2021 NBA Draft Thread

[Dn4sty]

With you here as I've said. Think its tough to build around a big to begin with, but guys who aren't top end defenders are even harder.

Also just signed up for a month of Thunder After Dark podcasts for draft prospect breakdowns, they're solid. Schlect and usually Berra (sometimes someone else), but as ThunderBolt said usually Schlect is solid IMO with the exception of Friday pods.

Also part of me wonders with Sengun if it's not a case of people looking for the next "X". Like last year it was who's the next Bam Adebayo, it's been the next Draymond forever, now maybe the next Jokic. Don't know but just because a guy has some similar skills (good passing big man) doesn't mean they're the next version of someone.

Sengun at 6 is a no go for me. Sengun at 16 or 18 would be fine.

I'm inbetween... 16+18 to get Sengun at 9-12. That's the only way to get him anyway.

I get that. But if they package those picks to move up to 9-12, my hope is that it’s for Moody, Giddey, or bondoms guy Wagner.

[bondom34]

Sengun at 6 is a no go for me. Sengun at 16 or 18 would be fine.

I'm inbetween... 16+18 to get Sengun at 9-12. That's the only way to get him anyway.

I get that. But if they package those picks to move up to 9-12, my hope is that it’s for Moody, Giddey, or bondoms guy Wagner.

Moody's one of my guys too . I keep flipping between him, Bouknight, and Wagner. Not sure how I order them entirely.

[retrobro90]

He does the locked on thunder podcast. He’s a pretty big homer but he does a pretty good job covering the thunder for minor breaking news. The thunder best writer world is pretty anemic right now.

I used to follow him on Twitter. I was unclear who he actually was or what his credentials were. Is he actually a trained journalist? Or is he just like a fan blogger who went mainstream?

And yeah the Thunder beat writing is really terrible. Some of these guys like Erick Horne who ostensibly cover the Thunder are really mailing it in at this point. I miss the days when we had Darnell and Anthony Slater tag-teaming it at the Oklahoman. That was also around the time Royce was Super Active with the team. Probably the high-water mark.

Not sure if he’s a trained journalist or not. He has media credentials so he has some access and connections.

Horne actually changed positions and is an editor now. It happened with the shake up with the athletic when lots of teams lost their beat writers. He’s was probably happy to just keep his job. Of course this happened right when I renewed with the athletic so that was money wasted.

When Maddie (forgot last name) took a job in Chicago, the Oklahoman decided to just keep one writer, mussatto. He doesn’t seem like mr personality, but maybe I’m wrong since he’s behind a paywall now.

Rahbar is pretty good. Royce is now nonexistent. I like Schlecht with the exception of the Friday podcast. He seems to be getting more involved with other non-thunder stuff so hopefully he keeps providing thunder content.

I like Tyler Parker at The Ringer. That's about it for me right now. I think Schlect is a good host and the Monday pods are a nice vehicle for Miky to talk around him. When it comes to being an analyst he sort of contorts his 5-ish homer talking points around whatever context the discussion is taking. "OKC needs to build through the draft. Sam Presti is gonna do his due dilligence...etc etc"

[Dn4sty]

I'm inbetween... 16+18 to get Sengun at 9-12. That's the only way to get him anyway.

I get that. But if they package those picks to move up to 9-12, my hope is that it’s for Moody, Giddey, or bondoms guy Wagner.

Moody's one of my guys too . I keep flipping between him, Bouknight, and Wagner. Not sure how I order them entirely.

I’m all in on Bouknight to the point where I’ve almost convinced myself OKC should take him at 6

[getrichordie]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Team Bouknight

I think #6 is probably too high but I would love him at #16 or maybe a little higher if we package 16/18. He's obviously a big time bucket getter but I could see him leveraging that scoring ability down the road to make plays for others. I like his quick acceleration and we could use that tbh. Not many speedsters in the guard spot for OKC right now.

#6 isn't too high for Bouk imo. The kid can really play and he will shoot it well, imo. PDS guy. There's a few out there that have him ahead of Green and I don't think it's that crazy, but I still have Green a little ahead.

[ThunderBolt]

I haven’t heard much about Bouknight defensively. I know he was asked to carry a massive load for UConn offensively, but how does he project as a defender when he’s not his entire team’s offense?

[Old Man Game]

I haven’t heard much about Bouknight defensively. I know he was asked to carry a massive load for UConn offensively, but how does he project as a defender when he’s not his entire team’s offense?

I don't know but I'm pitching him as a sort of Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams type 6th man, bench spark plug.

