2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[Flying Colors]

I really don't think CP came here for one year. Maybe he did, who knows. If he leaves I'd hope out of respect for Jones and Monty he'd work out a sign and trade or something. Losing him for nothing in return would be a bummer.

Can't see him going to NY when he's so close to his family in LA here

Thats what I thought initially but if the Knicks are stupid enough to offer 40-50m more, do you say no? Thats say $250-320,000 per week extra. Not chump change.

If that happens, then can’t say I mind too much. He gave us a magical year, especially if it ends up with a chip, i’d just be thankful that it happened.

[lilfishi22]

Not too worried about NY attempts to poach CP3 away. I think there are more realistic options like Lowry who has less going for him in Toronto. NY would have offer CP3 a lot of dough and risk letting other potential FAs on the market sign elsewhere as they have a significant amount of cap space tied up to an offer sheet for CP3 which he could still reject.

And if I'm completely honest, if we win I'm kinda feeling like it wouldn't be the worst thing to start over and focus on building around our core rather than tying $35-40m to an aging PG for another 3 seasons.

If he takes the big offer, like Kawhi did with LA and leaving Toronto, you say thanks for the cheese and good luck. We start over and unlike the Raptors, we have GREAT pieces to build with

[JVL]

Congrats guys. The strongest team in the West made it through. Now go ahead and crush the Bucks! The future is so bright for this team with Booker and Ayton.

[BobbieL]

Biggest fear is if we win a chip, the whole thing being over quicker than we thought.

With rumours the Knicks sniffing around Paul and having a ton of cap space, it makes me nervous. The Knicks have a history and I could see them doing something silly, would they do a 3 year/130-140m type deal for CP3? And is the mission complete if he gets a chip?

Just would love he stays but I get nervous with New York as nothing would shock me in terms of $$$$.

I really don't think CP came here for one year. Maybe he did, who knows. If he leaves I'd hope out of respect for Jones and Monty he'd work out a sign and trade or something. Losing him for nothing in return would be a bummer.

Can't see him going to NY when he's so close to his family in LA here

Unless the KNicks just offer an insane amount of money - all things -- I think the Suns are a better team for the next three years than the Knicks. But if he moves on and the Suns have won a title - I will not be that disappointed . Get the bling and move on is fine with me

[bwgood77]

Can't see him going to NY when he's so close to his family in LA here

Thats what I thought initially but if the Knicks are stupid enough to offer 40-50m more, do you say no? Thats say $250-320,000 per week extra. Not chump change.

If that happens, then can’t say I mind too much. He gave us a magical year, especially if it ends up with a chip, i’d just be thankful that it happened.

I guess at some point it comes down to how important money is to you. I love where I work and work for far less money I could make elsewhere after working at places in the past I hated, I realized it's better to love where you work. I'm not saying I'd hate working elsewhere, but it's always an unknown if you will like it as much, the situation, people, city, weather, etc.

If I desperately needed money for some reason, it might be different.

For CP3, he's made over $300 million in his career so far. I imagine that's enough for him, his kids and his grandkids to live their lives on, even without work if they'd like...and likely beyond that.

So who knows how much the money matters as long as he's still making solid money?

Now it may be a point of principal for someone like him, just proving to others what he is still worth, but I don't know if he really needs that kind of outside validation. At some point in your life, you get to an age where stuff like that doesn't matter, and what matters outside of family is the right situation and just being comfortable.

Best case scenario would be like 2/$75, or 3/$100 with team option. Actually best would be he pick up his option year and if he is still worth it next summer we give him like 2/$60 the following summer, declining, preferably with a team option.

[bwgood77]

Not too worried about NY attempts to poach CP3 away. I think there are more realistic options like Lowry who has less going for him in Toronto. NY would have offer CP3 a lot of dough and risk letting other potential FAs on the market sign elsewhere as they have a significant amount of cap space tied up to an offer sheet for CP3 which he could still reject.

And if I'm completely honest, if we win I'm kinda feeling like it wouldn't be the worst thing to start over and focus on building around our core rather than tying $35-40m to an aging PG for another 3 seasons.

