Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[raptor jesus]

I've gone back to Kuminga tape several times, and I keep coming away underwhelmed. I know he's a work in progress from a skill and feel perspective, but even athletically he looks kinda slow to me, especially with the ball. Ok, he can blow by Henry Ellenson and Poku; but against speedier defenders, it really looks like a struggle for him as he has to spin away or back down guys. I just don't see the explosiveness some have talked about - I think he's gonna have to rely more on strength and craftiness.

[WuTang_OG]

Watch on YouTube

[canada_dry]

Suggs is a smaller lonzo?

Lonzo is like a 0% finisher in the paint. U guys think fvv is bad...lol zo is awful. Suggs finishes at above 60% in the paint.

Lonzo STILL isnt very good in the pick n roll, came into the league not even knowing how to do it. Pick n roll is something suggs excels in.

Lonzos biggest weaknesses are suggs biggest strengths. I don't see the comparison other than They're both big guards.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[VancouverRaps]

I've gone back to Kuminga tape several times, and I keep coming away underwhelmed. I know he's a work in progress from a skill and feel perspective, but even athletically he looks kinda slow to me, especially with the ball. Ok, he can blow by Henry Ellenson and Poku; but against speedier defenders, it really looks like a struggle for him as he has to spin away or back down guys. I just don't see the explosiveness some have talked about - I think he's gonna have to rely more on strength and craftiness.

I agree, I mean I can see why people are excited for his upside, but I also don't think he should be a lock at #5 either which seems to be a forgone conclusion according to a lot of folks.

[ciueli]

How do you all think OG, Kuminga and Pascal would fit together?

Poor because Kuminga is a below 30% 3 point shooter.

[Mehar]

I've gone back to Kuminga tape several times, and I keep coming away underwhelmed. I know he's a work in progress from a skill and feel perspective, but even athletically he looks kinda slow to me, especially with the ball. Ok, he can blow by Henry Ellenson and Poku; but against speedier defenders, it really looks like a struggle for him as he has to spin away or back down guys. I just don't see the explosiveness some have talked about - I think he's gonna have to rely more on strength and craftiness.

I said this a couple of weeks to some posters who were saying the Raptors should draft Kuminga over Suggs. He has good potential, but no way the Raptors should draft him over Suggs at 4. I feel the same way about Scottie Barnes as well. Raptors should not draft Kuming or Barnes over Suggs at 4. It would be a long-term mistake.

[Risk101]

They both worked out for the Raps and then withdrew from the draft?

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[WuTang_OG]

https://youtu.be/DcegfhwKvOE?t=727
mobley to raps discussion

[S.W.A.N]

With three weeks till the big day, I going to shout my dreams to the world... I want Barnes! Preferably as trade down (Obviously with Orlando or Oklahoma)

I think it far more likely we end up with Suggs, or one of the other 'big four' and I'd be totally happy with any of those guys as I think they all are elite prospects, but I love what Barnes can be if he's developed properly. I see him going through a few years of development on his shooting and becoming a monster. He has that Ben Simmons/Draymond Green game... And just like those guys even without a shot he can be valuable, but if he can develop one... Sky is the limit.

The other guy that I'd love in the same drop down scenario is Kuminga. Another super high upside guy that needs to be in the right system to get the development he needs.

If Barnes or Kuminga fell to 7 and we did the Golden State deal...
Suggs
Barnes/Kuminga
Moody/Bouknight/Sengun/Wagner/ whoever the bpa is that falls to 14.

That is a major influx of young talent.

Going to be a fascinating draft night. So many ways our team can go depending on how Masai views our current roster. If he thinks we only a few pieces away, then no trades and just draft BPA, then shore up roster with free agent or trade.

Team not good enough to compete? Get multiple high draft picks and build around our young guys. Either way I comfortable that our front office will make the right call.

[niQ]

I haven't been this invested in the draft since the Valanciunas and Ross years.

[MavCarter]

With three weeks till the big day, I going to shout my dreams to the world... I want Barnes! Preferably as trade down (Obviously with Orlando or Oklahoma)

I think it far more likely we end up with Suggs, or one of the other 'big four' and I'd be totally happy with any of those guys as I think they all are elite prospects, but I love what Barnes can be if he's developed properly. I see him going through a few years of development on his shooting and becoming a monster. He has that Ben Simmons/Draymond Green game... And just like those guys even without a shot he can be valuable, but if he can develop one... Sky is the limit.