[retrobro90]

I haven’t heard much about Bouknight defensively. I know he was asked to carry a massive load for UConn offensively, but how does he project as a defender when he’s not his entire team’s offense?

I think he'll be a little underwhelming on that end. Schlect and Miky were both high on his defense and I was pretty surprised. From a motor and effort standpoint he seems okay but he's a skinnier high center of gravity guy who's probably going to get pushed around a bit. Don't think the IQ/awareness is there either but that could improve with the right team dynamic.

[bondom34]

I haven’t heard much about Bouknight defensively. I know he was asked to carry a massive load for UConn offensively, but how does he project as a defender when he’s not his entire team’s offense?

I don't know but I'm pitching him as a sort of Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams type 6th man, bench spark plug.

Are you an anonymous exec by chance ?

https://theathletic.com/2694200/2021/07/08/nba-draft-confidential-coaches-execs-discuss-cade-cunningham-debate-jalen-green-vs-jalen-suggs-sleepers/

Western Conference executive 2: People want to compare him to (Jordan) Clarkson today. You need to compare Bouknight to Clarkson when he was a sophomore at Missouri. Apples to apples. You don’t compare Mitchell to Russell Westbrook the MVP; you compare him to where Russell Westbrook was at UCLA. Similar size. Bouknight’s got a better handle. I never thought Clarkson was great with the ball. But Bouknight’s a tough kid. I like him. I don’t think he’s a great shooter yet. Good midrange, can handle the pick-and-roll. I just wish he shot it a little better. But, again, he’s 20.

[thedoppelganger]

He does the locked on thunder podcast. He’s a pretty big homer but he does a pretty good job covering the thunder for minor breaking news. The thunder best writer world is pretty anemic right now.

I used to follow him on Twitter. I was unclear who he actually was or what his credentials were. Is he actually a trained journalist? Or is he just like a fan blogger who went mainstream?

And yeah the Thunder beat writing is really terrible. Some of these guys like Erick Horne who ostensibly cover the Thunder are really mailing it in at this point. I miss the days when we had Darnell and Anthony Slater tag-teaming it at the Oklahoman. That was also around the time Royce was Super Active with the team. Probably the high-water mark.

Not sure if he’s a trained journalist or not. He has media credentials so he has some access and connections.

Horne actually changed positions and is an editor now. It happened with the shake up with the athletic when lots of teams lost their beat writers. He’s was probably happy to just keep his job. Of course this happened right when I renewed with the athletic so that was money wasted.

When Maddie (forgot last name) took a job in Chicago, the Oklahoman decided to just keep one writer, mussatto. He doesn’t seem like mr personality, but maybe I’m wrong since he’s behind a paywall now.

Rahbar is pretty good. Royce is now nonexistent. I like Schlecht with the exception of the Friday podcast. He seems to be getting more involved with other non-thunder stuff so hopefully he keeps providing thunder content.

I do miss having people covering the team that weren't from Oklahoma and either weren't inherently homers or felt the need to pump sunshine 24/7. Everything has a positive twist right now, even us falling to #6 on lottery night has somehow turned into this being a 6 player draft according to local media where the national media has put a pretty big gap between 4 and 5.

We probably have the worst local coverage of any team at the moment outside maybe New Orleans, as Royce is really more of a national/on demand reporter for ESPN currently. Between Presti and the front office never leaking any information to reporters, and the team being at the start of a rebuild with no marketable stars, there's not much chance for anyone on our beat to have scoops or make a name for themselves.

Thankfully our board (and DT for the most part) has a fairly balanced view of what's happening, most of the other outlets like twitter, reddit, etc. are pretty unrealistic about our players/situation.

[thedoppelganger]

I haven’t heard much about Bouknight defensively. I know he was asked to carry a massive load for UConn offensively, but how does he project as a defender when he’s not his entire team’s offense?

I don't know but I'm pitching him as a sort of Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams type 6th man, bench spark plug.

Are you an anonymous exec by chance ?

https://theathletic.com/2694200/2021/07/08/nba-draft-confidential-coaches-execs-discuss-cade-cunningham-debate-jalen-green-vs-jalen-suggs-sleepers/

Western Conference executive 2: People want to compare him to (Jordan) Clarkson today. You need to compare Bouknight to Clarkson when he was a sophomore at Missouri. Apples to apples. You don’t compare Mitchell to Russell Westbrook the MVP; you compare him to where Russell Westbrook was at UCLA. Similar size. Bouknight’s got a better handle. I never thought Clarkson was great with the ball. But Bouknight’s a tough kid. I like him. I don’t think he’s a great shooter yet. Good midrange, can handle the pick-and-roll. I just wish he shot it a little better. But, again, he’s 20.

