2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[Slim Charless]

Saric's issue seems to be mental. He lacks confidence. I don't know what team would be particularly interested in him, though his deal isn't too bad for what he gives you. The big reason I don't see a trade materializing is that we need him. He's our only capable bench big ATM. And when he's on, he's useful as a scorer, passer, shooter, who gives you some toughness as well, decent defender against heavy plodders like Val. I think Robin Lopez might actually be a better player and can be had cheap, but he doesn't give you another look - just a lesser Ayton.

So if you trade Saric, you're probably taking on another guy who's struggled. And maybe a guy like Josh Richardson (whom others have mentioned) can step in for Torrey Craig if he walks. So I'm not saying a deal isn't possible, it's just that his trade value probably isn't significant and he's a rotation guy who has chemistry with this squad, so you'd not only need to replace him but you're unlikely to get much value in return, and you'd likely lose a couple more games just finding rhythm/chemistry with the new guy. I'm sure a trade could be done, I just doubt whether there's a deal out there that improves us.

Something I proposed previously in terms of Saric is:
Saric, #29 and Carter to Chicago
Markkanen S/T ~$14m to Phoenix

Money is essentially a wash, but Chicago gets some decent assets for Markkanen, including a first. Carter seems to fit the mold of the guards Chicago likes (tough and gritty, even if not the most skilled), and is probably an upgrade over Arcidiacono, who they could decline their $3m option on. Saric is serviceable rotation big man, and could replace some of what Markkanen does in terms of floor spacing.

From the Suns POV, Markkanen is an overall better player with a higher ceiling than Saric. He's not a great defender, but is a good offensive weapon, has more size and is a much more efficient shooter and scorer.

Markkanen's not a good fit for us. Inconsistent, soft, probably still eyes a starting role. You can't slide him over to C, which means he's gotta be taking minutes from Cam Jo and Crowder. No thanks.

Not to mention he has to be paid as well. So now we have DA, Book, CP3, Bridges AND Lauri. There's no way. It wouldn't happen. Not to mention it pushes both Jae and Stix further down the bench.

If we trade those 2 it needs to be someone already on a deal. Nurk or someone similar would work.

[BobbieL]

Something I proposed previously in terms of Saric is:
Saric, #29 and Carter to Chicago
Markkanen S/T ~$14m to Phoenix

Money is essentially a wash, but Chicago gets some decent assets for Markkanen, including a first. Carter seems to fit the mold of the guards Chicago likes (tough and gritty, even if not the most skilled), and is probably an upgrade over Arcidiacono, who they could decline their $3m option on. Saric is serviceable rotation big man, and could replace some of what Markkanen does in terms of floor spacing.

From the Suns POV, Markkanen is an overall better player with a higher ceiling than Saric. He's not a great defender, but is a good offensive weapon, has more size and is a much more efficient shooter and scorer.

Markkanen's not a good fit for us. Inconsistent, soft, probably still eyes a starting role. You can't slide him over to C, which means he's gotta be taking minutes from Cam Jo and Crowder. No thanks.

Not to mention he has to be paid as well. So now we have DA, Book, CP3, Bridges AND Lauri. There's no way. It wouldn't happen. Not to mention it pushes both Jae and Stix further down the bench.

If we trade those 2 it needs to be someone already on a deal. Nurk or someone similar would work.

Nurkic - intersting name. Only $4m is expiring but I am sure the Suns would pick up the option since its only $12m

Blazers need to change their roster as what they have is not working and Lillard - if he is around will want change. I get Saric and Carter would be the smaller moves that Olshey makes but thats a name I had not thought it.

[NapoleonII]

Let's say Bagley pulls a Bledsoe on Twitter:

"I don't want to be here."

What would it take to pry him and unite him with Booker/Bridges/Ayton and CP3? I think he'd look a hell of a lot better as a 4th-5th option, Chris Bosh-esque.

[bwgood77]

I suspect you're right but not because we won't offer him a fair deal. Someone will absolutely overpay him. And he'll be gone. A trade for a top 7 pick and a decent 3+d guy now may be prudent if you can't extend him this summer. Harsh facts

So you trade him under the assumption someone might give him the max next summer? Does he wait and hope that happens? Or secure $100 million with an extension this summer? Most everyone takes the extension unless they think they are lowballed, and often when they don't it comes back to bit them (see Nerlens Noel and others).

I agree. I am not trading Bridges too early with the thought that maybe he doesn't sign a long term deal. I am going to keep him through next season and hope something gets done. Mikal is a good player and will get better. I think something like 5/90-100m seems fair in todays markeplace

Cam - -well thats a decision to be made in two years. But he just gets better and better.

