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Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers?

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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#21 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Jul 6, 2021 9:22 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:He needed another star with him that burned to win.
Sorry. Blake and DJ were just not it.

Blake absolutely burned to win. He was the hardest-working player on the team. He always showed up in the playoffs when healthy. The narrative that he "didn't care about winning" came from CP3 stans as an excuse to redirect the blame for the Clippers' playoff failures away from their guy.

But let's go with that narrative for a minute. Okay, we needed another star, fine. Remember when Blake and DJ tried to recruit Durant? Where was CP3? On vacation.

We also needed a better coach. CP3 forced us to hire Doc and never once, through all the failures, told Ballmer to fire him.

CP3 was the highest-paid player, the first option, and the face of the organization at the time. At the end of the day, he shoulders most of the blame for Lob City's failure.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#22 » by Clemenza » Tue Jul 6, 2021 10:27 pm

No matter what happened between Blake, Doc, and the rest of the team. I thought for sure CP3 was going to control the game enough-bring us home when we were up 19 going into the forth while up 3-2 against the Rockets in the playoffs. When we lost that game I was like, "why did we even trade for him?" And yes blame definitely goes all around from Blake, DJ, Redick, and Doc but that game was tailor made for him to finish it off for us.

-Topic wise he's now the ring-less older player to root for since all the postseason mainstays are out of it even those most players still don't like him. Plus its the only storyline that the networks seem to want to push and get behind
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#23 » by Kelphus » Tue Jul 6, 2021 11:50 pm

Unlike Blake, CP3 got bigger under pressure... except he was injured so very much. And yes, the Houston series was a heartbreaker.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#24 » by madmaxmedia » Fri Jul 9, 2021 5:41 pm

Certainly Chris Paul is a great player (if not perfect), but I never loved him even when he was a Clipper.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#25 » by madmaxmedia » Fri Jul 9, 2021 5:54 pm

Kelphus wrote:Unlike Blake, CP3 got bigger under pressure... except he was injured so very much. And yes, the Houston series was a heartbreaker.


Chris Paul is not the one to blame for all our previous playoff failures, but if he was truly a bigger player under pressure I feel we would have gotten out of the 2nd round at least once while he was here.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#26 » by nickhx2 » Fri Jul 9, 2021 6:57 pm

chris paul trying to flail for a call that the refs hadn't fallen for literally all season long, in a critical moment in the okc game, is about as small as you can get, so yeah i don't buy cp3 getting bigger under pressure.

he hit a spectacular go-ahead bucket against the spurs but other than that didn't do much of note. but yeah i agree, he's not the guy to blame for the team's playoff failures. it all came down to health and roster construction. had the team been healthier, we'd have had a much better shot. or if had the team had someone competent making personnel moves instead of doc, we'd have had a much better shot.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#27 » by nickhx2 » Fri Jul 9, 2021 7:03 pm

also i appreciated him a lot and it was amazing to watch the team with its best player ever, up to that point.

but i also, and still do, have always had a much greater appreciation and affinity for blake, the guy who we drafted and the guy who pretty much turned the franchise around all by himself.

when cp3 was traded it was like, meh, he didn't wanna be here anyway. when blake was traded, it was tremendously bittersweet for me.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#28 » by madmaxmedia » Fri Jul 9, 2021 7:20 pm

nickhx2 wrote:also i appreciated him a lot and it was amazing to watch the team with its best player ever, up to that point.

but i also, and still do, have always had a much greater appreciation and affinity for blake, the guy who we drafted and the guy who pretty much turned the franchise around all by himself.

when cp3 was traded it was like, meh, he didn't wanna be here anyway. when blake was traded, it was tremendously bittersweet for me.


100%. I definitely had mixed emotions about the Blake trade, even though it was absolutely A+++ in basketball terms.

Chris Paul trade? Meh, good luck. I don't hate the guy and don't begrudge him for wanting to leave, but I wasn't sad to see him go. All of us (including Chris) saw the writing on the wall- the Lob City team was clearly running out of steam.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#29 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:00 am

nickhx2 wrote:he hit a spectacular go-ahead bucket against the spurs but other than that didn't do much of note.

And even in the game where he made that shot, Blake was the best player on the court. That shot doesn't happen without Blake's dominant triple-double.

The idea that Blake shrunk under pressure isn't backed by reality. The meltdowns came from Doc and CP3.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#30 » by og15 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:58 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:he hit a spectacular go-ahead bucket against the spurs but other than that didn't do much of note.

