2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[nate33]

I have no desire whatsoever to trade down in order to land a pick in the 50's. Picks in the 50's are worse than no pick at all. With no pick at all, you at least keep the roster spot open to try out a bunch of undrafted guys and get the guy who looks like the best fit. At pick #58, you have to make a permanent decision on draft day and pick a guy that you really haven't had a good long look at. I'd bet good money that the success rate of undrafted walk-on's is better than the success rate of guys picked after 50.

[mhd]

I have no desire whatsoever to trade down in order to land a pick in the 50's. Picks in the 50's are worse than no pick at all. With no pick at all, you at least keep the roster spot open to try out a bunch of undrafted guys and get the guy who looks like the best fit. At pick #58, you have to make a permanent decision on draft day and pick a guy that you really haven't had a good long look at. I'd bet good money that the success rate of undrafted walk-on's is better than the success rate of guys picked after 50.

You could always take an international player in the 50s (with the agreement that the player wouldn't try and come in this upcoming year).

[dckingsfan]

I have no desire whatsoever to trade down in order to land a pick in the 50's. Picks in the 50's are worse than no pick at all. With no pick at all, you at least keep the roster spot open to try out a bunch of undrafted guys and get the guy who looks like the best fit. At pick #58, you have to make a permanent decision on draft day and pick a guy that you really haven't had a good long look at. I'd bet good money that the success rate of undrafted walk-on's is better than the success rate of guys picked after 50.

You could always take an international player in the 50s (with the agreement that the player wouldn't try and come in this upcoming year).

Or trade that pick and cash to move up?

[mhd]

Random thoughts:

Cade Cunningham reminds me of Joe Johnson
Jalen Suggs reminds me of Deron Williams
Evan Mobley reminds me of Chris Bosh
Jalen Green reminds me of Zach Lavine

My board at 15: Wagner, Cooper & Springer are my top 3 preferences.

I feel very strongly about Sharife Cooper. At this moment he would be my choice although I'm open to a trade down.

Only guy if he slips that I'd take over Cooper is Franz Wagner (I assume Mitchell & Giddey will be off the board) Franz fits all the boxes as a 3&D forward and would be a perfect fit although the shooting was a bit inconsistent. I see nothing wrong with his form however.

Jaden Springer has risen on my board is right there with Cooper. Might be the better fit than Cooper as a 3rd guard but Cooper has the wow factor.

My sleepers list:

Ayo Dosunmu
B.J. Boston
Matthew Hurt
Isaiah Livers
Ariel Hukporti
Austin Reaves

Dat, what are your thoughts on Zaire Williams? I only ask because it was reported that we interviewed him.

[Dat2U]

Random thoughts:

Cade Cunningham reminds me of Joe Johnson
Jalen Suggs reminds me of Deron Williams
Evan Mobley reminds me of Chris Bosh
Jalen Green reminds me of Zach Lavine

My board at 15: Wagner, Cooper & Springer are my top 3 preferences.

I feel very strongly about Sharife Cooper. At this moment he would be my choice although I'm open to a trade down.

Only guy if he slips that I'd take over Cooper is Franz Wagner (I assume Mitchell & Giddey will be off the board) Franz fits all the boxes as a 3&D forward and would be a perfect fit although the shooting was a bit inconsistent. I see nothing wrong with his form however.

Jaden Springer has risen on my board is right there with Cooper. Might be the better fit than Cooper as a 3rd guard but Cooper has the wow factor.

My sleepers list:

Ayo Dosunmu
B.J. Boston
Matthew Hurt
Isaiah Livers
Ariel Hukporti
Austin Reaves

Dat, what are your thoughts on Zaire Williams? I only ask because it was reported that we interviewed him.

He reminded me of DeMarr Johnson who managed to be a lottery pick some years back. Looks fluid and smooth for his height but he can't seem make shots & he doesn't quite know how to play. I understand taking a flyer on him at some point tho due to the physical tools but not at #15.

[80sballboy]

Random thoughts:

Cade Cunningham reminds me of Joe Johnson
Jalen Suggs reminds me of Deron Williams
Evan Mobley reminds me of Chris Bosh
Jalen Green reminds me of Zach Lavine

My board at 15: Wagner, Cooper & Springer are my top 3 preferences.

I feel very strongly about Sharife Cooper. At this moment he would be my choice although I'm open to a trade down.