I think people underestimate his impact. On offense he is a high iq guy that helps move the ball, space the floor, attract a defender as our highest % 3pt shooter and best cutter/finisher...and he moves the ball smartly without turning it over with great chemistry with guys..whether he knows when to cut and works well with Paul or reads guys to get the ball to in good position. He also is our best fast break guy at initiating it and finishing it. And of course people know his importance on defense..the coaches and people across the league and the media covering it.

Just look at the ORTG and DRTG on the far right here..and you can calculate Net Rating...for all of the Suns:



And then here look at the traditional stats rating a player's team value or value across the league like VORP, on the right, or BPM, which measures how many areas they excel in, or WS/48, the players who most contribute to a team's wins when on the floor...compared to the rest of the Suns:

[BobbieL]

So you trade him under the assumption someone might give him the max next summer? Does he wait and hope that happens? Or secure $100 million with an extension this summer? Most everyone takes the extension unless they think they are lowballed, and often when they don't it comes back to bit them (see Nerlens Noel and others).

I agree. I am not trading Bridges too early with the thought that maybe he doesn't sign a long term deal. I am going to keep him through next season and hope something gets done. Mikal is a good player and will get better. I think something like 5/90-100m seems fair in todays markeplace

Cam - -well thats a decision to be made in two years. But he just gets better and better.

I think people underestimate his impact. On offense he is a high iq guy that helps move the ball, space the floor, attract a defender as our highest % 3pt shooter and best cutter/finisher...and he moves the ball smartly without turning it over with great chemistry with guys..whether he knows when to cut and works well with Paul or reads guys to get the ball to in good position. He also is our best fast break guy at initiating it and finishing it. And of course people know his importance on defense..the coaches and people across the league and the media covering it.

Just look at the ORTG and DRTG on the far right here..and you can calculate Net Rating...for all of the Suns:



And then here look at the traditional stats rating a player's team value or value across the league like VORP, on the right, or BPM, which measures how many areas they excel in, or WS/48, the players who most contribute to a team's wins when on the floor...compared to the rest of the Suns:

Mikal Bridges is a damn good player. The type of player you keep. I understand their is the salary cap to consider but he is one of the players you keep. I for sure am not trading him a year earlier than needed.

[GoodBehavior]

Bridges contract is going to be affordable (based on today's standards). $20M seems about right, and I don't see many teams going to try to pay him more than that. They would have to significantly overpay to lure him away from the Suns. He has a great thing going on here, why would he leave for marginally some more money?

[bwgood77]

Bridges contract is going to be affordable (based on today's standards). $20M seems about right, and I don't see many teams going to try to pay him more than that. They would have to significantly overpay to lure him away from the Suns. He has a great thing going on here, why would he leave for marginally some more money?

Yeah, great culture, best buds with Cam, winning a championship, etc. I think he tells his agent to get the best extension offer he can from Phx and get it done. His agent will want to make more because he gets a % but I think Bridges will just want to secure the long term money as soon as possible and commit to the Suns.

And we sure as heck wouldn't trade such a key player when competing for championships for a rookie like has been suggested. Time to blow it up and retool? No, don't think so.

[BobbieL]

Saric tore his ACL - -per the Suns

Basically any trade ideas discussed... you can resume your scheduled programming.

[BobbieL]

Bridges contract is going to be affordable (based on today's standards). $20M seems about right, and I don't see many teams going to try to pay him more than that. They would have to significantly overpay to lure him away from the Suns. He has a great thing going on here, why would he leave for marginally some more money?

Yeah, great culture, best buds with Cam, winning a championship, etc. I think he tells his agent to get the best extension offer he can from Phx and get it done. His agent will want to make more because he gets a % but I think Bridges will just want to secure the long term money as soon as possible and commit to the Suns.

And we sure as heck wouldn't trade suck a key player when competing for championships for a rookie like has been suggested. Time to blow it up and retool? No, don't think so.

If the Suns get DA and Mikal long term
'CP3 back for three years
Cam , Jae and Saric have two (well Saric is done next year - do the Suns get an injury waiver of cap space -like half his salary?)

The Suns should run this out as long as they can. If thats only two more years - so be it

[irish22022]

Okay this is IF bridges wants 25 a year for 4 years:

Would you trade bridges/saric/Carter

For

Wiggins

Wiggins showed improvement on both sides this year. He gets 29. Off the books in 2023. We dump Carter and saric contracts, they could actually use Carter more than us and saric would be their small ball center too. Bridges they could pay back loaded so the money works out to be the same as Wiggins with all three basically.

[saintEscaton]

I think we are still missing piece from being a legit/repeat title contender, cauz if the other Western teams with truly elite superstar talent are fully healthy I don't see us coasting in the regular season again with a high seed or getting to the Finals again through the path of least resistance. I really hope Kawhi doesn't land with the Mavs that would put them over the top, he needs to bolt East and sign with Philly or Miami if he decides to leave the Clips. We need a transcendental franchise player. Booker is a great 3rd star on a contender and Ayton's ceiling is predicated on how high his offensive potential is which is still a huge question mark and the difference between him being a really good above replacement player and a bona fide star.

