Josh Giddey - 6'8 Aussie PG

[tiderulz]

Is it more likely that the NBA, with by far the best talent in the world, has the worst defense? Or is it more likely that the offensive talent is so good that it makes the defense look worse by comparison?

The NBL doesn’t have guys like Lillard or Curry regularly pulling up from 40 feet out on high efficiency. The NBL doesn’t have Giannis or Zion-type unstoppable forces. Or freakish 7 foot ballhandlers and scorers in the vein of KD.

I can assure you that if the best NBA teams went up against an NBL team they would make them look like D1 college teams on offense.

look at the scoring leaders in the AZ league. They couldnt make rosters in the NBA. Bryce Cotton, Nathan Sobey, Tyler Harvey. they couldnt make an NBA roster, even end of the bench role. yet are the 1-2-3 scoring leaders there. I'm sorry, but im not impressed by that league and wont admit they have better defense than the NBA

[yoyoboy]

Anyone that doesn't realize the NBA has horrific level defense either doesn't actually watch the NBA, and/or they have never seen any other basketball competition other than the NBA.

If you actually have watched another basketball competition besides the NBA, and don't realize the NBA has the worst defense by far, then you don't understand basic rudimentary principles of basketball. What is considered acceptable or even standard level defense by NBA coaches would get a player automatically benched in Europe.

You’re just extremely biased, dude. So are you saying an NBL team would have done a better job defensively against the Lakers than the Suns did in the first round?

[GimmeDat]

You know NBL teams have actually gone up against NBA teams in pre-season? Been happening for the last few years. Obviously there's the preseason caveat, and star players didn't always play, but if you want to talk about that theoretical, might as well go observe the reality of that match-up.

If you want to make comparisons, the best thing to do is observe other guys that have gone from the NBL to the NBA. Of course, the NBA is on a whole other level, you can say that about any league in the world. But with all that acknowledged, there's still a lot of ignorant comments that get made about international basketball leagues in general from US observers.

Torrey Craig came off the bench for an NBL team - he's now on an NBA Finals roster. Cam Oliver was playing well, but was not the best big in the NBL by a fair margin this season, yet went to Houston on a 10 day and looked excellent, probably locking up a roster spot somewhere for next season. Obviously LaMelo put up empty, inefficient stats losing games, then went to the NBA and blew up. Didi Louzada was pretty disappointing this season for Sydney (39% FG, 8.8ppg) but still got called over. Many more examples that you can point to.

The reality is the game's a bit different - those guys are all suited to the NBA game and flourished as a result once they went over. Conversely, we know small guard's have an incredibly high threshold to success in the NBA, and thus guys like Bryce Cotton become superstars here because they'd be extremely hard to hide defensively and aren't NBA level stars where you can running the offense through certain guys and maximizing their skill-sets at the NBA level.

Now obviously Giddey doesn't have the athleticism to really explode in that sense at the NBA level, but he does mirror Ball in the sense that he would be able to take advantage of NBA spacing in the half-court to make plays for himself and others.

Now, is NBA defense worse than international defense? I would say no, haha. That mainly comes down to the difference in average physical tools. But the NBL is a very physical league, you can on average get away with more I'd say in that sense, and I believe Doncic has made similar comments about Euroleague. There's also, as noted, less spacing, so that makes it harder to score too.

As for him missing out on the Olympic team, not really concerned. I heard he had a good camp with them. We have an NBA guard rotation basically - Dellevadova wasn't going to miss selection because it's his last go-around as part of the old core. Mills is a FIBA superstar. Exum plays a similar role as a big guard but gives us more of a defensive stopper. The last spot was between Sobey and Giddey, and Sobey is coming off the best season of his career, and brought that form into camp (gotta ride with in form guys going into a quick event like the Olympics). Giddey was amazing in the NBL as an 18 year old, but Sobey was an NBL MVP candidate, Giddey was not. We also need to maximize our shooting given we have Thybulle and Josh Green on the wing, and less shooting in our front-court than seasons past.

Happy to accept a variety of opinions of Giddey so long as you watched the games. I'm hoping he'll succeed given my nationality, but I'm not going to put the rose coloroured glasses on. I'm pretty high on him (somewhere in that 5-10 range), but I'd be the first to admit he's an unorthodox prospect that's not easy to project to the NBA level.

[DCasey91]

I see Grievis Vasquez as the comp for Giddey.

Lamelo is a no and certainly not Luka.

He has put on size since the start of the year and has gotten more comfortable as the season went on.

Shot
Size
Handle
Defense

Big things to work on and like all prospects it’s uncommon that all of them or even some of them hit.

But I can see Giddey running second units to aplomb as a backup PG. That’s certainly a realistic floor for him.

His passing though is class one of the best easily in this class.

I mean a 6”8” class passing PG is still that, any which way you put it.

[bondom34]

Just saw the convo, and this was a recent article from an SB Nation site (the author used to post here as well), but from what I can tell was an idea of how well prospects project to the NBA relative to other leagues/NCAA.

