draft-combine-winners-and-losers-keon-johnson-soars-college-stars-struggle-in-front-of-scouts/



Learn More

The first NBA Draft Combine held since 2019 did not disappoint as prospects from across the country and around the globe gathered in Chicago last week to showcase themselves in front of NBA decision-makers, scouts and media.

While top-five projected picks Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley and Jalen Suggs were not among the more than six dozen participants at the combine, it was nonetheless a meaningful experience that moved the needle and shook up big boards for teams. And with just over a month until the draft, it provided a setting for firsthand evaluations in competitive settings -- the last one at that large of scale until the 2021 NBA Draft on July 29.

With the event behind us, let us take one look back in the rearview mirror to reflect on some of the big winners and losers from this year's combine. 

Winners: Potential stay-or-go prospects

While the combine is a forum where scouts can get a close look at every player, there was a heightened level of curiosity surrounding two players in particular who have for months been seen as toss-ups regarding their decision to stay in the draft or return to school: Alabama's Josh Primo and West Virginia's Miles McBride. 

Primo played 22.4 minutes per game on an Alabama team that won the SEC regular season and postseason titles, flashing potential in spurts with his shooting ability to go with his great positional size. At the combine, he solidified his case as a potential first-rounder should he stay in, as he knocked down shots and looked comfortable playing a more hands-on role as a creator and scorer.

The same was true of McBride, the second-year Mountaineers guard who really flashed last season averaging 15.8 points per game. McBride was helped by his impressive measurables -- he stands just 6-foot-1 without shoes but had a plus-7.75 wingspan -- and even more by his confidence on the court. A deadeye shooter, his stroke looked pure as ever and his defensive prowess as a pressure point at the lead guard spot -- which really flashed at West Virginia -- again helped him impress folks in Chicago.

Iowa junior guard Joe Wieskamp also did well for himself at the combine punctuated by a 26-point, 10-rebound performance in the final game of the combine. Wieskamp also had a 42-inch vertical leap and a nearly 7-foot wingspan. His size, length and shot-making ability at Iowa and at the combine should be enough to get him drafted -- now it's just a matter of how high he'll climb.


McBride and Weiscamp are both high on my board for their positions! Definitely two standout prospects that are going to be high impact players in the right situations. :wink:
Image
AtheJ415
Head Coach
Posts: 6,580
And1: 5,558
Joined: Jul 07, 2014

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#243 » by AtheJ415 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:50 am

darealjuice wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Duarte and Garza would be pretty solid for us. However, I for my part fully expect them to be gone off the board by the early to mid 20s'. Garza is definitely also a solid old school big with an impressive BPM. But overall he's basically a slightly bigger/ heavier version of Saric. Better post scorer and spot up shooter, But lacks similar passing ability, Is also ( like Saric) very heavy footed and plodding. His lack of lateral quickness and inability to recover would make him a liability defensively for us. Also like Saric, He's not at all a rim protector.

He'd be solid value in the mid to late 2nd perhaps. But for my part, I'm just not sure that ( regardless of BPM) he'd fit our quick recovery, swarming, multipositional 3 and D scheme. As a pick "n" pop option he's definitely solid though. Still if going off of BPM, Of which you're very right that is a strong indicator of what type of prospects Jones prioritizes, Here are also some solid considerations with solid BPMs.

For guards-

- Ayo Dosunma
http://www.tankathon.com/players/ayo-dosunmu
( 9.5 BPM). Very solid across the board in terms of production. Just needs to work on his shooting efficiency more. But he's got good size at 6'5 almost 200 lbs, And is a clutch player with decent game management skills.

- Miles McBride
http://www.tankathon.com/players/miles-mcbride
( 9.5 BPM). Very solid both offensively and defensively. Has a style of play similar to Kyle Lowry. Very strong in the post.

- Joel Ayayi
http://www.tankathon.com/players/joel-ayayi
( 9.6 BPM). Solid across the board, But doesn't have any outlier abilities that indicate star or starter potential.
Likely a very solid backup guard in the mold of a Delon Wright/ Andrew Miller?

- McKinley Wright
http://www.tankathon.com/players/mckinley-wright-iv
( 10.2 BPM). Only real weakness apart from size is his 3 pt shooting has to get better. But still very solid.

For Bigs-

Jay Huff-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jay-huff
Huff is a mobile, lanky 7'1 big with a 7'5 wingspan who is a solid shotblocker and can also hit the 3 too ( 38%) His BPM is 11.9.