[BobbieL]

Okay this is IF bridges wants 25 a year for 4 years:

Would you trade bridges/saric/Carter

For

Wiggins

Wiggins showed improvement on both sides this year. He gets 29. Off the books in 2023. We dump Carter and saric contracts, they could actually use Carter more than us and saric would be their small ball center too. Bridges they could pay back loaded so the money works out to be the same as Wiggins with all three basically.

I am sure you wrote this before the news about SAric ACL -- but I would prefer Bridges over Wiggins. Wiggins did improve but the Suns have a good core group - Bridges is part of that core.

[Barkley6]

I think we are still missing piece from being a legit/repeat title contender, cauz if the other Western teams with truly elite superstar talent are fully healthy I don't see us coasting in the regular season again with a high seed or getting to the Finals again through the path of least resistance. I really hope Kawhi doesn't land with the Mavs that would put them over the top, he needs to bolt East and sign with Philly or Miami if he decides to leave the Clips. We need a transcendental franchise player. Booker is a great 3rd star on a contender and Ayton's ceiling is predicated on how high his offensive potential is which is still a huge question mark and the difference between him being a really good above replacement player and a bona fide star.

I think we can get better, but I think our 8 man rotation of Paul, Book, Bridges, Crowder, Ayton, Payne, Johnson, Craig is a pretty solid base.

I think we should look to find at least one other rotation player, either in FA, draft or development (Stix). But I don't think we need to mess too much with what's working.

Sure if there are cheap upgrades available for Gallo, Moore, Frank, Nader you jump on that, but I don't think we need major moves.

We had the 2nd best record in the NBA and stayed healthy, in part, because we are deep. The fact that we didn't have to rely on 2 or 3 stars to drag fringe NBA players over the finish line has definitely contributed to our current success.

The only 'super team' I think that is really a scary team, when healthy, is the Clippers because they have two top end talents, and some quality depth. But even they struggled against Dallas and Utah with Kawhi.

Phoenix, and to a lesser extent Milwaukee are here because they have built more complete rosters. They may lack the top end star power of the Nets and Lakers, who were the odds on favorites to win this year, but they have a lot of quality NBA talent that can show up nightly and play good basketball. I think you're going to see a lot more GMs take a look at the models of these two teams rather than invest heavily in a super team and pray injury doesn't strike.

[bwgood77]

Okay this is IF bridges wants 25 a year for 4 years:

Would you trade bridges/saric/Carter

For

Wiggins

Wiggins showed improvement on both sides this year. He gets 29. Off the books in 2023. We dump Carter and saric contracts, they could actually use Carter more than us and saric would be their small ball center too. Bridges they could pay back loaded so the money works out to be the same as Wiggins with all three basically.

I am sure you wrote this before the news about SAric ACL -- but I would prefer Bridges over Wiggins. Wiggins did improve but the Suns have a good core group - Bridges is part of that core.

I know GS sure as hell would.

[bwoolf2]

Would love to pick up a 2nd rounder or even our bottom of the 1st for this guy as a dario/ big man replacement. Has a nice game and already does a lot of things we ask of our 5. Good size better athlete than Dario or Frank but not great.

Watch on YouTube

[bwgood77]

I suspect you're right but not because we won't offer him a fair deal. Someone will absolutely overpay him. And he'll be gone. A trade for a top 7 pick and a decent 3+d guy now may be prudent if you can't extend him this summer. Harsh facts

We're in the finals and projected to win so no one wants to hear this.....

But it's true. There are some tough choices that will be made on this team in the next 12 months. Selling high on a guy who will want 25+ and getting a primo prospect for him in return might be a reality. We'll see though. Sarver said he'll pay, let's see if he means he'll pay EVERYONE.

Jimmy Butler and Kawhi were defensive role players who showed no more offensive ability than Mikal has early in their careers. We should absolutely not be letting Mikal walk. His defense is a big part of why we are here, and he's not a liability on offense. He moves incredibly well off the ball and shoots at a high level. He's not an offensive creator but could be an 18 PPG scorer with continued ball handling improvement. We should not be letting any of the core walk this offseason. If we're moving anybody, it ought to be Crowder and / or Frank if there's an upgrade to be made at the backup big spots. I do like Crowder but I think Cam has already proven to be the better player and I could easily see him being the starter next year. DA can handle the paint as the lone big.

Yeah, Mikal still can improve quite a bit. I think they recognize his value, where he can go with his game and how important he is if we want to remain a contender for years to come.

[Slim Charless]

Okay this is IF bridges wants 25 a year for 4 years:

Would you trade bridges/saric/Carter

For

Wiggins

Wiggins showed improvement on both sides this year. He gets 29. Off the books in 2023. We dump Carter and saric contracts, they could actually use Carter more than us and saric would be their small ball center too. Bridges they could pay back loaded so the money works out to be the same as Wiggins with all three basically.

