Hal’s Draft Thread

[winsomme2]

I guess I will concede that if the player they have rated at or near the top of their list when they pick at 45 is an international player, I don't have an issue with them drafting and stashing.

I just don't want them to pass on someone they really like because they don't have a roster spot because that is kinda absurd given our complete lack of depth at just about every position.

I mean, they don’t really lack depth at any position aside from PF and Tatum has been pretty much a full time PF for a couple seasons.

What the team lacks is proven, playoff caliber depth, which, as I’ve pointed out numerous times, is really really hard to find that deep into the second round.

At PG they have Smart-Pritchard-Edwards-Yam
At SG-SF they have Brown-Nesmith-Romeo-Fournier (if they decide to pay him)
At SF-PF they have Tatum-Grant-Parker
At C they have Rob-Horford-Thompson-Brown

So they could use someone in that 2-4 mold and there are guys in that mold in this draft. With Champagnie and Juzang dropping out there’s a little less depth there.

Will be interesting to see where Todd, Trey Murphy, and Wieskamp go. Not that high on Herb Jones and haven’t really given much of a look to Gray or Livers.

But yeah, draft and stash will be a strong possibility if we see the stock of Murphy, Wieskamp and Todd rise.

The problem is they have bodies but not actual depth.

Take Brown, Grant, and Edwards off that list for me because that is a shadow game as far as I'm concerned. I cringe every time Grant comes in the game. he commits the worst fouls and has terrible hands. He's a hard worker so I'm not interested in bashing him but he is not a player I want to be in our plans.

If we re-sign Fournier I guess we have decent depth at SG/SF but we don't anywhere else.

I'm expecting some pretty major moves related to TT and Marcus, so I think anything we talk about at this point could have a major shift.

[ICeeYou]

I guess I will concede that if the player they have rated at or near the top of their list when they pick at 45 is an international player, I don't have an issue with them drafting and stashing.

I just don't want them to pass on someone they really like because they don't have a roster spot because that is kinda absurd given our complete lack of depth at just about every position.

I mean, they don’t really lack depth at any position aside from PF and Tatum has been pretty much a full time PF for a couple seasons.

What the team lacks is proven, playoff caliber depth, which, as I’ve pointed out numerous times, is really really hard to find that deep into the second round.

At PG they have Smart-Pritchard-Edwards-Yam
At SG-SF they have Brown-Nesmith-Romeo-Fournier (if they decide to pay him)
At SF-PF they have Tatum-Grant-Parker
At C they have Rob-Horford-Thompson-Brown

So they could use someone in that 2-4 mold and there are guys in that mold in this draft. With Champagnie and Juzang dropping out there’s a little less depth there.

Will be interesting to see where Todd, Trey Murphy, and Wieskamp go. Not that high on Herb Jones and haven’t really given much of a look to Gray or Livers.

But yeah, draft and stash will be a strong possibility if we see the stock of Murphy, Wieskamp and Todd rise.

The problem is they have bodies but not actual depth.

Take Brown, Grant, and Edwards off that list for me because that is a shadow game as far as I'm concerned. I cringe every time Grant comes in the game. he commits the worst fouls and has terrible hands. He's a hard worker so I'm not interested in bashing him but he is not a player I want to be in our plans.

If we re-sign Fournier I guess we have decent depth at SG/SF but we don't anywhere else.

I'm expecting some pretty major moves related to TT and Marcus, so I think anything we talk about at this point could have a major shift.

Chatter on Marcus seems to align more so with him being a piece that makes Tatum and Brown better. You have Pritchard backing up Smart and Romeo/Yam as intriguing ball handlers behind them. If you move Smart at this point, you’re probably only doing so if Beal or someone like that is coming back.

Without Edwards, it still looks like you’re pretty solid there.

If you don’t re-sign Fournier, you are going to be short on wing-depth but #45 isn’t going to come in and solidify you there in year 1 so you’d have to hope there is a plan if Fournier is gone. Best case is you flip him in an S&T for a wing/swing. There are lots of vet FA’s who can fill in there if need be.

Of course, you could also flip Thompson for depth there.

