Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[Bruin]

USC coach says Evan Mobley could be "great fit" for Raptors in NBA draft

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/player-toronto-raptors-will-pick-2021-nba-draft

[douggood]

With three weeks till the big day, I going to shout my dreams to the world... I want Barnes! Preferably as trade down (Obviously with Orlando or Oklahoma)

I think it far more likely we end up with Suggs, or one of the other 'big four' and I'd be totally happy with any of those guys as I think they all are elite prospects, but I love what Barnes can be if he's developed properly. I see him going through a few years of development on his shooting and becoming a monster. He has that Ben Simmons/Draymond Green game... And just like those guys even without a shot he can be valuable, but if he can develop one... Sky is the limit.

The other guy that I'd love in the same drop down scenario is Kuminga. Another super high upside guy that needs to be in the right system to get the development he needs.

If Barnes or Kuminga fell to 7 and we did the Golden State deal...
Suggs
Barnes/Kuminga
Moody/Bouknight/Sengun/Wagner/ whoever the bpa is that falls to 14.

That is a major influx of young talent.

Going to be a fascinating draft night. So many ways our team can go depending on how Masai views our current roster. If he thinks we only a few pieces away, then no trades and just draft BPA, then shore up roster with free agent or trade.

Team not good enough to compete? Get multiple high draft picks and build around our young guys. Either way I comfortable that our front office will make the right call.

Tbh i wouldnt mind barnes either. I think 5 years from now people are going to wonder how teams passed up on a 19 year old 6'9 kid with a 7'2 wingspan who can legitimately guard all 5 positions and handle/create like he's a PG. So intrigued to see what he can become in a good organization like OKC. If OKC can develop his shot...whew

How is OKC a good organization? And I actually think that'd be a bad fit for a raw player like Barnes considering he'd be surrounded by other young guys with no veteran leadership. It's actually a bit of a mess there to be honest. On paper, they are the worst team in the league along with Houston.

OKC isnt the development hotbed, nor has presti lived up to his draft reputation for a while now

2020 poku - too early to tell
2019 - bazely - 23rd pick, a little to early to tell , but is a pf who shoots under .400 from field
2018 - no 1st
2017 - 21st overall terrance ferguson - flop
2016 - 11th overall Sabonis, was a flop in his rookie year before being traded to pacers
2015 - 14th cameron payne flop with okc
2014 - 21 mitch mcgary 29th josh huestus, flop flop
2013 - stven adam good
2012 perry jones flop
2011 reggie jackson good
2010 cole aldrige 11th overall, flop
2009 and backwards harden ibaka westbrook durant etc

[Sandman88]

I haven't been this invested in the draft since the Valanciunas and Ross years.

You mean since the last time we had our own lottery pick?

I guess you didn't care much about the year we had new York's pick and got poeltl lol

Haha everyone hoping marquise chriss fell to us. Dark times

[Los_29]

Tbh i wouldnt mind barnes either. I think 5 years from now people are going to wonder how teams passed up on a 19 year old 6'9 kid with a 7'2 wingspan who can legitimately guard all 5 positions and handle/create like he's a PG. So intrigued to see what he can become in a good organization like OKC. If OKC can develop his shot...whew

How is OKC a good organization? And I actually think that'd be a bad fit for a raw player like Barnes considering he'd be surrounded by other young guys with no veteran leadership. It's actually a bit of a mess there to be honest. On paper, they are the worst team in the league along with Houston.

OKC isnt the development hotbed, nor has presti lived up to his draft reputation for a while now

2020 poku - too early to tell
2019 - bazely - 23rd pick, a little to early to tell , but is a pf who shoots under .400 from field
2018 - no 1st
2017 - 21st overall terrance ferguson - flop
2016 - 11th overall Sabonis, was a flop in his rookie year before being traded to pacers
2015 - 14th cameron payne flop with okc
2014 - 21 mitch mcgary 29th josh huestus, flop flop
2013 - stven adam good
2012 perry jones flop
2011 reggie jackson good
2010 cole aldrige 11th overall, flop
2009 and backwards harden ibaka westbrook durant etc

Exactly. It's actually a pretty awful situation to be in. Orlando and Houston are the only other teams I can think of that would be as bad as OKC. The way they trotted out Poku and Maledon this year can't be good for their development. They were absolutely awful out there and didn't belong on the court.

[sidsid]

https://youtu.be/DcegfhwKvOE?t=727
mobley to raps discussion

People like to talk about Evan Mobley to the Raps, but in every other case they say that Mobley is a fit for a rebuilding team to build around. These commentators leave out the part about Toronto's own timeline. I think we are trying to win now. A Mobley would be great, but to me forces a reset of our timeline.