I am sure you wrote this before the news about SAric ACL -- but I would prefer Bridges over Wiggins. Wiggins did improve but the Suns have a good core group - Bridges is part of that core.

Yeah....the answer to his question is no, and that's after Dario's ACL and knowing that we'll have to carry his 8M on the cap for the next 2 years with little to no value coming back.

Back to Bridges, I hate making it seem like I don't like the guy cause I do. I just have little faith in $arver. I was listening to Simmons earlier and he was talking about how in NBA circles they're not 100% sure if he wants to pay 3 guys max deals-to say nothing of the check he's gonna have to write Mikal on top of our Big 3.

He's gotta pay Ayton and I just don't see him letting CP3 go. That makes it hard for Mikal. Maybe he takes a 20M/yr deal or less, but this is a business and if he's already won a ring why would he not go for a max-if some team offered it to him? I think that some team would offer it to him: he's young, can 3&D, has a winning pedigree and best of all it would screw us.

All of that to say I can see $arver saying: "OK we won a title, I'm gonna pay Chris, DA, Book and maybe resign Payne but make a deal for Bridges if we can't get him for under 20"

[Fo-Real]

Okay this is IF bridges wants 25 a year for 4 years:

Would you trade bridges/saric/Carter

For

Wiggins

Wiggins showed improvement on both sides this year. He gets 29. Off the books in 2023. We dump Carter and saric contracts, they could actually use Carter more than us and saric would be their small ball center too. Bridges they could pay back loaded so the money works out to be the same as Wiggins with all three basically.

Bro, we have to fight now!!! RULES IS RULES!!! MEET ME OUTSIDE!!! LOL

[Ghost of Kleine]

Okay this is IF bridges wants 25 a year for 4 years:

Would you trade bridges/saric/Carter

For

Wiggins

Wiggins showed improvement on both sides this year. He gets 29. Off the books in 2023. We dump Carter and saric contracts, they could actually use Carter more than us and saric would be their small ball center too. Bridges they could pay back loaded so the money works out to be the same as Wiggins with all three basically.

I am sure you wrote this before the news about SAric ACL -- but I would prefer Bridges over Wiggins. Wiggins did improve but the Suns have a good core group - Bridges is part of that core.

Yeah....the answer to his question is no, and that's after Dario's ACL and knowing that we'll have to carry his 8M on the cap for the next 2 years with little to no value coming back.

Back to Bridges, I hate making it seem like I don't like the guy cause I do. I just have little faith in $arver. I was listening to Simmons earlier and he was talking about how in NBA circles they're not 100% sure if he wants to pay 3 guys max deals-to say nothing of the check he's gonna have to write Mikal on top of our Big 3.

He's gotta pay Ayton and I just don't see him letting CP3 go. That makes it hard for Mikal. Maybe he takes a 20M/yr deal or less, but this is a business and if he's already won a ring why would he not go for a max-if some team offered it to him? I think that some team would offer it to him: he's young, can 3&D, has a winning pedigree and best of all it would screw us.

All of that to say I can see $arver saying: "OK we won a title, I'm gonna pay Chris, DA, Book and maybe resign Payne but make a deal for Bridges if we can't get him for under 20"

That would really suck, AND with Saver, I can see how that could be a very real possibility too unfortunately. That's why my thinking was that IF able to move off that 3rd year of Sarics, And replace it perhaps with a much cheaper veteran option or even a cost controlled rookie option, Then we'd obviously have a bigger cushion with which to pay Bridges a bit more to secure him, Rather than being financially hamstrung by our current situation and leave it up to Sarvers' best judgment.

I just felt that 10 million could go a long way towards covering an escalated bigger than anticipated offer. And for that 10 million, I much rather resign Bridges than Saric. Too bad now though that the ACL has tied up everything for us. I still think that we'll be looking to figure things out to find a way to dump his salary if at all possible? Admittedly though just not too sure how to accomplish that in this current situation.

[lilfishi22]

Okay this is IF bridges wants 25 a year for 4 years:

Would you trade bridges/saric/Carter

For

Wiggins

Wiggins showed improvement on both sides this year. He gets 29. Off the books in 2023. We dump Carter and saric contracts, they could actually use Carter more than us and saric would be their small ball center too. Bridges they could pay back loaded so the money works out to be the same as Wiggins with all three basically.

lol I'd rather eat Carter/Saric's contract than trade Bridges for Wiggins. Also, I'd pay Bridges 25 for 4 over Wiggins all day, every day

It's not even close. Bridges makes winning plays and has been a core part of winning teams like the Suns and in college. Wiggins has never won anything at any level and one year of improvement at 29 isn't going to change my thoughts on him.