Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[NinjaBro]

3 weeks until Suggs is a Raptor

I haven't been this excited for a rookie since Vince Carter tbh.

[ciueli]

That's an interesting comparison, though I'll say that Cunningham is a better consensus 1 prospect than Bogut - or at least sexier/more exciting. Iirc even at the time no one was really projecting Bogut to have superstar upside - just a high floor nba ready 7 foot center with a good college resume, at a time when that was still considered the most coveted franchise building block

I wonder where he would go if that exact same draft class came out in 2021 - or even where his type of center would be valued in this years draft

Bogut was never that "generational big" but I would argue there was certainly some projections that he would be much more than he ended up. he was also pretty well the consensus #1 from post to post much like Cade.

While I agree Bogut wasn't as sexy pick in hindsight the most common compatibles were Vlade Divac / Kevin McHale which is pretty high praise when as you noted in 2005 that big man was considered a franchise building block. He had the body but there was that potential to grow into so much more.

As for 2021;
Its a good question.

Bogut was a legit seven footer and was doing the things he was doing in Utah @ 250lbs
There was no "if he can only add X lbs to absorb contact or he just needs to add strength" he was good to go it was just a matter of can this kid do the things he did in college against NBA talent, and I am not sure if you have that sort of center in this draft.

If a 20 year old Bogut with that college resume comes up in 2021, my feeling is between 6 and 9 maybe higher because of him being a ready baked NBA center but the 3PT shooting maybe causes more issues and he falls a bit?

The Bogut pick needs to be viewed in light of what the league was in 2005 - one completely dominated by superstar big men. Tim Duncan and Shaq were the best players on 6 of the last 7 title teams and everyone was desperately searching for size to counter them. It was the era where the mantra was "never trade big for small" and the most important part of team building was an old school 7 foot big man center.

Now the league has completely flipped, it's a guard dominated league. People would laugh at the idea that you "don't trade big for small" because in a lot of cases the big get played off the court due to his inability to guard smaller perimeter players (Brook Lopez in game 1 of the finals, any Brooklyn Nets player bigger than Kevin Durant in the Bucks/Nets series).

[mtcan]

Raptors shock the world and takes Chris Duarte 4

fixed.

[WuTang_OG]

CBS latest mock.

Green rising from 4 to 2 on their big board but still being mocked at 3.

Suggs to us at 4.

Kuminga falling on their big board but still being mocked at 5.

Boucknight rising to 8.

Watch on YouTube

Perfect. Their next one will have Mobley going 4

[WuTang_OG]

There are a lot of comparisons around here to the 2003 draft, but I think I draw the most similarities with potentially the 2005 draft.

Granted the positions of the guys is different but you had your consensus 1st overall in Bogut, you had the guy who just had the body, the athleticism and the potential for days in Marvin Williams, the guy who could score for days in Deron Williams, and the guy who was the most NBA ready but questions surrounding his ceiling in Chris Paul.

Those were the four guys (with Deron Williams rounding it out after the NCAA tourny). There was tons of talk about if Martell Webster when he developed would become elite, lots of talk about Ray Felton coming out of that incredible team @ UConn but ultimately those four guys went four in a row. This is one of those drafts that I am content to not over think and end up with any of those four guys.

Imagine if Green dropped to us and he ends up being Joey Graham v2.0.

But Graham is so jacked.....
He couldn't possibly fail in the NBA.

Nobody on this board remembers why u said that

[YelloC]

3 weeks until Suggs is a Raptor

I haven't been this excited for a rookie since Vince Carter tbh.

I’m nearly as excited for our 2 second rounders. The odds are pretty good that 1 of those picks ends up being top 10 player from this draft.
I’m pretty sure Norm was a 46th pick.

[Chandan]

Imagine if Green dropped to us and he ends up being Joey Graham v2.0.

But Graham is so jacked.....
He couldn't possibly fail in the NBA.

Nobody on this board remembers why u said that

We should have drafted the less jacked twin

[YelloC]

Raptors shock the world and takes Chris Duarte 4

fixed.

…….and 5 years out it ends up being the right pick.
Kidding aside, I actually think Chris Duarte will outplay a bunch of people picked in front of him.
What he lacks in potential he gains with his fit in today’s NBA.

[kj_]

Read on Twitter

yeah so it’ll probably take OG and at least one or even two 1st rounders to move up to get Cade

Why would the Cavs do this? If they think the Pistons want Mobley and Houston wants Green, then there is a real chance that Cade could fall to them. Then they get to keep the other assets as well.

If the Pistons want Mobley, are they really going to draft Cade if no one trades for the 1? I think there is a really good chance Cade will be there at 3.


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Houston only wants Green because they assume Cade is gone. These kind of trades happen fairly often. Celtics would have taken Tatum #1 but traded down to pick up an extra asset. Same for Atlanta and Luka.

Maybe, but also could be they like Green better. Same as Pistons liking Mobley best.

There is a real chance Cade falls to the Cavs if they sit tight.


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[kj_]

Read on Twitter

yeah so it’ll probably take OG and at least one or even two 1st rounders to move up to get Cade

Why would the Cavs do this? If they think the Pistons want Mobley and Houston wants Green, then there is a real chance that Cade could fall to them. Then they get to keep the other assets as well.

If the Pistons want Mobley, are they really going to draft Cade if no one trades for the 1? I think there is a really good chance Cade will be there at 3.


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Houston only wants Green because they assume Cade is gone. These kind of trades happen fairly often. Celtics would have taken Tatum #1 but traded down to pick up an extra asset. Same for Atlanta and Luka.

