Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[Bensational]

YIKES

I talked to a scout who doesn't even have Kuminga rated as a lottery pick, but OKC won't be able to pass on his upside at this stage in the draft. His lack of efficiency is alarming -- he made 39% of his field goals and 25% of his 3-pointers for the G League Ignite this season -- but the athleticism, build and motor are enough to entice the Thunder. Even if they're not in love with him, he could become a valuable trade asset down the line.

That scout needs to be fired asap.

I mean you can say what you want about Kuminga, but even if he never develops a solid 3 pointer he should be more than capable of being a solid NBA rotation player getting regular minutes. The physical tools he brings are just not teachable and highly developed for his age, this guy has the prototype wing body.

Yes, the emperor’s new clothes truly are fantastic, aren’t they?

[basketballRob]

I'm probably a nerd for doing this, but I want to push back on max vertical for a second and the way guys cheat the system to make it appear like they have a better vertical.

So the way max vertical is measured is that you jump as high as you can and touch as high as you can on the marker. Then you subtract your standing reach from whatever you touched on the marker and that number is your max vertical.

The problem is there have been dozens of guys over the years who will shrug their shoulders and not stretch their arms as far as they can on their standing reach. If you intentionally kill your standing reach by 3-5 inches and then jump really high, your max vertical is going to benefit significantly.

Keon Johnson can clearly leap, I'm not saying he's not athletic because he clearly is. But I would be willing to bet any amount of money that he intentionally tanked his standing reach to make his vertical number pop even more.

Keon's standing reach despite being 6'3 1/2 barefoot with a 6'7 1/4 wingspan was just 8'1" inches. That is impossibly low.

To compare...

Tre Mann and Jared Butler who are both shorter then Keon and have MUCH shorter wingspans (6'4") each had a 8'2 1/2" standing reach.

How is it possible that shorter player with shorter arms can reach higher? Keon tanked his standing reach while Mann and Butler didn't.

Just noticed Donovan Mitchell has a 6'10 wingspan and an 8'1" standing reach, which seemed low.

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[basketballRob]

I'm probably a nerd for doing this, but I want to push back on max vertical for a second and the way guys cheat the system to make it appear like they have a better vertical.

So the way max vertical is measured is that you jump as high as you can and touch as high as you can on the marker. Then you subtract your standing reach from whatever you touched on the marker and that number is your max vertical.

The problem is there have been dozens of guys over the years who will shrug their shoulders and not stretch their arms as far as they can on their standing reach. If you intentionally kill your standing reach by 3-5 inches and then jump really high, your max vertical is going to benefit significantly.

Keon Johnson can clearly leap, I'm not saying he's not athletic because he clearly is. But I would be willing to bet any amount of money that he intentionally tanked his standing reach to make his vertical number pop even more.

Keon's standing reach despite being 6'3 1/2 barefoot with a 6'7 1/4 wingspan was just 8'1" inches. That is impossibly low.

To compare...

Tre Mann and Jared Butler who are both shorter then Keon and have MUCH shorter wingspans (6'4") each had a 8'2 1/2" standing reach.

How is it possible that shorter player with shorter arms can reach higher? Keon tanked his standing reach while Mann and Butler didn't.

only thing i can think of, shoulder width. If you have wide shoulders, your reach wont be as high. smaller shoulder span, more of your arms go up.

I know some guys have sloaping shoulders and some have high shoulders. If two guys had same height and wingspan, they could have varying standing reach based the slope of their shoulders. That's probably an advantage for the guy's with sloaping shoulders, because they can contort their bodies when they jump to reach higher.

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[Magic Mops]

Watch on YouTube

They have Barnes at 5 to the Magic

[Magic Mops]

Watch on YouTube

[RookieStar]

Nobody here really talking about Jalen Johnson...His "quits" certainly concern me, but will he be the steal of the draft for somebody in the late lotto? This year's MPJ that leaves everyone going "Damn, how'd we miss that?" in a few years.

Based on skill & measurables & BBIQ only (not factoring his "troubles"), where would he rank?

1st college game he had he dropped almost a 20-20. Dude made a cut and dunked from the (near)FT-line in traffic.

Talent is there no question about talent. He has the skills. Can play outside/inside and has the body to show for it. News is we talked to him in the combine. If we like him, I think we will invite him for a private work out and have psychologists talk to him I guess.

[Def Swami]

Because of the intel emerging from Chicago and other places, we now have new perspectives to share with you on how this draft shapes up.

