Winning a Wiggins Trade

[Impuniti]

Wig is basically Barnes with better defense. Just need the other pieces to bring the 15 Warriors back.

[Scoots1994]

Wig is basically Barnes with better defense. Just need the other pieces to bring the 15 Warriors back.

Wiggins is WAY WAY WAY better at initiating offense, and is significantly better on wing defense. Barnes is better at post defense, rebounding, and shooting ... but the differences in his favor are small.

[and1GS]

I'm glad folks here see Wiggins more as a piece to build with rather than an albatross to get off of. I loved what I saw from him this season...with the understanding that the only way to get a star is to trade him. It's tough, because it's not like we're trading Chandler Parsons. We'd be shipping off a good player basically just as salary ballast - which is why the star we'd receive has to be great and not a Zach LaVine type (nobody suggested him, but just as an example of a tier 2 star).

[Scoots1994]

I'm glad folks here see Wiggins more as a piece to build with rather than an albatross to get off of. I loved what I saw from him this season...with the understanding that the only way to get a star is to trade him. It's tough, because it's not like we're trading Chandler Parsons. We'd be shipping off a good player basically just as salary ballast - which is why the star we'd receive has to be great and not a Zach LaVine type (nobody suggested him, but just as an example of a tier 2 star).

He's still overpaid, but considering that Myers turned KD leaving for nothing and no cap space at all into Wiggins and a #7 pick is really wizardry.

[cpower]

Wiggins is not a piece to build around, he is a decent wing on a crazy contract....
if you look at how wings are getting paid in this league, with his salary you can have Batum/Crowder/Barton all three!

[and1GS]

Build around and build with are two very different terms. As the 4th option on a title contender, yes you can build with that. As the second option on a play-in team? No you shouldn't build around that.

[Impuniti]

I'm glad folks here see Wiggins more as a piece to build with rather than an albatross to get off of. I loved what I saw from him this season...with the understanding that the only way to get a star is to trade him. It's tough, because it's not like we're trading Chandler Parsons. We'd be shipping off a good player basically just as salary ballast - which is why the star we'd receive has to be great and not a Zach LaVine type (nobody suggested him, but just as an example of a tier 2 star).

He's still overpaid, but considering that Myers turned KD leaving for nothing and no cap space at all into Wiggins and a #7 pick is really wizardry.

Does @clyde21 have any comments to this?

[Impuniti]

Wiggins is not a piece to build around, he is a decent wing on a crazy contract....
if you look at how wings are getting paid in this league, with his salary you can have Batum/Crowder/Barton all three!

This isn't reality. You are picking the best value for your money and saying you can get that. No, you can't, and that's why those guys are on different teams.

[Onus]

Why does Wiggins always work out against scrubs?

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ChrisJohnsonHoops

[Crazy-Canuck]

Why does Wiggins always work out against scrubs?

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ChrisJohnsonHoops

He worked out with simmons and booker last year.

[vagelis]

Wiggins without Oubre played significant better

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/andrew-wiggins-stats-with-and-without-kelly-oubre-2021

Wiggins without Oubre in 16 games
21.3 ppg, 51.7 fg%, 40.7 3p%, 82.4 ft%, 16.9 fga

Wiggins when Oubre played
17.8 ppg, 46.4 fg%, 37.3 3p%, 69.6 fta, 14.3 fga

So, he became more productive and more efficient when he got a bigger role in offense, something that does not surprise me.
He is the type of player who the more he is being asked to do the better he plays.
Siakam for example is the opposite the more he is being asked to do the worse he plays.

[floppymoose]

I thought at first that site was showing minutes played with/without someone. But it isn't. It's at the game level. It only counts as playing without someone if that someone was out the whole game. So I'm not sure how to really make use of that stat well. I'd rather look at possession-based on/off data.

[FNQ]

Wiggins without Oubre played significant better

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/andrew-wiggins-stats-with-and-without-kelly-oubre-2021

Wiggins without Oubre in 16 games
21.3 ppg, 51.7 fg%, 40.7 3p%, 82.4 ft%, 16.9 fga

Wiggins when Oubre played
17.8 ppg, 46.4 fg%, 37.3 3p%, 69.6 fta, 14.3 fga

So, he became more productive and more efficient when he got a bigger role in offense, something that does not surprised me.
He is the type of player who the more he is being asked to do the better he plays.
Siakam for example is the opposite the more he is being asked to do the worse he plays.

he was asked to do more in Minnesota and was a disaster, so I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion

Wiggins / Oubre combo was a net -5.6, which was Wiggins' 2nd worst pairing next to the historically bad Wiggins / Wiseman (-16.1). Looks to me more that Wiggins didn't mesh well with a below average outside shooter and chaotic defender. Aside from Curry, Wiggins seemed to pair poorly with other bad team defenders (Wiseman, Oubre, Poole, Lee).

[vagelis]

I thought at first that site was showing minutes played with/without someone. But it isn't. It's at the game level. It only counts as playing without someone if that someone was out the whole game. So I'm not sure how to really make use of that stat well. I'd rather look at possession-based on/off data.