He isn't going to be great right away so how do we handle Mobley without rushing him, while also being competitive, while also filling the hole at PG when Kyle leaves? To me, a Mobley pick means starting over.

What are we trying to win now? This team isnt anywhere near contention. You take the BPA with the highest upside regardless of timeline

Mobley is likely a 5 year development track (just bulking up will take time) before he's truly producing at an elite level. That puts Siakam at the end of his prime.

That's why I see a move for Mobley, if we have to trade up for him and he is the target, as a sign of moving away from the Siakam window.

If any of the Siakam for prospects ideas have any traction it would be this domino effect (moving Fred to get the necessary assets to move up if necessary) around long term prospects and a rebuild.

[720]

I haven't been this invested in the draft since the Valanciunas and Ross years.

You mean since the last time we had our own lottery pick?

I guess you didn't care much about the year we had new York's pick and got poeltl lol

Haha everyone hoping marquise chriss fell to us. Dark times

What sucked is we were two off from Murray. The Demar year we were two off of Curry. Two away from Lillard in the Ross draft. Always close but not close enough. We finally move up in a 4 person draft to draft 4th.

[WuTang_OG]

People like to talk about Evan Mobley to the Raps, but in every other case they say that Mobley is a fit for a rebuilding team to build around. These commentators leave out the part about Toronto's own timeline. I think we are trying to win now. A Mobley would be great, but to me forces a reset of our timeline.

He isn't going to be great right away so how do we handle Mobley without rushing him, while also being competitive, while also filling the hole at PG when Kyle leaves? To me, a Mobley pick means starting over.

What are we trying to win now? This team isnt anywhere near contention. You take the BPA with the highest upside regardless of timeline

Mobley is likely a 5 year development track (just bulking up will take time) before he's truly producing at an elite level. That puts Siakam at the end of his prime.

That's why I see a move for Mobley, if we have to trade up for him and he is the target, as a sign of moving away from the Siakam window.

If any of the Siakam for prospects ideas have any traction it would be this domino effect (moving Fred to get the necessary assets to move up if necessary) around long term prospects and a rebuild.

5 years? You smoking? This isnt a Bruno type prospect. I dont think you understand the type of prospect Mobley is. The guy dominated the NCAA this past year and had the best +/- since AD and Zion. Mobley is a crazy talent. He will make a major impact by his 2nd year. Adding mass will come but its not going to set him back until he does. He has a permiter game as well as a post up game.

We are not moving Fred and Siakam to a full blown rebuild if we get any of Suggs or Mobley. That doesnt make any sense. Both rookies will make an impact by season 2.

[Raps in 4]

How do you all think OG, Kuminga and Pascal would fit together?

They wouldn't be able to play together. We'd need to trade one of the three.

[Raps in 4]

What are we trying to win now? This team isnt anywhere near contention. You take the BPA with the highest upside regardless of timeline

Mobley is likely a 5 year development track (just bulking up will take time) before he's truly producing at an elite level. That puts Siakam at the end of his prime.

That's why I see a move for Mobley, if we have to trade up for him and he is the target, as a sign of moving away from the Siakam window.

If any of the Siakam for prospects ideas have any traction it would be this domino effect (moving Fred to get the necessary assets to move up if necessary) around long term prospects and a rebuild.

5 years? You smoking? This isnt a Bruno type prospect. I dont think you understand the type of prospect Mobley is. The guy dominated the NCAA this past year and had the best +/- since AD and Zion. Mobley is a crazy talent. He will make a major impact by his 2nd year. Adding mass will come but its not going to set him back until he does. He has a permiter game as well as a post up game.

We are not moving Fred and Siakam to a full blown rebuild if we get any of Suggs or Mobley. That doesnt make any sense. Both rookies will make an impact by season 2.

I think Mobley will need 2-3 years before he starts making an elite-level impact.

[Raps in 4]

With three weeks till the big day, I going to shout my dreams to the world... I want Barnes! Preferably as trade down (Obviously with Orlando or Oklahoma)

I think it far more likely we end up with Suggs, or one of the other 'big four' and I'd be totally happy with any of those guys as I think they all are elite prospects, but I love what Barnes can be if he's developed properly. I see him going through a few years of development on his shooting and becoming a monster. He has that Ben Simmons/Draymond Green game... And just like those guys even without a shot he can be valuable, but if he can develop one... Sky is the limit.

