ESPN+ Timberwolves Off-season Map

[TheZachAttack]

The biggest way to fix the 4 position for the Wolves is to add a 15-20 mpg rim-rolling, screen-setting, and rim protecting backup 5. In addition to this, this means that KAT is playing the 4 for ~15-18 mpg. Between Naz, the additional role-player above, and KAT you have your 5 minutes locked down and players with different skillsets who you can tailor towards different matchups towards.

With Beasley, Edwards, Russell, Rubio, Nowell, Bolmaro, Okogie and Culver on the roster... Beasley/Edwards/Bolmaro/Okogie/Culver... if they are to get minutes... are going to have to get minutes at the 3. McDaniels will also get minutes at the 3, but there won't be enough for him to get a full 30-35 mpg there. This means that McDaniels, even if his primary position is the 3, will play some minutes at the 4 especially in certain matchups.

If KAT plays 15 mpg at the 4 and McDaniels plays 10-15 mpg at the 4, you're really only looking for a 20-25 mpg player at most... less if you're content to give Vanderbilt 10-15 mpg as an energy player.

Given that Vanderbilt has some NBA level skills in certain matchups with his ability to rebound on both sides of the ball, run in transition, and be switchable on the perimeter and guard big wings... you really only need to add a role-player in this spot. I think the thing the Wolves are missing is truly an above average spacing player at the 4.

I think the best move for the Wolves this offseason would be to add 2 extremely solid 20 mpg role-players at the 4 and the 5 rather than giving up assets and star-hunting. If needed, at the trade deadline the Wolves can take stock of their assets and team (after hopefully being healthy) and package assets into a Turner level player or better.

[SO_MONEY]

The biggest way to fix the 4 position for the Wolves is to add a 15-20 mpg rim-rolling, screen-setting, and rim protecting backup 5. In addition to this, this means that KAT is playing the 4 for ~15-18 mpg. Between Naz, the additional role-player above, and KAT you have your 5 minutes locked down and players with different skillsets who you can tailor towards different matchups towards.

With Beasley, Edwards, Russell, Rubio, Nowell, Bolmaro, Okogie and Culver on the roster... Beasley/Edwards/Bolmaro/Okogie/Culver... if they are to get minutes... are going to have to get minutes at the 3. McDaniels will also get minutes at the 3, but there won't be enough for him to get a full 30-35 mpg there. This means that McDaniels, even if his primary position is the 3, will play some minutes at the 4 especially in certain matchups.

If KAT plays 15 mpg at the 4 and McDaniels plays 10-15 mpg at the 4, you're really only looking for a 20-25 mpg player at most... less if you're content to give Vanderbilt 10-15 mpg as an energy player.

Given that Vanderbilt has some NBA level skills in certain matchups with his ability to rebound on both sides of the ball, run in transition, and be switchable on the perimeter and guard big wings... you really only need to add a role-player in this spot. I think the thing the Wolves are missing is truly an above average spacing player at the 4.

I think the best move for the Wolves this offseason would be to add 2 extremely solid 20 mpg role-players at the 4 and the 5 rather than giving up assets and star-hunting. If needed, at the trade deadline the Wolves can take stock of their assets and team (after hopefully being healthy) and package assets into a Turner level player or better.

If you are giving KAT 15 minutes a PF you have failed.

[TheZachAttack]

The biggest way to fix the 4 position for the Wolves is to add a 15-20 mpg rim-rolling, screen-setting, and rim protecting backup 5. In addition to this, this means that KAT is playing the 4 for ~15-18 mpg. Between Naz, the additional role-player above, and KAT you have your 5 minutes locked down and players with different skillsets who you can tailor towards different matchups towards.

With Beasley, Edwards, Russell, Rubio, Nowell, Bolmaro, Okogie and Culver on the roster... Beasley/Edwards/Bolmaro/Okogie/Culver... if they are to get minutes... are going to have to get minutes at the 3. McDaniels will also get minutes at the 3, but there won't be enough for him to get a full 30-35 mpg there. This means that McDaniels, even if his primary position is the 3, will play some minutes at the 4 especially in certain matchups.