If he takes the big offer, like Kawhi did with LA and leaving Toronto, you say thanks for the cheese and good luck. We start over and unlike the Raptors, we have GREAT pieces to build with

Yeah, I really like Chris Paul and would rather keep him, but in theory it wouldn't be bad to get another younger guy for the core.

However, CP3 is a once in a generation type PG and maybe even more rare leader so I don't think it's something you so easily move on from, and on top of that, the other vet options (Lowry and Conley) are old also and/or injury prone, and the other PGs on the FA market I don't view, at least for the Suns, any better than Payne.

So I think by far the best option is to retain Paul, almost no matter what, and I can't see him being paid nearly as much as his last contract, retain Payne, and then draft a PG.

[bwgood77]

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[lilfishi22]

Not too worried about NY attempts to poach CP3 away. I think there are more realistic options like Lowry who has less going for him in Toronto. NY would have offer CP3 a lot of dough and risk letting other potential FAs on the market sign elsewhere as they have a significant amount of cap space tied up to an offer sheet for CP3 which he could still reject.

And if I'm completely honest, if we win I'm kinda feeling like it wouldn't be the worst thing to start over and focus on building around our core rather than tying $35-40m to an aging PG for another 3 seasons.

If he takes the big offer, like Kawhi did with LA and leaving Toronto, you say thanks for the cheese and good luck. We start over and unlike the Raptors, we have GREAT pieces to build with

Yeah, I really like Chris Paul and would rather keep him, but in theory it wouldn't be bad to get another younger guy for the core.

However, CP3 is a once in a generation type PG and maybe even more rare leader so I don't think it's something you so easily move on from, and on top of that, the other vet options (Lowry and Conley) are old also and/or injury prone, and the other PGs on the FA market I don't view, at least for the Suns, any better than Payne.

So I think by far the best option is to retain Paul, almost no matter what, and I can't see him being paid nearly as much as his last contract, retain Payne, and then draft a PG.

Obviously I'm not suggesting we can get even a poor man's CP3 on the market easily because of his game and intangibles and my comment is just my feeling on if CP3 was to go in another direction which I think is very unlikely.

But ultimately, CP3 is not a guy you have around and should be relied on for the next 3-4 years regardless of his decision and we have to start figuring out who that next guy is. Maybe there is no next guy, it could be Booker growing into that leader. Actually, it does feel a little bit like when we had a discussion on this board about Amare who ironically did leave to sign a $100m deal with NY lol. IIRC, one camp was on the side of pay him because there isn't anyone better and you learn to live with potential health concerns which turned about to be true because we replaced him with a homeless man's version of him and a bunch of past their prime dudes but he also did have injury related decline pretty quickly after his 1st season. CP3's body and game will certainly age better than Amare's (2 microfracture knees + athleticism based game) so there's less to worry about and it's only a 3 year deal but I think the concerns are still valid.

But really if he was to go then you start with a clean slate with 1 All-NBA, 2 All-Defense and a strong cast of support players to move forward with. It's a significantly better position to be in than Toronto when Kawhi left so I'm not really worried either way.

[bwgood77]

Not too worried about NY attempts to poach CP3 away. I think there are more realistic options like Lowry who has less going for him in Toronto. NY would have offer CP3 a lot of dough and risk letting other potential FAs on the market sign elsewhere as they have a significant amount of cap space tied up to an offer sheet for CP3 which he could still reject.

And if I'm completely honest, if we win I'm kinda feeling like it wouldn't be the worst thing to start over and focus on building around our core rather than tying $35-40m to an aging PG for another 3 seasons.

If he takes the big offer, like Kawhi did with LA and leaving Toronto, you say thanks for the cheese and good luck. We start over and unlike the Raptors, we have GREAT pieces to build with

Yeah, I really like Chris Paul and would rather keep him, but in theory it wouldn't be bad to get another younger guy for the core.

