Jonathan Kuminga...Beast or Bust?

[NO-KG-AI]

I still dont think it's guaranteed he gets past 3. I can see both Cavs or Raps taking him, tbh. Suggs/Green for me, personally, but there's a lot to like with Kuminga. There's not many guys with his physical profile with good mobility and already decent skillsets at 18. If he impresses in workouts and interviews, i can see Cavs or Raps falling in love.

I think the chances that he goes before 5 are less than 1%.

Feels exactly like the type of player GM's fall in love with. Supreme athlete with size and length and a great form on his jumper. Dont think he gets taken in front of Cade/Green, but i wouldnt put it past Cleveland to phuck it up and take him over Mobley

Hmm. I just don’t see a supreme athlete. I don’t think he stands out as a physical specimen compared to Mobley and Suggs to make up for the skill gap. He’s a plus athlete with great size though.

[DCasey91]

He’s the big swing pick for me. I do like him a lot.
Very very young and comes from wonderful genetic stock.

Athletically he’s very functional for a wing (Wiggins can jump high but he’s very stiff). I mean Jaylen Brown esque is not out the question here.

He’s the most underrated out of the five but also needs the most upskill development imo.

Also he’s not as raw as the stats would suggest.

I’m very like lukewarm on this draft so a 5th project pick for a potential high level wing doesn’t sound farfetched to me.

I mean personally I don’t think you’re missing out on much outside of the top 4 but that’s just me.

[crows2]

As far as taking him at pick 5, I think it's nearly a no-brainer. Basketball-wise he's absolutely a top 5 prospect in this year's draft. My only question mark on him is his personality/mentality. I seem to remember reading some negative things about him (probably on here) last year, but haven't heard much else. The only thing that'd make me question him at 5 is if any major red-flags surface during interviews.

I'm surprised you say that, because there was a little documentary on some of the Ignite players that focused mostly on him, and he came across as such a great kid.

The only things I’ve heard were from last year before he joined Ignite, so no idea whether they were true or even apply anymore. Since Ignite, some journalists think that Brian Shaw has been more effusive in his praise of Green than Kuminga, and have extrapolated that to mean that Kuminga may not be a dream to coach, but they’re probably reading too much into it anyway.

[Brofessor24]

I would definitely take him before Scottie Barnes (who is becoming pretty overrated lately).

[DCasey91]

Well there was a big difference between Kuminga and Green (That’s how high I rate him).

Every prospect is young so they can look bad/poor or quiet games.

Thing that stood out was the class between the two.

Kuminga was inconsistent on his flashes. Like one moment excellent pass in a pnr play, then later on in the game it’s like he forgot how to basketball. Like just he stood there and didn’t know the next move and passed it poorly. He’s weird like that.

I think it’s the basketball IQ, Green even now has a very good base to work from. Whereas Kuminga needs time.

Green pretty much showed me the “special stuff”every night regardless of stats or performance.

[Stillwater]

a part of me wants to hate his game because of the bricks he was chucking late in the gl season, but I think if he at least shows orgs in the high lottery the incentive to work hard and play smarter he is absolutely a mvp level upside prospect with that body and current baseline skill. The fact he speaks multiple languages fluently and shot better in workout settings at least gives me hope there wont be a slow learning curve,.

[ThunderBolt]

I would definitely take him before Scottie Barnes (who is becoming pretty overrated lately).

It seems like the shift between he and Barnes has become much greater since both guys quit playing for the season, which makes me question it a bit.

[yoyoboy]

I would definitely take him before Scottie Barnes (who is becoming pretty overrated lately).

Barnes is better at virtually everything on a basketball court and is listed behind Kuminga in most mocks yet he’s the overrated one?