Only guy if he slips that I'd take over Cooper is Franz Wagner (I assume Mitchell & Giddey will be off the board) Franz fits all the boxes as a 3&D forward and would be a perfect fit although the shooting was a bit inconsistent. I see nothing wrong with his form however.

Jaden Springer has risen on my board is right there with Cooper. Might be the better fit than Cooper as a 3rd guard but Cooper has the wow factor.

My sleepers list:

Ayo Dosunmu
B.J. Boston
Matthew Hurt
Isaiah Livers
Ariel Hukporti
Austin Reaves

Dat, what are your thoughts on Zaire Williams? I only ask because it was reported that we interviewed him.

He reminded me of DeMarr Johnson who managed to be a lottery pick some years back. Looks fluid and smooth for his height but he can't seem make shots & he doesn't quite know how to play. I understand taking a flyer on him at some point tho due to the physical tools but not at #15.

I probably like him more than you because he played under some of the worst circumstances of any college player this year. However, this is not a weak draft and there will be more solid options at the 15th spot. I understand he's a risk due to his slender build and poor shooting %.

[Dat2U]

Generally I prefer trading up as opposed to trading down. I've supported a trade down in '19 and would be okay with it here but I usually prefer the idea of getting the player you absolutely want during the draft process, especially if that player is at a higher tier from the group of players your likely selecting from.

My board at the moment after the assumed top 5.

6. Giddey
7. Mitchell
8. Wagner
9. Cooper
10. Springer
11. Bouknight
12. Butler

Next Tier

13. J. Johnson
14. Moody
15. Kispert
16. K. Johnson
17. Duarte
18. I. Jackson
19. Sengun
20. Dosunmu
21. Barnes
22. Garuba

I readily admit Giddey & Cooper aren't great fits but that probably wouldn't stop me from selecting either considering who's on the board. I view Mitchell & Wagner as the best plug & play types with some upside that are available but i couldn't imagine trading up for any of them since Cooper, Springer, Bouknight & Butler are all on the same tier.

If I can get Cooper, Springer, etc at 21 instead of 15 and aquire the 32 that's something I'd be very happy with but I'd want to make sure Giddey, Mitchell & Wagner are off the board first.

[nate33]

My board at the moment after the assumed top 5.

6. Giddey
7. Mitchell
8. Wagner
9. Cooper
10. Springer
11. Bouknight
12. Butler

Next Tier

13. J. Johnson
14. Moody
15. Kispert
16. K. Johnson
17. Duarte
18. I. Jackson
19. Sengun
20. Dosunmu
21. Barnes
22. Garuba

I haven't looked too much at Springer until you ranked him so high.

He's got good size for a guard: 6-4 with a 6-8 wingspan while weighing 202 as a freshman. And he's very young. I also like that he drew a lot of FT's, and played better later in the season against better competition. His FT percentage is a bit low, but that doesn't alarm me too much for a freshman.

The biggest red flag I see is that he didn't do so well in the speed and quickness tests at the combine. He was outperformed by a lot of forwards. He does have a very solid vertical leap though.

Watching some highlights, I like that he has the ability to accelerate to the cup when he sees a seam, and he is very good at protecting the ball while knifing through the lane, but he doesn't really explode to the rim on the finish. He might have trouble finishing against NBA competition. He has good balance and footwork when maneuvering into a midrange shot. Defensively, I think he is good with his hands but he's not particularly great in his lateral quickness.

[doclinkin]

Jaden Springer has risen on my board is right there with Cooper. Might be the better fit than Cooper as a 3rd guard but Cooper has the wow factor.

My sleepers list:

Ayo Dosunmu

I like Springer. He looks the part. Talented, developing, with upside. Skilled defensive player, hits an outside shot. He's a good fit who also has upside. Super young and skilled already. He won't turn 19 until September. That's a good pick. Agreed I'd put him ahead of Bouknight, who has the athleticism but will have to work on that ranged shot.

I do think Dosunmu will be a solid player in the league. Journeyman type who will put up solid numbers early. Coaches will find a role for him in the game.

[DCZards]

Generally I prefer trading up as opposed to trading down. I've supported a trade down in '19 and would be okay with it here but I usually prefer the idea of getting the player you absolutely want during the draft process, especially if that player is at a higher tier from the group of players your likely selecting from.

