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AussieRaptor wrote:People keep saying Suggs has Raptors qualities, DNA, etc. I can absolutely see why, but what if Suns (for example) were picking #4. Who would be the most Suns-esque? Would it still be Suggs?
Just curious. Obviously Suns made the Finals the right way, by building through the draft then trading for a key veteran piece in CP3 to push them over the top.
HumbleRen wrote:AussieRaptor wrote:People keep saying Suggs has Raptors qualities, DNA, etc. I can absolutely see why, but what if Suns (for example) were picking #4. Who would be the most Suns-esque? Would it still be Suggs?
Just curious. Obviously Suns made the Finals the right way, by building through the draft then trading for a key veteran piece in CP3 to push them over the top.
Definitely Suggs to be CP3’s heir apparent.
Well I mean you said who would the Suns take if they were #4. Suggs would be the most likely person to be drafted at 4 haha.AussieRaptor wrote:HumbleRen wrote:AussieRaptor wrote:People keep saying Suggs has Raptors qualities, DNA, etc. I can absolutely see why, but what if Suns (for example) were picking #4. Who would be the most Suns-esque? Would it still be Suggs?
Just curious. Obviously Suns made the Finals the right way, by building through the draft then trading for a key veteran piece in CP3 to push them over the top.
Definitely Suggs to be CP3’s heir apparent.
So is it more about fit? Suggs the heir apparent to CP3, as he would be the heir apparent to Lowry.
I know I posed the question, but it’s a more obvious situation for Suns now that I think of it. Mobley wouldn’t make much sense because of Ayton, and Green wouldn’t make much sense because of Booker. Even if Suns hypothetically had the #2 pick, it’s likely still Suggs, right?
For Raptors it’s more debatable, as we have a hole at C (Mobley), need an elite scoring wing (Green), but could use a genuine replacement for the GROAT in Lowry (Suggs). So if Raptors hypothetically had the #2 pick, chances are it’s Mobley or Green instead of Suggs (depending on your preference), even though Suggs has “Raptors like qualities, DNA, etc.” I actually think they would take Mobley at #2 if given the chance.
Obviously for teams with bad rosters who are a long way from contending, it’s purely BPA every time… or are you (and others) saying Suggs to Suns (Raptors) because you think he’s the BPA (behind Cade) in this draft class?
vulture wrote:bballsparkin wrote:vulture wrote:This is what I'm seeing overall for these prospects:
mobley - Highest outcome is 2nd best defensive player on a championship team and 3rd best offensive player if his jumper translates
Lowest outcome is bench big on a championship team
Green- Highest outcome is 2nd or 3rd best offensive player on a championship team if his playmaking improves quite a bit and 4th or 5th best defensive player if he gets in a good system
Lowest outcome is 4th guard on a championship team so basically a bench guard
Suggs- Highest outcome is 3rd best offensive player on a championship team if the shooting is above average and 2nd or 3rd best defensive player on a championship team
Lowest outcome is Backup guard at both the 1 and 2 on a championship team.
Barnes: Highest outcome is 3rd best offensive player on a championship team if the shooting is average and 2nd defensive player on a championship especially if he can play small ball 5
Lowest outcome is low end starter on championship because of his passing and defensive versatility
Overall, I just don't see anyone with superstar potential here so hopeful these guys reach their highest outcomes.
You're highest outcomes are whack.Lowest outcome is bench big on a championship team
Sure, if he breaks both knee caps and has shin splints. I'll give you one thing. You're "highest outcomes" are consistently pessimistic.
It’s called being realistic. About 80% of the first round prospects fail to make any impact every year.
Expecting any of these prospects to be great players is just not realistic.
I hope you’re not one those people who watches YouTube videos referring to these prospects as generational talent
Marty_Budda wrote:vulture wrote:bballsparkin wrote:
You're highest outcomes are whack.
Sure, if he breaks both knee caps and has shin splints. I'll give you one thing. You're "highest outcomes" are consistently pessimistic.
It’s called being realistic. About 80% of the first round prospects fail to make any impact every year.
Expecting any of these prospects to be great players is just not realistic.
I hope you’re not one those people who watches YouTube videos referring to these prospects as generational talent
Mobley becoming the best defensive player in the league is not unrealistic! Doesn’t mean it’ll happen, but it also COULD happen.
Green becoming a go-to scorer on a championship team could be a possibility. Does it mean it’ll definitely happen? No. But it’s a possibility again based on his potential.
I could go on for all these guys. Only one I agree with is Barnes.
Your highest outcomes are out of whack because they’re very conservative for how highly rated of prospects these guys are. Chances are some of them won’t fulfill their entire potential, but if they do no reason their ceilings shouldn’t be higher than what you’ve suggested.