Yes, game level. In my opinion it is a useful stat to see how a player performs in the games his role changes a bit

[vagelis]

Wiggins without Oubre played significant better

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/andrew-wiggins-stats-with-and-without-kelly-oubre-2021

Wiggins without Oubre in 16 games
21.3 ppg, 51.7 fg%, 40.7 3p%, 82.4 ft%, 16.9 fga

Wiggins when Oubre played
17.8 ppg, 46.4 fg%, 37.3 3p%, 69.6 fta, 14.3 fga

So, he became more productive and more efficient when he got a bigger role in offense, something that does not surprise me.
He is the type of player who the more he is being asked to do the better he plays.
Siakam for example is the opposite the more he is being asked to do the worse he plays.

he was asked to do more in Minnesota and was a disaster, so I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion

Wiggins / Oubre combo was a net -5.6, which was Wiggins' 2nd worst pairing next to the historically bad Wiggins / Wiseman (-16.1). Looks to me more that Wiggins didn't mesh well with a below average outside shooter and chaotic defender. Aside from Curry, Wiggins seemed to pair poorly with other bad team defenders (Wiseman, Oubre, Poole, Lee).

The most important difference is the 2.5 fga more that Wiggins had without Oubre.
That means that he had more touches too, something that is not shown in this comparison.

As for that Wiggins was a disaster with a bigger role in Minnesota, that is not true. He was very good in his last season with the Wolves when the ball went more to him.
Before that season, Thibodeau had him for 2 seasons standing at the corner.

It is the fans that tell all these things about Wiggins that have nothing to do with the reality.

For example, this week Greece played against Canada for the Olympic qualifiers.
Before I started to watch the game, I opened the Raptors forum and they were saying that Wiggins is the worst player they have ever seen.
So, I thought he maybe was playing a very bad game.
I then watched the game and realized that he was by far the best player on the floor.
23pts, taking the big shots.
From then, Raptors fans just don't write anything about him. There were countless pages before the game for how bad Wiggins is. About how Dort is a much better player than him and he should be benched. After 2 games that Wiggins was the best player on the floor nobody talks. They wait his next bad game or shot.

Wiggins has many reasons to be hated.
Lebron James traded him, so his stans have to prove that he made the right decision to trade the next big thing at the time the trade took place.

Minnesota fans didn't like the fact that their team traded their best player, Love. They don't like the fact that their team loses all these years. Wiggins was the scapegoat of a bad team

Canadians never forgive him the fact that he rejected the national team for 5 years.

[FNQ]

I'm not going based off what fans say. I'm going based off the numbers, and I dont think its possible to spin them as "good" in his last year in MIN.. a 53.5% TS is well below average, and when its tied to such a high 3ptA% (35%), thats really not good. Admittedly its better than he was, but it also resulted in the team going from an above average offense to a bottom 6 offense.

So I could even draw the conclusion that as Wiggins personal stats get better, the team stats get worse

[vagelis]

I'm not going based off what fans say. I'm going based off the numbers, and I dont think its possible to spin them as "good" in his last year in MIN.. a 53.5% TS is well below average, and when its tied to such a high 3ptA% (35%), thats really not good. Admittedly its better than he was, but it also resulted in the team going from an above average offense to a bottom 6 offense.

So I could even draw the conclusion that as Wiggins personal stats get better, the team stats get worse

When you compare the team offense of 2 different seasons you maybe have to take in to account the rest of the roster, not only the role of a single player.
The lineup of the Wolves the last year of Wiggins with the Wolves had Mclaughlin, Okogie or Culver and Layman.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2020.html

How good the offense could have been with that roster?
The previous years the roster was better
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2019.html

[Scoots1994]

Wiggins without Oubre played significant better

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/andrew-wiggins-stats-with-and-without-kelly-oubre-2021

Wiggins without Oubre in 16 games
21.3 ppg, 51.7 fg%, 40.7 3p%, 82.4 ft%, 16.9 fga

Wiggins when Oubre played
17.8 ppg, 46.4 fg%, 37.3 3p%, 69.6 fta, 14.3 fga

So, he became more productive and more efficient when he got a bigger role in offense, something that does not surprise me.
He is the type of player who the more he is being asked to do the better he plays.
Siakam for example is the opposite the more he is being asked to do the worse he plays.

That's a good observation.

[Scoots1994]

I'm not going based off what fans say. I'm going based off the numbers, and I dont think its possible to spin them as "good" in his last year in MIN.. a 53.5% TS is well below average, and when its tied to such a high 3ptA% (35%), thats really not good. Admittedly its better than he was, but it also resulted in the team going from an above average offense to a bottom 6 offense.

So I could even draw the conclusion that as Wiggins personal stats get better, the team stats get worse

I think, as with all players, there is a sweet spot. Jordan's teams didn't start winning until his personal stats went down.

It's about how the team is constructed and how the player is used.

Wiggins, not needing to be #1, is better when he gets more touches it seems.

[Mylie10]

Wiggins is not a piece to build around, he is a decent wing on a crazy contract....
if you look at how wings are getting paid in this league, with his salary you can have Batum/Crowder/Barton all three!

Great post Power!

I like the improvements Wiggins made this season, but the contract is crazy. Which we all knew coming in, but he at least improved and played every game this season.

However……he did NOT step up when we really needed it. He had a few nice games, but nothing you could hang your hat on game in and game out that lifted the team to victory.

I get he likes his third or fourth option role, but when dudes are out of the lineup, he’s got to get aggressive and we still saw him kind of float into and out of his 16-18 points and I never felt the energy from him to take over or carry us to a win.

But he did score decently in fourth quarters, so maybe I’m being to harsh. But still, the dude needs to step up more at times. Not asking him to carry us for a season.