Neemias Queta-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/neemias-queta
Queta is a 7 ft center with a 7'4 wingspan. He's a very solid defender, rebounder and shotblocker. His ballhandling is very poor but he's also a good passer which Jones likes. His BPM is ( 12.2) better than all others listed aside from Garza of course. Lastly, Trey Murphy 3rd may not have the highest BPM indicator as the others do, But he's got good size at 6'9 with a 7 ft wingspan. Is a knockdown shooter with good lateral mobility and is a very solid perimeter defender with multipositional defensive potential. He I believe fits Jones archetype very well aside from BPM. What are your thoughts on these other prospects man??? :dontknow:


Oh my comment was 100% tongue in cheek lol. Butler would depend on his medical issues, and Duarte is interesting but an older prospect. I expect both to be gone by 29 though. Garza dropping 30 pounds for the combine impressed me, but I don't think he can guard in the NBA. He'd certainly be the James Jones "out of nowhere" special though lol.

I haven't done much draft research outside of casual viewing and looking at mock drafts. I might start watching more film after this dream ends, but probably a waste of time since James Jones will pick someone out of left field. Guard-wise Ayo Dosunmu, Cam Thomas, Tre Mann, Joel Ayayi, Miles McBride, and Daeshin Nix catch my eye. I like Jared Butler, but he might not be able to play. Trey Murphy and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl are interesting forwards. Day'Ron Sharpe and Isaiah Jackson are probably the bigs that interest me most. I've never watched Queta but he seems interesting. Getting close to throwing darts at this point in the draft anyways.


McBride's surprising measurables make him a real option imo, but not sure just how many PGs we can have on this roster. Shannon wouldn't surprise me.
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#244 » by kennydorglas » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:30 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Full list of combine participants that played in the NCAA.
Click in the link to see them all, I couldnt manage to put here a decent image to avoid those links but if anyone is interested, this is what I got from this class.

PG
https://i.imgur.com/0Vj5aQI.jpeg
SG
https://i.imgur.com/guAJyPu.jpeg
SF
https://i.imgur.com/U5tsH7W.jpeg
PF
https://i.imgur.com/tqCnPLv.jpeg
C
https://i.imgur.com/RO2HVDd.jpeg


Nice to have you back with your analysis and scores based on your system. Just having looked at PGs so far, based on your color scheme, lots of red. Looks like, based on that, Miles McBride and McKinley Wright should be looked at, though size isn't great.

McBride has a long wingspan for size though, solid projected 3pt shooter, and good with steals. Wright could be a nice candidate for a 2 way if we can get him undrafted.

I don't see Jay Ayayi though and I think he could be the pick if there based on looking at what he is good at, being a vet from a great team, etc. Why didn't he make your analysis?


This list is only for combine participants. I'll look at some big boards and add those missing.
You're right, there's A LOT of raw prospects in this draft or A LOT of archie goodwin's there.
Maybe they'll pan out, but most of those guys who couldnt perform in the NCAA become busts.
But if you have the right skill (like Coby White), there's a chance... although I dont understand why he was drafted so high
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#245 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:06 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Duarte and Garza would be pretty solid for us. However, I for my part fully expect them to be gone off the board by the early to mid 20s'. Garza is definitely also a solid old school big with an impressive BPM. But overall he's basically a slightly bigger/ heavier version of Saric. Better post scorer and spot up shooter, But lacks similar passing ability, Is also ( like Saric) very heavy footed and plodding. His lack of lateral quickness and inability to recover would make him a liability defensively for us. Also like Saric, He's not at all a rim protector.

He'd be solid value in the mid to late 2nd perhaps. But for my part, I'm just not sure that ( regardless of BPM) he'd fit our quick recovery, swarming, multipositional 3 and D scheme. As a pick "n" pop option he's definitely solid though. Still if going off of BPM, Of which you're very right that is a strong indicator of what type of prospects Jones prioritizes, Here are also some solid considerations with solid BPMs.

For guards-

- Ayo Dosunma
http://www.tankathon.com/players/ayo-dosunmu
( 9.5 BPM). Very solid across the board in terms of production. Just needs to work on his shooting efficiency more. But he's got good size at 6'5 almost 200 lbs, And is a clutch player with decent game management skills.

- Miles McBride
http://www.tankathon.com/players/miles-mcbride
( 9.5 BPM). Very solid both offensively and defensively. Has a style of play similar to Kyle Lowry. Very strong in the post.

- Joel Ayayi
http://www.tankathon.com/players/joel-ayayi
( 9.6 BPM). Solid across the board, But doesn't have any outlier abilities that indicate star or starter potential.
Likely a very solid backup guard in the mold of a Delon Wright/ Andrew Miller?