1. Cade Cunningham, G/F, Oklahoma State | Freshman
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Height: 6' 7" | Weight: 220 | Age: 19 | Previous rank: 1
As a malleable, versatile guard without a truly glaring weakness and several special qualities, Cunningham has held the No. 1 spot on this board all season. While his individual college stats weren’t as flashy as expected, opponents geared up to stop him every night, and he adjusted to win games. Cunningham’s size, playmaking acumen and remarkable intelligence and feel for decision-making are all strong selling points. He’s turned himself from an average shooter into a legitimately good one. He’s not a high-end NBA athlete and still struggles to finish more than you’d like, but a steady diet of spread pick and roll might maximize his gifts and minimize his weaknesses in the long run. Cunningham’s competitive makeup and leadership skills have always stood out, and he’s consistently shown a willingness to make plays and close out games. There may be some debate, but there shouldn’t be much doubt, and it ultimately would be tough to be the team that passes on him.
2. Evan Mobley, F/C, USC | Freshman
Height: 7' 0" | Weight: 215 | Age: 20 | Previous rank: 2
Mobley has a sneaky, if not popular, case as an alternative option at No. 1, as the type of mobile shot-blocker and space-eraser you can build a defense around. Possessing overwhelming length and exceptional defensive instincts, Mobley rarely fouls and covers ground and space effectively to deter opposing shooters. While Mobley has always been an excellent ball-handler and passer for his size, he falls short of being a true No. 1 option on offense. His long reach makes it difficult to alter his shot in the paint, and he’s a steady finisher, but quality touches often have to be manufactured for him. He can be a bit passive at times, but will be comfortable playing next to ball-dominant teammates and should be able to space the floor, catch lobs and make plays for others as needed. Considering his native impact on the game and room to grow, Mobley has the ability to be one of the best bigs in the league if it all breaks correctly.
3. Jalen Green, SG, G League Ignite
Height: 6' 5" | Weight: 180 | Age: 19 | Previous rank: 4
There’s an argument to be made that Green’s upside is as high as any player in the draft, with a strong showing in the G League that affirmed his readiness for an NBA opportunity. He’s a terrific athlete and gifted shot-maker who has begun to translate his remarkable high school flashes into consistent production. He’s still learning how to impact the game without the ball in his hands and can be a bit sticky with the ball, but he’s also shown some playmaking ability and capacity to initiate offense. But Green should be able to improve his handle and jumper, and if his shot selection can progress toward optimal efficiency, he has the ability to be a legitimate No. 1 scoring option. He’s made encouraging progress over the past year, and he checks all the right boxes to be a top-flight perimeter scorer if he stays on course.
4. Jalen Suggs, G, Gonzaga | Freshman
Height: 6' 4" | Weight: 205 | Age: 19 | Previous rank: 3
Suggs made the most of a great situation at Gonzaga and capably showcased a wide range of translatable strengths. Suggs has exceptional strength and quickness for his size, will play either guard spot, competes at a high level all the time, and has a range of ways to positively impact games as a defender, playmaker, and scorer. While he’s not quite as polished in the halfcourt as some of his peers in this draft, the NBA’s trend toward multiple-playmaker lineups helps mitigate those concerns. Suggs has the tools to be an excellent perimeter defender and shadow opposing scorers, and his level of composure and consistent focus always stands out. While he may wind up as more of a hyper-athletic utility guard than a high-usage playmaker in the long run, that version of Suggs could still be a star. It’s hard to see a scenario where he’s not a viable long-term starter, at minimum.
5. Scottie Barnes, F, Florida State | Freshman
Height: 6' 9" | Weight: 225 | Age: 19 | Previous rank: 9
Barnes’ unique skill set may turn out to be a better fit for the NBA than college: he’s a terrific passer who’s at his best when accessorizing more talented teammates, has enough of a handle to foresee some upside as a playmaker, and pairs a defense-first mindset with exceptional length and versatility. On the flipside, Barnes is not extremely quick or explosive, his jumper has never been a strength, and he isn’t naturally wired to score. The matter of personnel fit will make him a tougher sell for some teams, but his intangibles will work in his favor. It may take Barnes some time to grow into a real factor on offense, but if his shot comes along, he can be more than just a solid starter. His floor is pretty high regardless, with skilled bigs who play both ends always in high demand.