And even in the game where he made that shot, Blake was the best player on the court. That shot doesn't happen without Blake's dominant triple-double.

The idea that Blake shrunk under pressure isn't backed by reality. The meltdowns came from Doc and CP3.

Skillset breeds confidence
Nah, don't swing the pendulum, that's not a balanced view. If we're comparing to Paul, yes, Blake "shrunk" more under pressure, it's just the reality, it's has nothing to do with anything personal to him. It was simply a skillet issue. His skillet was still developing, and skills are what breed confidence. Blake as a smaller PF (SF length) without a consistent or feared perimeter game was limited in his options when you placed a big, strong, mobile and lengthier defender on him and played off him. It's why matchups like Ibaka and Green frustrated him. It's why Memphis with Marc Gasol on him was tough. Earlier in his career, the Blake "solution" was putting C's on him and staying back. He couldn't post them up easily, had to work way too hard for his baskets, doing 3, 4 pump fakes and using his reverse pivot hook just to get a shot off down low. By 13-14 and on that was less effective, but there were still matchups that made him work too hard.

Blake was not a guy that they could just consistently go to and get a bucket down the stretch in 13-14 and 14-15, once in a while, but not consistently. Now he started developing that ability later as his shot improved and his confidence in taking shots improved, but he was injured in the regular season and more importantly the playoffs all those seasons where he could have shown any of that (15-16 and 16-17).

Blake had multiple key moments where he was indecisive when he had the ball because he didn't trust his shot enough, and he would drive into traffic, etc and turn the ball over. Blake in the offense basically got a touch every trip down the floor, and his indecisiveness down the stretch would have him over-passing and doing DHO's with Redick or passing back out when he could shoot. The indecisiveness had nothing to do with "fear", it's simply that he had short arms, couldn't bully guys as big and strong as him who had better length and he wasn't confident enough in his shot yet. (Not to add that DJ's man was hanging around clogging the lane). It's skillset (and team build), but people try and read other things into it.

Remember the offense ran with options. Blake when he got the ball in the middle of the floor could shoot, attack, run DHO with Redick, give the ball back to CP, etc. He had freedom in the offense, but when the Clippers were at their best, his confidence as a shooter was not at its highest.

Injuries took away opportunity
He's not the first player for this to happen to, it's the growth proces, don't know why people think players need to be put down for having to grow and learn. His problem is that by the time he was developing those skills, injuries were ravaging him. Blake was injured early in the playoffs and out for the season at age 26, 27 and 29, that's when things are supposed to be coming together. Age 26-31/32ish is supposed to be when you've put together the skills and IQ while still having solid athletic ability.


Love team wins
The Spurs game 7 win was actually more about team basketball than one individual player. Blake had the triple double, CP led the scoring and hit the tough game winner, but Clippers had 5 guys take 11+ FGA and 5 guys in double digits, and guys made their shots! Both the stars did equally well. I loved that series because they did a good job consistently adjusting to how the Spurs were defending, and the two stars mixed up with attacking and playmaking based on what the defense was giving them.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#31 » by og15 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:15 pm

To add, a part of Blake's problem was playing with his boy DJ, but it was a problem that also possibly had to be there. Playing with DJ meant less space for Blake to work inside, which meant he needed a stronger perimeter game to maximize himself.

On the other side, playing with DJ covered for the fact that Blake was a big man with the length of a SF and needed to be paired next to someone that could protect the rim because he simply couldn't do it from a physical standpoint.

The Clippers were in the tough position where they needed the unicorn big man who could shoot from outside and anchor your defense, or something as close as possible. That meant they were always never, "ideally" built. I remember being in favor of a Al Horford for DJ trade due to this, but not sure that was ever real anyways.

In hindsight, maybe one says they should have just gone all in with Blake at C and more shooting around him, but whether that could actually work is a different question. Considering they were the #1 offense in 13-14 and 14-15, I think trying to get more shooting in detriment to defense when that was their biggest issue wouldn't make sense. Even more so when you have smaller guards/wings in Redick and Crawford who can't help at the basket or on the glass, you can't really go without a rim protector.

But then you have a rim protector that clogs the lane and isn't a scoring offensive threat, and it's a lot to balance. This was all just part of the reality that building strong teams is hard, and little missed opportunities even with little things like the BAE and MLE not working out can derail teams plans.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#32 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:57 pm

I've never at the end of a game situation hoped that the ball went to Griffin over CP. So we can talk about whether Griffin shrank/shrunk or didn't shrink. I'd much rather live with the ball in CP's hands and he often came up with great answers for us over the years.