My board at the moment after the assumed top 5.

6. Giddey
7. Mitchell
8. Wagner
9. Cooper
10. Springer
11. Bouknight
12. Butler

Next Tier

13. J. Johnson
14. Moody
15. Kispert
16. K. Johnson
17. Duarte
18. I. Jackson
19. Sengun
20. Dosunmu
21. Barnes
22. Garuba

I readily admit Giddey & Cooper aren't great fits but that probably wouldn't stop me from selecting either considering who's on the board. I view Mitchell & Wagner as the best plug & play types with some upside that are available but i couldn't imagine trading up for any of them since Cooper, Springer, Bouknight & Butler are all on the same tier.

If I can get Cooper, Springer, etc at 21 instead of 15 and aquire the 32 that's something I'd be very happy with but I'd want to make sure Giddey, Mitchell & Wagner are off the board first.

I’m surprised to see Bouknight and Butler ranked so high…although I don’t disagree with either ranking. Bouknight has been kinda flying under the radar. He was ranked in the top 5 in some mocks coming into last season, but he struggled offensively at times last season and didn’t have that good of a season overall. But he was also playing injured a good bit of the time and was trying to carry a not-so-good UCONN team. Bouknight’s a natural scorer with good size for a guard and could surprise at the next level.

I think Jalen Johnson will turn out to be a top ten talent.

Typically I agree with the philosophy of taking the BPA. But when you’re picking 15th deciding who the BPA is can be awfully subjective. This year I hope the Zards seriously take into account need. And that means shooting, shooting, shooting.

Given that reality, my top three would be Moody, Butler and Kispert. Both Moody and Butler can defend as well as shoot.

[80sballboy]

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[80sballboy]

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[payitforward]

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I hope this means they are thinking about buying a R2 pick!

[80sballboy]

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[dckingsfan]

I hope this means they are thinking about buying a R2 pick!

So this, fingers and toes crossed...

[Mizerooskie]

Getting the feeling Cooper will be gone by 15.

Just too much hype momentum.

[payitforward]

I have no desire whatsoever to trade down in order to land a pick in the 50's. Picks in the 50's are worse than no pick at all. With no pick at all, you at least keep the roster spot open to try out a bunch of undrafted guys and get the guy who looks like the best fit. At pick #58, you have to make a permanent decision on draft day and pick a guy that you really haven't had a good long look at. I'd bet good money that the success rate of undrafted walk-on's is better than the success rate of guys picked after 50.

No one would trade down from #15 "in order to land a pick in the 50's, nate."

I threw #58 on the end of my proposed trade down as a zero-cost "plus," since the truth is that #21 & #32 are perfectly good value for #15. Viz....

I still think the Knicks are our best potential trading partner in the draft. Our #15 for their #s 21, 32, and... 58.

Of course, you don't have to agree that 15 for 21 & 32 is good value, but that's not the point, really: if I'd written "19 & 32," I'd still have thrown on that #58 at the end -- just b/c the Knicks own that pick &, like you, might rate it as valueless.

You're wrong about that, btw -- or more to the point, your reasoning to support the idea is wrong. Even if a #58 pick were totally without value, your point about undrafted guys wouldn't hold water for at least 3 reasons:

1. That #58 pick doesn't stop me from pursuing "a bunch of undrafted guys" -- my draft rights last long enough that I can still go through any such exercise I want. Moreover, I can sign Mr. 58 to a 2 way contract & waive him if I want to or have to.

2. There'll be competition for the undrafted guys: if there's someone I like, I'm much happier to take him at #58 than be one of the suitors for him post-draft.

3. Finally: over the decades, has the #21 pick been a better player than the #23 player? Nah. But, that doesn't mean you wouldn't prefer to have the the #21 pick instead of #23. It's about scope of action, room to move....

[80sballboy]

Fred Katz asked a scout about potential prospects that could be there at 15
https://theathletic.com/2692076/2021/07/07/nba-scout-evaluates-wizards-draft-targets-question-marks-upside-and-fit/

Moses Moody
6-foot-6 wing | 19 years old | Arkansas

2020-21 stats: 16.8 ppg., 5.8 rpg., 1.6 apg., 48 percent on 2s, 36 percent on 3s

Vecenie’s Draft Positioning (per Sam Vecenie’s most recent mock): No. 11 to the Hornets

What’s his defensive potential as an NBA player?