I would say short of you subtracting guys off the roster without replacing them, they have pretty solid depth around the roster. But, you said it, they are bodies because they are young and unproven. Adding more Young unproven guys doesn’t solve the problem for Boston.

They need proven veteran players on the wings and at the forward/big spots (if they move Thompson).

That’s why I tend to think they’ll likely focus their efforts into turning Fournier/Thompson into those types (or keeping them) while bringing in guys with relationships with Udoka to fill out the bench.

Depending on how much they consolidate talent in those moves will determine if they draft to roster a player or stash someone overseas.

So basically, whether we like it or not, the talent on the board will probably be a secondary consideration to what they end up doing with the pick.

[winsomme2]

I mean, they don’t really lack depth at any position aside from PF and Tatum has been pretty much a full time PF for a couple seasons.

What the team lacks is proven, playoff caliber depth, which, as I’ve pointed out numerous times, is really really hard to find that deep into the second round.

At PG they have Smart-Pritchard-Edwards-Yam
At SG-SF they have Brown-Nesmith-Romeo-Fournier (if they decide to pay him)
At SF-PF they have Tatum-Grant-Parker
At C they have Rob-Horford-Thompson-Brown

So they could use someone in that 2-4 mold and there are guys in that mold in this draft. With Champagnie and Juzang dropping out there’s a little less depth there.

Will be interesting to see where Todd, Trey Murphy, and Wieskamp go. Not that high on Herb Jones and haven’t really given much of a look to Gray or Livers.

But yeah, draft and stash will be a strong possibility if we see the stock of Murphy, Wieskamp and Todd rise.

The problem is they have bodies but not actual depth.

Take Brown, Grant, and Edwards off that list for me because that is a shadow game as far as I'm concerned. I cringe every time Grant comes in the game. he commits the worst fouls and has terrible hands. He's a hard worker so I'm not interested in bashing him but he is not a player I want to be in our plans.

If we re-sign Fournier I guess we have decent depth at SG/SF but we don't anywhere else.

I'm expecting some pretty major moves related to TT and Marcus, so I think anything we talk about at this point could have a major shift.

Chatter on Marcus seems to align more so with him being a piece that makes Tatum and Brown better. You have Pritchard backing up Smart and Romeo/Yam as intriguing ball handlers behind them. If you move Smart at this point, you’re probably only doing so if Beal or someone like that is coming back.

Without Edwards, it still looks like you’re pretty solid there.

If you don’t re-sign Fournier, you are going to be short on wing-depth but #45 isn’t going to come in and solidify you there in year 1 so you’d have to hope there is a plan if Fournier is gone. Best case is you flip him in an S&T for a wing/swing. There are lots of vet FA’s who can fill in there if need be.

Of course, you could also flip Thompson for depth there.

I would say short of you subtracting guys off the roster without replacing them, they have pretty solid depth around the roster. But, you said it, they are bodies because they are young and unproven. Adding more Young unproven guys doesn’t solve the problem for Boston.

They need proven veteran players on the wings and at the forward/big spots (if they move Thompson).

That’s why I tend to think they’ll likely focus their efforts into turning Fournier/Thompson into those types (or keeping them) while bringing in guys with relationships with Udoka to fill out the bench.

Depending on how much they consolidate talent in those moves will determine if they draft to roster a player or stash someone overseas.

So basically, whether we like it or not, the talent on the board will probably be a secondary consideration to what they end up doing with the pick.

You are getting lost in the shell game IMO.

You can switch these guys around however you like they're still who they are.

Romeo is not a primary ball handler IMO and I really don't want him running the offense. He's good at attacking the basket to get his own shots but I wouldn't want him getting any significant minutes at PG.

There are bodies and there have been for the past two seasons but they are not bodies you can rely on. We still need some major shake ups IMO.

[winsomme2]

SF/PF is definitely our weakest position.

Isaiah Livers and Jeremiah Robinson Earl are starting to interest me more. They are underrated at this point and could IMO come in and almost immediately jump Grant on the depth chart.

[ICeeYou]

The problem is they have bodies but not actual depth.