Looking at this month as a whole, the biggest development is that NBA teams now see a Big 6: Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Kuminga and now Scottie Barnes. For months, NBA teams have been talking about the top five prospects, but, as of the past few weeks, Barnes is seen as a full-fledged member of this group. In fact, some NBA teams have Barnes ranked ahead of Suggs, and most have Barnes ahead of Kuminga.

After those six, the scrum of prospects runs about nine deep, from picks 7 to 15. Different teams have those prospects ranked very differently. We’re here to provide something of a consensus on those nine, to the degree that one exists.

The same goes for the next nine: picks 16 to 24. You tend to hear the same names over and over in that range, but in significantly different orders, depending on which team you’re talking to.

From picks 25 to 45, it’s pretty wide open. This part of the draft is where a number of prospects made headway over the past few weeks, especially at the combine.

04 Scottie Barnes
Florida State
Freshman
Forward
6’8” | 225 lbs | 7’2.75” wingspan
Age: 19.8

Barnes cracking the top 5 of the Big Board seemed highly unlikely six weeks ago. What happened?

The more NBA teams dug into film study and did interviews in Chicago, the more they came away impressed by Barnes’ ability to play four, maybe five positions and his charismatic personality. Barnes is one of the more unique players I’ve scouted because he can be so many things on the floor. That quality has him leapfrogging Jalen Suggs and Jonathan Kuminga on my board.

The lottery didn’t hurt his momentum. Barnes’ combination of size, length, athleticism, playmaking and defensive versatility makes him a strong fit for the Cavs, Raptors and Magic. If he slides past those three teams, it’s unlikely he’ll slip past the Oklahoma City Thunder, who are among the teams with Barnes ranked ahead of Suggs and Kuminga on their boards.

https://www.nbabigboard.com/p/big-board-60-free

There has been so much positive Scottie Barnes buzz and a bit of negative Jonathan Kuminga buzz over the last week in the media.

[tiderulz]

YIKES

That scout needs to be fired asap.

I mean you can say what you want about Kuminga, but even if he never develops a solid 3 pointer he should be more than capable of being a solid NBA rotation player getting regular minutes. The physical tools he brings are just not teachable and highly developed for his age, this guy has the prototype wing body.

a lot of guys have that body that dont pan out. Jarrett Culver, Josh Jackson, Hezonja, Stanley Johnson, Winslow, Ben Mclemore, KCP, MKG. every year there always seems to be a "prototypical wing" that never learns to shoot well in the NBA, but people are enamored with their physical traits.

[OrlMagic05]

I'd be happy with Barnes and Jalen Johnson. I know we would be heavy at the forward position, but Barnes motor is insane and Jalen looks like he could be the steal of the draft if he can keep his head on straight.

PG-Fultz/Cole
SG- Ross/RJ
SF- Barnes/Jalen
PF-Isaac/Okeke
C- Wendell/Bamba

Ekk that team is young though lol

[Magic_Johnny12]

Watch on YouTube

They have Barnes at 5 to the Magic

Its the safe pick unless Suggs falls.

This is more than likely our pick, hate it or love it.

If we get Moody, we will undoubtedly be a top defensive team.

Fultz W/S - 6'9"
Moody - W/S - 7'1"
Barnes - W/S - 7'3"
Isaac - W/S - 7'1"
Bamba - W/S - 7'10"

[Magic_Johnny12]

YIKES

That scout needs to be fired asap.

I mean you can say what you want about Kuminga, but even if he never develops a solid 3 pointer he should be more than capable of being a solid NBA rotation player getting regular minutes. The physical tools he brings are just not teachable and highly developed for his age, this guy has the prototype wing body.

a lot of guys have that body that dont pan out. Jarrett Culver, Josh Jackson, Hezonja, Stanley Johnson, Winslow, Ben Mclemore, KCP, MKG. every year there always seems to be a "prototypical wing" that never learns to shoot well in the NBA, but people are enamored with their physical traits.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kuminga has a low floor and high ceiling. Very risky pick.

[RookieStar]

Because of the intel emerging from Chicago and other places, we now have new perspectives to share with you on how this draft shapes up.

Looking at this month as a whole, the biggest development is that NBA teams now see a Big 6: Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Kuminga and now Scottie Barnes. For months, NBA teams have been talking about the top five prospects, but, as of the past few weeks, Barnes is seen as a full-fledged member of this group. In fact, some NBA teams have Barnes ranked ahead of Suggs, and most have Barnes ahead of Kuminga.

After those six, the scrum of prospects runs about nine deep, from picks 7 to 15. Different teams have those prospects ranked very differently. We’re here to provide something of a consensus on those nine, to the degree that one exists.