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2021/7/4/22562365/quantifying-quality-international-basketball-league-quality-spain-australia-turkey

NBL was pretty close to championship level NCAA. And doesn't take into account any other things with a player's game/style of play in terms of projections.

[Bensational]

In regards to his defense, I’ll say this much - have any recent Aussies that have made the NBA jump been known as slouches on defense? Not that I can think of. They may not all be Simmons/Thybulle All-Defense worthy, but Ingles, Delly, Mills and even Exum have all shown that they’ve got the dog in them on defense and will get after it.

With the right coaching and matchup management, Giddey will be fine on defense. He absolutely shouldn’t be expected to guard lightning quick PGs, but he will be able to handle SFs just fine. The kid will bang for boards even with his strength development being in its infancy, and he’ll only get better.

Shooting wise, I don’t see any reason he can’t develop a reliable technique. What I think might hold him back is if he falls too much into defining himself as a passing wizard, since that will be his early go-to strength, and then fails to develop a strong enough scoring mentality. Simmons and Elfrid Payton are prime examples of that affect.

Comp wise, I think he’s going to be Hedo Turkoglu-ish when it’s all said and done. Better passing and less shooting, unless he really works on that. Turkoglu was the Magic’s real 2nd star alongside Dwight that one finals run year. Would’ve been better as a 3rd star, and if Giddey is lucky he could end up like that.

I’m unabashedly bullish on Giddey. Giddey up, y’all!

[DCasey91]

Just saw the convo, and this was a recent article from an SB Nation site (the author used to post here as well), but from what I can tell was an idea of how well prospects project to the NBA relative to other leagues/NCAA.

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2021/7/4/22562365/quantifying-quality-international-basketball-league-quality-spain-australia-turkey

NBL was pretty close to championship level NCAA. And doesn't take into account any other things with a player's game/style of play in terms of projections.

On quality and skill sure I’ll buy that.

But then the smaller court, more psychical and grown men with experience it’s a big difference to a younger player.

Hedo is a fair sized bigger then Giddey will ever be my man. Like chunky strong is the word to describe him. Also Giddey most likely won’t be the shooter or scorer prime Hedo was. Dude was a baller for the Magic.

Check up on Vasquez, that’s more in line with Giddey’s body and skillset archetype.

[Nuntius]

The level of competition that Giddey has faced is definitely not what worries me. The NBL is a fine league. What worries me is the rest of his offensive game. Yeah, his passing is excellent and I expect it to translate but what else can he do? Can he handle the ball well enough to be a primary shot-creator? Can he be enough of a scoring threat so an NBA team can justify having him be their primary shot-creator? We all expect him to have a lot of issues defensively (he'll probably need to be hidden on some non-scoring wings or PFs as the chances of him successfully defending NBA PGs are slim) but will his offense be good enough to balance that out?

That's what worries me and why I'm ultimately not high on him.

[bondom34]

Just saw the convo, and this was a recent article from an SB Nation site (the author used to post here as well), but from what I can tell was an idea of how well prospects project to the NBA relative to other leagues/NCAA.

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2021/7/4/22562365/quantifying-quality-international-basketball-league-quality-spain-australia-turkey

NBL was pretty close to championship level NCAA. And doesn't take into account any other things with a player's game/style of play in terms of projections.

On quality and skill sure I’ll buy that.

But then the smaller court, more psychical and grown men with experience it’s a big difference to a younger player.

Hedo is a fair sized bigger then Giddey will ever be my man. Like chunky strong is the word to describe him. Also Giddey most likely won’t be the shooter or scorer prime Hedo was. Dude was a baller for the Magic.

Check up on Vasquez, that’s more in line with Giddey’s body and skillset archetype.

Wasn't comparing him to anyone (not sure if you thought I was another poster). Just saw the conversation above that post.

[Charm]

I'm not the biggest Giddey fan, but I see a lot of comps that don't do justice to his passing ability. Once he got his feet under him he was dropping double-digit dimes every other night. You basically never see that from an 18-year-old against quality competition...LaMelo and Doncic are basically the only two prospects in recent history who were on that level as a playmaker.

[Bensational]

Hedo is a fair sized bigger then Giddey will ever be my man. Like chunky strong is the word to describe him. Also Giddey most likely won’t be the shooter or scorer prime Hedo was. Dude was a baller for the Magic.

Check up on Vasquez, that’s more in line with Giddey’s body and skillset archetype.

I’ve heard the Greivis comp before and it just doesn’t align with what I saw/am seeing from either player.

Vasquez was a taller guard who played like a guard - got low on his drives and had more ground burst overall. The only similarities I see in game style is some flashy passing from Vasquez.

Giddey, to me, moves like a forward with the ball. He’s more upright and not head down like a guard on the attack. That’s what allows him to keep scanning the court to find the open man. That’s where I see the Hedo similarities. Hedo was 6’10, and Giddey is 6’8 rumoured to be 6’9 now. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was still growing.

