Alperen Şengün

[God Squad]

Your slippery and unquantifiable definition of "length" is totally useless here. If Sengun's supposed lack of length doesn't affect his ability to finish above the rim, rebound, and block shots, then how does it even matter?

Most rim protection is done with the defender on the ground or jumping from a standstill not the same thing as loading up for a dunk. Standing reach is what really matters near the basket.

...so his blocks don't count if he had to jump? You're not making any sense here.

Virtually everyone recognizes that he's much more effective defensively around the basket than he is on the perimeter. Virtually everyone recognizes that he's better at defending bigger, slower players rather than smaller, quicker players. Reasonable minds can disagree on exactly how good he is defensively in the paint, or how bad he is defensively on the perimeter, but it's clear that the more he's in the paint, the more he's in position to succeed on that end of the court. Why anyone would intentionally try to make him a PF, which at the NBA level means a lot of switching and chasing shooters around the 3-point line, is beyond me.

You're either too invested into Sengun and not reading/understanding correctly. EvanZ trying to say most Centers don't get a running start when defending the paint or blocking shots. It's all, or mostly jumping/standing straight up. So I can see why standing reach is important. I also have concerns with him defending the PnR as his perimeter defense looks shaky. I still think he's a 6-12 range guy with a high ceiling. I just think all the defensive concerns are valid and his fans are glossing over it. But his detractors are ignoring all or most of the things he does at an elite level.

[Yallbecrazy]

Not a huge fan of Cs that have to play drop coverage on the pick & roll. You can get away with it in the regular season but it the playoffs, a Cs lack of mobility will get exposed.

Of course this begs the obvious question of whether you'd consider Nikola Jokic an undraftable player for this reason or whether there might be some value in drafting a player in the mid/late lottery who would have a huge impact in the regular season.

How many Nikola Jokic's out there? How many Cs in the league are that skilled? Please don't try to suggest Sengun has this type of skill. And will you address Jokic's defense in playoffs?

Sengun is more skilled than Jokic was at the same age, albeit not quite the passer Jokic was.

[Charm]

Most rim protection is done with the defender on the ground or jumping from a standstill not the same thing as loading up for a dunk. Standing reach is what really matters near the basket.

...so his blocks don't count if he had to jump? You're not making any sense here.

Virtually everyone recognizes that he's much more effective defensively around the basket than he is on the perimeter. Virtually everyone recognizes that he's better at defending bigger, slower players rather than smaller, quicker players. Reasonable minds can disagree on exactly how good he is defensively in the paint, or how bad he is defensively on the perimeter, but it's clear that the more he's in the paint, the more he's in position to succeed on that end of the court. Why anyone would intentionally try to make him a PF, which at the NBA level means a lot of switching and chasing shooters around the 3-point line, is beyond me.

You're either too invested into Sengun and not reading/understanding correctly. EvanZ trying to say most Centers don't get a running start when defending the paint or blocking shots. It's all, or mostly jumping/standing straight up. So I can see why standing reach is important. I also have concerns with him defending the PnR as his perimeter defense looks shaky. I still think he's a 6-12 range guy with a high ceiling. I just think all the defensive concerns are valid and his fans are glossing over it. But his detractors are ignoring all or most of the things he does at an elite level.

I mean, I'll meet you half way. Some of the defensive concerns are valid. This is possibly the first time I've heard the argument that a big's shot blocking won't translate because he's using too much athleticism to get his blocks. There are loads of 7' centers in Turkey, and Sengun blocked more shots than every single one of them, but because his standing reach is (hypothetically!) subpar, I'm supposed to believe this is a mirage?

The concerns about his perimeter defense? Sure, I'm happy to admit that that's a weakness for him at the moment. But suggesting that he's going to be so bad defensively in the paint that he can't even play center is crazy. I don't think any center prospect who was a similarly prolific rebounder/shot blocker faced questions about whether he'd be able to play the position at the next level, especially in recent years when sub-7' centers have become commonplace.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Most rim protection is done with the defender on the ground or jumping from a standstill not the same thing as loading up for a dunk. Standing reach is what really matters near the basket.

...so his blocks don't count if he had to jump? You're not making any sense here.