6. Jonathan Kuminga, F, G League Ignite
Height: 6' 8" | Weight: 210 | Age: 18 | Previous rank: 5
From a physical perspective, Kuminga is one of the most gifted prospects in the draft, with the tools to excel as a slashing forward, defend his position, and some untapped upside as a playmaker. While Kuminga certainly helped himself with G League Ignite, his play tailed off a bit toward the end of the shortened season, and he’s more of a project than the other top prospects in the draft. It’s easy to talk yourself into the upside here: if Kuminga improves his jumper, becomes a better decision-maker and steps up his effort on a more consistent basis, he has myriad pathways to making a positive impact on both ends of the floor. However, there’s also some thought that his development may have plateaued to an extent, and questions remain about his overall feel on both ends. Kuminga is likely to require patience, and there’s a bit more risk built in with him than other top prospects.
ATLTimekeeper wrote:vulture wrote:bballsparkin wrote:
You're highest outcomes are whack.
Sure, if he breaks both knee caps and has shin splints. I'll give you one thing. You're "highest outcomes" are consistently pessimistic.
It’s called being realistic. About 80% of the first round prospects fail to make any impact every year.
Expecting any of these prospects to be great players is just not realistic.
I hope you’re not one those people who watches YouTube videos referring to these prospects as generational talent
Lowest outcome for everyone is bust if you want to pretend you're being realistic.
vulture wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:vulture wrote:
It’s called being realistic. About 80% of the first round prospects fail to make any impact every year.
Expecting any of these prospects to be great players is just not realistic.
I hope you’re not one those people who watches YouTube videos referring to these prospects as generational talent
Mobley becoming the best defensive player in the league is not unrealistic! Doesn’t mean it’ll happen, but it also COULD happen.
Green becoming a go-to scorer on a championship team could be a possibility. Does it mean it’ll definitely happen? No. But it’s a possibility again based on his potential.
I could go on for all these guys. Only one I agree with is Barnes.
Your highest outcomes are out of whack because they’re very conservative for how highly rated of prospects these guys are. Chances are some of them won’t fulfill their entire potential, but if they do no reason their ceilings shouldn’t be higher than what you’ve suggested.
Have you seen what a lot of the prospects become in the NBA? It's safe to say I'm actually being optimistic.
Expecting Mobley to become a DPOY is extremely difficult. Can he become a great defender? Yes, but DPOY is unlikely to me.
OAKLEY_2 wrote:And then Green is an easy pick for the Cavs. Unlike the lotto balls Suggs name appears just about every roll. Watched a clip of Shannon and Skip (LOL) and they said post tourney Suggs did not scream Ja Morant level talent. Skip said he def has winning intangibles but isn't by any means "generational" if even an allstar. I think that is harsh. He screams superb all round athlete. Leader. Competitor. He screams intangibles. He screams IQ. He screams Lowry replacement.
WuTang_OG wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/08/nba-draft-big-board-top-80-prospect-rankings-cade-cunningham-evan-mobley1. Cade Cunningham, G/F, Oklahoma State | Freshman
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Height: 6' 7" | Weight: 220 | Age: 19 | Previous rank: 1
As a malleable, versatile guard without a truly glaring weakness and several special qualities, Cunningham has held the No. 1 spot on this board all season. While his individual college stats weren’t as flashy as expected, opponents geared up to stop him every night, and he adjusted to win games. Cunningham’s size, playmaking acumen and remarkable intelligence and feel for decision-making are all strong selling points. He’s turned himself from an average shooter into a legitimately good one. He’s not a high-end NBA athlete and still struggles to finish more than you’d like, but a steady diet of spread pick and roll might maximize his gifts and minimize his weaknesses in the long run. Cunningham’s competitive makeup and leadership skills have always stood out, and he’s consistently shown a willingness to make plays and close out games. There may be some debate, but there shouldn’t be much doubt, and it ultimately would be tough to be the team that passes on him.
2. Evan Mobley, F/C, USC | Freshman
Height: 7' 0" | Weight: 215 | Age: 20 | Previous rank: 2
Mobley has a sneaky, if not popular, case as an alternative option at No. 1, as the type of mobile shot-blocker and space-eraser you can build a defense around. Possessing overwhelming length and exceptional defensive instincts, Mobley rarely fouls and covers ground and space effectively to deter opposing shooters. While Mobley has always been an excellent ball-handler and passer for his size, he falls short of being a true No. 1 option on offense. His long reach makes it difficult to alter his shot in the paint, and he’s a steady finisher, but quality touches often have to be manufactured for him. He can be a bit passive at times, but will be comfortable playing next to ball-dominant teammates and should be able to space the floor, catch lobs and make plays for others as needed. Considering his native impact on the game and room to grow, Mobley has the ability to be one of the best bigs in the league if it all breaks correctly.