- McKinley Wright
http://www.tankathon.com/players/mckinley-wright-iv
( 10.2 BPM). Only real weakness apart from size is his 3 pt shooting has to get better. But still very solid.

For Bigs-

Jay Huff-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jay-huff
Huff is a mobile, lanky 7'1 big with a 7'5 wingspan who is a solid shotblocker and can also hit the 3 too ( 38%) His BPM is 11.9.

Neemias Queta-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/neemias-queta
Queta is a 7 ft center with a 7'4 wingspan. He's a very solid defender, rebounder and shotblocker. His ballhandling is very poor but he's also a good passer which Jones likes. His BPM is ( 12.2) better than all others listed aside from Garza of course. Lastly, Trey Murphy 3rd may not have the highest BPM indicator as the others do, But he's got good size at 6'9 with a 7 ft wingspan. Is a knockdown shooter with good lateral mobility and is a very solid perimeter defender with multipositional defensive potential. He I believe fits Jones archetype very well aside from BPM. What are your thoughts on these other prospects man??? :dontknow:


Oh my comment was 100% tongue in cheek lol. Butler would depend on his medical issues, and Duarte is interesting but an older prospect. I expect both to be gone by 29 though. Garza dropping 30 pounds for the combine impressed me, but I don't think he can guard in the NBA. He'd certainly be the James Jones "out of nowhere" special though lol.

I haven't done much draft research outside of casual viewing and looking at mock drafts. I might start watching more film after this dream ends, but probably a waste of time since James Jones will pick someone out of left field. Guard-wise Ayo Dosunmu, Cam Thomas, Tre Mann, Joel Ayayi, Miles McBride, and Daeshin Nix catch my eye. I like Jared Butler, but he might not be able to play. Trey Murphy and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl are interesting forwards. Day'Ron Sharpe and Isaiah Jackson are probably the bigs that interest me most. I've never watched Queta but he seems interesting. Getting close to throwing darts at this point in the draft anyways.


McBride's surprising measurables make him a real option imo, but not sure just how many PGs we can have on this roster. Shannon wouldn't surprise me.


I agree on having too many point guards! For my part, I do believe though that Carter and Galloway should be gone, Since Monty refuses to play them anyways ( even though they could contribute I'm sure in this series)! I'm positive that Carter could of locked up Jackson well with his speed, relentless ballhawking and tenacity. And Galloway could have come off screens whilst the Ckippers were focused on Paul and Booker and buried a ton of threes wh efff n the rest of the team couldn't hit Ish! But whatever it seems! A good coach should Know their personnel well, But Monty seems to know very little about anything at all!

Moore honestly sucks and should be gone regardless. He's been the point guard version of Saric for us, Not being able to really contribute anything when it's needed most. Payne has been great obviously! But I feel that he should be moved to a 6th man scoring position off the bench ala Lou Williams or Jordan Clarkson role ( should free him up to do more damage too)! Ideally Booker or Payne (,off ball, As a secondary ball handler) should have a strong defensive/ adequate to good floor general type to help cover those issues. McBride is an example of a Lowry guard who not only has an elite jumpshot, But is very sound defensively and is very strong in the post as well. He's actually very comparable to Kyle Lowry. I DO AGREE that we have too many guards on the roster, But again, We have Carter and Galloway that are just rotting on the bench and not even being utilized ( close to 6 million in wasted salary cap space between them).

So that represents at least two spots for consideration! And again Moore sucks and has also been somewhat of a waste too. He should also be replaced too! Altogether, That's at least 3 potentially open roster spots in the backcourt. And that's assuming that Paul does resign after this monumental choke job from him and the team when it mattered most. I could totally see him taking less to join one of those two LA teams if we don't get our Ish together and advance.

Overall though, We do need to start being somewhat proactive and secure a point guard that can eventually be a successor to Paul and take over when he leaves/ retires. I also agree that Shannon would be interesting for sure! But still kinda prefer JT Thor ( 3 and D multipositional perimeter and post lockdown ability) / Murphy 3rd ( offense and perimeter multipositional defensive ability) / Herbert Jones ( lockdown multipositional defensive ability) ahead of Shannon who himself is also still a good defender too!