Virtually everyone recognizes that he's much more effective defensively around the basket than he is on the perimeter. Virtually everyone recognizes that he's better at defending bigger, slower players rather than smaller, quicker players. Reasonable minds can disagree on exactly how good he is defensively in the paint, or how bad he is defensively on the perimeter, but it's clear that the more he's in the paint, the more he's in position to succeed on that end of the court. Why anyone would intentionally try to make him a PF, which at the NBA level means a lot of switching and chasing shooters around the 3-point line, is beyond me.

You're either too invested into Sengun and not reading/understanding correctly. EvanZ trying to say most Centers don't get a running start when defending the paint or blocking shots. It's all, or mostly jumping/standing straight up. So I can see why standing reach is important. I also have concerns with him defending the PnR as his perimeter defense looks shaky. I still think he's a 6-12 range guy with a high ceiling. I just think all the defensive concerns are valid and his fans are glossing over it. But his detractors are ignoring all or most of the things he does at an elite level.

Defensive concerns are valid but those concerns should be more about his lateral quickness than his rim protection is what we are saying. Whatever his standing reach/athleticism is, he led the league in total blocks and was second in blocks per game as an 18 year old. That has gotta count for something.. Chalk it up to his anticipation, reach, athleticism, or whatever you chose, he is clearly doing something right to block those shots. Whatever you are saying about defending in the paint and blocking without getting a running start is also true for the Turkish Basketball League he played in. Blocking shots require more than just length/athleticism, you need to have timing/anticipation as well. Throwing out Blake Griffin's name is useless because he wasn't even a good shot blocker in college (1.2 bpg in 33 mpg at his best college season). He clearly lacked the defensive awareness to block shots at a decent rate in college and in NBA.

Alperen lacks some length and might be only decent athletically, however his anticipation and timing seem to be off the charts (also can be evidenced by his unusually high steal rate). I mean PJ Washington is averaging 1.2 bpg in 30 mpg and he is neither long (8' 11'' standing reach) nor a big-time athlete. (and played 46% of his minutes at center last season btw)

[EvanZ]

Sengun averaged 1.6 blk in 28 minutes in Turkey. Kevin Love averaged 1.4 blk in 30 mpg at UCLA. Anthony Davis averaged 4.7 blk in 32 mpg his Freshman season at Kentucky.

I think people should focus way more on Sengun's assists and free throw %. Those are much more special than his STOCKs.

[kobyz]

a smaller Karl-Anthony Towns

[nolang1]

Not a huge fan of Cs that have to play drop coverage on the pick & roll. You can get away with it in the regular season but it the playoffs, a Cs lack of mobility will get exposed.

Of course this begs the obvious question of whether you'd consider Nikola Jokic an undraftable player for this reason or whether there might be some value in drafting a player in the mid/late lottery who would have a huge impact in the regular season.

How many Nikola Jokic's out there? How many Cs in the league are that skilled? Please don't try to suggest Sengun has this type of skill. And will you address Jokic's defense in playoffs?

It's a good sign you made an extremely stupid point that you're immediately backpedaling to this. I was already granting your dumb argument that Nikola Jokic is worthless in the playoffs because of his defense (lol) to say that at some point in the draft getting a player who could at least be good in the regular season is better than getting a player who isn't good at all.

[Dat2U]

Of course this begs the obvious question of whether you'd consider Nikola Jokic an undraftable player for this reason or whether there might be some value in drafting a player in the mid/late lottery who would have a huge impact in the regular season.

How many Nikola Jokic's out there? How many Cs in the league are that skilled? Please don't try to suggest Sengun has this type of skill. And will you address Jokic's defense in playoffs?

It's a good sign you made an extremely stupid point that you're immediately backpedaling to this. I was already granting your dumb argument that Nikola Jokic is worthless in the playoffs because of his defense (lol) to say that at some point in the draft getting a player who could at least be good in the regular season is better than getting a player who isn't good at all.

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said Jokic was worthless in the playoffs, but his impact is muted somewhat by his defensive shortcomings. Your the one comparing an 18 yr old against far inferior comp to one of the greatest offensive bigs of all time. Calm down son! Sengun has nothing approaching that level of skill so its laughable you bought up Jokic in the first place.

Only reason you bought up Jokic is because you couldn't make an argument for Sengun.