The other guy that I'd love in the same drop down scenario is Kuminga. Another super high upside guy that needs to be in the right system to get the development he needs.

If Barnes or Kuminga fell to 7 and we did the Golden State deal...
Suggs
Barnes/Kuminga
Moody/Bouknight/Sengun/Wagner/ whoever the bpa is that falls to 14.

That is a major influx of young talent.

Going to be a fascinating draft night. So many ways our team can go depending on how Masai views our current roster. If he thinks we only a few pieces away, then no trades and just draft BPA, then shore up roster with free agent or trade.

Team not good enough to compete? Get multiple high draft picks and build around our young guys. Either way I comfortable that our front office will make the right call.

Tbh i wouldnt mind barnes either. I think 5 years from now people are going to wonder how teams passed up on a 19 year old 6'9 kid with a 7'2 wingspan who can legitimately guard all 5 positions and handle/create like he's a PG. So intrigued to see what he can become in a good organization like OKC. If OKC can develop his shot...whew

[Mikistan]

I haven't been this invested in the draft since the Valanciunas and Ross years.

You mean since the last time we had our own lottery pick?

I guess you didn't care much about the year we had new York's pick and got poeltl lol

[Dalek]

https://youtu.be/DcegfhwKvOE?t=727
mobley to raps discussion

People like to talk about Evan Mobley to the Raps, but in every other case they say that Mobley is a fit for a rebuilding team to build around. These commentators leave out the part about Toronto's own timeline. I think we are trying to win now. A Mobley would be great, but to me forces a reset of our timeline.

He isn't going to be great right away so how do we handle Mobley without rushing him, while also being competitive, while also filling the hole at PG when Kyle leaves? To me, a Mobley pick means starting over.

[canada_dry]

I haven't been this invested in the draft since the Valanciunas and Ross years.

You mean since the last time we had our own lottery pick?

I guess you didn't care much about the year we had new York's pick and got poeltl lol

I remember those threads very well lol.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[MavCarter]

https://youtu.be/DcegfhwKvOE?t=727
mobley to raps discussion

People like to talk about Evan Mobley to the Raps, but in every other case they say that Mobley is a fit for a rebuilding team to build around. These commentators leave out the part about Toronto's own timeline. I think we are trying to win now. A Mobley would be great, but to me forces a reset of our timeline.

He isn't going to be great right away so how do we handle Mobley without rushing him, while also being competitive, while also filling the hole at PG when Kyle leaves? To me, a Mobley pick means starting over.

What are we trying to win now? This team isnt anywhere near contention. You take the BPA with the highest upside regardless of timeline

[phanman]

Suggs is a smaller lonzo?

Lonzo is like a 0% finisher in the paint. U guys think fvv is bad...lol zo is awful. Suggs finishes at above 60% in the paint.

Lonzo STILL isnt very good in the pick n roll, came into the league not even knowing how to do it. Pick n roll is something suggs excels in.

Lonzos biggest weaknesses are suggs biggest strengths. I don't see the comparison other than They're both big guards.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Since he's entered the league he's improved his finishes at the rim =>60% and just converted 62.6% this season vs Freddy who plummeted to 53% this season, so they aren't comparable at all.

Does Zo' pretty much just shoot 3's? Yeah but he can and does finish in the paint when uses his size there. He has improved his PnR game with Holiday gone as well, this article highlights it well: https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2021/04/13/lonzo-ball-film-room-pick-and-roll-pelicans/

"Last season, pick-and-roll possessions accounted for 26.4% of Ball’s offensive possessions, and he ranked in the 11th percentile in the league in them. This season, they accounted for 22.5% of his possessions and he ranks in the 86th percentile."

[DG88]

Read on Twitter

These vids are really good. Mobleys out today

Can't wait for Suggs one.

Also, Adam Spinella on YouTube is creating draft primer videos for each team it looks like so far he's got the Cavs, Kings and Pelicans.

[Marty_Budda]

With three weeks till the big day, I going to shout my dreams to the world... I want Barnes! Preferably as trade down (Obviously with Orlando or Oklahoma)

I think it far more likely we end up with Suggs, or one of the other 'big four' and I'd be totally happy with any of those guys as I think they all are elite prospects, but I love what Barnes can be if he's developed properly. I see him going through a few years of development on his shooting and becoming a monster. He has that Ben Simmons/Draymond Green game... And just like those guys even without a shot he can be valuable, but if he can develop one... Sky is the limit.

