Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread

[watsonthedragon]

To me, if we're more or less running it back and hoping for internal improvement, I would love to find a way to find a big mobile wing at the 4 like Nance or maybe JaMychal Green. Sliding JB and JT down gives us a BIG starting lineup with huge defensive potential. Run Smart-JB-JT-Nance-Rob and let Al and Fournier run the 2nd unit.

[Parliament10]

To me, if we're more or less running it back and hoping for internal improvement, I would love to find a way to find a big mobile wing at the 4 like Nance or maybe JaMychal Green. Sliding JB and JT down gives us a BIG starting lineup with huge defensive potential. Run Smart-JB-JT-Nance-Rob and let Al and Fournier run the 2nd unit.

That looks good.
Just have to figure out the 2nd Unit.

[Bohemian]

I think that if we let Fournier leave the message is clear: the goal is to have a Big Three in Beal, Brown and Tatum.

[Boss66]

Forsberg's latest options on pursuing Beal https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/how-celtics-can-make-jayson-tatum-bradley-beal-tandem-within-year

[Curmudgeon]

I see that Bradley Beal has supplanted Anthony Davis as Boston's new White Whale.

[Bohemian]

I see that Bradley Beal has supplanted Anthony Davis as Boston's new White Whale.

Davis never wanted to play with Tatum

[Tyakack]

The more I look at it.........the more I feel like beal to boston is a done deal. Without needing to trade for him. This is looking even more obvious than the kyrie and KD hookup before it happened. Look at Beal and Tatum's recent comments about one another. Beal even admits there will probably be alot of talk about teaming up in the future. Like come on.....

You're very naive if you think tatum isn't going to be recruiting the hell out of beal to join him in boston when they play together in the Olympics. You think Beal is gonna turn his best friend down AND a legit chance at a championship? My money says no. *Insert it's happening gif*. I'm calling it.

Well Beal Brown and Tatum arent better than Harden Kyrie and Durand but they’re younger and healthier.

Can Beal play point ? He is by definition a SG right ? So the idea is to move Tatum permanently at the 4 if we do this.

Beal has the ability to play PG but yes he is more of a SG. Also, they might not be better on paper but they would have enough talent to where they could beat the nets in a series.

Tatum and Brown are not done getting better where as harden durant and kyrie are already at their peak and injury prone. The rockets on paper weren't better than the warriors when they had them 3-2 and one win away from the finals. They probably get there too if CP3 didn't get hurt that year.

You don't need to be better than someone on paper to beat them you just have to have the talent necessary to beat them. If that's the case then anything can happen. The NBA isn't played on paper but you do need the talent to win. We would have the talent with tatum beal and brown.

[Curmudgeon]

I see that Bradley Beal has supplanted Anthony Davis as Boston's new White Whale.

Davis never wanted to play with Tatum

So? Davis was also a free agent at the end if the year. Beal isn't.
I'd be hunting different whales, like Tyrese Halliburton, Darius Garland, Josh Hart or DeAnthony Melton. You might find some ambergris in that cost controlled blubber.

[Tyakack]

I see that Bradley Beal has supplanted Anthony Davis as Boston's new White Whale.

Davis never wanted to play with Tatum

So? Davis was also a free agent at the end if the year. Beal isn't.
I'd be hunting different whales, like Tyrese Halliburton, Darius Garland, Josh Hart or DeAnthony Melton. You might find some ambergris in that cost controlled blubber.

Beal can become a free agent at the end of next season if he wants to... And this is nothing like Anthony Davis. Davis never wanted to be here. Beal's best friend is here. He actually has a legit reason to wanna possibly come here. Even if he doesn't, not even remotely the same scenario.

[Curmudgeon]

Yes, the difference is that Beal wouldn't have to be persuaded to resign long term if the Celtics acquired him. But Beal isn't as dominant a player as AD.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Beal's not a great defender and we'd have too much scoring - is Brown going to take a back seat and then stick around in free agency?

Beal is good, but what else can you do with Fournier/Smart/TTT/Rob/Romeo/Nesmith/picks? Keep some, deal others and you could be better off than with Beal - especially because you'd be left with no depth.

[Slax]

Beal's not a great defender and we'd have too much scoring

Beal is probably a worse than average defender, but not a gaping hole, and his contributions on offense drastically outweigh whatever we would have to cover for on defense. I don't know what you mean by "too much scoring" though. That's only a few guys who are interested in creating their own shot, and Beal is a pretty good passer, so I don't see why Tatum, Beal, and Brown wouldn't fit well together on offense.

is Brown going to take a back seat and then stick around in free agency?