Bouknight's lack of playmaking in college scares me a bit. 32% usage and only registering 27 assists total in 15 games is pretty terrible. Wasn't asked to do much on defense in college, but he's got the tools to be decent on that end if he puts in the work. If we're looking at either taking him at 6 or moving into the top 10 to get him, I'd hope he'd be more than a 6th man type who is solely focused on scoring. You could get that with Cam Thomas much later in the 1st.

[bondom34]

I don't know but I'm pitching him as a sort of Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams type 6th man, bench spark plug.

Are you an anonymous exec by chance ?

https://theathletic.com/2694200/2021/07/08/nba-draft-confidential-coaches-execs-discuss-cade-cunningham-debate-jalen-green-vs-jalen-suggs-sleepers/

Western Conference executive 2: People want to compare him to (Jordan) Clarkson today. You need to compare Bouknight to Clarkson when he was a sophomore at Missouri. Apples to apples. You don’t compare Mitchell to Russell Westbrook the MVP; you compare him to where Russell Westbrook was at UCLA. Similar size. Bouknight’s got a better handle. I never thought Clarkson was great with the ball. But Bouknight’s a tough kid. I like him. I don’t think he’s a great shooter yet. Good midrange, can handle the pick-and-roll. I just wish he shot it a little better. But, again, he’s 20.

Bouknight's lack of playmaking in college scares me a bit. 32% usage and only registering 27 assists total in 15 games is pretty terrible. Wasn't asked to do much on defense in college, but he's got the tools to be decent on that end if he puts in the work. If we're looking at either taking him at 6 or moving into the top 10 to get him, I'd hope he'd be more than a 6th man type who is solely focused on scoring. You could get that with Cam Thomas much later in the 1st.

This it my main concern too. Not sure how much was just UConn and how much was him specifically, but its making me lean a little more toward Moody or Wagner in some ways. I keep flipping back and forth on this group though.

Edit: A bit lower on Thomas though. I think from what I've read Bouknight's more than just that, and Thomas seems to be limited to just that.

[retrobro90]

I don't know but I'm pitching him as a sort of Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams type 6th man, bench spark plug.

Are you an anonymous exec by chance ?

https://theathletic.com/2694200/2021/07/08/nba-draft-confidential-coaches-execs-discuss-cade-cunningham-debate-jalen-green-vs-jalen-suggs-sleepers/

Western Conference executive 2: People want to compare him to (Jordan) Clarkson today. You need to compare Bouknight to Clarkson when he was a sophomore at Missouri. Apples to apples. You don’t compare Mitchell to Russell Westbrook the MVP; you compare him to where Russell Westbrook was at UCLA. Similar size. Bouknight’s got a better handle. I never thought Clarkson was great with the ball. But Bouknight’s a tough kid. I like him. I don’t think he’s a great shooter yet. Good midrange, can handle the pick-and-roll. I just wish he shot it a little better. But, again, he’s 20.

Bouknight's lack of playmaking in college scares me a bit. 32% usage and only registering 27 assists total in 15 games is pretty terrible. Wasn't asked to do much on defense in college, but he's got the tools to be decent on that end if he puts in the work. If we're looking at either taking him at 6 or moving into the top 10 to get him, I'd hope he'd be more than a 6th man type who is solely focused on scoring. You could get that with Cam Thomas much later in the 1st.

I think being a bucket getter is an undervalued skillset that only so many dudes in the league have and its why teams like Utah end up looking like geniuses when they buy low on someone like Clarkson. Could make the case that Bouknight should be a lotto pick just on that potential alone and Thomas is someone I'd like them to look at if they take their time with Bouknight and determine he probably won't have the instincts/IQ to be a starting calibre high usage guy (1-2 in the usage pecking order).

I still think Bouknight has the potential to develop as a playmaker with a more spaced NBA floor. His ability to create separation and overall physical tools will help. If his scoring translates he should start leveraging defenses into passing to open teammates but he didn't really demonstrate that last year in the limited sample size. Teams already knew who he was as a scorer. As was said earlier, he only had 9 uncontested shots all year. On one hand, that's very impressive and should speak to his ability as a shotmaker. On the other, it's kind of telling about what kind of offense comes with high volume shooting and not a ton of good looks as a result.

[getrichordie]

I don't know but I'm pitching him as a sort of Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams type 6th man, bench spark plug.