Actually, the more I think about it, Giddey’s half court perimeter game - posture, style of handle, vision - reminds me mostly of Jokic, but with more speed and no low-post footwork/feel. Giddey won’t beat you with burst, but like Jokic, he’ll catch you off guard and surprise you with a move when you’re not ready.

[Dat2U]

I view him as the 5th or 6th best prospect in the draft. Court vision is special. At 18 there's so much polish and skill to his game, it's hard to see him completely busting. I don't think he has a clear comparable. The jumper is my biggest concern and it's why I can't move him any higher.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Anyone that doesn't realize the NBA has horrific level defense either doesn't actually watch the NBA, and/or they have never seen any other basketball competition other than the NBA.

If you actually have watched another basketball competition besides the NBA, and don't realize the NBA has the worst defense by far, then you don't understand basic rudimentary principles of basketball. What is considered acceptable or even standard level defense by NBA coaches would get a player automatically benched in Europe.

You’re just extremely biased, dude. So are you saying an NBL team would have done a better job defensively against the Lakers than the Suns did in the first round?

I'm not trying to answer for him as I don't know his perspective, but I think the NBA has the best defenders, but a league that does everything possible to nullify those defenders.

So yea, maybe an average NBA defender would be better on an even playing field, but considering teams in the NBA are setting moving screens, and so on, its much easier to score in the NBA. Luka Doncic and other Europeans have talked about this as well, so considering they've played both, I'mma take their word for it.

[yoyoboy]

Anyone that doesn't realize the NBA has horrific level defense either doesn't actually watch the NBA, and/or they have never seen any other basketball competition other than the NBA.

If you actually have watched another basketball competition besides the NBA, and don't realize the NBA has the worst defense by far, then you don't understand basic rudimentary principles of basketball. What is considered acceptable or even standard level defense by NBA coaches would get a player automatically benched in Europe.

You’re just extremely biased, dude. So are you saying an NBL team would have done a better job defensively against the Lakers than the Suns did in the first round?

I'm not trying to answer for him as I don't know his perspective, but I think the NBA has the best defenders, but a league that does everything possible to nullify those defenders.

So yea, maybe an average NBA defender would be better on an even playing field, but considering teams in the NBA are setting moving screens, and so on, its much easier to score in the NBA. Luka Doncic and other Europeans have talked about this as well, so considering they've played both, I'mma take their word for it.

I mean he clearly says there that "what is considered acceptable or even standard level defense by NBA coaches would get a player automatically benched in Europe," implying that the worse defense is due to the players and not the rules.

Also I think you're ignoring how much a smaller court and worse offensive teammates/worse spacing contributes to making it tougher for players to score in Europe than it might be for them in the NBA.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

You’re just extremely biased, dude. So are you saying an NBL team would have done a better job defensively against the Lakers than the Suns did in the first round?

I'm not trying to answer for him as I don't know his perspective, but I think the NBA has the best defenders, but a league that does everything possible to nullify those defenders.

So yea, maybe an average NBA defender would be better on an even playing field, but considering teams in the NBA are setting moving screens, and so on, its much easier to score in the NBA. Luka Doncic and other Europeans have talked about this as well, so considering they've played both, I'mma take their word for it.

I mean he clearly says there that "what is considered acceptable or even standard level defense by NBA coaches would get a player automatically benched in Europe," implying that the worse defense is due to the players and not the rules.

Also I think you're ignoring how much a smaller court and worse offensive teammates/worse spacing contributes to making it tougher for players to score in Europe than it might be for them in the NBA.

Could be, but considering Adam Silver has admitted to changing the rules for the purpose of getting more points scored, I think its safe to say the rules have a huge factor.

[DCasey91]

People will be dangerously close to overrating Giddey.

It’s enticing though when his transferable skill (passing) is of downright class.

Scoring prowess
Shooting
Defense

Might be overlooked for that one class aspect.

There is direct markers for the starting PG job in the NBA.

And if you aren’t the 1st or 2nd or in very rare cases (Nets/Irving) 3rd that acts as a 1st/2nd handing the keys over is risky.

I like Josh but his scoring, shooting and defense needs a lot of work. He’s gotten bigger but still needs 10+ pounds or 5kg extra in the old of added weight and strength. I’d say 210+ or 95+ kgs is fine for him.

He is 6”8” but he’s not Lamelo athletic or a Luka type body wise they are both superior archetypes.

He is talented at what he does. I hope he doesn’t rely solely on that because then he will be one dimensional as he is now.

[Charm]

Probably the only played ever to miss a game due to a self-inflicted concussion on a wide-open dunk. So yeah, now the world’s greatest athlete.

[BostonCouchGM]

he's so young and raw, I think he needs to hit the juice, stay overseas and work on his game. No chance imo he contributes for at least 3 years. If he works hard he can be special though. I think a team with multiple picks and the ability to be patient like GSW, HOU, or OKC will draft and stash.

[DaBolden76]

Giddey was impressive in his debut game today.

Watch on YouTube

[Nuntius]

Giddey was impressive in his debut game today.

Watch on YouTube

2/5 from 3 isn't bad. The willingness to shoot seems to be there and that could majorly unlock his game.