3. Jalen Green, SG, G League Ignite
Height: 6' 5" | Weight: 180 | Age: 19 | Previous rank: 4
There’s an argument to be made that Green’s upside is as high as any player in the draft, with a strong showing in the G League that affirmed his readiness for an NBA opportunity. He’s a terrific athlete and gifted shot-maker who has begun to translate his remarkable high school flashes into consistent production. He’s still learning how to impact the game without the ball in his hands and can be a bit sticky with the ball, but he’s also shown some playmaking ability and capacity to initiate offense. But Green should be able to improve his handle and jumper, and if his shot selection can progress toward optimal efficiency, he has the ability to be a legitimate No. 1 scoring option. He’s made encouraging progress over the past year, and he checks all the right boxes to be a top-flight perimeter scorer if he stays on course.
4. Jalen Suggs, G, Gonzaga | Freshman
Height: 6' 4" | Weight: 205 | Age: 19 | Previous rank: 3
Suggs made the most of a great situation at Gonzaga and capably showcased a wide range of translatable strengths. Suggs has exceptional strength and quickness for his size, will play either guard spot, competes at a high level all the time, and has a range of ways to positively impact games as a defender, playmaker, and scorer. While he’s not quite as polished in the halfcourt as some of his peers in this draft, the NBA’s trend toward multiple-playmaker lineups helps mitigate those concerns. Suggs has the tools to be an excellent perimeter defender and shadow opposing scorers, and his level of composure and consistent focus always stands out. While he may wind up as more of a hyper-athletic utility guard than a high-usage playmaker in the long run, that version of Suggs could still be a star. It’s hard to see a scenario where he’s not a viable long-term starter, at minimum.
5. Scottie Barnes, F, Florida State | Freshman
Height: 6' 9" | Weight: 225 | Age: 19 | Previous rank: 9
Barnes’ unique skill set may turn out to be a better fit for the NBA than college: he’s a terrific passer who’s at his best when accessorizing more talented teammates, has enough of a handle to foresee some upside as a playmaker, and pairs a defense-first mindset with exceptional length and versatility. On the flipside, Barnes is not extremely quick or explosive, his jumper has never been a strength, and he isn’t naturally wired to score. The matter of personnel fit will make him a tougher sell for some teams, but his intangibles will work in his favor. It may take Barnes some time to grow into a real factor on offense, but if his shot comes along, he can be more than just a solid starter. His floor is pretty high regardless, with skilled bigs who play both ends always in high demand.
6. Jonathan Kuminga, F, G League Ignite
Height: 6' 8" | Weight: 210 | Age: 18 | Previous rank: 5
From a physical perspective, Kuminga is one of the most gifted prospects in the draft, with the tools to excel as a slashing forward, defend his position, and some untapped upside as a playmaker. While Kuminga certainly helped himself with G League Ignite, his play tailed off a bit toward the end of the shortened season, and he’s more of a project than the other top prospects in the draft. It’s easy to talk yourself into the upside here: if Kuminga improves his jumper, becomes a better decision-maker and steps up his effort on a more consistent basis, he has myriad pathways to making a positive impact on both ends of the floor. However, there’s also some thought that his development may have plateaued to an extent, and questions remain about his overall feel on both ends. Kuminga is likely to require patience, and there’s a bit more risk built in with him than other top prospects.
kj_ wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:And then Green is an easy pick for the Cavs. Unlike the lotto balls Suggs name appears just about every roll. Watched a clip of Shannon and Skip (LOL) and they said post tourney Suggs did not scream Ja Morant level talent. Skip said he def has winning intangibles but isn't by any means "generational" if even an allstar. I think that is harsh. He screams superb all round athlete. Leader. Competitor. He screams intangibles. He screams IQ. He screams Lowry replacement.
I’m glad Skip said this because he’s an idiot and it should nearly guarantee Suggs is going to be great.
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Clay Davis wrote:COMPOSED ONLY OF THE COOLEST WOMEN AND THE HOTTEST GUYS, THE TORONTO RAPTORS REALGM BOARD HAS LONG BEEN KNOWN FOR ITS HIGH-QUALITY DISCUSSION, PASSIONATE LOYALTY, TEMPERATE CELEBRATIONS OF VICTORY, AND GRACE IN DEFEAT.
Josh Hart ? LmaooooReeko wrote:kj_ wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:And then Green is an easy pick for the Cavs. Unlike the lotto balls Suggs name appears just about every roll. Watched a clip of Shannon and Skip (LOL) and they said post tourney Suggs did not scream Ja Morant level talent. Skip said he def has winning intangibles but isn't by any means "generational" if even an allstar. I think that is harsh. He screams superb all round athlete. Leader. Competitor. He screams intangibles. He screams IQ. He screams Lowry replacement.
I’m glad Skip said this because he’s an idiot and it should nearly guarantee Suggs is going to be great.
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Lol they said he reminded them of Josh Hart, and that he wasn't as good as Lonzo Ball.