The same goes for the next nine: picks 16 to 24. You tend to hear the same names over and over in that range, but in significantly different orders, depending on which team you’re talking to.

From picks 25 to 45, it’s pretty wide open. This part of the draft is where a number of prospects made headway over the past few weeks, especially at the combine.

04 Scottie Barnes
Florida State
Freshman
Forward
6’8” | 225 lbs | 7’2.75” wingspan
Age: 19.8

Barnes cracking the top 5 of the Big Board seemed highly unlikely six weeks ago. What happened?

The more NBA teams dug into film study and did interviews in Chicago, the more they came away impressed by Barnes’ ability to play four, maybe five positions and his charismatic personality. Barnes is one of the more unique players I’ve scouted because he can be so many things on the floor. That quality has him leapfrogging Jalen Suggs and Jonathan Kuminga on my board.

The lottery didn’t hurt his momentum. Barnes’ combination of size, length, athleticism, playmaking and defensive versatility makes him a strong fit for the Cavs, Raptors and Magic. If he slides past those three teams, it’s unlikely he’ll slip past the Oklahoma City Thunder, who are among the teams with Barnes ranked ahead of Suggs and Kuminga on their boards.

https://www.nbabigboard.com/p/big-board-60-free

There has been so much positive Scottie Barnes buzz and a bit of negative Jonathan Kuminga buzz over the last week in the media.

LOL I wonder which team authorized this to be put out in the hopes one of Suggs/Kuminga/Mobley will unexpectedly drop down? In this new era of bball they better hope and believe Barnes has a 3pt shot hidden in that wingspan of his if they think he can be as high as #3

[RookieStar]

That scout needs to be fired asap.

I mean you can say what you want about Kuminga, but even if he never develops a solid 3 pointer he should be more than capable of being a solid NBA rotation player getting regular minutes. The physical tools he brings are just not teachable and highly developed for his age, this guy has the prototype wing body.

a lot of guys have that body that dont pan out. Jarrett Culver, Josh Jackson, Hezonja, Stanley Johnson, Winslow, Ben Mclemore, KCP, MKG. every year there always seems to be a "prototypical wing" that never learns to shoot well in the NBA, but people are enamored with their physical traits.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kuminga has a low floor and high ceiling. Very risky pick.

Very risky pick. Very high rewards though if it works out. We finally get that big SF star we only drool at from other teams like KD LBJ KAwhi and the like.

[KillMonger]

a lot of guys have that body that dont pan out. Jarrett Culver, Josh Jackson, Hezonja, Stanley Johnson, Winslow, Ben Mclemore, KCP, MKG. every year there always seems to be a "prototypical wing" that never learns to shoot well in the NBA, but people are enamored with their physical traits.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kuminga has a low floor and high ceiling. Very risky pick.

Very risky pick. Very high rewards though if it works out. We finally get that big SF star we only drool at from other teams like KD LBJ KAwhi and the like.

i agree, high risk but if it hits then we have a star SF in the same kind of mold of PG/kawhi...etc.....Even if barnes fixes his jumper he still can't create his own shot....I just don't think he has the same ceiling as Kuminga...Either way we would have to be really patient with either as it'll take a while before we see what they can really do....But honestly i'm kind of tired of selecting prospects that are defense first, defense really isn't our problem

[RookieStar]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kuminga has a low floor and high ceiling. Very risky pick.

Very risky pick. Very high rewards though if it works out. We finally get that big SF star we only drool at from other teams like KD LBJ KAwhi and the like.

i agree, high risk but if it hits then we have a star SF in the same kind of mold of PG/kawhi...etc.....Even if barnes fixes his jumper he still can't create his own shot....I just don't think he has the same ceiling as Kuminga...Either way we would have to be really patient with either as it'll take a while before we see what they can really do....But honestly i'm kind of tired of selecting prospects that are defense first, defense really isn't our problem

Same.. one thing those big SFs we drool over has in common is they by themselves can score pretty much if you don't help on them.

[89Magicfan]

Because of the intel emerging from Chicago and other places, we now have new perspectives to share with you on how this draft shapes up.

Looking at this month as a whole, the biggest development is that NBA teams now see a Big 6: Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Kuminga and now Scottie Barnes. For months, NBA teams have been talking about the top five prospects, but, as of the past few weeks, Barnes is seen as a full-fledged member of this group. In fact, some NBA teams have Barnes ranked ahead of Suggs, and most have Barnes ahead of Kuminga.