Well, you hope it’s what he showed in college. He has a great body for a wing. He has great length. He showed some shooting. You hope he’s a Mikal Bridges type down the road. He’s not the same player as Bridges, but kind of the same idea: a wing who can shoot and defend, as every team wants. If you have him on your team, you know teams are gonna look at that guy and cover him in some way or another because that’s what everybody wants in this league these days. He’s very young, obviously. I don’t think he’s someone who’s gonna help you right away. And if we’re talking specifically about the Wizards, it’s a question of how much they’re willing to wait for someone like that to develop.

What specifically do you think needs to develop?

The body needs to develop, and he needs to mature in many ways because he’s so young. … He just turned 19 a month ago. I think it’s around that, just his body needs to mature, game needs to mature.

Trey Murphy
6-foot-9 guard/wing | 20 years old | Virginia

2020-21 stats: 11.3 ppg., 3.4 rpg., 50-43-93 shooting line

Vecenie’s Draft Positioning: No. 23 to the Rockets

Murphy was a three-year college player. His defense was good. What kind of a role could he play on an NBA team if he had to step on the court now? And how productive could he be in that role right away?

Talking with colleagues and other teams, some people like him; some people don’t see it that much. I think on top of what you mentioned there’s also some good basketball IQ there. The Wizards pick 15th. That might be too high for him from what I’m gathering from other teams. I don’t think there’s a lot of upside.

The case for Moody over him is age. The younger you are, teams are more counting on your upside. Moody’s body is probably better for that position, too. I think what people are most torn about is (Murphy’s) defense. Is it gonna translate? In college, it was there. I’m not sure it’s gonna be of that magnitude in the league. I think people feel more comfortable with his shooting. But there’s a chance that’s the only thing that will translate with him, and if that’s the only thing that translates, it has to be high, high level. If you can’t do anything more than shooting, then that shooting better be elite, super high-level shooting.

So, I think there are a lot of questions with him. Can he help right away? I wouldn’t count on him to help from Year 1. Maybe he can help more than Moody, but still — a team that makes the playoffs, that’s trying to win, I wouldn’t count on him from Day 1 to help, but for sure it’s gonna be faster than a freshman, the one-and-done guys that are still trying to figure it out.

Alperen Şengün
6-foot-9 big | 18 years old | Besiktas

2020-21 stats (Turkish Super League): 19.2 ppg., 9.4 rpg., 2.5 apg., 68 percent on 2s

Vecenie’s Draft Positioning: No. 12 to the Spurs

Şengün just won the Turkish League MVP as an 18-year-old. Is he a better prospect than the public realizes? Is his back-to-the-basket game too old school to translate?

He is probably the most confusing prospect in this draft for many reasons. One, because of the style you mentioned. Two, because of not playing in EuroLeague or top levels in Europe. That’s also not helping answer the questions. He played on a very young team. He’s gonna turn 19 four days before the draft. But he’s not just a post-up guy; he’s a post-up guy that takes time like in the good old days. He takes his time in the post. And if you do that, you have to be damn good in doing that, right?

He kinda needs to be the focus of the offense, and nobody plays like that, right? It’s what’s so confusing. That team (in Turkey), specifically — he was the best player, so they played that way, but nobody in the NBA plays that way. I wouldn’t put him in the same box as Luka Dončić. But this kid, he was not supposed to be this good in the Turkish League this season.

The thing with those players that don’t fit the profile of modern basketball is if it works out, it works out. And I don’t know with this kid where it’s going. Again, it’s very confusing. And it depends a lot on how comfortable the coach feels with him and the other players. If Russell Westbrook doesn’t wanna pass the ball to the big guy for him to post up for 10 seconds, which is probably the case, then I don’t know. Defensively, he’s gonna struggle. Shooting can come down the road, not from Day 1. He can pass the ball well for a big. But again, I think there are a lot of question marks with this guy. Either you love him or you just don’t see it.

Corey Kispert
6-foot-7 wing | 22 years old | Gonzaga

2020-21 stats: 18.6 ppg., 5.0 rpg., 53-44-88 shooting, 2.8 3s made per game

Vecenie’s Draft Positioning: No. 15 to the Wizards

If you don’t have multiple good skills, you need one incredible skill. Is Kispert’s incredible skill, which is shooting, good enough to where you say drafting him 15th is worth it? And do you think he gets to a point offensively where he is more than just a dangerous spot-up guy?

