Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[HumbleRen]

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[HumbleRen]

NBA Draft Prospects: Six wings the Raptors could select with picks No. 46 and 47

Kessler Edwards, Pepperdine (junior), 6-foot-8, 203 lbs., 6-foot-11.25 wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 28, Vecenie mock: 39, Composite board: 38

Strengths: Great shooter with elite free-throw percentage to support, excellent defensive recognition and reaction time, great block rate for a forward, finished well inside against lesser competition, very strong combine games.

Concerns: Shot mechanics aren’t perfect or consistent with the tendency to miss short, needs to pull the trigger with more decisiveness, defence came with lapses at college level.



Aaron Henry, Michigan State (junior), 6-foot-6, 210 lbs., 6-foot-10.75 wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 58, Vecenie mock: 51, Composite board: 40

Strengths: Great on-ball defence with motor-technique combination and strong block-steal rate, one of the best passing forwards in the class, just a very active player always looking to impact the game.

Concerns: Poor shooter on fair volume, just an OK athlete by NBA standards, increased playmaking comes with turnover cost, not as aggressive driving as he should be.






Herbert Jones, Alabama (senior), 6-foot-7.25, 206 lbs., 7-foot-0.25 wingspan, 22 years old
Vecenie board: 34, Vecenie mock: Undrafted, Composite board: 41

Strengths: One of the best perimeter defenders in NCAA with all the tools to make it translate, improved handle and playmaking, showed small-sample growth from 3 and at free-throw line as a senior, reputation as elite culture piece.

Concerns: No stand-out offensive skill and limited shooting track record, can skew foul- and turnover-prone, did it all start to click or was he just 22?





Joe Wieskamp, Iowa (sophomore), 6-foot-7.25, 205 lbs., 6-foot-11 wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 36, Vecenie mock: 53, Composite board: 49

Strengths: Claim as best shooter in class (after Corey Kispert), gets himself open well and shoots over top, some ability to attack closeout with mid-range/floater package, good length and burst.

Concerns: Likely to be limited defensively, ineffective in pick-and-roll opportunities, makes reads a beat late with ball in his hands, secondary specialist skills still in development.



Scottie Lewis, Florida (sophomore) 6-foot-5.25, 188 lbs., 7-foot wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 80, Vecenie mock: Undrafted, Composite board: 58

Strengths: Tremendous defender with monster steal and block rates, opponents basically stopped going near him, some slashing ability, big and fun personality, called me gorgeous on Zoom.

Concerns: Really limited offensive package with low volume, low efficiency and bad turnover rate, reluctant outside shooter, poor judgment of attractiveness on Zoom.






Justin Champagnie, Pittsburgh (sophomore), 6-foot-6.75, 206 lbs., 6-foot-9.5 wingspan, 20 years old
Vecenie board: 51, Vecenie mock: Undrafted, Composite board: 60

Strengths: Excellent bounce around rim on defence, good steal and block rates, improved playmaker with low turnover rate despite high usage, elite rebounder.

Concerns: Not much track record as an effective shooter despite getting attempts up, offensive production will be largely hustle-based to start, lesser one-on-one defender than others in this tier/archetype due to limited lateral quickness.




That’s where we could have been headed with Justin and Julian Champagnie until Julian opted to return to St. John’s for his junior season. Justin, meanwhile, kept his name in the mix, earning the definitive status of highest-ranked Champagnie twin in the 2021 draft.

Having said that, Champagnie is not mocked to be selected on any of the boards we surveyed. He does, however, rank as high as 37 on some boards, with a wide range that suggests he’s more of a two-way or Exhibit 10 target at this stage. Like a few others in this group, Champagnie offers good size at a forward position with some emerging secondary offensive skills — he showed some real playmaking feel without a spike in turnovers with that responsibility — but doesn’t have much track record of connecting on 3s (28 percent on 200 attempts over two seasons).

Despite not being the defender Jones or Lewis are, Champagnie offers elite rebounding and, despite his height, maybe a more natural path to undersized bench minutes. If he’s playing a more interior defensive game, he has a terrific first jump for contesting. He’s probably a (very fun) G Leaguer to start.