Decent chance he won't, but I don't think it makes much sense to plan out more than three or four years at this point. Good chance Brown and/or Tatum leave when their contracts are up no matter what we do, because these days star players only hang around until their current contract is up if even then. We have two stars in their primes under contract for 3+ more years, and it's time to put a team together and win a championship with them (or trade them for players who can) while they're here, then deal with whatever fallout comes from that if/when it happens.

Beal is good, but what else can you do with Fournier/Smart/TTT/Rob/Romeo/Nesmith/picks? Keep some, deal others and you could be better off than with Beal - especially because you'd be left with no depth.

First I think you have to be more specific about your alternative. Who do you think we can actually get and for how much that would put us in a better position than Beal?

Second, I think you're drastically underrating how much talent we can keep while getting Beal, if he wants to come here. Yes obviously we would have to lose some guys, but so long as you get him in a S&T, you can keep either Smart or Fournier or Rob, you can add a non-taxpayer MLE, and you can opt into a few rookie contracts. Not really much of an issue imo. If they agree to trade him this offseason or during the season, we won't even be hard capped at the apron and could just keep whoever we didn't give up in the trade. This only becomes a real problem if the Wizards won't play ball and we have to sign him into cap space, because we would have to spend most of the remaining space opting into a few rookie contracts and then adding one vet with the room MLE - not a very appealing prospect, although better than an alternative team that doesn't have Beal imo.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Beal's not a great defender and we'd have too much scoring

Beal is probably a worse than average defender, but not a gaping hole, and his contributions on offense drastically outweigh whatever we would have to cover for on defense. I don't know what you mean by "too much scoring" though. That's only a few guys who are interested in creating their own shot, and Beal is a pretty good passer, so I don't see why Tatum, Beal, and Brown wouldn't fit well together on offense.

is Brown going to take a back seat and then stick around in free agency?

Decent chance he won't, but I don't think it makes much sense to plan out more than three or four years at this point. Good chance Brown and/or Tatum leave when their contracts are up no matter what we do, because these days star players only hang around until their current contract is up if even then. We have two stars in their primes under contract for 3+ more years, and it's time to put a team together and win a championship with them (or trade them for players who can) while they're here, then deal with whatever fallout comes from that if/when it happens.

Beal is good, but what else can you do with Fournier/Smart/TTT/Rob/Romeo/Nesmith/picks? Keep some, deal others and you could be better off than with Beal - especially because you'd be left with no depth.

First I think you have to be more specific about your alternative. Who do you think we can actually get and for how much that would put us in a better position than Beal?

Second, I think you're drastically underrating how much talent we can keep while getting Beal, if he wants to come here. Yes obviously we would have to lose some guys, but so long as you get him in a S&T, you can keep either Smart or Fournier or Rob, you can add a non-taxpayer MLE, and you can opt into a few rookie contracts. Not really much of an issue imo. If they agree to trade him this offseason or during the season, we won't even be hard capped at the apron and could just keep whoever we didn't give up in the trade. This only becomes a real problem if the Wizards won't play ball and we have to sign him into cap space, because we would have to spend most of the remaining space opting into a few rookie contracts and then adding one vet with the room MLE - not a very appealing prospect, although better than an alternative team that doesn't have Beal imo.

You think Jaylen will be happy dropping from 24 points a game to 17, especially as he gets better?

I don’t know alternatives to Beal except speculatively..

With the KG trade they somehow kept Rondo, TA, Glen Davis and Perk.. any of them would have been the second best player outgoing in the deal.

Say we keep the current group and the deal is Smart, Fournier, Nesmith, Grant and 1-3 1sts this January.. you’re left with:

Pritchard
Beal/Langford
Brown
Tatum
Horford/TT/Rob
plus whoever 13-15 are.. Moses, Kornet, Semi, other..

You’re out picks, no cap, Horford is almost done, Rob is a wildcard.. If he turns into a (healthy) star rim protector, you’re contending, that’s a GS caliber “big four”.. but zero perimeter depth and no decent point guard. Don’t think they’re any better than the Kyrie team that made the conference finals, and you can only fill out the bench with old ring-chasers.. You end up “in the mix” but on the treadmill.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Just don’t think the timing is great for Beal.. ideally you let Romeo/Nesmith develop another year, “win” a couple of trades (Smart, Fournier, TT or Al) and make a play in the summer..

[Tyakack]

The timing couldn't be better for beal. It's literally set up perfectly to happen. If he wants to come here he can and will... And you don't turn down beal for "depth". Stars win in this league. Everything else is such a distant second it's not even worth talking about until you get the stars.

[Theocy]

Beal's not a great defender and we'd have too much scoring

Beal is probably a worse than average defender, but not a gaping hole, and his contributions on offense drastically outweigh whatever we would have to cover for on defense. I don't know what you mean by "too much scoring" though. That's only a few guys who are interested in creating their own shot, and Beal is a pretty good passer, so I don't see why Tatum, Beal, and Brown wouldn't fit well together on offense.

is Brown going to take a back seat and then stick around in free agency?