However, CP3 is a once in a generation type PG and maybe even more rare leader so I don't think it's something you so easily move on from, and on top of that, the other vet options (Lowry and Conley) are old also and/or injury prone, and the other PGs on the FA market I don't view, at least for the Suns, any better than Payne.

So I think by far the best option is to retain Paul, almost no matter what, and I can't see him being paid nearly as much as his last contract, retain Payne, and then draft a PG.

Obviously I'm not suggesting we can get even a poor man's CP3 on the market easily because of his game and intangibles and my comment is just my feeling on if CP3 was to go in another direction which I think is very unlikely.

But ultimately, CP3 is not a guy you have around and should be relied on for the next 3-4 years regardless of his decision and we have to start figuring out who that next guy is. Maybe there is no next guy, it could be Booker growing into that leader. Actually, it does feel a little bit like when we had a discussion on this board about Amare who ironically did leave to sign a $100m deal with NY lol. IIRC, one camp was on the side of pay him because there isn't anyone better and you learn to live with potential health concerns which turned about to be true because we replaced him with a homeless man's version of him and a bunch of past their prime dudes but he also did have injury related decline pretty quickly after his 1st season. CP3's body and game will certainly age better than Amare's (2 microfracture knees + athleticism based game) so there's less to worry about and it's only a 3 year deal but I think the concerns are still valid.

But really if he was to go then you start with a clean slate with 1 All-NBA, 2 All-Defense and a strong cast of support players to move forward with. It's a significantly better position to be in than Toronto when Kawhi left so I'm not really worried either way.

Yeah, I think there may be a number of options.

It could be Payne.
It could be Rubio again if we thought he had a resurgence in him at his age like Nash did.
It could be a guy like Smart in a combo role.
It could be Brogdon since he has been rumored to be on the trade block, or even if we signed Paul for 2 years $75 and then went after Brogdon in FA or someone else like FVV.

Maybe a rookie PG emerges.

[bwgood77]

I wonder what we would offer Paul if he was planning on opting out and didn't have any other teams pursue him, basically meaning he hasn't been assigned any sort of market value..no bidding. Like if immediately NY, Dallas, and other teams with cap space quickly spent it and he couldn't pretend he had other offers. Obviously the smart thing for him to do at that point is to pick up his option and re-assess next year unless he was worried about injury.

I think if we wanted to give him an extra year and say $20 million more just to secure him for an additional year and prevent FA a 2/$65 million deal would make sense and he could know he just made over $20 million.

[suns12345]

I wonder what we would offer Paul if he was planning on opting out and didn't have any other teams pursue him, basically meaning he hasn't been assigned any sort of market value..no bidding. Like if immediately NY, Dallas, and other teams with cap space quickly spent it and he couldn't pretend he had other offers. Obviously the smart thing for him to do at that point is to pick up his option and re-assess next year unless he was worried about injury.

I think if we wanted to give him an extra year and say $20 million more just to secure him for an additional year and prevent FA a 2/$65 million deal would make sense and he could know he just made over $20 million.

How much do you think the desired dollar figure for someone like Chris Paul would be determined by him actually caring about making more money for his financial future vs wanting the recognition of being paid what he is worth relative to his peers?

It's always an interesting thought for me as I (obviously) have no concept of what that perspective would be like as a multi-multi-millionaire.

[bwgood77]

I wonder what we would offer Paul if he was planning on opting out and didn't have any other teams pursue him, basically meaning he hasn't been assigned any sort of market value..no bidding. Like if immediately NY, Dallas, and other teams with cap space quickly spent it and he couldn't pretend he had other offers. Obviously the smart thing for him to do at that point is to pick up his option and re-assess next year unless he was worried about injury.

I think if we wanted to give him an extra year and say $20 million more just to secure him for an additional year and prevent FA a 2/$65 million deal would make sense and he could know he just made over $20 million.

How much do you think the desired dollar figure for someone like Chris Paul would be determined by him actually caring about making more money for his financial future vs wanting the recognition of being paid what he is worth relative to his peers?

It's always an interesting thought for me as I (obviously) have no concept of what that perspective would be like as a multi-multi-millionaire.