** What's truly sad is that the salaries of Carter/ Galloway ( not even playing) and Saric and Crowder ( provided next to nothing when it mattered most) equate to around 26 million in wasted cap flexibility!!! That could have easily been applied to Jerami Grant ( with 6 million left over, Or Christian Wood ( with around 13 million left over ( from what each signed for) and we still could have filled out our roster reasonably with other bmvets that Monty also wouldn't play! But either Grant or Wood would've obviously provided much better production and defense to what Saric and Crowder have shown! And likely offense as well.
Image
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#246 » by kennydorglas » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:25 pm

Added more non-combine participants and some guys included in the tankathon big board
Click in the image to see it bigger.
So now Jalen Suggs (as SG) and Franz Wagner made the cut for the 3-level scorer threshold.
Drew Timme and Oscar da Silva for bigs.

Jalen Johnson is a terrific playmaker, GOD LORD. Rated like a primary ballhandler right there.

PG (added Jalen Suggs, Joel Ayayi, Chris Duarte)
Image
SG
Image
SF (added Romeo Weems, Franz Wagner, Ron Harper)
Image
PF (added Jalen Johnson -had the wrong one here lol, Drew Timme, Oscar da Silva and Jay Huff)
Image
C
Image
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#247 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:22 pm

What are peoples' thoughts on Wright with a 2nd round pick ( bought or acquired via trade)?
He's apparently been very solid in the combine scrimmages!
https://www.ralphiereport.com/2021/6/29/22555983/mckinley-wright-moving-up-nba-draft-boards

Jonathan Givony of ESPN was clearly impressed. He included Wright in his column (subscription) on winners and losers of the combine, writing a detailed scouting report:

The 22-year-old Colorado guard moved himself into the draft conversation by more than holding his own against some of the NCAA’s top guards, averaging 9.8 points, 7.5 rebounds and 12.1 assists per 40 minutes over two scrimmages. Wright’s defensive intensity caught the eye of NBA scouts. He routinely picked up 94 feet, got underneath bigger guards and proved to be a pest by staying attached, fighting over screens. Wright is also an excellent positional rebounder who can fill in the gaps on the offensive end as a cutter, driver, midrange shooter, occasional floor spacer and facilitator. At just 6 feet in shoes, Wright isn’t the most dynamic off-the-dribble passer. He regularly puts two hands on the ball before making pick-and-roll reads, especially when faced with size and length. Despite a strong floater and smooth midrange game, he’s still gaining consistency on his 3-point shot (33% in 130 college games). But Wright has impressed NBA teams thoroughly in interviews with a mature approach to the game and understanding of his projected role, regularly referencing longtime backups like Ish Smith as a career blueprint.

Hearing that Wright impressed during interviews is no surprise at all. He loves basketball more than anything and has a known reputation as a hard worker and leader. It’s great to see that he’s trying to model his career after realistic comparisons, because that’s his route towards cracking an NBA roster.

It’s also worth noting that Wright posted good measurements at the combine. There’s a joke about 6’0 guards being closer to 5’9 than their actual height, but it turns out that’s his actual height (with shoes on). He posted a 6’5 wingspan, which at +6 is better than most NBA players at +3 or +4. His hand size (8.5’ length, 9.0’ width) was up there with wings and forwards.


this would allow us to target a big ( backup center) in one of Queta, Huff, or Bassey perhaps??? Although i'd much rather take a higher profile guard or Multi positional wing (3/4) at 29 And then IBOU DIANKO BADJI ( more athletic Gobert)! with a late 2nd.

**We also severely lack intensity, aggression and defensive tenacity. a really solid, aggressive high energy big like Moses Wright could really help our cause!

Moses Wright-
https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/moses-wright-scouting-report/

In this scenario, Two Wrights' don't make a wrong! :D
Image
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#248 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:31 am

Image
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#249 » by kennydorglas » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:53 am

Hopefully hyland won't be a hype train.
I would be very happy with him at 29
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#250 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:46 am

kennydorglas wrote:Hopefully hyland won't be a hype train.
I would be very happy with him at 29


He'll definitely need to add serious strength, But his range is legit! It would definitely help to open up the paint for us more. He'll also struggle a bit with situational nuance and poise early on, But he's a slithery, crafty scorer with good lateral quickness. And IF he can really learn well from Paul to become a better play maker and defender ( strategies/ veteran tricks) Then I think he'll be able to replicate a bit of the Trae Young effect somewhat. But his success will be largely predicated upon his ability to add weight/ strength more than anything else. He might be somewhat redundant though with Payne. I personally see Payne in more of a 6th man role ala Lou Williams or Jordan Clarkson. And would be looking for more of a floor general two way play making guard such as one of: Cooper/ Mcbride/Mann/Dosunma/ Mckinley Wright/ Jason Preston or Carlos Alocen. DJ Carton is electric and vertically explosive too.