He has the IQ, as well. He has experience at Gonzaga. He played at a high level with them. I do think he has more than shooting, but he’s gonna live off the shooting if that makes sense. If he’s ever gonna do more than that, it’s because he’s an elite shooter. He’s not gonna be able to do more without being an elite shooter. Does that make sense?

He’s kinda something between (Doug) McDermott and Joe Harris. That’s the type of player you see in him. He is probably the most ready player to help a team in this range. Specifically talking about the Wizards, he, (Davis) Bertans and (Bradley) Beal — that’s a lot of shooting on the floor. It’s three guys who can shoot, and each one can shoot at a high volume. They can make four, five, maybe even more on any given night. And that’s a lot. Playing with Russ and the shooting he needs around him, there’s a lot to like for the Wizards. The team is looking to win. Kispert is ready to help. Everybody likes shooting now in this league, and he’s a high-level, high-volume shooter. I can see how it would work there.

Ziaire Williams
6-foot-7 wing | 19 years old | Stanford

2020-21 stats: 10.7 ppg., 4.6 rpg., 2.2 apg., 43 percent on 2s, 29 percent on 3s

Vecenie’s Draft Positioning: No. 17 to the Grizzlies

Williams is fluid and athletic, but every scout seems to agree that he’s going to take a few years to develop. If he comes onto the floor as an NBA player next season, are there any pro skills he has right off the bat?

I think in college, he showed glimpses of many things but there was inconsistency with each one of them. He showed he can shoot. He showed he can score off the dribble. He showed some defense: off the ball, on the ball. He showed a lot. But at the same time, none of that was something he did consistently, even at the college level. I imagine his body will take time because he’s still physically weak. He’s gonna have to get stronger. If he works out, he’s gonna help a team in many ways down the road. If everything clicks, he can be nice. But for everything to click, that’s hard, and it’s gonna take time.

So, I don’t know if the Wizards are ready to bet on something like that. I think it’s a pick for someone that will take time to develop his body. Also, when you take him, what do you develop first when he gets to your team? Because, again, he showed a little bit of everything, but none of it was like, ‘OK, that’s what he does.’ And some of these players end up outside the league in some years because they couldn’t develop one or two things as their go-to. Whoever takes him probably needs to be very careful and very smart with his development program.


Would Franz Wagner be a good fit for the Wizards at No. 15? (Tim Nwachukwu / Getty Images)
Franz Wagner
6-foot-9 forward | 19 years old | Michigan

2020-21 stats: 12.5 ppg., 6.5 rpg., 3.0 apg., 1.3 spg., 1.0 bpg.

Vecenie’s Draft Positioning: No. 10 to the Pelicans

Franz Wagner had a high block and steal rate this season and was a good help defender in college. Do you see that level of impact defense carrying over to the NBA?

I’m not sure he’s that level of impact. I think in the NBA, he’s gonna have to more use his IQ to defend in some situations, which he has. He’s a smart basketball player. He has to use some of his instincts. The thing is, Wagner fits the Wizards’ draft profile. They took two international forwards in their last two drafts with Deni (Avdija) and Rui (Hachimura). They seem to like that kind of player: that position, that versatility, can play some defense. But Wagner doesn’t look like a lock-down defender in the league. So, he could play some defense. I agree with that. Is he a difference-maker on defense? I’m not sure. But he can help you. I feel confident he can help you on defense. But if you’re picking just for the defense, I think it’s gonna be too much.

Do you think he would be redundant with Avdija and Hachimura? How would you evaluate that fit?

I think the potential headache here with Wagner and Deni and Rui is that all three of them are 3/4, 4/3. I don’t think any of them can play the 2. I don’t think any of them can play the 5. Maybe Rui can play a small-ball 5 down the road. Maybe Deni can play some giant 2 in specific lineups. But their default positions are 3/4, 4/3. … Playing all three at the same time, one of them would have to figure out something that will help him play at that extra position. … I think Wagner can play with both of them, so in that sense, I think it works, but if one of them turns out to be a great backup, that’s great, too. So, I don’t think they’re stepping on each other’s toes in that sense.