If KAT plays 15 mpg at the 4 and McDaniels plays 10-15 mpg at the 4, you're really only looking for a 20-25 mpg player at most... less if you're content to give Vanderbilt 10-15 mpg as an energy player.

Given that Vanderbilt has some NBA level skills in certain matchups with his ability to rebound on both sides of the ball, run in transition, and be switchable on the perimeter and guard big wings... you really only need to add a role-player in this spot. I think the thing the Wolves are missing is truly an above average spacing player at the 4.

I think the best move for the Wolves this offseason would be to add 2 extremely solid 20 mpg role-players at the 4 and the 5 rather than giving up assets and star-hunting. If needed, at the trade deadline the Wolves can take stock of their assets and team (after hopefully being healthy) and package assets into a Turner level player or better.

If you are giving KAT 15 minutes a PF you have failed.

Convincing argument, care to expand? I'm not by any means a trailblazer musing over the idea of giving KAT minutes at the 4. Do the Lakers fail because Davis gets 20 mpg at the 4?

[wolfen]

The biggest way to fix the 4 position for the Wolves is to add a 15-20 mpg rim-rolling, screen-setting, and rim protecting backup 5. In addition to this, this means that KAT is playing the 4 for ~15-18 mpg. Between Naz, the additional role-player above, and KAT you have your 5 minutes locked down and players with different skillsets who you can tailor towards different matchups towards.

With Beasley, Edwards, Russell, Rubio, Nowell, Bolmaro, Okogie and Culver on the roster... Beasley/Edwards/Bolmaro/Okogie/Culver... if they are to get minutes... are going to have to get minutes at the 3. McDaniels will also get minutes at the 3, but there won't be enough for him to get a full 30-35 mpg there. This means that McDaniels, even if his primary position is the 3, will play some minutes at the 4 especially in certain matchups.

If KAT plays 15 mpg at the 4 and McDaniels plays 10-15 mpg at the 4, you're really only looking for a 20-25 mpg player at most... less if you're content to give Vanderbilt 10-15 mpg as an energy player.

Given that Vanderbilt has some NBA level skills in certain matchups with his ability to rebound on both sides of the ball, run in transition, and be switchable on the perimeter and guard big wings... you really only need to add a role-player in this spot. I think the thing the Wolves are missing is truly an above average spacing player at the 4.

I think the best move for the Wolves this offseason would be to add 2 extremely solid 20 mpg role-players at the 4 and the 5 rather than giving up assets and star-hunting. If needed, at the trade deadline the Wolves can take stock of their assets and team (after hopefully being healthy) and package assets into a Turner level player or better.

Theis, IMO, is the key to our off-season. Forget trying to make big moves, just get Theis. Overpay if you have to, he's that important to what we need. If we unloaded salary somehow (Rubio, Juancho, Okogie, Culver, etc.) to allow us to offer the full MLE, the problem is, he'll get that offer from mulitiple teams I would think. We'd have to out-bid them somewhat.



From this article (https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/06/11/daniel-theis-will-have-plenty-of-interest-on-the-market-this-season-what-about-the-bulls/), this statement is put out there:

On the latest episode of the HoopsHype Podcast, Scotto told Yossi Gozlan that he’s heard Theis is a starting-caliber player who will command above the mid-level exception this season.

From what I’m told, Theis is looking for the right balance of an opportunity to play, be on a winning team, and obviously have some respect shown through money. The value I’ve heard for him, expected value from talking about him with people around the league, he can command interest from teams above the mid-level in free agency thus far. Time will tell, ultimately, but this guy is a a starter and has got playoff experience, he can shoot the three if he has to, a leader in the locker room guy. He does all the intangibles for a team to win, we saw it in Boston when they were doing well, and it will be interesting to see his market, as well.