The other guy that I'd love in the same drop down scenario is Kuminga. Another super high upside guy that needs to be in the right system to get the development he needs.

If Barnes or Kuminga fell to 7 and we did the Golden State deal...
Suggs
Barnes/Kuminga
Moody/Bouknight/Sengun/Wagner/ whoever the bpa is that falls to 14.

That is a major influx of young talent.

Going to be a fascinating draft night. So many ways our team can go depending on how Masai views our current roster. If he thinks we only a few pieces away, then no trades and just draft BPA, then shore up roster with free agent or trade.

Team not good enough to compete? Get multiple high draft picks and build around our young guys. Either way I comfortable that our front office will make the right call.

Tbh i wouldnt mind barnes either. I think 5 years from now people are going to wonder how teams passed up on a 19 year old 6'9 kid with a 7'2 wingspan who can legitimately guard all 5 positions and handle/create like he's a PG. So intrigued to see what he can become in a good organization like OKC. If OKC can develop his shot...whew

If he doesn't develop a shot (very likely), nobody is going to be wondering that. He's a project pick, and if he pans out, great, but it'll always be obvious why he wasn't picked earlier.

[WuTang_OG]

Mobley is likely a 5 year development track (just bulking up will take time) before he's truly producing at an elite level. That puts Siakam at the end of his prime.

That's why I see a move for Mobley, if we have to trade up for him and he is the target, as a sign of moving away from the Siakam window.

If any of the Siakam for prospects ideas have any traction it would be this domino effect (moving Fred to get the necessary assets to move up if necessary) around long term prospects and a rebuild.

5 years? You smoking? This isnt a Bruno type prospect. I dont think you understand the type of prospect Mobley is. The guy dominated the NCAA this past year and had the best +/- since AD and Zion. Mobley is a crazy talent. He will make a major impact by his 2nd year. Adding mass will come but its not going to set him back until he does. He has a permiter game as well as a post up game.

We are not moving Fred and Siakam to a full blown rebuild if we get any of Suggs or Mobley. That doesnt make any sense. Both rookies will make an impact by season 2.

I think Mobley will need 2-3 years before he starts making an elite-level impact.

Thats what Im saying. Not 5.

[S.W.A.N]

How do you all think OG, Kuminga and Pascal would fit together?

They wouldn't be able to play together. We'd need to trade one of the three.

They absolutely could play together. Probably not year one as you need Kuminga to develop more before he warrants time over other players, but as a team fit. Those three can work fine together.

The key is OG. OG can guard 1-5. He also doesn't need the ball in his hand to be efficient. You can have Kuminga and Pascal at the 3-4.

For this to work you probably need a starting 5 like Kelly O who is spread the floor guy. Until Kuminga proves he can hit the 3 teams will sag on him.

First year most of the offense is still going to run through Pascal and Siakam anyways so you wouldn't be asking Kuminga to do much other than defend, and hit open shots.

That is one of the beautiful things about our current roster. We have maximum flexibility.
Draft a PG? Fred can play the 2.
Draft a SG? Fred can play the 1.
Draft a SF? OG can play the 2-3-4.
Draft a PF? Small ball in crunch time.
Draft a C? Oh look we have an open spot.

There isn't a single draft prospect in the top 10 where we would have to adjust our roster to get them minutes.

[Raps in 4]

How do you all think OG, Kuminga and Pascal would fit together?

They wouldn't be able to play together. We'd need to trade one of the three.

They absolutely could play together. Probably not year one as you need Kuminga to develop more before he warrants time over other players, but as a team fit. Those three can work fine together.

The key is OG. OG can guard 1-5. He also doesn't need the ball in his hand to be efficient. You can have Kuminga and Pascal at the 3-4.

For this to work you probably need a starting 5 like Kelly O who is spread the floor guy. Until Kuminga proves he can hit the 3 teams will sag on him.

First year most of the offense is still going to run through Pascal and Siakam anyways so you wouldn't be asking Kuminga to do much other than defend, and hit open shots.

That is one of the beautiful things about our current roster. We have maximum flexibility.
Draft a PG? Fred can play the 2.
Draft a SG? Fred can play the 1.
Draft a SF? OG can play the 2-3-4.
Draft a PF? Small ball in crunch time.
Draft a C? Oh look we have an open spot.

There isn't a single draft prospect in the top 10 where we would have to adjust our roster to get them minutes.

Sure, they could play together, but they'd be a bad team. They all play the same position. It works with 2 of them since SF and PF are interchangeable with players of their size. But none of them have SG skills.