[Stillwater]

Barnes is definitely underrated some still because of the lack of shooting concern ,but I dont see much separation at all between him and Kuminga in a couple seasons outside Barnes being a smarter player at this stage of his journey as a prospect.
Kuminga is smart as f no way he does not pick up the pro game quick

[tiderulz]

my problem, Kuminga could just as easily become MKG, Stanley Johnson, Jarrett Culver, etc if he cant learn to shoot. He hasnt shown to be a good defender either. We are just relying on body type and athleticism. People will always point to Giannis and what he has become, but for every Giannis isnt there like 10-12 that didnt develop?

[Brick Layer]

my problem, Kuminga could just as easily become MKG, Stanley Johnson, Jarrett Culver, etc if he cant learn to shoot. He hasnt shown to be a good defender either. We are just relying on body type and athleticism. People will always point to Giannis and what he has become, but for every Giannis isnt there like 10-12 that didnt develop?

Kuminga is exactly the type of long athletic player with undeveloped potential that always seems to be what attracts Orlando's FO.

[tiderulz]

my problem, Kuminga could just as easily become MKG, Stanley Johnson, Jarrett Culver, etc if he cant learn to shoot. He hasnt shown to be a good defender either. We are just relying on body type and athleticism. People will always point to Giannis and what he has become, but for every Giannis isnt there like 10-12 that didnt develop?

Kuminga is exactly the type of long athletic player with undeveloped potential that the Orlando front office has always coveted.

6'7 with 6'11ish wingspan. we traded that away in Gordon. we have that already in Chuma. he has high bust potential. if he cant shoot, and there is no guarantee that he can, he is just an athletic guy now going up against much better talent than the G League

[Brick Layer]

my problem, Kuminga could just as easily become MKG, Stanley Johnson, Jarrett Culver, etc if he cant learn to shoot. He hasnt shown to be a good defender either. We are just relying on body type and athleticism. People will always point to Giannis and what he has become, but for every Giannis isnt there like 10-12 that didnt develop?

Kuminga is exactly the type of long athletic player with undeveloped potential that always seems to be what attracts Orlando's FO.

6'7 with 6'11ish wingspan. we traded that away in Gordon. we have that already in Chuma. he has high bust potential. if he cant shoot, and there is no guarantee that he can, he is just an athletic guy now going up against much better talent than the G League

Jimmer Fredette was an incredible shooter but just being able to shoot the ball doesn't guarantee success in the NBA. Defense wins championship which is why I always wanted for my favorite teams to avoid players like Vuc at any cost. Look what Vuc has done for Chicago just since the trade deadline. Bulls fans are already looking to dump him because he does not provide any rim protection.

[tiderulz]

Kuminga is exactly the type of long athletic player with undeveloped potential that always seems to be what attracts Orlando's FO.

6'7 with 6'11ish wingspan. we traded that away in Gordon. we have that already in Chuma. he has high bust potential. if he cant shoot, and there is no guarantee that he can, he is just an athletic guy now going up against much better talent than the G League

Jimmer Fredette was an incredible shooter but just being able to shoot the ball doesn't guarantee success in the NBA. Defense wins championship which is why I always wanted for my favorite teams to avoid players like Vuc at any cost. Look what Vuc has done for Chicago just since the trade deadline. Bulls fans are already looking to dump him because he does not provide any rim protection.

Lavine was also hurt and they need to build the team with issues in mind. be interesting to see what Chicago does in the off season.

mentioning defense, Kuminga also isnt good at defense. If we dont care about shooting and only defense, Barnes would be the pick. But it was defense that propelled the teams into the finals, it was their offenses.

[Brick Layer]

Jimmer Fredette was an incredible shooter but just being able to shoot the ball doesn't guarantee success in the NBA. Defense wins championship which is why I always wanted for my favorite teams to avoid players like Vuc at any cost. Look what Vuc has done for Chicago just since the trade deadline. Bulls fans are already looking to dump him because he does not provide any rim protection.