So, in other words, people around the league expect Theis to make over $9.5 million annually on his next contract. In fact, considering this weak free agency class and the amount of cap space that will be out there, I could envision Theis getting to $12 million a year somewhat easily. Again, he not only has some encouraging previous experience, but he possesses the positional versatility to play both frontcourt spots. Teams will pay for that, especially those teams looking to contend in 2021-22.


So there's your dilemma on Theis. If we could magically use Rubio's money we'd be good to go to offer him 12 mil.

[Klomp]

Russell was probably destined for a contract in the $18 mil range, but timing DID bail him out. When he got dumped to BRK, they tried to run their offense through Caris LeVert. When he got hurt, they tried to feature Spencer Dinwiddie, but he got hurt too. With no one left, they built their offense around Russell, and it boosted his stats. Then when the East All Stars were announced, they had an injured player, and Russell got that spot. Nate Duncan calls Russell the “worst all star in nba history,” which is saying something, since I watched Jamaal Magliore. His inclusion, even as a replacement, showed how bad the talent was in the East.

Russell STILL probably wouldn’t have gotten a max deal except for yet another beneficial coincidence - Kevin Durant wanted to join the Nets. The Nets had cap space to just sign him, but the Warriors didn’t want to lose him for nothing, and they wanted to maintain their payroll for salary matching above the cap. The only way to get to a salary that could match Kevin Durant was for them to agree to pay DLo a max deal.

Russell has been the recipient of tremendous luck to get to the contract he is on today. He is not worth a max deal in any shape or form, as we would see if we ever wanted to trade him. He came in 6th in the “Worst Contracts in the NBA” poll on the Trade Board last year.

First 14 games, 6-8 record (all healthy): DLo 17/4/5, LeVert 18/4/4, Dinwiddie 14/2/4
Next 35 games, 20-15 record (no LeVert): DLo 20/4/7, Dinwiddie 18/3/5
Averages, 26-23 record: DLo 19/4/6, Dinwiddie 17/3/5 (this is roughly when all-stars were announced)

Next 7 games, 3-4 record (only DLo): DLo 24/3/7
Next 7 games, 3-4 record (DLo and LeVert): 27/4/8, LeVert 9/3/4
Last 19 games, 10-9 record: DLo 23/4/8, Dinwiddie 16/2/3, LeVert 12/4/4

They may have chosen to run things through LeVert early on, but why was the team's best stretch with him out if he was truly their best player? This is like some LaMelo logic going on here.....Dinwiddie never really usurped Russell in role or production.

[BlacJacMac]

So there's your dilemma on Theis. If we could magically use Rubio's money we'd be good to go to offer him 12 mil.

Salary cap is 112M.

Wolves are currently at 131M. And that's without resigning Vanderbilt.

Remove Rubio's 18M and that puts us at 113M.

So we'd need to clear another 13M to make that offer.

Basically we'd need to send out Rubio, Juancho and Culver and take no money back.

[TheZachAttack]

The biggest way to fix the 4 position for the Wolves is to add a 15-20 mpg rim-rolling, screen-setting, and rim protecting backup 5. In addition to this, this means that KAT is playing the 4 for ~15-18 mpg. Between Naz, the additional role-player above, and KAT you have your 5 minutes locked down and players with different skillsets who you can tailor towards different matchups towards.

With Beasley, Edwards, Russell, Rubio, Nowell, Bolmaro, Okogie and Culver on the roster... Beasley/Edwards/Bolmaro/Okogie/Culver... if they are to get minutes... are going to have to get minutes at the 3. McDaniels will also get minutes at the 3, but there won't be enough for him to get a full 30-35 mpg there. This means that McDaniels, even if his primary position is the 3, will play some minutes at the 4 especially in certain matchups.

If KAT plays 15 mpg at the 4 and McDaniels plays 10-15 mpg at the 4, you're really only looking for a 20-25 mpg player at most... less if you're content to give Vanderbilt 10-15 mpg as an energy player.