Well he's made $300 million or so in his career so far, so I think his financial future is set regardless..as well as his children, grandchildren and their children and probably more. Unless he has squandered it away.

I think most of the time people when people are set in a way like this the main motivation they may have if they are looking for a high dollar is because they want validation of what they think they are worth, relatively speaking, compared to others in the NBA.

[NapoleonII]

Yeah, I think the 300 mil career earnings is obviously a factor. Chris seems like an intelligent, long-view oriented family dude, I'm sure he's invested a lot of it.

But I think the mindset of these guys aren't just simply millionaires, but they know the work they've put into their craft and bodies.

CP3 has separated himself from every 6'0 baller on the planet, for 15 years, has absolutely mastered his craft.

CP3 is probably looking around at his peers (Curry/Westbrook/Wall) and what they'r getting paid and even the young guys he still can consistently beat (Morant, Fox) and probably thinking he's WORTH a 30-40m contract. He's healthy, his game has aged well. Especially since for years he's been hearing how much of an albatross his contract was, how "done" he was next to Harden and the contending Rockets.

So it's a pride thing, it's "everybody got proven wrong so he's gonna get PAID" thing. And it's a generational wealth thing. No way Chris takes anything less than 25m.

[King4Day]

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[Revived]

We've certainly done really well in spite of being thin at the 5. And as long as we play uptempo, before opposing defenses can get set, it won't be too much of a paramount issue for us. Still, having another big for specific matchups/ situations, Wherein Ayton may sit or have fouls becomes more of a necessity than a luxury when considering neither of Saric or Kaminsky will offer much defense. And IF Davis hadn't gotten injured, AND Ayton had to sit, Would you then prefer a legitimate option at center or Saric or Kaminsky? So depending upon the team/ matchup, You really want to have that available tangible depth.

Luckily, There'll be no shortage of affordable options to consider in either free agency or in the draft. All in all, it is an important position that should be reasonably addressed.

I think the area where the opposing teams injuries have helped the most is at the backup 5 position. Opposing teams would’ve planned to get AD/Murray/Ibaka/Kawhi etc in the game when Saric is and just cooked him. I mean he couldn’t hold up against a washed up Cousins either but thankfully Booker/CP3 attacked Cousins enough on the other end to where they couldn’t keep playing him very much.

And obviously the biggest one is Ayton’s durability. He’s been playing heavy mins, even some 40+ min games, without injury so thankfully we haven’t had to go into a nightmare scenario of having to start Dario Saric at the 5 in the playoffs.

Depth in the front court will definitely be something James Jones looks at in the off season imo. It’s a shame, Saric was supposed to be a good shooter and this season he’s probably the most open looks out of any player in the league due to the gravity of Booker and CP3 but he’s bricked them. Unless he has some sort of hand injury that they haven’t disclosed, he’s been the only disappointment in the playoffs for the Suns thus far.

I completely agree!

Also it is truly a shame about Saric. For awhile much as I hack on him for his inconsistencies, I really do love his effort and heart! And with all of our players put forth that much effort. However, I for my part just can't comprehend how a guy that's 6'10 and only 225 lbs is so terribly slow and unathletic? I mean am I missing something here? Is 220 lbs really that heavy and anchoring for a big? It simply baffles me that he for his size can't even play reasonable defense. And unfortunately, Without any semblance of legitimate defense, He becomes a " one trick pony" wherein IF he's not hitting his shots, He becomes barely playable depending upon the situation. Having another athletic 2 way defensive big with legitimate size and athleticism is paramount for us to help sustain our post defense, dominance, etc. Whenever Ayton sits. But also to afford Ayton reasonable rest and not to overwork or burn him out to quickly.

I think that for the money, The Suns will explore moving Sarics' salary for an expiring contract or draft assets in order to clear salary and acquire a better supporting fit at the 5 behind Ayton. Also, freeing up a bit more cap flexibility towards our depth and contractual scale increases.

He just has zero ability to change direction. The weird thing is that he comes from an athletic family too so it’s not like genes is his major problem. Once a player does one simply crossover, Saric is already behind.