[DG88]

Was listening to Chad Fords podcast with Adam Stanco (long history as a scout) and one interesting point he made was that a guys high school tape is more indicative of their potential ceiling than their college tape. In college you don’t get the freedom to play to your strengths and often forced into a specific role, whereas in HS the top prospects are able to show out more and you don’t get to see that again until the NBA.

With that said, watching Suggs in high school you can see he dialed back his scoring to be more of a team guy in Gonzaga. Look how often he’d pull from deep 3 (his shot looks good too) and how often he’d attack the rim and make a variety of finishes. Yes the competition is trash high schoolers but it’s the confidence to take and make those kinds of shots that is encouraging. I guess the point that Adam was making being that their HS dominance is what they could/would look like if they hit their peak in the NBA

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As Mark Few mentioned recently, he was surprised Suggs wanted to go to Gonzaga. Team was stacked, highly structured. Suggs is all about winning, never cared about his stats. That definitely has to taken into account.

It's one of my main drawing points on Suggs is he just cares about winning that's all. If that means he has to score 30 or drop 12 dimes or make that critical steal/block he'll do it. It's why I can see him being an All Star guard because of that mentality along with his other skills. Being a dual sport athlete and having to split time between football and basketball means he can have some very good growth on other aspects of his game (i.e. shooting).

Another thing I read on reddit during a game the play by play announcer said that he spoke to Suggs asking him who does he watch tape on in the NBA, who does he try to model his game after. For Suggs it was Westbrook and Lillard. He like Westbrooks ferociousness on the court but loves the pace that Lillard plays with and tries to incorporate that into his game.

[vulture]

While we are looking at all these prospects, we need to shift the conversation to how they fit in the playoffs and on a championship team.
And based on evaluations, what a prospect's strengths is in College/G League is what it will be in the NBA, but the question is how good those strengths will be. The development of weaknesses is usually an outlier and that's why the draft is so difficult.

[Spida888]

NBA Draft Prospects: Six wings the Raptors could select with picks No. 46 and 47

...

Scottie Lewis, Florida (sophomore) 6-foot-5.25, 188 lbs., 7-foot wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 80, Vecenie mock: Undrafted, Composite board: 58

Strengths: Tremendous defender with monster steal and block rates, opponents basically stopped going near him, some slashing ability, big and fun personality, called me gorgeous on Zoom.

Concerns: Really limited offensive package with low volume, low efficiency and bad turnover rate, reluctant outside shooter, poor judgment of attractiveness on Zoom.

...

love the Zoom call strength/concern. Scottie Lewis is interesting as either SRP or undrafted. Great athlete that maybe with the right development can nourish him to be a decent player.

[vulture]

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[Federalies]

The Definitive Jalen Suggs Podcast w/ Jackson Frank

- What makes Suggs an attractive prospect?
- The likeliest of the top 4
- An unlikely primary
- What makes Suggs an incredible connecting player?
- A transition savant
- NBA Reads/Plays that he makes
- Where is the jumper, how far will it go?
- Playing off of Siakam & OG
- Premeditation downhill
- On-ball defense
- Off-ball defense and fitting in with the Raptors D
- Developing the post game
- Stealing from Jrue Holiday and Kyle Lowry

https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2021/07/09/the-definitive-jalen-suggs-podcast-w-jackson-frank/

[HumbleRen]

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[vulture]

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Raptors fit convo starts at 9:45

[ATLTimekeeper]

Exactly. Ayton is beasting, but he's pretty much relegated to screener and roll man on offense. He picks up CP3 and Booker's scraps. Where his true value is is being mobile and agile enough to anchor the defense at his size. Do you need to use a high pick to get a guy with that skill set? Maybe.

No, but Mobley is way more skilled than Ayton was in college. Comparing them based on their size doesn't really give you much.

[Psubs]

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He is almost too tall like Porzingis.

Him and Bates in 2023.

[KINGTHANOS]

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He's a stick figure lol.

[T-d0t]

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He is almost too tall like Porzingis.

Him and Bates in 2023.

The French Boucher

[Mehar]

I said this a couple of weeks to some posters who were saying the Raptors should draft Kuminga over Suggs. He has good potential, but no way the Raptors should draft him over Suggs at 4. I feel the same way about Scottie Barnes as well. Raptors should not draft Kuming or Barnes over Suggs at 4. It would be a long-term mistake.