Given that Vanderbilt has some NBA level skills in certain matchups with his ability to rebound on both sides of the ball, run in transition, and be switchable on the perimeter and guard big wings... you really only need to add a role-player in this spot. I think the thing the Wolves are missing is truly an above average spacing player at the 4.

I think the best move for the Wolves this offseason would be to add 2 extremely solid 20 mpg role-players at the 4 and the 5 rather than giving up assets and star-hunting. If needed, at the trade deadline the Wolves can take stock of their assets and team (after hopefully being healthy) and package assets into a Turner level player or better.

Theis, IMO, is the key to our off-season. Forget trying to make big moves, just get Theis. Overpay if you have to, he's that important to what we need. If we unloaded salary somehow (Rubio, Juancho, Okogie, Culver, etc.) to allow us to offer the full MLE, the problem is, he'll get that offer from mulitiple teams I would think. We'd have to out-bid them somewhat.



From this article (https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/06/11/daniel-theis-will-have-plenty-of-interest-on-the-market-this-season-what-about-the-bulls/), this statement is put out there:

On the latest episode of the HoopsHype Podcast, Scotto told Yossi Gozlan that he’s heard Theis is a starting-caliber player who will command above the mid-level exception this season.

From what I’m told, Theis is looking for the right balance of an opportunity to play, be on a winning team, and obviously have some respect shown through money. The value I’ve heard for him, expected value from talking about him with people around the league, he can command interest from teams above the mid-level in free agency thus far. Time will tell, ultimately, but this guy is a a starter and has got playoff experience, he can shoot the three if he has to, a leader in the locker room guy. He does all the intangibles for a team to win, we saw it in Boston when they were doing well, and it will be interesting to see his market, as well.

So, in other words, people around the league expect Theis to make over $9.5 million annually on his next contract. In fact, considering this weak free agency class and the amount of cap space that will be out there, I could envision Theis getting to $12 million a year somewhat easily. Again, he not only has some encouraging previous experience, but he possesses the positional versatility to play both frontcourt spots. Teams will pay for that, especially those teams looking to contend in 2021-22.


So there's your dilemma on Theis. If we could magically use Rubio's money we'd be good to go to offer him 12 mil.

I wouldn't mind Theis. He does some of the things I would be looking for and at his best even most of them. However, I think it's important that we add a big in our rotation that can be a vertical threat on both sides of the ball. I think having a lob threat in the paint will really help open things up for guys like D Lo and help them get to the rim or give them options when they can't. I think pairing Towns with a big who can be the primary rim defender and spell him in that area is an interesting idea.

[wolfen]

The biggest way to fix the 4 position for the Wolves is to add a 15-20 mpg rim-rolling, screen-setting, and rim protecting backup 5. In addition to this, this means that KAT is playing the 4 for ~15-18 mpg. Between Naz, the additional role-player above, and KAT you have your 5 minutes locked down and players with different skillsets who you can tailor towards different matchups towards.

With Beasley, Edwards, Russell, Rubio, Nowell, Bolmaro, Okogie and Culver on the roster... Beasley/Edwards/Bolmaro/Okogie/Culver... if they are to get minutes... are going to have to get minutes at the 3. McDaniels will also get minutes at the 3, but there won't be enough for him to get a full 30-35 mpg there. This means that McDaniels, even if his primary position is the 3, will play some minutes at the 4 especially in certain matchups.

If KAT plays 15 mpg at the 4 and McDaniels plays 10-15 mpg at the 4, you're really only looking for a 20-25 mpg player at most... less if you're content to give Vanderbilt 10-15 mpg as an energy player.

Given that Vanderbilt has some NBA level skills in certain matchups with his ability to rebound on both sides of the ball, run in transition, and be switchable on the perimeter and guard big wings... you really only need to add a role-player in this spot. I think the thing the Wolves are missing is truly an above average spacing player at the 4.

