The Case for Drafting 2 Pure Shooters

[orthoman]

Was wondering what the Forum thinks here...

I have been reading quite a bit about the Forum's concern over Kumingas' and Barnes' shooting from 3 pt. range. While both
of these players are great athletes, both remind me of Aaron Gordon, who was also drafted largely as he was athletic.

The Magic have suffered for years for lack of shooting.

That being said, why doesn't the Team draft 2 of the best pure shooters that are available, such as Bouknight and another pure shooter. Anything wrong about this approach?

[pepe1991]

There are few things that should be separated.

Being spot up shooter isn't that valuable as being ballhandler who can shoot.

It's all about gravity.

Doncic and Harden are not some epic 3 point shooters.
You can argue Trae Young nor ( career 34,2%, 31% in playoffs ) Booker 35,2% for 3 for career are.
But nobody leaves them wide open because everybody knows they can make shots, if you give them too much space.

Orlando needs somebody to provide much needed gravity that will take pressure off other limited offensive players.
Drafting 2 pure shooters still won't help their defense offense ( had brain fart while typing ) ,and defense will keep collapsing on shooters and their percentages will be crap.

[Knightro]

Was wondering what the Forum thinks here...

I have been reading quite a bit about the Forum's concern over Kumingas' and Barnes' shooting from 3 pt. range. While both
of these players are great athletes, both remind me of Aaron Gordon, who was also drafted largely as he was athletic.

The Magic have suffered for years for lack of shooting.

That being said, why doesn't the Team draft 2 of the best pure shooters that are available, such as Bouknight and another pure shooter. Anything wrong about this approach?

You probably should have said “I hope they draft guys I believe can score” instead of dressing this up as a pure shooting argument considering Bouknight was under 30% from three this year.

You throw in the year before and he’s barely 32%.

I understand people want to believe in his form, but suggesting he’s some pure shooter is just silly to me.

He can score the ball, but he’s never shot it particularly well at any point nor has been efficient as a shooter.

[Knightro]

There are few things that should be separated.

Being spot up shooter isn't that valuable as being ballhandler who can shoot.

It's all about gravity.

Doncic and Harden are not some epic 3 point shooters.
You can argue Trae Young nor ( career 34,2%, 31% in playoffs ) Booker 35,2% for 3 for career are.
But nobody leaves them wide open because everybody knows they can make shots, if you give them too much space.

Orlando needs somebody to provide much needed gravity that will take pressure off other limited offensive players.
Drafting 2 pure shooters still won't help their defense offense ( had brain fart while typing ) ,and defense will keep collapsing on shooters and their percentages will be crap.

Totally agree with this.

I don’t necessarily think gravity is limited to one type of skill set, but the key is being able to pull additional defenders away from their original assignment with whatever it is you do well.

That can be passing, ball handling, rim running, cutting, off ball movement.

Obviously the most valuable skill set in terms of gravity is someone who can get to any spot on the floor they want to get to with the ball in their hands and then either score when there’s no/poor help or hit open teammates for easy shots with the passing if there’s proper help.

The Magic lack gravity in a big way and have for a long time.

[jonbob17]

The only case for drafting 2 pure shooters at 5 and 8 is to appease half of the fanbase. Battered Magic fans that had to cope with AG and company for so long are the only ones who want high-end shooters (only). I get it, it's a gut-punch to watch Fultz clank a wide-open three.

We need basketball players with elite skills, notice that word is plural. Players that get open looks for guys, and create for themselves and others. An average shooter should be able to knock down more open looks than an above average shooter can knock down contested looks.

Every year it is the same thing. "if we pass on Nesmith, I am done with the Magic. Kispert is going to be a stud."
Don't worry, AG isn't in this draft. Neither is Elfrid. Rob Hennigan is in OKC. We will be alright by choosing the best basketball player available.

[orthoman]

Understood!

Then Nitro, who would you pick at #5 and #8 (assuming no trades/expected top 4 are gone)?

And, can you give us the specific reasons for your picks?

Thanks

[Skybox]

I'm all for drafting a "Pure Shooter" at 8, #5 is too big an opportunity to draft for anything but star ceiling (likely Kuminga).