Take Brown, Grant, and Edwards off that list for me because that is a shadow game as far as I'm concerned. I cringe every time Grant comes in the game. he commits the worst fouls and has terrible hands. He's a hard worker so I'm not interested in bashing him but he is not a player I want to be in our plans.

If we re-sign Fournier I guess we have decent depth at SG/SF but we don't anywhere else.

I'm expecting some pretty major moves related to TT and Marcus, so I think anything we talk about at this point could have a major shift.

Chatter on Marcus seems to align more so with him being a piece that makes Tatum and Brown better. You have Pritchard backing up Smart and Romeo/Yam as intriguing ball handlers behind them. If you move Smart at this point, you’re probably only doing so if Beal or someone like that is coming back.

Without Edwards, it still looks like you’re pretty solid there.

If you don’t re-sign Fournier, you are going to be short on wing-depth but #45 isn’t going to come in and solidify you there in year 1 so you’d have to hope there is a plan if Fournier is gone. Best case is you flip him in an S&T for a wing/swing. There are lots of vet FA’s who can fill in there if need be.

Of course, you could also flip Thompson for depth there.

I would say short of you subtracting guys off the roster without replacing them, they have pretty solid depth around the roster. But, you said it, they are bodies because they are young and unproven. Adding more Young unproven guys doesn’t solve the problem for Boston.

They need proven veteran players on the wings and at the forward/big spots (if they move Thompson).

That’s why I tend to think they’ll likely focus their efforts into turning Fournier/Thompson into those types (or keeping them) while bringing in guys with relationships with Udoka to fill out the bench.

Depending on how much they consolidate talent in those moves will determine if they draft to roster a player or stash someone overseas.

So basically, whether we like it or not, the talent on the board will probably be a secondary consideration to what they end up doing with the pick.

You are getting lost in the shell game IMO.

You can switch these guys around however you like they're still who they are.

Romeo is not a primary ball handler IMO and I really don't want him running the offense. He's good at attacking the basket to get his own shots but I wouldn't want him getting any significant minutes at PG.

There are bodies and there have been for the past two seasons but they are not bodies you can rely on. We still need some major shake ups IMO.

The Celtics don't really have the pieces for major shake ups.

Tatum, Brown and Smart are your primary ball handlers. What you're looking for beyond them is complementary ball handling like you could get from Pritchard, Romeo, Madar or a veteran guy for cheap. And of course, you're likely going to see a bunch of offense being run through Horford and Rob with dribble handoffs and the like.

I'm not sure how you can make the case that the Celtics need a second rounder to step in and contribute but don't think Romeo has potential to be a ball handler. I mean, he was a top 5-10 recruit coming out of high school and when healthy, (which has been rare) has been one of the guys Brad trusts the most out of the young crop (even moreso than Pritchard this past year).

The team will likely explore the few moves I've detailed:

1. Resigning Fournier
2. Sign and trading Fournier
3. Consolidating talent using Thompson as a salary match (not likely to yield a big name), depending on who is the sweetener (likely Grant/Edwards).
4. Using the Tax Payer MLE
5. Using Veterans Minimum contacts to grab some NBA guys
6. Trading future picks with a trade exception(s) for guys making under 11 million

Without knowing what they will do there, the conversation will be around what they do with the guys they have on the roster based on our best guess as to how Brad views them and how Ime will deploy them. We haven't heard a ton about Romeo or Nesmith but Ime has talked about "working with first round picks" and "bringing the dog out of guys." I think those comments are probably in reference to Romeo and Nesmith who are better prospects than anyone likely to fall to #45 in this draft.

[RickyDizzle]

SF/PF is definitely our weakest position.

Isaiah Livers and Jeremiah Robinson Earl are starting to interest me more. They are underrated at this point and could IMO come in and almost immediately jump Grant on the depth chart.

I like Livers, just less so then Kessler Edwards, Moses Wright, and Weiskamp... Earl is an interesting guy I can't figure out. Offensive feel is great, size is great, D and athleticism are both lacking which is important for a bulky 6'9" guy when we need a 4 and not a center. Also his 3 point stroke looks super smooth and confident but he made 28%... so there's that. Love his touch and Interior passing though. He's sort of the opposite of Grant, good size and offensive feel, lacking D though.