I think the best move for the Wolves this offseason would be to add 2 extremely solid 20 mpg role-players at the 4 and the 5 rather than giving up assets and star-hunting. If needed, at the trade deadline the Wolves can take stock of their assets and team (after hopefully being healthy) and package assets into a Turner level player or better.

Theis, IMO, is the key to our off-season. Forget trying to make big moves, just get Theis. Overpay if you have to, he's that important to what we need. If we unloaded salary somehow (Rubio, Juancho, Okogie, Culver, etc.) to allow us to offer the full MLE, the problem is, he'll get that offer from mulitiple teams I would think. We'd have to out-bid them somewhat.



From this article (https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/06/11/daniel-theis-will-have-plenty-of-interest-on-the-market-this-season-what-about-the-bulls/), this statement is put out there:

On the latest episode of the HoopsHype Podcast, Scotto told Yossi Gozlan that he’s heard Theis is a starting-caliber player who will command above the mid-level exception this season.

From what I’m told, Theis is looking for the right balance of an opportunity to play, be on a winning team, and obviously have some respect shown through money. The value I’ve heard for him, expected value from talking about him with people around the league, he can command interest from teams above the mid-level in free agency thus far. Time will tell, ultimately, but this guy is a a starter and has got playoff experience, he can shoot the three if he has to, a leader in the locker room guy. He does all the intangibles for a team to win, we saw it in Boston when they were doing well, and it will be interesting to see his market, as well.

So, in other words, people around the league expect Theis to make over $9.5 million annually on his next contract. In fact, considering this weak free agency class and the amount of cap space that will be out there, I could envision Theis getting to $12 million a year somewhat easily. Again, he not only has some encouraging previous experience, but he possesses the positional versatility to play both frontcourt spots. Teams will pay for that, especially those teams looking to contend in 2021-22.


So there's your dilemma on Theis. If we could magically use Rubio's money we'd be good to go to offer him 12 mil.

I wouldn't mind Theis. He does some of the things I would be looking for and at his best even most of them. However, I think it's important that we add a big in our rotation that can be a vertical threat on both sides of the ball. I think having a lob threat in the paint will really help open things up for guys like D Lo and help them get to the rim or give them options when they can't. I think pairing Towns with a big who can be the primary rim defender and spell him in that area is an interesting idea.

Theis is more than a defender / rebounder / screen setter. He's definitely also a lob threat, which I agree is really needed...

Watch on YouTube

[shrink]

Deleted

[shrink]

Russell was probably destined for a contract in the $18 mil range, but timing DID bail him out. When he got dumped to BRK, they tried to run their offense through Caris LeVert. When he got hurt, they tried to feature Spencer Dinwiddie, but he got hurt too. With no one left, they built their offense around Russell, and it boosted his stats. Then when the East All Stars were announced, they had an injured player, and Russell got that spot. Nate Duncan calls Russell the “worst all star in nba history,” which is saying something, since I watched Jamaal Magliore. His inclusion, even as a replacement, showed how bad the talent was in the East.

Russell STILL probably wouldn’t have gotten a max deal except for yet another beneficial coincidence - Kevin Durant wanted to join the Nets. The Nets had cap space to just sign him, but the Warriors didn’t want to lose him for nothing, and they wanted to maintain their payroll for salary matching above the cap. The only way to get to a salary that could match Kevin Durant was for them to agree to pay DLo a max deal.

Russell has been the recipient of tremendous luck to get to the contract he is on today. He is not worth a max deal in any shape or form, as we would see if we ever wanted to trade him. He came in 6th in the “Worst Contracts in the NBA” poll on the Trade Board last year.