Are you an anonymous exec by chance ?

https://theathletic.com/2694200/2021/07/08/nba-draft-confidential-coaches-execs-discuss-cade-cunningham-debate-jalen-green-vs-jalen-suggs-sleepers/

Western Conference executive 2: People want to compare him to (Jordan) Clarkson today. You need to compare Bouknight to Clarkson when he was a sophomore at Missouri. Apples to apples. You don’t compare Mitchell to Russell Westbrook the MVP; you compare him to where Russell Westbrook was at UCLA. Similar size. Bouknight’s got a better handle. I never thought Clarkson was great with the ball. But Bouknight’s a tough kid. I like him. I don’t think he’s a great shooter yet. Good midrange, can handle the pick-and-roll. I just wish he shot it a little better. But, again, he’s 20.

Bouknight's lack of playmaking in college scares me a bit. 32% usage and only registering 27 assists total in 15 games is pretty terrible. Wasn't asked to do much on defense in college, but he's got the tools to be decent on that end if he puts in the work. If we're looking at either taking him at 6 or moving into the top 10 to get him, I'd hope he'd be more than a 6th man type who is solely focused on scoring. You could get that with Cam Thomas much later in the 1st.

Bouk was second on UConn in AST per game. More of a function of UConn than anything. The dude definitely looks to score first, but mixes in some nice passes. He's a better passer than Jalen Green and arguably better than Suggs as well, IMO.

[Old Man Game]

The appeal of Bouknight to me is 100% about his ability to get his own. We are just bereft of that on our team outside of Shai (and Kemba who won't be here long term). I'd take average, even slightly below average D on this roster for well above average shot making/creation at this point.

That's why, even though all the mocks and prognosticators want us to believe Barnes is a better prospect, I won't be mad if we take Bouknight at 6, even over Barnes and/or Kuminga.

[retrobro90]

Are you an anonymous exec by chance ?

https://theathletic.com/2694200/2021/07/08/nba-draft-confidential-coaches-execs-discuss-cade-cunningham-debate-jalen-green-vs-jalen-suggs-sleepers/

Bouknight's lack of playmaking in college scares me a bit. 32% usage and only registering 27 assists total in 15 games is pretty terrible. Wasn't asked to do much on defense in college, but he's got the tools to be decent on that end if he puts in the work. If we're looking at either taking him at 6 or moving into the top 10 to get him, I'd hope he'd be more than a 6th man type who is solely focused on scoring. You could get that with Cam Thomas much later in the 1st.

Bouk was second on UConn in AST per game. More of a function of UConn than anything. The dude definitely looks to score first, but mixes in some nice passes. He's a better passer than Jalen Green and arguably better than Suggs as well, IMO.

Wow. GROD I gotta disagree pretty strongly on this one. I think Suggs' passing touch/IQ/diversity/volume trumps Bouknight's pretty comfortably. I really don't know what the case would be for Bouknight here but I'd be willing to hear you out.

[ThunderBolt]

I used to follow him on Twitter. I was unclear who he actually was or what his credentials were. Is he actually a trained journalist? Or is he just like a fan blogger who went mainstream?

And yeah the Thunder beat writing is really terrible. Some of these guys like Erick Horne who ostensibly cover the Thunder are really mailing it in at this point. I miss the days when we had Darnell and Anthony Slater tag-teaming it at the Oklahoman. That was also around the time Royce was Super Active with the team. Probably the high-water mark.

Not sure if he’s a trained journalist or not. He has media credentials so he has some access and connections.

Horne actually changed positions and is an editor now. It happened with the shake up with the athletic when lots of teams lost their beat writers. He’s was probably happy to just keep his job. Of course this happened right when I renewed with the athletic so that was money wasted.

When Maddie (forgot last name) took a job in Chicago, the Oklahoman decided to just keep one writer, mussatto. He doesn’t seem like mr personality, but maybe I’m wrong since he’s behind a paywall now.

Rahbar is pretty good. Royce is now nonexistent. I like Schlecht with the exception of the Friday podcast. He seems to be getting more involved with other non-thunder stuff so hopefully he keeps providing thunder content.

I do miss having people covering the team that weren't from Oklahoma and either weren't inherently homers or felt the need to pump sunshine 24/7. Everything has a positive twist right now, even us falling to #6 on lottery night has somehow turned into this being a 6 player draft according to local media where the national media has put a pretty big gap between 4 and 5.

Yesterday’s D2D pod, schlecht said that vecenie told him that it’s a four player draft at the top with Barnes rising up to possibly replace Kuminga. Obviously there are always surprises but I think that seems accurate. But yes, some people are spinning that to mean that’s it’s a six player draft.