[winsomme2]

Oh I like the potential of Romeo as a defensive specialist and bench scoring. I just don't want him as a primary ball handler.

And there are definitely guys that will be available at 45 who are an almost immediate upgrade over Grant. And he got almost 20 mpg.

I would also add moving Smart to your list of potential moves.

[Hal14]

Potential sleeper pick, Makur Maker.

Only 20 yrs old..plays for a smaller D-I college who had all but 5 of their games cancelled last year (Maker only played in 2 of them) so he's the type of guy you could stash on the Main Red Claws for a year which opens up a roster spot to sign a veteran - then you bring Maker up when he's ready. Very quick, athletic, agile and skilled for a guy his size and for being so young. Plays hard and not afraid to look for his shot and make sh*t happen out there.

This dude could be Durant-lite.

[Hal14]

Interesting mock here:
http://mavsdraft.com/4th-community-mock-draft/

They have us picking Jason Preston. I like his game but we only have 1 pick in this draft, I really don't think we should take a PG considering we drafted a PG in the 1st round (Pritchard) and in the 2nd round (Madar) last year, and the year before that we drafted 2 PGs in the 2nd round (Edwards, Waters).

If those are the first 44 picks, I'd want us taking either Moses Wright, Greg Brown, Santi Aldama or Makur Maker at 45. All 4 of these guys have a nice combination of size, skill and upside.

[ICeeYou]

Oh I like the potential of Romeo as a defensive specialist and bench scoring. I just don't want him as a primary ball handler.

And there are definitely guys that will be available at 45 who are an almost immediate upgrade over Grant. And he got almost 20 mpg.

I would also add moving Smart to your list of potential moves.

If we look at the mock below which Hal has just shared, almost every guy who looks like he might be an upgrade over Grant is gone before the Celtics pick at 45.

Moses Wright, as I've seen in numerous mocks is going undrafted. Seniors bigs who still can't defend college level guards in pick and roll don't stand much of a chance in the NBA.

What do you consider "primary ball handling?" I'm talking about running pick and rolls or dribble hand offs to create offensive for himself or teammates. That's basically his "upside" skill set. I guess he could just end up being a spot up shooter but that's not really his game.

[ICeeYou]

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/potential_2021_nba_draft_and_stash_options/s1_16793_35268728

Hukporti
Begarin

Look good and should be available as stash candidates.

[Curmudgeon]

I have been watching film, not enough but some. Looking at players who might be available at #45, the American players I like are Kessler Edwards, Jericho Simms and RaiQuan Gray.

On the international side I would be happy with Bleijenbergh, Badji or Sylla.

I see Roko sliding down some nock boards but getting him at 45 is a pipe dream. However, trading up to get him in the early or mid 30's is not.

[winsomme2]

Oh I like the potential of Romeo as a defensive specialist and bench scoring. I just don't want him as a primary ball handler.

And there are definitely guys that will be available at 45 who are an almost immediate upgrade over Grant. And he got almost 20 mpg.

I would also add moving Smart to your list of potential moves.

If we look at the mock below which Hal has just shared, almost every guy who looks like he might be an upgrade over Grant is gone before the Celtics pick at 45.

Moses Wright, as I've seen in numerous mocks is going undrafted. Seniors bigs who still can't defend college level guards in pick and roll don't stand much of a chance in the NBA.

What do you consider "primary ball handling?" I'm talking about running pick and rolls or dribble hand offs to create offensive for himself or teammates. That's basically his "upside" skill set. I guess he could just end up being a spot up shooter but that's not really his game.

If the draft went that way, I would definitely take Jason Preston. I fully expect him to be off the board tho. I also would take Greg Brown. Huge upside pick. Sure he probably won't make much impact this year but we would love that pick in a year.

Also Joel Ayayi. He is a for sure first round talent IMO. Kinda makes my point. This draft is still loaded even with a solid 4 guys going back to school at the deadline...

I'm a big Matthew Hurt guy. I know many are down on him but I think he will be an immediate knock down shooter.