First 14 games, 6-8 record (all healthy): DLo 17/4/5, LeVert 18/4/4, Dinwiddie 14/2/4
Next 35 games, 20-15 record (no LeVert): DLo 20/4/7, Dinwiddie 18/3/5
Averages, 26-23 record: DLo 19/4/6, Dinwiddie 17/3/5 (this is roughly when all-stars were announced)

Next 7 games, 3-4 record (only DLo): DLo 24/3/7
Next 7 games, 3-4 record (DLo and LeVert): 27/4/8, LeVert 9/3/4
Last 19 games, 10-9 record: DLo 23/4/8, Dinwiddie 16/2/3, LeVert 12/4/4

They may have chosen to run things through LeVert early on, but why was the team's best stretch with him out if he was truly their best player? This is like some LaMelo logic going on here.....Dinwiddie never really usurped Russell in role or production.

Good info. I thought Dinwiddie was out earlier and longer, so this info helped clarify things for me. I will say two things.

First, DLo’s game is always going to have a higher usage, just by the way he plays. Usage doesn’t mention defensive presence, and if you put Russell on the court, you want him to be doing something on the offensive end. And I don’t think we’ll disagree that DLo will try to take a lot of shots. I also don’t think we disagree that the Nets initially tried to feature LeVert. I have always seen Dinwiddie as the superior overall player, but even if you do not, we can agree he certainly helps the team’s passing and offense. When the Nets lost LeVert, the narrative I have heard was that they turned their offense into everyone setting picks for DLo. In fairness to the Nets, they didn’t have a lot of good choices left. I do not want to see the Wolves make that their main offense, to boost DLo’s numbers.

Secondly, when you see a breakdown on the record like this, does anyone still want to use the phrase, “he led his team to the playoffs?” It’s not untrue, but it, like being called an All Star (never “injury replacement), doesn’t really tell the story, right? He “led” the team to be average - that year, “average” happened to be enough to make the playoffs and be an injury replacement in the East.

[SO_MONEY]

The biggest way to fix the 4 position for the Wolves is to add a 15-20 mpg rim-rolling, screen-setting, and rim protecting backup 5. In addition to this, this means that KAT is playing the 4 for ~15-18 mpg. Between Naz, the additional role-player above, and KAT you have your 5 minutes locked down and players with different skillsets who you can tailor towards different matchups towards.

With Beasley, Edwards, Russell, Rubio, Nowell, Bolmaro, Okogie and Culver on the roster... Beasley/Edwards/Bolmaro/Okogie/Culver... if they are to get minutes... are going to have to get minutes at the 3. McDaniels will also get minutes at the 3, but there won't be enough for him to get a full 30-35 mpg there. This means that McDaniels, even if his primary position is the 3, will play some minutes at the 4 especially in certain matchups.

If KAT plays 15 mpg at the 4 and McDaniels plays 10-15 mpg at the 4, you're really only looking for a 20-25 mpg player at most... less if you're content to give Vanderbilt 10-15 mpg as an energy player.

Given that Vanderbilt has some NBA level skills in certain matchups with his ability to rebound on both sides of the ball, run in transition, and be switchable on the perimeter and guard big wings... you really only need to add a role-player in this spot. I think the thing the Wolves are missing is truly an above average spacing player at the 4.

I think the best move for the Wolves this offseason would be to add 2 extremely solid 20 mpg role-players at the 4 and the 5 rather than giving up assets and star-hunting. If needed, at the trade deadline the Wolves can take stock of their assets and team (after hopefully being healthy) and package assets into a Turner level player or better.

If you are giving KAT 15 minutes a PF you have failed.

Convincing argument, care to expand? I'm not by any means a trailblazer musing over the idea of giving KAT minutes at the 4. Do the Lakers fail because Davis gets 20 mpg at the 4?

Davis can play the 4.

[shangrila]

Last point. If you don’t want to put credence in the Trade Board, how about the actual NBA?

How many young players that are truly deserving of a max deal get it after being traded to their third team (now on team four)? I can’t think of another off the top of my head.

Don’t teams usually want to hang on to these “stars,” so they don’t get traded, even once?

The utter hypocrisy for you to whine about others misrepresenting things and then pull this out of your ass is staggering.