[D J C]

Sengun averaged 1.6 blk in 28 minutes in Turkey. Kevin Love averaged 1.4 blk in 30 mpg at UCLA. Anthony Davis averaged 4.7 blk in 32 mpg his Freshman season at Kentucky.

I think people should focus way more on Sengun's assists and free throw %. Those are much more special than his STOCKs.

Ayton averaged 3 STOCKs per 40.. Sabonis 1.9 per 40.. Vucevic 2.2 per 40.. Bam 2.9 per 40.. Jarrett Allen 2.6 per 40.. Capela 3.9 per 36.. Marc Gasol 3.4 per 36

Sengun averaged 3.8 STOCKs per 36

I think it is important to bring up when people are still trying to compare him to Tyler f'ing Hansbrough. We know he wont be a Capela or Ayton type of defender, but the numbers do stack up well and show promise to his defensive awareness and ability.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Sengun averaged 1.6 blk in 28 minutes in Turkey. Kevin Love averaged 1.4 blk in 30 mpg at UCLA. Anthony Davis averaged 4.7 blk in 32 mpg his Freshman season at Kentucky.

I think people should focus way more on Sengun's assists and free throw %. Those are much more special than his STOCKs.

1.4 bpg is pretty pedestrian in NCAA as a shot-blocker, 1.6 bpg in TBL is not. One of them was like the 100th best shot blocker in college, the other one was the 2nd best shot-blocker in a professional league playing against grown men, most of whom were stars in college.

I think people should focus more on lateral quickness than rim protection if they are concerned about the defensive side. You can partially solve the rim protection problem (if even there is one) by playing a rim protector next to him. Lateral quickness, you cannot solve or hide especially in playoffs. Good teams hunt you down mercilessly on pick&rolls and play you off the floor.

[EvanZ]

Good teams hunt you down mercilessly on pick&rolls and play you off the floor.

Whether Sengun is a 4 or a 5 this will be the case.

[Charm]

Anecdotal, but worth noting that a 19-year-old Ayton got run off the floor by Buffalo in the first round of the NCAA playoffs. His defensive fundamentals at the time were almost nonexistent on the perimeter. A few years later he's a 40mpg starter going into the NBA finals.

[nolang1]

How many Nikola Jokic's out there? How many Cs in the league are that skilled? Please don't try to suggest Sengun has this type of skill. And will you address Jokic's defense in playoffs?

It's a good sign you made an extremely stupid point that you're immediately backpedaling to this. I was already granting your dumb argument that Nikola Jokic is worthless in the playoffs because of his defense (lol) to say that at some point in the draft getting a player who could at least be good in the regular season is better than getting a player who isn't good at all.

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said Jokic was worthless in the playoffs, but his impact is muted somewhat by his defensive shortcomings. Your the one comparing an 18 yr old against far inferior comp to one of the greatest offensive bigs of all time. Calm down son! Sengun has nothing approaching that level of skill so its laughable you bought up Jokic in the first place.

Only reason you bought up Jokic is because you couldn't make an argument for Sengun.

Not gonna continue arguing with someone who can't pass the your/you're test. Just look up Jokic's stats from age 18 (he wasn't playing in the NBA then either) and you'll see it is indeed comparable at the same point where Jokic shot more threes and had a slightly higher assist rate but Sengun has the edge everywhere else.

[EvanZ]

Anecdotal, but worth noting that a 19-year-old Ayton got run off the floor by Buffalo in the first round of the NCAA playoffs. His defensive fundamentals at the time were almost nonexistent on the perimeter. A few years later he's a 40mpg starter going into the NBA finals.

Yes, I see this same argument now for why Wiseman is going to be DPOY someday.

[EvanZ]

Sengun averaged 1.6 blk in 28 minutes in Turkey. Kevin Love averaged 1.4 blk in 30 mpg at UCLA. Anthony Davis averaged 4.7 blk in 32 mpg his Freshman season at Kentucky.

I think people should focus way more on Sengun's assists and free throw %. Those are much more special than his STOCKs.