If someone is too good to be a backup, you trade him and get something else for him. So, at this stage of their careers — Rui is two years in; Deni is one year in; Wagner is coming from the draft — you play it and see who are the best two and you go with them. And the third is maybe a solid backup or you trade him or whatever. …

Rui came earliest, so he’s kinda ahead of everybody in that sense, but I don’t think people look at him as, ‘Alright, for the next seven years, he’s starting at the 4 for the Wizards.’ He showed some glimpses. He showed he can help and be part of the team, but it’s not like, ‘Alright, we’ve figured out the 4 position. We don’t need to care about anyone else.’ He’s not there yet. So yeah, take another guy you like with his skill set and kinda figure it out and see what the best pair is. And again, if someone can figure out an extra position, then you can play them.

Kai Jones
6-foot-11 big | 19 years old | Texas

2020-21 stats: 8.8 ppg., 4.8 rpg., 0.9 bpg., 64 percent on 2s

Vecenie’s Draft Positioning: No. 16 to the Thunder

Lots of young bigs have foul problems, and Jones was obviously one of them. Can he outgrow it? And if he does, is he worth a middling first-round pick?

He is a high-risk, high-reward kind of pick. That’s the range where those guys usually go. (He has) too many question marks to go high in the lottery but at the same time, there’s a lot of promise, a lot of upside that you kinda wanna take a swing at that position. Not to make the exact comparison to the players, but that’s where you take Michael Porter Jr. That’s where you take Giannis (Antetokounmpo). That’s where you take players with a high, high ceiling that still have question marks. You mention the foul trouble as one of them, but I don’t think that’s the only one with him. I think there are a lot of questions.

He plays hard. He’s a great athlete. He needs to figure out his position. He showed some glimpses of shooting, but it’s not a tool yet. There’s so much to figure out as far as basketball IQ and getting experience and all these things. I think he’s gonna spend the first year developing that. But some teams look at the high-risk, high-reward kinda picks. You need to like him to go for him, but if you like him, that’s a solid pick. Those are the guys that you take at No. 15. Some teams will just look at him and say, ‘Nah, he’s too far away. I don’t think he’s gonna figure it out.’ But if you do like him, if you are intrigued by him, that’s the range where you take those guys.

Chris Duarte
6-foot-6 wing | 24 years old | Oregon

2020-21 stats: 17.1 ppg., 4.6 rpg., 2.7 apg., 53-42-81 shooting line

Vecenie’s Draft Positioning: No. 22 to the Lakers

Duarte is the oldest prospect in the Wizards’ draft range, a good defender and shot it well from 3. Of the wings in that range, do you believe he is the one who is the most likely to help you as a rookie?

It’s probably him and Kispert. … If you’re looking for someone to help right now, those are the two guys you’re looking at. There are not a lot of examples of guys that made the pros at 24 and figured it out. … (Suns forward) Cameron Johnson was 23. But yeah, if you’re looking for someone to help you right away, and I think people are pretty comfortable with Duarte’s shooting — he’s the kinda guy who can fit in a system, especially with Russ and Beal. They need someone who can just knock down shots and all that. He’s probably one of the safest bets in this draft in that sense.

Is there any worry with his production coming against players who he’s two, three, four or, in some cases, five years older than?

Yeah, you worry about that, for sure. It’s not a fair playground, in a way. Body-wise — not that he’s super big or super strong, but the age difference can’t be ignored. When you’re playing against guys who are five years younger, you’re gonna have some advantage, for sure. And now, you’re gonna jump into a situation where that advantage is gone in a heartbeat. It was an advantage every night, and now you’re stepping into somewhere where nobody cares about it anymore.

If he was 18, 19, he would be far more intriguing, but on the plus side, if you want someone that is mentally the readiest or his body is ready and experience is ready and all that, that’s him and Kispert. Those are the safest bets. You always have guys who are 19, 20 who step in and figure it out quite quickly, even outside of the top picks. But we’re talking about the safe pick and someone you can feel comfortable is helping right off the bat, and he could potentially help you.

[NatP4]

Springer is a lock to be a good pro. He’s drawing tons of free throws, playing elite defense, and shooting the 3 at a high% as an 18 year old in college basketball. Super impressive. Has all the intangibles. He’s one of those grit and grind Grizzlies players from the last 10 years.

Would still rank him below Wagner and Giddey

[NatP4]

I can’t get behind the Cooper hype on this board. I’m just not seeing it yet for whatever reason.