Yes, he was traded from the Lakers. He disappointed as a player, had a serious issue off the court that poisoned his standing in the locker room and the franchise wanted to move Mozgov to get capspace to sign bigger fish. Nobody disputes this, but it's not like he was dumped for a protected 2nd, was he?

Then he was traded for Kevin Durant. I think even Russell himself makes that trade.

And then he was traded here. The Warriors already had an overlap of better players at his position and wanted the Wolves pick to flip for someone better to fit their core so, again, there was a clear reason why he would be traded.

I mean, I don't think anyone is trying to argue he's a superstar. What I'm trying to push back against is this idea that he's a scrub and/or a fraud. That and you throwing out whatever you think will support your agenda.

Just point out he doesn't play defence and move on with your life. You keep trying to build this jenga tower of an argument to justify your distaste for the guy and it does not work.

Russell is a very polarizing figure. When it became a possibility to add Dlo AND dump Wiggins in the same deal, I was ecstatic. Even when it was announced that the deal would include a protected 2021 FRP, I still thought Rosas did a great job of taking advantage of the situation. If anyone says they would rather have Wiggins and Bouknight/Kispert (#7) over Dlo, they're just letting personal dislike for Russell cloud their judgement.

Honestly, I can't blame anyone for disliking the deal and/or Russell. The lack of defence is frustrating and obviously giving up the 7th pick is a tough pill to swallow for any player that isn't a bonafide star.

The annoying part is that the trade's value is still up in the air. Russell and KAT haven't played enough together to be able to accurately state whether they're a winning combination, which is likely what also lead to us giving up the 7th pick instead of the 11th or 12th.

Russell was in the right place at the right time to get his contract as shrink accurately pointed out and his friendship with KAT sealed the deal for Gerson. A LOT Of things had to fall in place for Russell to get that Max deal from MIN and getting rid of Wiggins was all I personally needed to accept the consequences of that deal.

I disagree.

As I've stated, he was 22/23, coming off a year where he made the All Star team and where he helped the Nets, who'd been a laughing stock for a while to that point, make the playoffs. Whether people want to debate about his All Star selection being legitimate or if making the playoffs in the East is worthy of praise is irrelevant. Because my first sentence of this paragraph paints the picture of a player that, historically, is going to get maxed.

The idea that, like shrink presents it, it took some sort of cosmic alignment for Russell to get his deal is laughable.

Russell is a good NBA player, not great, and not worthy of a Max deal. There are plenty of players in the league on Max deals that don't deserve them. For example, does anyone even remotely believe that Tobias Harris is worth his Max contract? We're seeing firsthand in PHI what happens to a team that has 2 of their 3 Max slots taken by players that don't come close to living up to those deals. That team is dead in the water and with Embiid's significant health concerns, they're closer to a full rebuild than they are winning a Title.

This is a point I've brought up, so I definitely agree.

The thing I've pushed back on is the narrative shrink's tried to spin, not whether Russell is worth his deal. And yet the goalposts have moved so often that now this has somehow become a point of the discussion.

If Russell was on a 4/$80M deal and could stay healthy, he'd easily be considered a "value" player across the NBA. I've been hard on Russell myself but what I saw from him the last 20 games of the season really has me encouraged. If Philly offered Simmons for Russell straight up (never would happen), I'd actually have to think about that for a second because shooting is so highly valued in the league right now. With that said, I have no issues with fans being critical of Russell's play/value because that comes with being a Max player. However, would I renew Russell's contract with another Max deal? Hell no.

Agreed.

I think people underestimate just how bad Saunders was as a coach. I don't have any faith in his Xs and Os ability and while I'm sure he's a nice guy, he honestly seems like kind of a doormat. That's not what players like Russell or Edwards need. Finch, on the other hand, seems to strike the perfect balance between respect and discipline. Sort of the midway point between Thibs and Saunders. We should do well with him.

[Nick K]

The utter hypocrisy for you to whine about others misrepresenting things and then pull this out of your ass is staggering.