Decent chance he won't, but I don't think it makes much sense to plan out more than three or four years at this point. Good chance Brown and/or Tatum leave when their contracts are up no matter what we do, because these days star players only hang around until their current contract is up if even then. We have two stars in their primes under contract for 3+ more years, and it's time to put a team together and win a championship with them (or trade them for players who can) while they're here, then deal with whatever fallout comes from that if/when it happens.

Beal is good, but what else can you do with Fournier/Smart/TTT/Rob/Romeo/Nesmith/picks? Keep some, deal others and you could be better off than with Beal - especially because you'd be left with no depth.

First I think you have to be more specific about your alternative. Who do you think we can actually get and for how much that would put us in a better position than Beal?

Second, I think you're drastically underrating how much talent we can keep while getting Beal, if he wants to come here. Yes obviously we would have to lose some guys, but so long as you get him in a S&T, you can keep either Smart or Fournier or Rob, you can add a non-taxpayer MLE, and you can opt into a few rookie contracts. Not really much of an issue imo. If they agree to trade him this offseason or during the season, we won't even be hard capped at the apron and could just keep whoever we didn't give up in the trade. This only becomes a real problem if the Wizards won't play ball and we have to sign him into cap space, because we would have to spend most of the remaining space opting into a few rookie contracts and then adding one vet with the room MLE - not a very appealing prospect, although better than an alternative team that doesn't have Beal imo.

You think Jaylen will be happy dropping from 24 points a game to 17, especially as he gets better?

I don’t know alternatives to Beal except speculatively..

With the KG trade they somehow kept Rondo, TA, Glen Davis and Perk.. any of them would have been the second best player outgoing in the deal.

Say we keep the current group and the deal is Smart, Fournier, Nesmith, Grant and 1-3 1sts this January.. you’re left with:

Pritchard
Beal/Langford
Brown
Tatum
Horford/TT/Rob
plus whoever 13-15 are.. Moses, Kornet, Semi, other..

You’re out picks, no cap, Horford is almost done, Rob is a wildcard.. If he turns into a (healthy) star rim protector, you’re contending, that’s a GS caliber “big four”.. but zero perimeter depth and no decent point guard. Don’t think they’re any better than the Kyrie team that made the conference finals, and you can only fill out the bench with old ring-chasers.. You end up “in the mix” but on the treadmill.

Well it’s not that bad though is it ? With all due respect, You’re assuming both brown and tatum have peaked. I think Tatum might jump to all nba level and Brown could potentially make another big step to being a legit all star. If that happens and you add beal in the mix you have a trio that can legitimately five you 65-80 points a night. That’s halfway there is it not ? You’ll need your veteran ring chasers and there are a few who would be willing to join if you are a contender.

We wont be the best reg season team no. Depth is an issue. But given we get a bit of luck with health you need to be 8-9 man deep in post season. So we’re missing 2 solid backups from having a well rounded team.

[Slax]

Beal's not a great defender and we'd have too much scoring

Beal is probably a worse than average defender, but not a gaping hole, and his contributions on offense drastically outweigh whatever we would have to cover for on defense. I don't know what you mean by "too much scoring" though. That's only a few guys who are interested in creating their own shot, and Beal is a pretty good passer, so I don't see why Tatum, Beal, and Brown wouldn't fit well together on offense.

is Brown going to take a back seat and then stick around in free agency?

Decent chance he won't, but I don't think it makes much sense to plan out more than three or four years at this point. Good chance Brown and/or Tatum leave when their contracts are up no matter what we do, because these days star players only hang around until their current contract is up if even then. We have two stars in their primes under contract for 3+ more years, and it's time to put a team together and win a championship with them (or trade them for players who can) while they're here, then deal with whatever fallout comes from that if/when it happens.

Beal is good, but what else can you do with Fournier/Smart/TTT/Rob/Romeo/Nesmith/picks? Keep some, deal others and you could be better off than with Beal - especially because you'd be left with no depth.

First I think you have to be more specific about your alternative. Who do you think we can actually get and for how much that would put us in a better position than Beal?

Second, I think you're drastically underrating how much talent we can keep while getting Beal, if he wants to come here. Yes obviously we would have to lose some guys, but so long as you get him in a S&T, you can keep either Smart or Fournier or Rob, you can add a non-taxpayer MLE, and you can opt into a few rookie contracts. Not really much of an issue imo. If they agree to trade him this offseason or during the season, we won't even be hard capped at the apron and could just keep whoever we didn't give up in the trade. This only becomes a real problem if the Wizards won't play ball and we have to sign him into cap space, because we would have to spend most of the remaining space opting into a few rookie contracts and then adding one vet with the room MLE - not a very appealing prospect, although better than an alternative team that doesn't have Beal imo.