I have Barnes above Kuminga because I think Barnes is a more functional athlete e.g. faster with the ball, and his skill and feel is well above that of Kuminga imo. I've seen jaw-dropping plays from Barnes like ridiculous cross-court passes and one-man fastbreaks; I haven't really seen those flashes of brilliance from Kuminga. I know the level of competition is different, but the game is the same.

Barnes has amazing court vision. its his shot (or lack of a shot) that everyone has an issue with

That is a big concern from my end regarding Barnes. The posters who want to draft Barnes over Suggs, are the same ones saying
they are worried about the lack of shots from Suggs. I am no college basketball expert, but all year I read where Kuminga was a consensus top 5 pick. Barnes was always projected 7-9.

Maybe it is me, and I am missing something, but having watched Kuminga a couple of games, and his highlights- I do not see where he is this elite cannot miss prospect. He is a great athlete, with solid potential, but I am not passing on Suggs to draft Kuminga. Same with Scottie Barnes. I think Barnes is a better prospect than Kuminga, but his lack of shot is a big concern. Barnes or Kuminga would have been nice at 7, but at 4, it is a reach from my end. Maybe others know better.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I have Barnes above Kuminga because I think Barnes is a more functional athlete e.g. faster with the ball, and his skill and feel is well above that of Kuminga imo. I've seen jaw-dropping plays from Barnes like ridiculous cross-court passes and one-man fastbreaks; I haven't really seen those flashes of brilliance from Kuminga. I know the level of competition is different, but the game is the same.

Barnes has amazing court vision. its his shot (or lack of a shot) that everyone has an issue with

That is a big concern from my end regarding Barnes. The posters who want to draft Barnes over Suggs, are the same ones saying
they are worried about the lack of shots from Suggs. I am no college basketball expert, but all year I read where Kuminga was a consensus top 5 pick. Barnes was always projected 7-9.

Maybe it is me, and I am missing something, but having watched Kuminga a couple of games, and his highlights- I do not see where he is this elite cannot miss prospect. He is a great athlete, with solid potential, but I am not passing on Suggs to draft Kuminga. Same with Scottie Barnes. I think Barnes is a better prospect than Kuminga, but his lack of shot is a big concern. Barnes or Kuminga would have been nice at 7, but at 4, it is a reach from my end. Maybe others know better.

Kuminga is overrated by the this forum. But then again, if he showed more in the workouts than his previous season In the g league, sure, Raptors brass could make the right play here and select Kuminga.


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[So Clutch]

Hey this was said months ago so I’m not sure if it was you or not. But did you ever say Cade is the 5th best prospect in this draft? Might have not been you but just wondering.

I'll admit I'm not as high on Cade as others. I like his size but he doesn't do anything great.

Not a great shooter, not a great athelte, not great vision, not a great handle, not many iso moves.


I do think Mobley and Green have more potential than Cade, yes! And I wouldn't be surprised if Suggs or Kuminga become better as well. I don't think he's a lock to be a superstar

How is Cade not a great shooter? He shot 40% from 3 (6 attempts per game) and 85% from the line (6 attempts per game).

What would qualify as a “great shooter” if Cade isn’t?

NotMyKawhi has no idea what he’s talking about, and this is more evidence for it. He’s criticizing a 90th percentile isolation scorer about his iso moves, and calling a 40% 3 pt shooter and 85% FT shooter, a poor shooter.


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[MavCarter]

Suggs being compared to brandon roy and dwyane wade and westbrook and dearon fox etc on here. He should definitely go #1

None of those guys went #1 in the respective drafts. You must be daft to not know that when people make comparisons it's not a direct indication to their outcome? It's usually an indication of their play style and hopeful outcome. Obviously they can fail to reach that comparison, but they're needed in evaluating prospects.

My Comp for top 4
Cade - Middleton/Hayward type
Green - Beal/Lavine type
Mobley - AD/CB/ Type
Suggs - Roy/Kidd-lite

I have comp for all of their floors also. I do think Suggs is probably the hardest to comp though IMO.

Literally no one saw roy/wade becoming the players they became or they would have gone higher. If you can see suggs becoming roy/wade why not take him #1?

[DG88]

Draft Cap!

[BoyzNTheHood]

Draft Cap!

[Jcity08]

Draft Cap!

Woah, thats clean. I might just pick me one up.