One interesting name i'm going to mention that isn't really on anyones' radar yet it seems, But would be quite unique for his size as a playmaker ( 3/4) with some guard skills is Vrenz Bleijenbergh Vrenz is basically a 6'10 wing facilitator with multipositional skills, And who is very versatile.

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/vrenz-bleijenbergh/


My thinking was to do something unique and have our wing/ point guard initiate the offense through the 3/4. And then we'd be able to choose a lock down defensive guard to flank Booker in the back court. So essentially something like this ( post Paul):

PG - Josh Richardson or Justice Winslow (for defense) at the 1. Acquired through free agency or trade?
SG - Booker. Scoring/ passing.
SF - Vrenz. Facilitating/ defense ( using length and fluidity.
PF - Bridges or Cam Jo.
C - Ayton.
in certain mismatch situations, The back court could go huge with Booker 6'6 and Vrenz 6'10. Defenses collapse as Booker and Vrenz find wide open shooters. Also Vrenz being 6'10 could easily find Ayton in the pick 'n' roll or post. :dontknow:
Also, There's another big with incredible play making and scoring to consider in Sandro Mamukeshevili. He's seriously a terrific passer at 6'11 260 lbs, Very similiar in play making and scoring to Jokic. Yet still under the radar a bit. So IF we feel that we couldn't really find another Chris Paul, Perhaps we target a very skilled, play making big to iniate our offense in the pick'n' roll and in the front court.
And surround them with very versatile 3 and D wings and lights out shooters?? Ayton continues to anchor our defense.
Image
User avatar
RedIndian
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,449
And1: 2,008
Joined: May 23, 2010

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#251 » by RedIndian » Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:22 am

Saw a bit of the Draft Combine scrimmage in my post game 5 depression. Players I liked:

Queta - Just a massive guy, who moves very well. Legit 7 footer with a 7'4 wingspan. Moved his feet really well on the perimeter and seemed to have a good idea of defensive rotations. Can definitely see this guy being a very good big in the NBA. Not sure if we'd draft him, but I think he's a first rounder for sure.

Josh Christopher - Looks like a lottery talent tbh. Supremely talented and athletic, in an Anthony Edwards kind of way. My only concern is that he comes across as a bit cocky and immature.

McKinley Wright IV - Really nice looking vet PG. Small (measured just 6'0), but has a big wingspan (6'5) and is very strong. Could be like a poor man's Lowry. Knows the pick and roll game and defends physically.

Jason Preston - Really like this kid's size (6'4 in shoes with a 6'8.5 wingspan). Looked very comfortable as a lead guard. Extremely poised, runs the pick and roll like a vet, and has a great stroke from deep. Terrific rebounder for a guard too (averaged 7.3 a game last year). I think he could be a Kennard type in the NBA. My concern is his slight frame and lack of lateral quickness, but he's a very high IQ player.

Quentin Grimes - Classic 3 and D guy. Jones would like him for sure.
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#252 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:26 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/evansidery/2021/06/30/four-2021-nba-draft-prospects-who-best-fit-the-phoenix-suns-identity/

Four 2021 NBA Draft Prospects Who Best Fit The Phoenix Suns’ Identity
Evan Sidery
Evan SideryContributor


Even though the Phoenix Suns are in the middle of an incredible playoff run, the 2021 NBA Draft is only one month away. What a change from how it used to be over the years as Phoenix laid dormant in rebuild attempts hoping for lottery luck with ping pong balls to fall their way.

This will be the first time in 11 years the Suns will not be picking in the lottery range. Instead, Phoenix will be near the bottom of the first round at No. 29 overall. Although it’s not on the minds of many Suns fans, this is an important pick for the future. Having a cost-controlled contract on the books for potentially five years is a golden opportunity to find a high-end role player who fits the timeline.

Luckily for Phoenix, the late first-round has some prospects who check a lot of the boxes GM James Jones has coveted. In their two most recent draft classes run by Jones, an emphasis on shooting, positional versatility, and character top the list. Also, another key factor to look over is the Suns’ current roster construction. Assuming Chris Paul either accepts his $44.2 million player option, or declines and signs a long-term extension for smaller annual value, Phoenix has six players about to hit the open market this offseason: Cameron Payne, Torrey Craig, Abdel Nader, E’Twaun Moore, Langston Galloway, and Frank Kaminsky. We will have to see whether the Suns are comfortable paying an above-market deal to keep Payne or Craig around, but it’s fair to assume Phoenix should be looking at ball handlers and wings in the draft to address potential roster holes.