I agree the Pistons should be trying to gain an asset if they don’t want Cade. But for the Cavs to give up lots to select a player they may get anyway doesn’t seem like a winning move. Especially when Green, Mobley or Suggs are all so close.


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[Bruin]

Blake Murphy has to be high if he thinks Thor has any actual chance of being available at our pick, let alone undrafted

https://theathletic.com/2691416/2021/07/08/nba-draft-prospects-six-bigs-the-raptors-could-select-with-picks-no-46-and-47/

JT Thor, Auburn (freshman), 6-foot-9.25, 203 lbs., 7-foot-3.25 wingspan, 18 years old
Vecenie board: 54, Vecenie mock: 51, Composite board: 30

Strengths: Great length including large hands and one of the highest standing reaches at the combine, good fluidity as an athlete with great open-floor speed, excellent weak-side shot-blocker, literally named Thor.

Concerns: Limited, though improving, small sample of jump shooting, needs to add strength to turn size and effort into rebounds, has interesting combo-forward dimensions but defense is inconsistent outside of paint.

Raptors fit: Has the length, shot-blocking and athletic tools that a strong player development department will look at and deem worthy of a flier, especially with his age and developmental runway.

If he goes undrafted, I will come down on the NBA like the hammer of Thor. The thunder of my vengeance will echo through Summer League like the gust of a thousand winds!

[Son Goku 25]

Lol Thor will be an all star or a borderline all star he's too skilled and has length not to be

[Jadoogar]

Why would the Cavs do this? If they think the Pistons want Mobley and Houston wants Green, then there is a real chance that Cade could fall to them. Then they get to keep the other assets as well.

If the Pistons want Mobley, are they really going to draft Cade if no one trades for the 1? I think there is a really good chance Cade will be there at 3.


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Houston only wants Green because they assume Cade is gone. These kind of trades happen fairly often. Celtics would have taken Tatum #1 but traded down to pick up an extra asset. Same for Atlanta and Luka.

I agree the Pistons should be trying to gain an asset if they don’t want Cade. But for the Cavs to give up lots to select a player they may get anyway doesn’t seem like a winning move. Especially when Green, Mobley or Suggs are all so close.


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Unless you KNOW houston is going pass on Cade, it's a pretty big risk.

[Psubs]

Lol Thor will be an all star or a borderline all star he's too skilled and has length not to be

Thon

[WuTang_OG]

Watch on YouTube

[raptor jesus]

Thor definitely has a wow factor to him, but his numbers are rather underwhelming. I don't mean raw numbers, I mean his advanced numbers - inefficient (surprising for a guy with his physical gifts at the college level), TO% double his AST%, just an ok rebounder, middling impact stats. I guess that's why he's not mocked higher; but I see him much more of a flyer than a guy likely to find a place in a rotation in the league.

[Troubadour]

Thor definitely has a wow factor to him, but his numbers are rather underwhelming. I don't mean raw numbers, I mean his advanced numbers - inefficient (surprising for a guy with his physical gifts at the college level), TO% double his AST%, just an ok rebounder, middling impact stats. I guess that's why he's not mocked higher; but I see him much more of a flyer than a guy likely to find a place in a rotation in the league.

I think Thor will end up going in the first round. 6'10 shot blockers who can hit threes off the dribble are rare.

[phanman]

Suns made the finals by having the opposing team lose their best/second best player to injury in every series. They would have lost every series they played if their opponent was healthy.

I'm happy they're here and will likely win the title, but they don't have some special team-building formula.

They wouldn't have lost every series with everybody healthy, that's just ridiculous. CP3 was injured in the Lakers series too and missed a few games against the Clips with COVID. Give credit when its due man.

Also they do have some special team building formula, as evidenced by James Jones winning EOTY. Sure the trade for CP3 seems like a no brainer as the major key difference but they still had to make the inquiry and ultimately make the trade for his bloated salary.

With that said it was more than just Paul that has made the difference this season: stealing Crowder away from Miami on his bargain 3/30m was crucial, reaching for Cam Johnson @11 was universally ridiculed, the midseason addition of Craig is going to play an even bigger role with Saric out, and finally plucking Cam Payne from China/The G-League has been huge piece off their bench and spot starter when Chris missed games. The organization made the concerted effort to find role players that fit in perfectly around their core guys and we are seeing them reap the benefits of doing so now in their Finals run.

OT: Honestly with the guys made available, the 4th pick should be an easy selection just based on a process of elimination. The top 4 are essentially locks, it just depends on who goes where and we get whomever is left standing.

They would have lost to a healthy Lakers. They barely scraped by the Clippers without Kawhi. The only team they would have had a chance against is a healthy Nuggets.

They had the benefit of not playing against Kawhi and AD, two top-10 players. That is the only reason they are in the finals right now.

They're a good team, but they are hardly a formula that can be replicated because their success was heavily reliant on luck.

Suns path to the finals:
R1: AD injured
R2: Murray and Barton injured
R3: Kawhi injured

I guess every champion/success is lucky than because every championship team faces some team dealing with injuries. You play whose in front of you.

The Suns went through their own injury issues with Chris Paul a shell of himself in that very Lakers series and then contract COVID prior to the Clips series missing 2 games himself and once again playing below his standards in the 2 games he returned. They blew the Clips out in G6 on the road so i'd hardly call that scraping by.

[Troubadour]

How do you all think OG, Kuminga and Pascal would fit together?

[WuTang_OG]

Read on Twitter

These vids are really good. Mobleys out today