[winsomme2]

Anybody taking a look at Sam Hauser?

He kinda disappeared after his transfer from Marquette.

[playa-hater]

Interesting mock here:
http://mavsdraft.com/4th-community-mock-draft/

They have us picking Jason Preston. I like his game but we only have 1 pick in this draft, I really don't think we should take a PG considering we drafted a PG in the 1st round (Pritchard) and in the 2nd round (Madar) last year, and the year before that we drafted 2 PGs in the 2nd round (Edwards, Waters).

If those are the first 44 picks, I'd want us taking either Moses Wright, Greg Brown, Santi Aldama or Makur Maker at 45. All 4 of these guys have a nice combination of size, skill and upside.

Except for Gregg Brown all my favorites were picked. Seeing JT Thor in the early 2nd makes me scream for a trade up.. Be aggressive if there is someone you really like comes within striking distance..

[Hal14]

And is there any love for Raquan Gray as a very poor man's Zion Williamson?

I was pretty high on Gray before, but at the combine he measured with 17.3% body fat which was by far the highest at the combine, plus he was listed during the college season at 260 lbs but at the combined weighed in at 268 so seems like he packed on a few pounds since the college season which is the opposite of what he should have been doing - he should have dropped a few pounds.

So it seems like he's not in great shape and during the combine scrimmages I watched he got blocked a bunch of times when driving to the hole. He had one nice drive and dunk but literally no one was guarding him on that play due to the defense being caught out of position.

Gray is a good rebounder, he hustles, he plays hard, good passer for a big. IDK, maybe you give him a shot by signing him as undrafted free agent but I think we can do better with the 45th pick.

[Curmudgeon]

I like Gray's handles for a widebody. He need to improve his outside shooting, and showing up out of shape is what Naz Reid did, and it cost Reid alot of money. The upside is there, however.

[winsomme2]

Anybody taking a look at Sam Hauser?

He kinda disappeared after his transfer from Marquette.

I actually think I like Hauser's shot better than Wieskamp.

I'm thinking we might start hearing his name some now that the field is set.

[Hal14]

Anybody taking a look at Sam Hauser?

He kinda disappeared after his transfer from Marquette.

I actually think I like Hauser's shot better than Wieskamp.

I'm thinking we might start hearing his name some now that the field is set.

Haven't looked into Hauser much but from what I've seen - similar to Matthew Hurt, in that they're both stretch 4's who can shoot the ball very well from the outside but what else do they give you? Both appear to be slow, unathletic white guys who can't defend and don't appear to be great rebounders or passers, can't create off the dribble. Maybe worth giving them a shot as undrafted free agent, but I think we can do better with 45th pick..

Wieskamp shot 46.2% from 3. That's insane, especially for a non-senior playing in a major conference. Even if Hauser is as good a shooter, Wieskamp is way faster, way more athletic, longer wingspan, better defender, better rebounder and can create a little bit off the dribble, better passer too..

[winsomme2]

Anybody taking a look at Sam Hauser?

He kinda disappeared after his transfer from Marquette.

I actually think I like Hauser's shot better than Wieskamp.

I'm thinking we might start hearing his name some now that the field is set.

Haven't looked into Hauser much but from what I've seen - similar to Matthew Hurt, in that they're both stretch 4's who can shoot the ball very well from the outside but what else do they give you? Both appear to be slow, unathletic white guys who can't defend and don't appear to be great rebounders or passers, can't create off the dribble. Maybe worth giving them a shot as undrafted free agent, but I think we can do better with 45th pick..

Wieskamp shot 46.2% from 3. That's insane, especially for a non-senior playing in a major conference. Even if Hauser is as good a shooter, Wieskamp is way faster, way more athletic, longer wingspan, better defender, better rebounder and can create a little bit off the dribble, better passer too..

Agreed on Wieskamp offering more.

I just am looking at Hauser's shot and it looks fluid and has great range.

Hurt I think is going to be a great shooter right out of the gate. quick release. high release. I think he's a top notch shooter. but I think most think he won't be able to keep up on the defensive end.