The other guy that I'd love in the same drop down scenario is Kuminga. Another super high upside guy that needs to be in the right system to get the development he needs.

If Barnes or Kuminga fell to 7 and we did the Golden State deal...
Suggs
Barnes/Kuminga
Moody/Bouknight/Sengun/Wagner/ whoever the bpa is that falls to 14.

That is a major influx of young talent.

Going to be a fascinating draft night. So many ways our team can go depending on how Masai views our current roster. If he thinks we only a few pieces away, then no trades and just draft BPA, then shore up roster with free agent or trade.

Team not good enough to compete? Get multiple high draft picks and build around our young guys. Either way I comfortable that our front office will make the right call.

Tbh i wouldnt mind barnes either. I think 5 years from now people are going to wonder how teams passed up on a 19 year old 6'9 kid with a 7'2 wingspan who can legitimately guard all 5 positions and handle/create like he's a PG. So intrigued to see what he can become in a good organization like OKC. If OKC can develop his shot...whew

People always say this about every lanky guy that comes around with some semblance of ball handling skills. How often do they actually figure it out tho?! Giannis is a workhorse and an athletic freak yet he still struggles in the half court in closing moments cause he hasn’t figured out how to shoot. Barnes isn’t half as athletic or tall and odds are by the time he’s 25 he still won’t know how to shoot. I’ve legit never seen the guy take a jumper off the dribble in a real game to even give you some hope of him being able to create his own shot lol. He also has a very bad touch around the rim, no post game, if the defense is set he can’t do anything.

Barnes would do very well to get to even pascal’s level.

[WuTang_OG]

https://youtu.be/DcegfhwKvOE?t=727
mobley to raps discussion

People like to talk about Evan Mobley to the Raps, but in every other case they say that Mobley is a fit for a rebuilding team to build around. These commentators leave out the part about Toronto's own timeline. I think we are trying to win now. A Mobley would be great, but to me forces a reset of our timeline.

He isn't going to be great right away so how do we handle Mobley without rushing him, while also being competitive, while also filling the hole at PG when Kyle leaves? To me, a Mobley pick means starting over.

I disagree. It's not like FVV and Siakam are 33.

They are entering their primes at 27. If Mobley takes 2 years, they'll be 29. More than fine.

Keep winning while bringing him along. Which is why trading Siakam now is stupid.

And its not like we have any better options than Mobley. Birch and Boucher? Meh.

[Los_29]

With three weeks till the big day, I going to shout my dreams to the world... I want Barnes! Preferably as trade down (Obviously with Orlando or Oklahoma)

I think it far more likely we end up with Suggs, or one of the other 'big four' and I'd be totally happy with any of those guys as I think they all are elite prospects, but I love what Barnes can be if he's developed properly. I see him going through a few years of development on his shooting and becoming a monster. He has that Ben Simmons/Draymond Green game... And just like those guys even without a shot he can be valuable, but if he can develop one... Sky is the limit.

The other guy that I'd love in the same drop down scenario is Kuminga. Another super high upside guy that needs to be in the right system to get the development he needs.

If Barnes or Kuminga fell to 7 and we did the Golden State deal...
Suggs
Barnes/Kuminga
Moody/Bouknight/Sengun/Wagner/ whoever the bpa is that falls to 14.

That is a major influx of young talent.

Going to be a fascinating draft night. So many ways our team can go depending on how Masai views our current roster. If he thinks we only a few pieces away, then no trades and just draft BPA, then shore up roster with free agent or trade.

Team not good enough to compete? Get multiple high draft picks and build around our young guys. Either way I comfortable that our front office will make the right call.

Tbh i wouldnt mind barnes either. I think 5 years from now people are going to wonder how teams passed up on a 19 year old 6'9 kid with a 7'2 wingspan who can legitimately guard all 5 positions and handle/create like he's a PG. So intrigued to see what he can become in a good organization like OKC. If OKC can develop his shot...whew

How is OKC a good organization? And I actually think that'd be a bad fit for a raw player like Barnes considering he'd be surrounded by other young guys with no veteran leadership. It's actually a bit of a mess there to be honest. On paper, they are the worst team in the league along with Houston.