[getrichordie]

Bouknight's lack of playmaking in college scares me a bit. 32% usage and only registering 27 assists total in 15 games is pretty terrible. Wasn't asked to do much on defense in college, but he's got the tools to be decent on that end if he puts in the work. If we're looking at either taking him at 6 or moving into the top 10 to get him, I'd hope he'd be more than a 6th man type who is solely focused on scoring. You could get that with Cam Thomas much later in the 1st.

Bouk was second on UConn in AST per game. More of a function of UConn than anything. The dude definitely looks to score first, but mixes in some nice passes. He's a better passer than Jalen Green and arguably better than Suggs as well, IMO.

Wow. GROD I gotta disagree pretty strongly on this one. I think Suggs' passing touch/IQ/diversity/volume trumps Bouknight's pretty comfortably. I really don't know what the case would be for Bouknight here but I'd be willing to hear you out.

Well, you can watch the tape for yourself, but feel free to find some clips that have been posted on twitter by myself and others. Suggs played in arguably the best context in all of college basketball next to Kispert, Nembhard, and Timme, with Mark Few as a coach. He's a really nice passer, not arguing that, but his numbers are inflated relative to other prospects' because the context was so good. Same thing with Davion Mitchell and Baylor. Context at UConn was quite terrible. I think outside of Bouknight there was like one other guy who was solid from 3. As a team, they ranked in 35th percentile in C&S plays and ran P&Rs just 15% of the time.

I mean, I know their is the whole narrative that Suggs is a former QB so he has good vision and can make good reads and while that is all true, I think his passing ability is overblown by a lot of folks who haven't watched a ton of his games and just have watched his highlights, youtube videos, etc. And it's pretty much the opposite for Bouknight — he's underrated in the passing/vision department.

[retrobro90]

Bouk was second on UConn in AST per game. More of a function of UConn than anything. The dude definitely looks to score first, but mixes in some nice passes. He's a better passer than Jalen Green and arguably better than Suggs as well, IMO.

Wow. GROD I gotta disagree pretty strongly on this one. I think Suggs' passing touch/IQ/diversity/volume trumps Bouknight's pretty comfortably. I really don't know what the case would be for Bouknight here but I'd be willing to hear you out.

Well, you can watch the tape for yourself, but feel free to find some clips that have been posted on twitter by myself and others. Suggs played in arguably the best context in all of college basketball next to Kispert, Nembhard, and Timme, with Mark Few as a coach. He's a really nice passer, not arguing that, but his numbers are inflated relative to other prospects' because the context was so good. Same thing with Davion Mitchell and Baylor. Context at UConn was quite terrible. I think outside of Bouknight there was like one other guy who was solid from 3. As a team, they ranked in 35th percentile in C&S plays and ran P&Rs just 15% of the time.

I mean, I know their is the whole narrative that Suggs is a former QB so he has good vision and can make good reads and while that is all true, I think his passing ability is overblown by a lot of folks who haven't watched a ton of his games and just have watched his highlights, youtube videos, etc. And it's pretty much the opposite for Bouknight — he's underrated in the passing/vision department.

So I do appreciate the reply and I'm getting the impression we're gonna agree to disagree here but full disclosure: I've seen the tape. Watched both of these dudes and their squads pretty closely this past year as I'm sure you and much of the rest of the board likely has as we all have/had a vested interest in both of their names. I don't think it's unreasonable to nitpick certain areas of Suggs' passing and think that maybe he takes too many risky homerun passes or that he turns it over too much (or just think overall that maybe his passing is "overrated") but to me the film is pretty clear when it comes to who is more steadily comfortable/natural as a distributor between he and Bouknight.

When it comes to that team context you're talking about: I would argue that both of these guys have at least something to do with how their respective squads perform on offense. Especially if they're gonna be leaders/primary handlers etc. I understand that Gonzaga was insanely loaded with talent (and Few) and that UConn didn't have outstanding play finishers surrounding Bouknight as the team's heliocentric star so that does figure into my calculus here. But when it comes to play calling and what those teams do on offense I think a better passer would have set his guys up better than Bouknight did and that a worse passer would have brought down the ceiling of a great Gonzaga team. But thats my two pennies.

[thedoppelganger]

Read on Twitter

Unfortunate he's not likely to be in the 2022 draft. If France wins their semifinal against Serbia/Argentina, then they'd get to play a USA team that is stacked with lottery talent for next year's draft