Picking up a LEGIT shooter (NOT a guy who might someday be able to shoot based on blah blah) would accelerate the rest of the young talent we have. An honest to goodness, move without the ball, 40% plus from 3 at high volume for his career guy would be an absolute win at 8. Defense, ball movement, BBIQ also nice...Kispert, Moody are those guys. I could be talked into a "pure scorer" like Bouknight but assuming #5 is Kuminga (or one of the top 4 who drop), I really like a solid ready to shoot TODAY guy-even if his upside isn't as high as Jalen Johnson or Keon Johnson, etc...time to start building a team.

[basketballRob]

I'm all for drafting a "Pure Shooter" at 8, #5 is too big an opportunity to draft for anything but star ceiling (likely Kuminga).

Picking up a LEGIT shooter (NOT a guy who might someday be able to shoot based on blah blah) would accelerate the rest of the young talent we have. An honest to goodness, move without the ball, 40% plus from 3 at high volume for his career guy would be an absolute win at 8. Defense, ball movement, BBIQ also nice...Kispert, Moody are those guys. I could be talked into a "pure scorer" like Bouknight but assuming #5 is Kuminga (or one of the top 4 who drop), I really like a solid ready to shoot TODAY guy-even if his upside isn't as high as Jalen Johnson or Keon Johnson, etc...time to start building a team.

Keon improved his shooting as the season went on.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[tiderulz]

The only case for drafting 2 pure shooters at 5 and 8 is to appease half of the fanbase. Battered Magic fans that had to cope with AG and company for so long are the only ones who want high-end shooters (only). I get it, it's a gut-punch to watch Fultz clank a wide-open three.

We need basketball players with elite skills, notice that word is plural. Players that get open looks for guys, and create for themselves and others. An average shooter should be able to knock down more open looks than an above average shooter can knock down contested looks.

Every year it is the same thing. "if we pass on Nesmith, I am done with the Magic. Kispert is going to be a stud."
Don't worry, AG isn't in this draft. Neither is Elfrid. Rob Hennigan is in OKC. We will be alright by choosing the best basketball player available.

i see quite a few "AG's" in this draft. Athletic 6'8ish players that cant shoot.

[Skybox]

I'm all for drafting a "Pure Shooter" at 8, #5 is too big an opportunity to draft for anything but star ceiling (likely Kuminga).

Picking up a LEGIT shooter (NOT a guy who might someday be able to shoot based on blah blah) would accelerate the rest of the young talent we have. An honest to goodness, move without the ball, 40% plus from 3 at high volume for his career guy would be an absolute win at 8. Defense, ball movement, BBIQ also nice...Kispert, Moody are those guys. I could be talked into a "pure scorer" like Bouknight but assuming #5 is Kuminga (or one of the top 4 who drop), I really like a solid ready to shoot TODAY guy-even if his upside isn't as high as Jalen Johnson or Keon Johnson, etc...time to start building a team.

Keon improved his shooting as the season went on.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

he may one day be the best player in the draft (MAY)...give me a REAL proven shooter at 8. Everyone in the draft can show some hope of being a shooter...just like Fultz, Hampton, Carter, Isaac, AG, Bamba-do I need to go on? Reddick, Korver, Harris, McBuckets, Duncan Robinson, Ingles will always have a place on a good team if they're smart, know how to move and get shots off, and actually make them.

Kispert's age is a ridiculous concern- he won't be retiring anytime soon. He already has the skills and the body everyone is projecting/hoping/praying/lying to themselves about most others. I accept the ceiling although I think it's higher than most of you.

[tiderulz]

I'm all for drafting a "Pure Shooter" at 8, #5 is too big an opportunity to draft for anything but star ceiling (likely Kuminga).

Picking up a LEGIT shooter (NOT a guy who might someday be able to shoot based on blah blah) would accelerate the rest of the young talent we have. An honest to goodness, move without the ball, 40% plus from 3 at high volume for his career guy would be an absolute win at 8. Defense, ball movement, BBIQ also nice...Kispert, Moody are those guys. I could be talked into a "pure scorer" like Bouknight but assuming #5 is Kuminga (or one of the top 4 who drop), I really like a solid ready to shoot TODAY guy-even if his upside isn't as high as Jalen Johnson or Keon Johnson, etc...time to start building a team.