Let’s take a look at four prospects who not only check the Suns’ emphasized boxes, but also could play immediate roles next season:





Ayo Dosunma, Ball Handler, Illinois:
In my opinion, there’s not a better fit into the Suns’ locker room at No. 29 overall than Dosunmu. The character traits in Dosunmu are off the charts, and his on-court prowess seems to fit what Phoenix prioritizes to near perfection.

Averaging 20.1 points, 6.3 rebounds, and 5.3 assists on a 56.8 true shooting percentage, Illinois’ All-American guard has the prototype of a pace-pushing lead guard who can score from all three levels. Dosunmu displaying an improvement on three-point shots was huge to his draft stock, hitting 39 percent on 2.9 attempts per game. Although Dosunmu’s mechanics still need a little bit of work with a low release point, I’m buying him becoming a positive shooter on the next level.

Dosunmu brings that winning mentality mindset to the table as well. In Year 1, I could easily envision Dosunmu being a backup guard who provides ample defensive energy and nonstop hustle on both ends.

I’m also intrigued by Dosnumu potentially having a multi-year apprenticeship under CP3. And it goes for any potential point guard selection in this year’s draft. Having an opportunity to soak up knowledge from Paul would do wonders for a potential Suns draft pick.

Jaden Springer, Ball Handler, Tennessee

According to Springer himself during NBA Draft Combine media availability, the Suns interviewed the 18-year-old from Tennessee. Springer’s profile is an intriguing fit within the Suns’ system, and one that could pay huge dividends down the road. As one of the youngest prospects in the draft, Springer perfectly fits the idea mentioned above about a potential Paul understudy.

During his one season with the Volunteers, Springer averaged 12.5 points, 2.9 assists, and 1.3 steals while shooting 44.4 percent on threes. Springer showcased an all-around game that has high potential in the Suns’ 0.5 offensive system while also being a tenacious on-ball defender who handled primary assignments.

At No. 29 overall, Springer is the type of dice roll organizations make to find hidden gems. If Springer is on the board, he should be very tempting for Phoenix. Although Jones has shown not to draft younger prospects since taking over as general manager, Springer should be the exception in the late first-round.

Nah’Shon Hyland, Ball Handler, VCU

One of the NBA Draft Combine’s biggest winners was Hyland, who displayed an array of offensive creativity as a three-level scorer. Jumping into a full-time starting role for VCU in 2020-21, Hyland thrived averaging 19.5 points on a 59.6 true shooting percentage.

Hyland’s two-way ability as a floor-spacer who also added 1.9 steals per game would provide an immediate boost to Phoenix’s bench. Squint hard enough and Hyland has the potential to be Cameron Payne 2.0, if the former 2015 lottery pick leaves in free agency.

The shot mechanics for Hyland should be mentioned as well, because it’s silky smooth and easily translatable to the NBA line. Hyland shot 39.9 percent from deep on six attempts per game while at VCU.

Whether it be Dosunmu, Springer, or Hyland, the Suns have an array of options to potentially find a Chris Paul understudy at No. 29 overall in this year’s draft.

Trey Murphy III, Wing, Virginia

When watching Murphy III’s tape, it jumps out right away he’s a James Jones type of prospect. The reason why is due to his sharpshooting ability. Murphy III transferred from Rice to Virginia and still did well with a big jump in competition averaging 11.3 points on a blistering 43.3 percent clip from deep.

Murphy also mentioned during the NBA Draft Combine he spoke with Phoenix, which further intensifies a potential prospect-team fit late in the first round.

At 6’9”, 206 pounds, Murphy III has a very similar physical profile to Suns wing Cameron Johnson. Johnson has shown through his two years in Phoenix he can play multiple positions while also providing spacing for stars Devin Booker and Deandre Ayton. In today’s NBA, you can never have enough shooters with positional versatility.

Tossing Murphy III on the court alongside Johnson and Mikal Bridges would space the floor to maximum capacity for Phoenix. With Craig and Nader unrestricted free agents, Murphy III can fill the void.
Image
User avatar
darealjuice
Suns Forum Future All Star
Posts: 6,694
And1: 8,900
Joined: Apr 22, 2016
Location: Phoenix
   

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#253 » by darealjuice » Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:46 pm

Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/evansidery/2021/06/30/four-2021-nba-draft-prospects-who-best-fit-the-phoenix-suns-identity/

Four 2021 NBA Draft Prospects Who Best Fit The Phoenix Suns’ Identity
Evan Sidery
Evan SideryContributor


Even though the Phoenix Suns are in the middle of an incredible playoff run, the 2021 NBA Draft is only one month away. What a change from how it used to be over the years as Phoenix laid dormant in rebuild attempts hoping for lottery luck with ping pong balls to fall their way.