You think Jaylen will be happy dropping from 24 points a game to 17, especially as he gets better?

On the contrary, I think that there is a high likelihood that by the end the 2.5 years you get of Tatum, Beal, and Brown under contract together, Brown would become frustrated with his role and would have a high likelihood of leaving. But that means you get three shots at a championship with those three together. Or you could trade Brown in a year or two before he leaves to get some talent back before he goes, but honestly I would try to just take three stabs at a championship with that Tatum/Beal/Brown three-headed beast.

I don’t know alternatives to Beal except speculatively..

With the KG trade they somehow kept Rondo, TA, Glen Davis and Perk.. any of them would have been the second best player outgoing in the deal.

I don't understand what this is illustrating.

Say we keep the current group and the deal is Smart, Fournier, Nesmith, Grant and 1-3 1sts this January.. you’re left with:

Pritchard
Beal/Langford
Brown
Tatum
Horford/TT/Rob
plus whoever 13-15 are.. Moses, Kornet, Semi, other..

You’re out picks, no cap, Horford is almost done, Rob is a wildcard.. If he turns into a (healthy) star rim protector, you’re contending, that’s a GS caliber “big four”.. but zero perimeter depth and no decent point guard. Don’t think they’re any better than the Kyrie team that made the conference finals, and you can only fill out the bench with old ring-chasers.. You end up “in the mix” but on the treadmill.

Fournier wouldn't make sense to be outgoing in a trade to the Wizards during the 2021-22 season. They wouldn't want his multi-year deal, and we would prefer not to give him up. You can do a salary match with just Smart, TT, and Nesmith (plus Grant for talent if you want to include him, but it's not necessary for salary matching). Even in your proposed high end deal with three draft picks, we would still have one draft pick and three swaps left to trade, and rights to Yam is probably worth similar to a late first based on his recent performance. We would also have a TPE and the taxpayer MLE. Based on his performance last year before OKC shut him down so they could tank and keep him healthy, Horford probably has at least one decent season left in him unless he gets injured, although obviously he's going to be a shadow of what he was for us five years ago.

So overall after the trade you proposed, you're looking at Tatum, Brown, Beal, Fournier, Horford, Rob, PP, Langford, a few rookie contract rotation guys, taxpayer MLE, and some potential trade bait to fill in holes either during the season or in the following offseason. It's a little thin, sure, but not exceptionally thin, especially if we see development from Langford and/or PP. How many recent assembled contenders were that much deeper than that when their stars were first brought together?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Sorry, my point was that after the KG trade we had held onto our best young players and had more depth than we would with a full sticker price Beal trade.

Smart/TT/Nesmith? Sure. You could try to trade Fournier for a big or a point, maybe you can use the TPE on Nance or KA at the start of the year..

But Pritchard is just a roleplayer, Langford might not reach his ceiling, Rob is still inconsistent and injury-prone.. it’s a very very top-heavy roster.

If you could get Tyus Jones and Kyle Anderson from Memphis for Fournier, sign Nerlens Noel, Solomon Hill and say, Elfrid Payton, Robin Lopez, Garrett Temple to vet minimum deals..

Jones/Payton 1/Payton 2
Beal/Langford/Temple
Brown/Hill
Tatum/KA/Grant
Horford/Rob/Noel/Lopez

But that’s a “dream team” of cheap, experienced players..

[threrf23]

Read on Twitter

[cloverleaf]

I missed this:

"Any team's march into later playoff rounds also prompts rivals searching to brain drain from a successful front office, and the rumors linking Hawks assistant general manager Landry Fields have not quieted either, sources said. Amid ongoing questions about the future structure of Boston's basketball operations, Fields very much remains a top choice of Stevens and Celtics ownership to join Boston as the team's general manager, sources told B/R.

At just 33, Fields is widely considered a rising front-office name in the industry, known as a former pro capable of winning favor with today's players while also boasting the credentials and polish that come from a full four years at Stanford. Fields rose quickly through the San Antonio Spurs' vaunted scouting department that has already produced Sam Presti and Sean Marks, among others.

Atlanta could simply block the Celtics' pursuit by elevating Fields to the same post underneath Hawks president Travis Schlenk, who currently holds the title of general manager. In that scenario, it's believed Boston's vice president of player development and former WNBA veteran Allison Feaster would be the leading candidate to be named general manager under Stevens. The 45-year-old was the only Celtics figure aside from ownership and Stevens who partook in Ime Udoka's final interview, sources said. “It seems like she's getting some serious traction,” said one assistant general manager. "

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945530-everything-has-changed-hawks-surprising-ecf-run-has-expensive-ripple-effects