Orlando drafted Tyler Harvey in the 2nd round. 43% from 3 for 3 years on 7 attempts a game, led Division 1 in scoring, 6'4. never cracked an NBA roster. He was the 3rd leading scorer in the Australia Basketball league last year. just being a good shooter doesnt get it done.

for me, who knows when we could have 2 top-10 picks again. I swing for the fences on players right now. you can always find a "shooter".

but im also scared about drafting players that cant shoot and dont really have any developed or refined skills and we have to pin our hopes that they will find these skills they havent shown in years.

[Skybox]

The only case for drafting 2 pure shooters at 5 and 8 is to appease half of the fanbase. Battered Magic fans that had to cope with AG and company for so long are the only ones who want high-end shooters (only). I get it, it's a gut-punch to watch Fultz clank a wide-open three.

We need basketball players with elite skills, notice that word is plural. Players that get open looks for guys, and create for themselves and others. An average shooter should be able to knock down more open looks than an above average shooter can knock down contested looks.

Every year it is the same thing. "if we pass on Nesmith, I am done with the Magic. Kispert is going to be a stud."
Don't worry, AG isn't in this draft. Neither is Elfrid. Rob Hennigan is in OKC. We will be alright by choosing the best basketball player available.

i see quite a few "AG's" in this draft. Athletic 6'8ish players that cant shoot.

For all of the villainizing of AG...we've got a handful of "AG's" on our current roster already.

[Magic Mops]

I'm all for drafting a "Pure Shooter" at 8, #5 is too big an opportunity to draft for anything but star ceiling (likely Kuminga).

Picking up a LEGIT shooter (NOT a guy who might someday be able to shoot based on blah blah) would accelerate the rest of the young talent we have. An honest to goodness, move without the ball, 40% plus from 3 at high volume for his career guy would be an absolute win at 8. Defense, ball movement, BBIQ also nice...Kispert, Moody are those guys. I could be talked into a "pure scorer" like Bouknight but assuming #5 is Kuminga (or one of the top 4 who drop), I really like a solid ready to shoot TODAY guy-even if his upside isn't as high as Jalen Johnson or Keon Johnson, etc...time to start building a team.

I agree

[Skybox]

I'm all for drafting a "Pure Shooter" at 8, #5 is too big an opportunity to draft for anything but star ceiling (likely Kuminga).

Picking up a LEGIT shooter (NOT a guy who might someday be able to shoot based on blah blah) would accelerate the rest of the young talent we have. An honest to goodness, move without the ball, 40% plus from 3 at high volume for his career guy would be an absolute win at 8. Defense, ball movement, BBIQ also nice...Kispert, Moody are those guys. I could be talked into a "pure scorer" like Bouknight but assuming #5 is Kuminga (or one of the top 4 who drop), I really like a solid ready to shoot TODAY guy-even if his upside isn't as high as Jalen Johnson or Keon Johnson, etc...time to start building a team.

Orlando drafted Tyler Harvey in the 2nd round. 43% from 3 for 3 years on 7 attempts a game. never cracked an NBA roster. He was the 3rd leading scorer in the Australia Basketball league last year. just being a good shooter doesnt get it done.

for me, who knows when we could have 2 top-10 picks again. I swing for the fences on players right now. you can always find a "shooter".

but im also scared about drafting players that cant shoot and dont really have any developed or refined skills and we have to pin our hopes that they will find these skills they havent shown in years.

Thanks for the obscure reference. We drafted JJ Reddick too.

[tiderulz]

I'm all for drafting a "Pure Shooter" at 8, #5 is too big an opportunity to draft for anything but star ceiling (likely Kuminga).

Picking up a LEGIT shooter (NOT a guy who might someday be able to shoot based on blah blah) would accelerate the rest of the young talent we have. An honest to goodness, move without the ball, 40% plus from 3 at high volume for his career guy would be an absolute win at 8. Defense, ball movement, BBIQ also nice...Kispert, Moody are those guys. I could be talked into a "pure scorer" like Bouknight but assuming #5 is Kuminga (or one of the top 4 who drop), I really like a solid ready to shoot TODAY guy-even if his upside isn't as high as Jalen Johnson or Keon Johnson, etc...time to start building a team.

Orlando drafted Tyler Harvey in the 2nd round. 43% from 3 for 3 years on 7 attempts a game. never cracked an NBA roster. He was the 3rd leading scorer in the Australia Basketball league last year. just being a good shooter doesnt get it done.

for me, who knows when we could have 2 top-10 picks again. I swing for the fences on players right now. you can always find a "shooter".

but im also scared about drafting players that cant shoot and dont really have any developed or refined skills and we have to pin our hopes that they will find these skills they havent shown in years.