This will be the first time in 11 years the Suns will not be picking in the lottery range. Instead, Phoenix will be near the bottom of the first round at No. 29 overall. Although it’s not on the minds of many Suns fans, this is an important pick for the future. Having a cost-controlled contract on the books for potentially five years is a golden opportunity to find a high-end role player who fits the timeline.

Luckily for Phoenix, the late first-round has some prospects who check a lot of the boxes GM James Jones has coveted. In their two most recent draft classes run by Jones, an emphasis on shooting, positional versatility, and character top the list. Also, another key factor to look over is the Suns’ current roster construction. Assuming Chris Paul either accepts his $44.2 million player option, or declines and signs a long-term extension for smaller annual value, Phoenix has six players about to hit the open market this offseason: Cameron Payne, Torrey Craig, Abdel Nader, E’Twaun Moore, Langston Galloway, and Frank Kaminsky. We will have to see whether the Suns are comfortable paying an above-market deal to keep Payne or Craig around, but it’s fair to assume Phoenix should be looking at ball handlers and wings in the draft to address potential roster holes.

Let’s take a look at four prospects who not only check the Suns’ emphasized boxes, but also could play immediate roles next season:





Ayo Dosunma, Ball Handler, Illinois:
In my opinion, there’s not a better fit into the Suns’ locker room at No. 29 overall than Dosunmu. The character traits in Dosunmu are off the charts, and his on-court prowess seems to fit what Phoenix prioritizes to near perfection.

Averaging 20.1 points, 6.3 rebounds, and 5.3 assists on a 56.8 true shooting percentage, Illinois’ All-American guard has the prototype of a pace-pushing lead guard who can score from all three levels. Dosunmu displaying an improvement on three-point shots was huge to his draft stock, hitting 39 percent on 2.9 attempts per game. Although Dosunmu’s mechanics still need a little bit of work with a low release point, I’m buying him becoming a positive shooter on the next level.

Dosunmu brings that winning mentality mindset to the table as well. In Year 1, I could easily envision Dosunmu being a backup guard who provides ample defensive energy and nonstop hustle on both ends.

I’m also intrigued by Dosnumu potentially having a multi-year apprenticeship under CP3. And it goes for any potential point guard selection in this year’s draft. Having an opportunity to soak up knowledge from Paul would do wonders for a potential Suns draft pick.

Jaden Springer, Ball Handler, Tennessee

According to Springer himself during NBA Draft Combine media availability, the Suns interviewed the 18-year-old from Tennessee. Springer’s profile is an intriguing fit within the Suns’ system, and one that could pay huge dividends down the road. As one of the youngest prospects in the draft, Springer perfectly fits the idea mentioned above about a potential Paul understudy.

During his one season with the Volunteers, Springer averaged 12.5 points, 2.9 assists, and 1.3 steals while shooting 44.4 percent on threes. Springer showcased an all-around game that has high potential in the Suns’ 0.5 offensive system while also being a tenacious on-ball defender who handled primary assignments.

At No. 29 overall, Springer is the type of dice roll organizations make to find hidden gems. If Springer is on the board, he should be very tempting for Phoenix. Although Jones has shown not to draft younger prospects since taking over as general manager, Springer should be the exception in the late first-round.

Nah’Shon Hyland, Ball Handler, VCU

One of the NBA Draft Combine’s biggest winners was Hyland, who displayed an array of offensive creativity as a three-level scorer. Jumping into a full-time starting role for VCU in 2020-21, Hyland thrived averaging 19.5 points on a 59.6 true shooting percentage.

Hyland’s two-way ability as a floor-spacer who also added 1.9 steals per game would provide an immediate boost to Phoenix’s bench. Squint hard enough and Hyland has the potential to be Cameron Payne 2.0, if the former 2015 lottery pick leaves in free agency.

The shot mechanics for Hyland should be mentioned as well, because it’s silky smooth and easily translatable to the NBA line. Hyland shot 39.9 percent from deep on six attempts per game while at VCU.

Whether it be Dosunmu, Springer, or Hyland, the Suns have an array of options to potentially find a Chris Paul understudy at No. 29 overall in this year’s draft.