And yeah burning out Ayton is something to keep an eye on as well. He’s being played 40+ mins in some of these games in his first playoff run. Even with the long rest between games, that isn’t ideal for a 7 footer.

We would really notice the lack of a competent big man in the event that Ayton gets injured or becomes unavailable to play in a game. Hopefully we don’t see that anytime soon.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I think the 300 mil career earnings is obviously a factor. Chris seems like an intelligent, long-view oriented family dude, I'm sure he's invested a lot of it.

But I think the mindset of these guys aren't just simply millionaires, but they know the work they've put into their craft and bodies.

CP3 has separated himself from every 6'0 baller on the planet, for 15 years, has absolutely mastered his craft.

CP3 is probably looking around at his peers (Curry/Westbrook/Wall) and what they'r getting paid and even the young guys he still can consistently beat (Morant, Fox) and probably thinking he's WORTH a 30-40m contract. He's healthy, his game has aged well. Especially since for years he's been hearing how much of an albatross his contract was, how "done" he was next to Harden and the contending Rockets.

So it's a pride thing, it's "everybody got proven wrong so he's gonna get PAID" thing. And it's a generational wealth thing. No way Chris takes anything less than 25m.

Then we have a guy like KD taking less so they could sign Jordan. Hopefully CP3 wants a good team around him...guys he loves more than making the most money possibly for himself after making $300 million.

If he doesn't get another offer no reason to bid a lot of money. It's like going onto ebay and bidding way over asking for something that has no bids, or going to a real auction when starting bids are $100 with no one bidding and saying "$300!"

Just not smart financial sense. Offer him 2/$65 if he opts out. He'd still be the highest paid player on the team and get $21 more million from us...or a team option for a 3rd year but at that point it would really hurt depth and who knows how effective he will stll be a that age..no current effective player is that age.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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But they didn't add a big C off the bench..


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If Bucks advance, who are you rooting for in the Finals?

I saw a post of yours from a week ago or so in the Bucks forum where you said you weren’t worried about the Suns if Bucks have to play them in the finals. Just curious, do you still feel that way even with Giannis gimpy?

I thought it would be a good close series either way.

It's funny I've joked about a suns bucks finals for years and recently was saying it would be cool but now that it's actually happening it's kind of a bummer because one team has to lose.

I don't think I've ever said I thought the bucks would beat the suns, I did probably say some over there were way too dismissive of the bucks chances. Wisconsin sports fans are so used to heartbreaking losses some get way too negative all the time. I've been saying it's a toss up of a series and truly believe that.

Who I'm rooting for is a tough one. Hell I used to listen to Bucks games on the radio as a kid in the 80s because I lived on a farm out in the country with no access to cable. My fandom runs deep. It would be cool to see Giannis get a ring after committing to stay there. BUT I think ever so slightly I'm actually rooting for the suns this week. I really really like this current group and Monty Williams. Plus selfishly I would get to enjoy the win a little more living in AZ and getting to go to the parade and all that stuff.

But as I was saying it's awkward and actually not as cool as I would have thought to have both my teams in the finals.

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[bwgood77]

It's funny I've joked about a suns bucks finals for years and recently was saying it would be cool but now that it's actually happening it's kind of a bummer because one team has to lose.

I don't think I've ever said I thought the bucks would beat the suns, I did probably say some over there were way too dismissive of the bucks chances. Wisconsin sports fans are so used to heartbreaking losses some get way too negative all the time. I've been saying it's a toss up of a series and truly believe that.

Who I'm rooting for is a tough one. Hell I used to listen to Bucks games on the radio as a kid in the 80s because I lived on a farm out in the country with no access to cable. My fandom runs deep. It would be cool to see Giannis get a ring after committing to stay there. BUT I think ever so slightly I'm actually rooting for the suns this week. I really really like this current group and Monty Williams. Plus selfishly I would get to enjoy the win a little more living in AZ and getting to go to the parade and all that stuff.