Thanks for the obscure reference. We drafted JJ Reddick too.

Im just saying, just being a LEGIT shooter isnt enough. and it doesnt automatically accelerate the rest of the talent we have. and those guys many times have a hard time finding a place in the league and making a roster. McBuckets, Adam Morrison, etc, etc.

[yoyojw17]

There are few things that should be separated.

Being spot up shooter isn't that valuable as being ballhandler who can shoot.

It's all about gravity.

Doncic and Harden are not some epic 3 point shooters.
You can argue Trae Young nor ( career 34,2%, 31% in playoffs ) Booker 35,2% for 3 for career are.
But nobody leaves them wide open because everybody knows they can make shots, if you give them too much space.

Orlando needs somebody to provide much needed gravity that will take pressure off other limited offensive players.
Drafting 2 pure shooters still won't help their defense offense ( had brain fart while typing ) ,and defense will keep collapsing on shooters and their percentages will be crap.

Totally agree with this.

I don’t necessarily think gravity is limited to one type of skill set, but the key is being able to pull additional defenders away from their original assignment with whatever it is you do well.

That can be passing, ball handling, rim running, cutting, off ball movement.

Obviously the most valuable skill set in terms of gravity is someone who can get to any spot on the floor they want to get to with the ball in their hands and then either score when there’s no/poor help or hit open teammates for easy shots with the passing if there’s proper help.

The Magic lack gravity in a big way and have for a long time.

Agreed. Everyone can produce their own gravity if they are great at something. If you're a post player and you're getting a double all the time... If you end up with everyone standing around and you take a turn around jumper with two men on you... that's a waste of gravity. If you have players that are always will to cut behind the defense... then ones gravity is used appropriately and the offense becomes more unpredictable for the future... creating more options.

[jonbob17]

The only case for drafting 2 pure shooters at 5 and 8 is to appease half of the fanbase. Battered Magic fans that had to cope with AG and company for so long are the only ones who want high-end shooters (only). I get it, it's a gut-punch to watch Fultz clank a wide-open three.

We need basketball players with elite skills, notice that word is plural. Players that get open looks for guys, and create for themselves and others. An average shooter should be able to knock down more open looks than an above average shooter can knock down contested looks.

Every year it is the same thing. "if we pass on Nesmith, I am done with the Magic. Kispert is going to be a stud."
Don't worry, AG isn't in this draft. Neither is Elfrid. Rob Hennigan is in OKC. We will be alright by choosing the best basketball player available.

i see quite a few "AG's" in this draft. Athletic 6'8ish players that cant shoot.

Sure they may have similar size and attributes, but just because AG never became a good shooter doesn't mean these guys won't. Let's not forget that AG was a 42% FT shooter in college on 5 FTs a game. He didn't have any touch.

The point is Aaron Gordon is not in this draft it is young kids with different goals and drive than him. Maybe they make it maybe they won't but we shouldn't hold AG's failures against them. Maybe the likelihood of improvement, but that's not AG alone it's the history of young NBA players.

[drsd]

Green could slide to #5 and Moody at #8 makes sense with or without Green so yes there is a case for two shooters being drafted.
But let's take this to three, at #33 the Magic could consider Isaiah Livers. The kid is automatic as a jump shooter.

[fendilim]

The Gordon and Kuminga comparison is interesting both in the sense that they seem to have high potential coming into the draft.

I would say the difference between both are their skillset heading in. Kuminga already has the footwork and has shown flashes to be a capable scorer before the draft.

Gordon… never mind.


This team need shooters, but more important is to have at least one scorer. Especially with how the game has evolved today, you need as much scorers as possible. Shooters are dime a dozen.

[89Magicfan]

The Gordon and Kuminga comparison is interesting both in the sense that they seem to have high potential coming into the draft.

I would say the difference between both are their skillset heading in. Kuminga already has the footwork and has shown flashes to be a capable scorer before the draft.

Gordon… never mind.


This team need shooters, but more important is to have at least one scorer. Especially with how the game has evolved today, you need as much scorers as possible. Shooters are dime a dozen.

When I watch Kuminga, feels like I’m watching Stanley Johnson.