Trey Murphy III, Wing, Virginia

When watching Murphy III’s tape, it jumps out right away he’s a James Jones type of prospect. The reason why is due to his sharpshooting ability. Murphy III transferred from Rice to Virginia and still did well with a big jump in competition averaging 11.3 points on a blistering 43.3 percent clip from deep.

Murphy also mentioned during the NBA Draft Combine he spoke with Phoenix, which further intensifies a potential prospect-team fit late in the first round.

At 6’9”, 206 pounds, Murphy III has a very similar physical profile to Suns wing Cameron Johnson. Johnson has shown through his two years in Phoenix he can play multiple positions while also providing spacing for stars Devin Booker and Deandre Ayton. In today’s NBA, you can never have enough shooters with positional versatility.

Tossing Murphy III on the court alongside Johnson and Mikal Bridges would space the floor to maximum capacity for Phoenix. With Craig and Nader unrestricted free agents, Murphy III can fill the void.


Wow Sidery is writing for Forbes now? Good for him, nice step up from the BSOTS days
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#254 » by kennydorglas » Thu Jul 1, 2021 4:07 pm

Im almost certain that we'll draft Trey Murphy if he's available.
Definitely fits the CamJo mold of hybrid forwards with great touch (although hes more athletic and cam more agile).
His personality matches well with our team too, we'll always need a hardworker and talented scorer off the bench.
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola
DRK
RealGM
Posts: 12,178
And1: 3,609
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
Location: Kentucky Suns
Contact:
   

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#255 » by DRK » Fri Jul 2, 2021 1:52 am

Are there any nice euro prospects/stashers we can take in this draft with our late 1st?
MrMiyagi wrote:Lob to DA for the win
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#256 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 2, 2021 5:03 am

DRK wrote:Are there any nice euro prospects/stashers we can take in this draft with our late 1st?


There are actually a few really unique and potentially high end talents to be considered for a draft and stash development consideration.

Vrenz Bleijenbergh-
A 6'10 - 6'11 multipositional wing with point guard skills and exceptional passing.
https://hoopsprospects.com/2021/05/30/vrenz-bleijenbergh-scouting-report-interview-highlights/
Read on Twitter
?s=20


Ibou Dianko Badji-
An otherworldly athetic 7'1 240 lb center with a 7'8 wingspan and a 9'10 standing reach. He's still pretty raw, But with more development and seasoning, He could be a more fluid, more explosive version of Rudy Gobert.
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/ibou-dianko-badji/
Read on Twitter
?s=20
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Amyr Sylla-
A 6'9 very fluid multi positional high motor big with a 7'2 wingspan and elite defensive potential, But still somewhat raw.
https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/amar-sylla-scouting-report/


I will say however, That I don't believe that the suns will look to use the 29th pick on a draft and stash prospect. But rather use it to find the eventual replacement to Paul, Or otherwise BPA that fits the Jones mold! ( Trey Murphy 3rd). :wink:
Image
DRK
RealGM
Posts: 12,178
And1: 3,609
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
Location: Kentucky Suns
Contact:
   

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#257 » by DRK » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:09 am

I hope we use our 29th pick for a draft and stash euro guard who can develop overseas.

I think we get 2-3 years of CP3 as our starter, with Payne backing him up.

We will have alot of cheap FA's wanting to come and play here, and get a chance at a deep playoff run. Vet mins? Rather have a prospect develop overseas.
MrMiyagi wrote:Lob to DA for the win
DRK
RealGM
Posts: 12,178
And1: 3,609
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
Location: Kentucky Suns
Contact:
   

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#258 » by DRK » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:12 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
DRK wrote:Are there any nice euro prospects/stashers we can take in this draft with our late 1st?


There are actually a few really unique and potentially high end talents to be considered for a draft and stash development consideration.

Vrenz Bleijenbergh-
A 6'10 - 6'11 multipositional wing with point guard skills and exceptional passing.
https://hoopsprospects.com/2021/05/30/vrenz-bleijenbergh-scouting-report-interview-highlights/
Read on Twitter
?s=20


That jumpshot looks funky, but he seems like a very fluid athlete. Not bad for a late pick!
MrMiyagi wrote:Lob to DA for the win
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#259 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 2, 2021 3:38 pm

Really good shooting by Hyland. Limitless range too. Very intriguing prospect.
Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1410958384673738770%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fnba-draft
Image
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,351
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: 2021 Draft 

Post#260 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 2, 2021 3:46 pm

Very interesting!
Read on Twitter
?s=20
Image

Return to Phoenix Suns