I don't think it's his fault that he's 6 foot and there are limits to his stardom where he can't be an MJ or Kobe. It's Doc's fault this roster wasn't more filled out so that he could have had another Klay Thompson level star scoring the ball.

It's completely revisionist history to act like the only thing he did in our uniform was choke series away when he had SEVERAL clutch moments and several clutch performances as a whole.
Example.
Down 2-1 in SAS in 2015.
34 points 7 Assists.
Ok, we can play the fool and act like that wasn't "clutch" because there was no game winner but he came up HUGE for us in that game.

Even the game 5 "choke" against OKC. Did you see the jumper he hit with 49 seconds that should have put the game away? LOL. Nobody in their right mind would have put the ball in Griffin's hands there.


6:41 for the shot he made.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#33 » by madmaxmedia » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:09 am

og15 wrote:Blake had multiple key moments where he was indecisive when he had the ball because he didn't trust his shot enough, and he would drive into traffic, etc and turn the ball over. Blake in the offense basically got a touch every trip down the floor, and his indecisiveness down the stretch would have him over-passing and doing DHO's with Redick or passing back out when he could shoot. The indecisiveness had nothing to do with "fear", it's simply that he had short arms, couldn't bully guys as big and strong as him who had better length and he wasn't confident enough in his shot yet. (Not to add that DJ's man was hanging around clogging the lane). It's skillset (and team build), but people try and read other things into it.


I think on the whole Blake did a damn good job maximizing his physical assets to have a great NBA career, but certain limitations where always going to limit his upside so it's an interesting question to look back and consider how we might have best built a team around him. It's tough though, it's not like we drafted DJ in the lottery or signed him as a big free agent, he was a 2nd round pick who himself overachieved to put together a good NBA career. The CP3 trade was more or less a no brainer I think to complete our 'big 3', the rest of our moves were always trying to squeeze water out of rocks to fill out a roster and bench around them.

If Blake had longer arms or even maybe bigger hands it could have improved his offensive versatility. Working on his mid-range and eventually long range shot was great, but the further he got away from the basket the less special a player he became. OTOH, in the half court his only low post game was bully ball, and I think his short arms had a lot to do with that. I don't know his hand size, but just picturing about his inside game I just don't recall him ever showing a nice soft release and arc on his close to basket shots.

Anyway, just going on a short Blake tangent since you made some good observations about Blake.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#34 » by madmaxmedia » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:16 am

Quake Griffin wrote:I've never at the end of a game situation hoped that the ball went to Griffin over CP. So we can talk about whether Griffin shrank/shrunk or didn't shrink. I'd much rather live with the ball in CP's hands and he often came up with great answers for us over the years.

I don't think it's his fault that he's 6 foot and there are limits to his stardom where he can't be an MJ or Kobe. It's Doc's fault this roster wasn't more filled out so that he could have had another Klay Thompson level star scoring the ball.

It's completely revisionist history to act like the only thing he did in our uniform was choke series away when he had SEVERAL clutch moments and several clutch performances as a whole.
Example.
Down 2-1 in SAS in 2015.
34 points 7 Assists.
Ok, we can play the fool and act like that wasn't "clutch" because there was no game winner but he came up HUGE for us in that game.

Even the game 5 "choke" against OKC. Did you see the jumper he hit with 49 seconds that should have put the game away? LOL. Nobody in their right mind would have put the ball in Griffin's hands there.


6:41 for the shot he made.


This is a good post. I mean Chris Paul is an NBA star for good reason. I just didn't particularly like him or his game (which is different than saying he's not a great player.)
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#35 » by og15 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:35 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:
og15 wrote:Blake had multiple key moments where he was indecisive when he had the ball because he didn't trust his shot enough, and he would drive into traffic, etc and turn the ball over. Blake in the offense basically got a touch every trip down the floor, and his indecisiveness down the stretch would have him over-passing and doing DHO's with Redick or passing back out when he could shoot. The indecisiveness had nothing to do with "fear", it's simply that he had short arms, couldn't bully guys as big and strong as him who had better length and he wasn't confident enough in his shot yet. (Not to add that DJ's man was hanging around clogging the lane). It's skillset (and team build), but people try and read other things into it.


I think on the whole Blake did a damn good job maximizing his physical assets to have a great NBA career, but certain limitations where always going to limit his upside so it's an interesting question to look back and consider how we might have best built a team around him. It's tough though, it's not like we drafted DJ in the lottery or signed him as a big free agent, he was a 2nd round pick who himself overachieved to put together a good NBA career. The CP3 trade was more or less a no brainer I think to complete our 'big 3', the rest of our moves were always trying to squeeze water out of rocks to fill out a roster and bench around them.