Lavine was also hurt and they need to build the team with issues in mind. be interesting to see what Chicago does in the off season.

mentioning defense, Kuminga also isnt good at defense. If we dont care about shooting and only defense, Barnes would be the pick. But it was defense that propelled the teams into the finals, it was their offenses.

I think two way players are much more valuable than one dimensional players. But unfortunately scoring always seems to be the measuring stick most fans focus on. Currently Barnes isn't a great scorer but can do everything else fairly well. The real question is can Barnes' shooting be developed enough over time to match the level of his defense? If the answer is yes Orlando should grab him at 5. But if the answer is no then the Magic may have to take their chances with Kuminga at 5 and hope for the best. Then at 8 the Magic will be in great position to grab a player from a very good second tier of prospects which runs to about pick 15. The good news is Orlando's early into their rebuild. There should be plenty of PT for young players develop into the best NBA players possible

[DCasey91]

Take away Barnes’s right side to the rim and he literally has no scoring option. Defense and facilitating aside he has a long long way to go offensively.

He also cannot shoot no matter which way you try to describe it.

Kuminga needs to work on his shot and shot selection. His IQ is abit raw to me imo. At times he looks like a surefire top 5 pick other times not so much. Kind of like Garuba in the top ten.

But it’s not like picks 4-10 don’t come with serious added wrench time.

Kuminga, Barnes, Johnson 2x, Garuba, Giddey, Williams. They all need serious hours of upskill. The likelihood of all of them reaching it is 0%.

But there is Jaylen Brown as the measuring stick for him.

[DCasey91]

Barnes is definitely underrated some still because of the lack of shooting concern ,but I dont see much separation at all between him and Kuminga in a couple seasons outside Barnes being a smarter player at this stage of his journey as a prospect.
Kuminga is smart as f no way he does not pick up the pro game quick

Being generally smart and having IQ for the game are not mutually exclusive trust me on that.

You’d actually be surprised on that.

Intellectuals vs naturally god given ability. There’s examples of both either way.

[Brick Layer]

Take away Barnes’s right side to the rim and he literally has no scoring option. Defense and facilitating aside he has a long long way to go offensively.

He also cannot shoot no matter which way you try to describe it.

Kuminga needs to work on his shot and shot selection. His IQ is abit raw to me imo. At times he looks like a surefire top 5 pick other times not so much. Kind of like Garuba in the top ten.

But it’s not like picks 4-10 don’t come with serious added wrench time.

Kuminga, Barnes, Johnson 2x, Garuba, Giddey, Williams. They all need serious hours of upskill. The likelihood of all of them reaching it is 0%.

But there is Jaylen Brown as the measuring stick for him.

There is no question that the draft is a crapshoot. Sometime you just have to get lucky regardless of which prospect you pick. I remember watching Draymond Green in summer league right after he was drafted in the 2nd round. I thought he was a classic tweener whose skills could not possibly translate to the NBA game. Obviously I was way way off base about Draymond Green.

[DCasey91]

Take away Barnes’s right side to the rim and he literally has no scoring option. Defense and facilitating aside he has a long long way to go offensively.

He also cannot shoot no matter which way you try to describe it.

Kuminga needs to work on his shot and shot selection. His IQ is abit raw to me imo. At times he looks like a surefire top 5 pick other times not so much. Kind of like Garuba in the top ten.

But it’s not like picks 4-10 don’t come with serious added wrench time.

Kuminga, Barnes, Johnson 2x, Garuba, Giddey, Williams. They all need serious hours of upskill. The likelihood of all of them reaching it is 0%.

But there is Jaylen Brown as the measuring stick for him.

There is no question that the draft is a crapshoot. Sometime you just have to get lucky regardless of which prospect you pick. I remember watching Draymond Green in summer league right after he was drafted in the 2nd round. I thought he was a classic tweener whose skills could not possibly translate to the NBA game. Obviously I was way way off base about Draymond Green.