But as I was saying it's awkward and actually not as cool as I would have thought to have both my teams in the finals.

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What is the latest on Giannis? Do you think he will play and if so, be a pretty good percentage of his normal self? Or just no idea?

One thing about the Bucks is that if they don't win they probably have quite a bit better chance of getting back due to the lack of a lot of competition in the east. Sure the Nets are a juggernaut if healthy, but who knows if they will be?

Then the Suns have the LA teams, GS, Utah, Denver, Dallas, etc to try and get through and while they may not all be healthy, some of them should be, plus they won't have Paul too much longer, especially at the level of play of this year which was his best in like 5 years. I think he probably has 1-2 years left at a high level.

[King4Day]

It's funny I've joked about a suns bucks finals for years and recently was saying it would be cool but now that it's actually happening it's kind of a bummer because one team has to lose.

I don't think I've ever said I thought the bucks would beat the suns, I did probably say some over there were way too dismissive of the bucks chances. Wisconsin sports fans are so used to heartbreaking losses some get way too negative all the time. I've been saying it's a toss up of a series and truly believe that.

Who I'm rooting for is a tough one. Hell I used to listen to Bucks games on the radio as a kid in the 80s because I lived on a farm out in the country with no access to cable. My fandom runs deep. It would be cool to see Giannis get a ring after committing to stay there. BUT I think ever so slightly I'm actually rooting for the suns this week. I really really like this current group and Monty Williams. Plus selfishly I would get to enjoy the win a little more living in AZ and getting to go to the parade and all that stuff.

But as I was saying it's awkward and actually not as cool as I would have thought to have both my teams in the finals.

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What is the latest on Giannis? Do you think he will play and if so, be a pretty good percentage of his normal self? Or just no idea?

One thing about the Bucks is that if they don't win they probably have quite a bit better chance of getting back due to the lack of a lot of competition in the east. Sure the Nets are a juggernaut if healthy, but who knows if they will be?

Then the Suns have the LA teams, GS, Utah, Denver, Dallas, etc to try and get through and while they may not all be healthy, some of them should be, plus they won't have Paul too much longer, especially at the level of play of this year which was his best in like 5 years. I think he probably has 1-2 years left at a high level.

This has quietly been in the back of my mind.
Get the job done this season because the road back will not be easy.

[WeekapaugGroove]

It's funny I've joked about a suns bucks finals for years and recently was saying it would be cool but now that it's actually happening it's kind of a bummer because one team has to lose.

I don't think I've ever said I thought the bucks would beat the suns, I did probably say some over there were way too dismissive of the bucks chances. Wisconsin sports fans are so used to heartbreaking losses some get way too negative all the time. I've been saying it's a toss up of a series and truly believe that.

Who I'm rooting for is a tough one. Hell I used to listen to Bucks games on the radio as a kid in the 80s because I lived on a farm out in the country with no access to cable. My fandom runs deep. It would be cool to see Giannis get a ring after committing to stay there. BUT I think ever so slightly I'm actually rooting for the suns this week. I really really like this current group and Monty Williams. Plus selfishly I would get to enjoy the win a little more living in AZ and getting to go to the parade and all that stuff.

But as I was saying it's awkward and actually not as cool as I would have thought to have both my teams in the finals.

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What is the latest on Giannis? Do you think he will play and if so, be a pretty good percentage of his normal self? Or just no idea?

One thing about the Bucks is that if they don't win they probably have quite a bit better chance of getting back due to the lack of a lot of competition in the east. Sure the Nets are a juggernaut if healthy, but who knows if they will be?

Then the Suns have the LA teams, GS, Utah, Denver, Dallas, etc to try and get through and while they may not all be healthy, some of them should be, plus they won't have Paul too much longer, especially at the level of play of this year which was his best in like 5 years. I think he probably has 1-2 years left at a high level.

My guess is Giannis plays game one but that's just a guess.

Is the East really an easier road back? Brooklyn healthy and with an off-season to add a little depth might be the scariest team in the league. Philly will still be good. Atlanta should be good. The heat will try to add a piece and so will Boston.

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