If Blake had longer arms or even maybe bigger hands it could have improved his offensive versatility. Working on his mid-range and eventually long range shot was great, but the further he got away from the basket the less special a player he became. OTOH, in the half court his only low post game was bully ball, and I think his short arms had a lot to do with that. I don't know his hand size, but just picturing about his inside game I just don't recall him ever showing a nice soft release and arc on his close to basket shots.

Anyway, just going on a short Blake tangent since you made some good observations about Blake.

Blake has good hands, and I'd say he has good touch, but yes, further away from the basket does/did take away some of what made him special, but having no/a weak outside game and playing next to DJ made the playoffs and game planning for him easier. 13-14 Blake after he embraced that face up game and attacking from the middle really opened up the floor for him and opened up the offense.

People don't appreciate enough how much the Clippers maximized their spacing with their roster in 13-14 and beyond. They made use of every little inch of spacing they could get on the court, and they had to do so.

If Blake was 25 and had 4-5 healthy years and then Paul at the same age he was in 11-12 was added to the Clippers, it could have been a different story, but that's not how it worked. Paul came when Blake was developing, by the time Blake developed, Paul was getting older, the disappointments had soured the team, and Blake was suffering too many injuries. The timing of primes and health didn't work out.

I also think Blake did very well for his physical tools. I think people expected from him some things he wasn't physically capable of doing earlier in his career. I think the point forward and more perimeter oriented role was always the best solution for him because he just never had the size to be a primarily interior guy. Even look a Amare, many people forget how money he was from mid-range and think he was just dunking. Amare was actually close to elite in percentages from the mid-range area, shooting 45-46% (Blake at his best was around 39-40%).
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#36 » by MartinToVaught » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:08 am

For all the Blake haters - CP3 is crapping the bed (in very familiar fashion) against the exact same Bucks team that Blake stepped up against. This is despite all the ref help that the Suns were getting tonight.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#37 » by og15 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:59 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:For all the Blake haters - CP3 is crapping the bed (in very familiar fashion) against the exact same Bucks team that Blake stepped up against. This is despite all the ref help that the Suns were getting tonight.

Was anyone in this thread "hating" on Blake, who in the world are you referencing your post to?

Come on MTV, this is even embarassing for you. Paul and Blake are in totally different roles at this point, comparing a role player and a star this way doesn't make much sense. Blake stepping up as a role player without much defensive focus is different than a past prime but still playing at star level Paul having a terrible game vs the Bucks with Holiday full court pressing him the whole game. Blake was basically playing Cam Johnson's role if you want to compare among the two teams. I know you're quite aware of this though, but willfully ignoring things is fun sometimes too.

The Nets went up 2-0 vs the Bucks, reasonable, they had HCA, they then lost a close game 3, then lost game 4 where Irving also went down for them half way through. Both teams after 4 games are in the same position, tied 2-2. Are you going to say "good job Paul he stepped up" if he plays well the rest of the series and the Suns lose? Nope, so why reference Blake vs the Bucks?

Paul was laughably bad in the game though, looking somewhat like the "I can't dribble with one hand" version of him vs the Lakers with how loose he was with his handle. Basically he would have been better off just shooting the ball every time he had a turnover while trying to make a pass to someone else. Embarrassing performance, especially with how well Booker did.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#38 » by og15 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:21 pm

In response to the OP
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2103305&start=40

BAHAHHA, CP getting destroyed, not even close, guess the love isn't that great
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#39 » by MartinToVaught » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:35 pm

CP3 is Booker and Ayton's sidekick. Blake was basically Durant's sidekick against the Bucks since Durant's actual sidekicks couldn't stay healthy through the whole series.

Blake stepped up beyond anyone's expectations, despite having a tough defensive assignment and a bigger role than he was supposed to be taking on. CP3 is shrinking from the moment.

I'd say the comparison is totally valid. What's embarrassing is CP3's performance. He should be thanking his lucky stars that he got to face a backcourt of Campazzo and Austin Rivers for a whole series, otherwise his playoff run would be looking a lot different right now.
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Re: Where was the Cp3 love when he was with the Clippers? 

Post#40 » by esqtvd » Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:38 am

og15 wrote:In response to the OP
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2103305&start=40

BAHAHHA, CP getting destroyed, not even close, guess the love isn't that great


nothing changes


:rofl2:

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