You can look at everything imaginable under the sun. Heck Butler came from nowhere so did Vanvleet. Embiid was literally plucked because he’s a savant (it’s not like people can learn to shoot from YouTube and be 80% FT shooter for a huge elite two way Big Man, it just doesn’t happen.)

Elite naturally talented/advantage but lack of work ethic or mentality - Across all sports still a good player or straight up star but even so underachieves. Marat Safin, Ben Simmons etc.

Some advantages , huge groundbreaking work
ethic definition of a junkyard eats last and dies dog attitude - Draymond, Lleyton Hewitt, Butler, all three legit got every ounce of ability out they could muster and then some.

Freak talent, Freak work ethic.
Gretzky, Woods, Ronaldo, Phelps etc. Basically World Breakers.

At the end of the day the door is naturally closed or open with talent or ability no matter how big or small it opens the door. Elite sports is very exclusive on that front. The door is always closed for a ton of people that’s just how it is. That’s reality

After that it’s up to the individual to get to that hypothetical ceiling after the door is naturally opened from the beginning.

No one can measure the heart and what goes on between the ears.

[tidho]

Edwards is much more skilled than kuminga. If you watched him from the aau circuits you could tell even back then he could really handle, slice to the rim, and shoot the rock and that carried over to Georgia as well.. he wasn't just an uber athlete and straight line driver he knew how to change speed/direction euro step going full speed.

Yeah I don't understand the comparison here. Edwards' shooting was lacking but he was still much less raw overall than Kuminga is, and he's built like an oversized runningback. And I hate to bring this up, but it's important to note that Kuminga was born in the Democratic Republic of the Congo where just 25% of kids are born with birth certificates. It's not out of the question that a guy like Kuminga could be a year or two older than his listed age, and around the time he came over to the US a few years ago, he would've been advised to lie about his age to maximize his odds of being drafted. It's just the smart thing to do. And for a guy who's as raw in development right now as he is, a year or two makes an enormous difference in terms of his potential. I would say each additional year older would drop him 10-15 spots.

People might get upset at that and be willing to take Kuminga's team at their word, but these are things you have to consider if you're going to invest $20-25 million into a player to be a major part of your franchise going forward. Even if we have no reason to doubt his age though, I'm still personally not taking him in the top 10 because I just think generally the unpolished athletes in a similar vein to him tend to bust.

If he's a whole year older than advertised, he's still younger than Mobley, Suggs, and Cade, and over the years I've come to accept that how new to the game someone is plays a role as well as their age - Siakam came into the league at 22 and improved as much as anyone ever has, and even Embiid was relatively old for a freshman.

Even the seemingly bad comparisons to like Wiggins or Jeff Green ignore that the current league environment is much friendlier to that kind of player where they're more likely to be playing 4 or 5 and taking advantage of mismatches than being miscast as a perimeter shot creator next to bigger players who clog the paint even more. Even if you're low on Kuminga's perimeter shot when he was injured for much of his junior year of high school and then went straight from that to shooting from the NBA line against pros, I'd say he clearly has the frame and the rim protection instincts where I'd be comfortable with him as the biggest player in a 5-out lineup.

i do like that we have to create ghost stories to really invalidate him, lol. i agree that he could go as early as 3, and if Green is gone i'd be looking at Kuminga long and hard if i'm CLE.

i disagree on the big man in a small ball lineup take. he's a SF, and a prototypically sized one at that. guys that are the right size for the position they're supposed to be playing are somehow undervalued because teams have gotten away with doing something different. MIL, ATL, LAC, PHO...with maybe a singular exception those teams have lineups of guys the right size for their position. Kuminga is a SF.

the funny thing about the age 'risk' is that it doesn't even matter. that matters when you're counting on additional physical development (like Mobley filling out), with Kuminga you don't need any. its already known that he hasn't been playing basketball all his life, so i guess that could be the real coupe - he played under an assumed name at a Detroit high school from 2013-16?, lol.