Ayton averaged 3 STOCKs per 40.. Sabonis 1.9 per 40.. Vucevic 2.2 per 40.. Bam 2.9 per 40.. Jarrett Allen 2.6 per 40.. Capela 3.9 per 36.. Marc Gasol 3.4 per 36

Sengun averaged 3.8 STOCKs per 36

I have him ranked higher than all those guys coming out. But I don't have him higher than an Anthony Davis, which is what it sounds like some folks in here want to do.

Charm literally has him #1 on his board.

[Charm]

Sengun averaged 1.6 blk in 28 minutes in Turkey. Kevin Love averaged 1.4 blk in 30 mpg at UCLA. Anthony Davis averaged 4.7 blk in 32 mpg his Freshman season at Kentucky.

I think people should focus way more on Sengun's assists and free throw %. Those are much more special than his STOCKs.

Ayton averaged 3 STOCKs per 40.. Sabonis 1.9 per 40.. Vucevic 2.2 per 40.. Bam 2.9 per 40.. Jarrett Allen 2.6 per 40.. Capela 3.9 per 36.. Marc Gasol 3.4 per 36

Sengun averaged 3.8 STOCKs per 36

I have him ranked higher than all those guys coming out. But I don't have him higher than an Anthony Davis, which is what it sounds like some folks in here want to do.

Charm literally has him #1 on his board.

Don’t know why he has to be a better prospect than AD to be #1 in this draft. AD would be the #1 pick by a country mile this year.

[Brick Layer]

Sengun averaged 1.6 blk in 28 minutes in Turkey. Kevin Love averaged 1.4 blk in 30 mpg at UCLA. Anthony Davis averaged 4.7 blk in 32 mpg his Freshman season at Kentucky.

I think people should focus way more on Sengun's assists and free throw %. Those are much more special than his STOCKs.

Ayton averaged 3 STOCKs per 40.. Sabonis 1.9 per 40.. Vucevic 2.2 per 40.. Bam 2.9 per 40.. Jarrett Allen 2.6 per 40.. Capela 3.9 per 36.. Marc Gasol 3.4 per 36

Sengun averaged 3.8 STOCKs per 36

I have him ranked higher than all those guys coming out. But I don't have him higher than an Anthony Davis, which is what it sounds like some folks in here want to do.

Charm literally has him #1 on his board.

Charm sounds and acts like he is related to Alperen Sengun or he is his agent.

[Charm]

I'm just a numbers guy...Sengun probably has a bigger gulf between his statistical production (for an 18-year-old) and his consensus draft position than any previous prospect I've scouted. So I made an account on here to see what people are saying.

[Dat2U]

It's a good sign you made an extremely stupid point that you're immediately backpedaling to this. I was already granting your dumb argument that Nikola Jokic is worthless in the playoffs because of his defense (lol) to say that at some point in the draft getting a player who could at least be good in the regular season is better than getting a player who isn't good at all.

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said Jokic was worthless in the playoffs, but his impact is muted somewhat by his defensive shortcomings. Your the one comparing an 18 yr old against far inferior comp to one of the greatest offensive bigs of all time. Calm down son! Sengun has nothing approaching that level of skill so its laughable you bought up Jokic in the first place.

Only reason you bought up Jokic is because you couldn't make an argument for Sengun.

Not gonna continue arguing with someone who can't pass the your/you're test. Just look up Jokic's stats from age 18 (he wasn't playing in the NBA then either) and you'll see it is indeed comparable at the same point where Jokic shot more threes and had a slightly higher assist rate but Sengun has the edge everywhere else.

So you assume every prospect has similar development curve as Jokic?

I'm naturally impressed when a kid that young is incredibly productive but where does an undersized low post C that can't defend the perimeter fit in today's game? I don’t doubt the great hands, radar like tracking on the boards and touch around the rim but the C position has an outsized impact on the defensive end so what a C can do on that end means alot.

[Stillwater]

Still seems to be getting slept on. I wonder if it will be reflected in the actual draft. I think he is clearly a lottery level prospect not sure he goes there though if the general consensus is even close

it is certain he will be drafted in the lottery.

A follower of INTL the prospects I assume you are...most are maybe not as much since the consensus is counter to this opinion. I agree as I stated he is a lottery level prospect but so was Poku in a weaker draft and still was not taken in the top 14. I think a lot of these orgs aare so busy patting the backs of their connections in USA circles they rarely take the risk on intl prospects unless they are insane cant miss ones.