Yes, he was traded from the Lakers. He disappointed as a player, had a serious issue off the court that poisoned his standing in the locker room and the franchise wanted to move Mozgov to get capspace to sign bigger fish. Nobody disputes this, but it's not like he was dumped for a protected 2nd, was he?

Then he was traded for Kevin Durant. I think even Russell himself makes that trade.

And then he was traded here. The Warriors already had an overlap of better players at his position and wanted the Wolves pick to flip for someone better to fit their core so, again, there was a clear reason why he would be traded.

I mean, I don't think anyone is trying to argue he's a superstar. What I'm trying to push back against is this idea that he's a scrub and/or a fraud. That and you throwing out whatever you think will support your agenda.

Just point out he doesn't play defence and move on with your life. You keep trying to build this jenga tower of an argument to justify your distaste for the guy and it does not work.

Russell is a very polarizing figure. When it became a possibility to add Dlo AND dump Wiggins in the same deal, I was ecstatic. Even when it was announced that the deal would include a protected 2021 FRP, I still thought Rosas did a great job of taking advantage of the situation. If anyone says they would rather have Wiggins and Bouknight/Kispert (#7) over Dlo, they're just letting personal dislike for Russell cloud their judgement.

Honestly, I can't blame anyone for disliking the deal and/or Russell. The lack of defence is frustrating and obviously giving up the 7th pick is a tough pill to swallow for any player that isn't a bonafide star.

The annoying part is that the trade's value is still up in the air. Russell and KAT haven't played enough together to be able to accurately state whether they're a winning combination, which is likely what also lead to us giving up the 7th pick instead of the 11th or 12th.

Russell was in the right place at the right time to get his contract as shrink accurately pointed out and his friendship with KAT sealed the deal for Gerson. A LOT Of things had to fall in place for Russell to get that Max deal from MIN and getting rid of Wiggins was all I personally needed to accept the consequences of that deal.

I disagree.

As I've stated, he was 22/23, coming off a year where he made the All Star team and where he helped the Nets, who'd been a laughing stock for a while to that point, make the playoffs. Whether people want to debate about his All Star selection being legitimate or if making the playoffs in the East is worthy of praise is irrelevant. Because my first sentence of this paragraph paints the picture of a player that, historically, is going to get maxed.

The idea that, like shrink presents it, it took some sort of cosmic alignment for Russell to get his deal is laughable.

Russell is a good NBA player, not great, and not worthy of a Max deal. There are plenty of players in the league on Max deals that don't deserve them. For example, does anyone even remotely believe that Tobias Harris is worth his Max contract? We're seeing firsthand in PHI what happens to a team that has 2 of their 3 Max slots taken by players that don't come close to living up to those deals. That team is dead in the water and with Embiid's significant health concerns, they're closer to a full rebuild than they are winning a Title.

This is a point I've brought up, so I definitely agree.

The thing I've pushed back on is the narrative shrink's tried to spin, not whether Russell is worth his deal. And yet the goalposts have moved so often that now this has somehow become a point of the discussion.

If Russell was on a 4/$80M deal and could stay healthy, he'd easily be considered a "value" player across the NBA. I've been hard on Russell myself but what I saw from him the last 20 games of the season really has me encouraged. If Philly offered Simmons for Russell straight up (never would happen), I'd actually have to think about that for a second because shooting is so highly valued in the league right now. With that said, I have no issues with fans being critical of Russell's play/value because that comes with being a Max player. However, would I renew Russell's contract with another Max deal? Hell no.

Agreed.

I think people underestimate just how bad Saunders was as a coach. I don't have any faith in his Xs and Os ability and while I'm sure he's a nice guy, he honestly seems like kind of a doormat. That's not what players like Russell or Edwards need. Finch, on the other hand, seems to strike the perfect balance between respect and discipline. Sort of the midway point between Thibs and Saunders. We should do well with him.

Do you mean "Lil Flipper"?

[Baseline81]

Dane is spot on in this tweet:

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