After those six, the scrum of prospects runs about nine deep, from picks 7 to 15. Different teams have those prospects ranked very differently. We’re here to provide something of a consensus on those nine, to the degree that one exists.

The same goes for the next nine: picks 16 to 24. You tend to hear the same names over and over in that range, but in significantly different orders, depending on which team you’re talking to.

From picks 25 to 45, it’s pretty wide open. This part of the draft is where a number of prospects made headway over the past few weeks, especially at the combine.

04 Scottie Barnes
Florida State
Freshman
Forward
6’8” | 225 lbs | 7’2.75” wingspan
Age: 19.8

Barnes cracking the top 5 of the Big Board seemed highly unlikely six weeks ago. What happened?

The more NBA teams dug into film study and did interviews in Chicago, the more they came away impressed by Barnes’ ability to play four, maybe five positions and his charismatic personality. Barnes is one of the more unique players I’ve scouted because he can be so many things on the floor. That quality has him leapfrogging Jalen Suggs and Jonathan Kuminga on my board.

The lottery didn’t hurt his momentum. Barnes’ combination of size, length, athleticism, playmaking and defensive versatility makes him a strong fit for the Cavs, Raptors and Magic. If he slides past those three teams, it’s unlikely he’ll slip past the Oklahoma City Thunder, who are among the teams with Barnes ranked ahead of Suggs and Kuminga on their boards.

https://www.nbabigboard.com/p/big-board-60-free

There has been so much positive Scottie Barnes buzz and a bit of negative Jonathan Kuminga buzz over the last week in the media.

LOL I wonder which team authorized this to be put out in the hopes one of Suggs/Kuminga/Mobley will unexpectedly drop down? In this new era of bball they better hope and believe Barnes has a 3pt shot hidden in that wingspan of his if they think he can be as high as #3

But how’s Kuminga 3 point shot been?

[RookieStar]

https://www.nbabigboard.com/p/big-board-60-free

There has been so much positive Scottie Barnes buzz and a bit of negative Jonathan Kuminga buzz over the last week in the media.

LOL I wonder which team authorized this to be put out in the hopes one of Suggs/Kuminga/Mobley will unexpectedly drop down? In this new era of bball they better hope and believe Barnes has a 3pt shot hidden in that wingspan of his if they think he can be as high as #3

But how’s Kuminga 3 point shot been?

If you based it on eye-test in 13 games in the GL ( because honestly, what else do we have to go on ) then the guy is a willing chuck... errr shooter and better form in game time settings than Barnes?

You can probably dispute the numbers in terms of success, but im just a fan watching the game so eye-test is all I have and want to go on with.

[89Magicfan]

LOL I wonder which team authorized this to be put out in the hopes one of Suggs/Kuminga/Mobley will unexpectedly drop down? In this new era of bball they better hope and believe Barnes has a 3pt shot hidden in that wingspan of his if they think he can be as high as #3

But how’s Kuminga 3 point shot been?

If you based it on eye-test in 13 games in the GL ( because honestly, what else do we have to go on ) then the guy is a willing chuck... errr shooter and better form in game time settings than Barnes?

You can probably dispute the numbers in terms of success, but im just a fan watching the game so eye-test is all I have and want to go on with.

I can name quite a few players who have perfect forms and can’t shoot. Can name quite a few who have a unorthodox maybe even ugly shot that can shoot a decent percentage.

For me, take away his athleticism what is he? Take away Barnes and he still has the feel, the handles, the court vision, and the commitment to defense.

[basketballRob]

I really think they'll take Kuminga, because he's shown glimpses of being a number one scorer.

I hope we get Keon with the 8th pick. He shot better as the season went on, his splits in conference was 49/31/73. He averaged around 16-17 ppg in his last 11 games of the season, against top schools. He was the best defender on a top 5 defensive team. He played all but the final 3 games at 18 years old.


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[RookieStar]

But how’s Kuminga 3 point shot been?

If you based it on eye-test in 13 games in the GL ( because honestly, what else do we have to go on ) then the guy is a willing chuck... errr shooter and better form in game time settings than Barnes?

You can probably dispute the numbers in terms of success, but im just a fan watching the game so eye-test is all I have and want to go on with.

I can name quite a few players who have perfect forms and can’t shoot. Can name quite a few who have a unorthodox maybe even ugly shot that can shoot a decent percentage.

For me, take away his athleticism what is he? Take away Barnes and he still has the feel, the handles, the court vision, and the commitment to defense.

Didn't we have this conversation before? Well to answer that AGAIN, he has all that from Barnes except handles/court vision. You replace that with his "motor" and drive/attacking the hoop with his offensive mindset.