[WuTang_OG]

Read on Twitter

Toronto Raptors: Jalen Suggs, Gonzaga

Kyle Terada-USA TODAY Sports

Height: 6-4

Weight: 205 lbs.

Year: Freshman

Position: G

Suggs is highly touted for his ability to play both guard positions and his athleticism on the court. Certainly, his poise to hit the game-winning shot over UCLA in the Final Four backs up his winning mentality and ability to step up in crunch time.

Gonzaga teammate Corey Kispert may have said it best when describing Suggs recently.

“He is a crazy competitor, wants to win more than anything,” Kispert said. “He plays with amazing pace, doesn’t turn it over. All of the comparisons people make about him playing high school football and how he sees the court are all true. He sees the court really well, learns the game unbelievably for a 20-year-old. Whoever is fortunate enough to land Jalen is going to get a really good guy.”

[Bruin]

Read on Twitter

Toronto Raptors: Jalen Suggs, Gonzaga

Kyle Terada-USA TODAY Sports

Height: 6-4

Weight: 205 lbs.

Year: Freshman

Position: G

Suggs is highly touted for his ability to play both guard positions and his athleticism on the court. Certainly, his poise to hit the game-winning shot over UCLA in the Final Four backs up his winning mentality and ability to step up in crunch time.

Gonzaga teammate Corey Kispert may have said it best when describing Suggs recently.

“He is a crazy competitor, wants to win more than anything,” Kispert said. “He plays with amazing pace, doesn’t turn it over. All of the comparisons people make about him playing high school football and how he sees the court are all true. He sees the court really well, learns the game unbelievably for a 20-year-old. Whoever is fortunate enough to land Jalen is going to get a really good guy.”

Same mock has us taking

46. Toronto Raptors (via Memphis): Joe Wieskamp, Iowa

47. Toronto Raptors (via Golden State): Rokas Jokubaitis, Zalgiris

[Qhawe]

How do you all think OG, Kuminga and Pascal would fit together?

They wouldn't be able to play together. We'd need to trade one of the three.

I think they can play together. We were using OG as a 2 during the finals run when we went big.

Pasccal and Fred are already primary ball handlers. Plus those three allow you to switch everything during pick and rolls.

[Badonkadonk]

Blake Murphy has to be high if he thinks Thor has any actual chance of being available at our pick, let alone undrafted

https://theathletic.com/2691416/2021/07/08/nba-draft-prospects-six-bigs-the-raptors-could-select-with-picks-no-46-and-47/

JT Thor, Auburn (freshman), 6-foot-9.25, 203 lbs., 7-foot-3.25 wingspan, 18 years old
Vecenie board: 54, Vecenie mock: 51, Composite board: 30

Strengths: Great length including large hands and one of the highest standing reaches at the combine, good fluidity as an athlete with great open-floor speed, excellent weak-side shot-blocker, literally named Thor.

Concerns: Limited, though improving, small sample of jump shooting, needs to add strength to turn size and effort into rebounds, has interesting combo-forward dimensions but defense is inconsistent outside of paint.

Raptors fit: Has the length, shot-blocking and athletic tools that a strong player development department will look at and deem worthy of a flier, especially with his age and developmental runway.

If he goes undrafted, I will come down on the NBA like the hammer of Thor. The thunder of my vengeance will echo through Summer League like the gust of a thousand winds!

To be fair, he uses a combination of Vecenie's rankings and the composite board (combines 14 different rankings), and if one of those puts a prospect in the conversation, Blake writes about him if he thinks he's the kind of player that the Raps have traditionally liked. I'd expect him to include Thor in the convo at least, since he screams "Raptor" and would also be available per Vecenie's last big board.

Personally, I'm also pretty sure he's gone in the 1st.

[C_Money]

I haven't been this invested in the draft since the Valanciunas and Ross years.

You mean since the last time we had our own lottery pick?

I guess you didn't care much about the year we had new York's pick and got poeltl lol

Haha everyone hoping marquise chriss fell to us. Dark times

I remember most of this board wanted Kendall Marshall over Damian Lillard LOL.

[Qhawe]

You mean since the last time we had our own lottery pick?

I guess you didn't care much about the year we had new York's pick and got poeltl lol

Haha everyone hoping marquise chriss fell to us. Dark times

I remember most of this board wanted Kendall Marshall over Damian Lillard LOL.

Kendall Marshall lol.

[720]

Was watching our game vs KD where he had 51 points and we still won.



Look at our record, Kawhi still on the roster…good old days.

Hope we go back to that kind of glory within the next few years.