Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer
NotMyKawhi wrote:One advantage Kuminga has over Suggs is he's more alpha imo More willing to shoot. That can be bad or good. You do need that tho to be a superstar.
It's a huge part of it. You don't make the shots you don't take. Kuminga plays like he's the man.
tecumseh18 wrote:
Ward had played college football for four years, plus one red shirt year, winning the Heismann in his last season. He was the first Heismann winner not to even be drafted in the NFL, let alone play. That's a lot of time that he wasn't playing basketball before he was drafted into the NBA the year he turned 24. At 6' 2", you have to be pretty skilled to play in the NBA. It's likely that he would have benefited from a great focus on basketball in his college career - the way Suggs did last season.
Not worried.
Federalies wrote:
Lol, you beat me by a couple minutes. Like those picks though!
ATLTimekeeper wrote:Why they'll bust from most likely to least likely:
1. Green - bad peripheral stats, super low FTr for a scorer is a red flag. Terrible WS/48. His team was better without him on the floor. A lot of the Kobe/MJ stuff is preposterous and meant to keep people from looking too deeply at his flaws.
2. Mobley - finesse bigs always get the soft label, and the way the league is pushing out bigs by allowing Markieff Morris-types 8 fouls before they're called for 1 puts him behind the 8 ball. Also thin frame is an injury risk. Doesn't rebound.
3. Cunningham - super high TOs is a red flag for a "big point guard." Morant and Young averaged 4 TOs but 2 to 3 times the amount of assists. Underwhelming WS/48 means he'll have an uphill battle just to make an all-NBA 3rd team.
4. Suggs - Didn't shoot well at a position that demands it. None of his stats pop. Cherry picked on a stacked team. Didn't run the point but is expected to in the NBA.
PrinceAli wrote:4. Suggs
46. Charles Bassey / Jericho Simms
47. Joe Wieskamp
UD: Onu
UD: Alvarado
deeps6x wrote:ATLTimekeeper wrote:Why they'll bust from most likely to least likely:
1. Green - bad peripheral stats, super low FTr for a scorer is a red flag. Terrible WS/48. His team was better without him on the floor. A lot of the Kobe/MJ stuff is preposterous and meant to keep people from looking too deeply at his flaws.
2. Mobley - finesse bigs always get the soft label, and the way the league is pushing out bigs by allowing Markieff Morris-types 8 fouls before they're called for 1 puts him behind the 8 ball. Also thin frame is an injury risk. Doesn't rebound.
3. Cunningham - super high TOs is a red flag for a "big point guard." Morant and Young averaged 4 TOs but 2 to 3 times the amount of assists. Underwhelming WS/48 means he'll have an uphill battle just to make an all-NBA 3rd team.
4. Suggs - Didn't shoot well at a position that demands it. None of his stats pop. Cherry picked on a stacked team. Didn't run the point but is expected to in the NBA.
There is always bust potential, but these four 'seem' to have less bust potential than the top four in most of the recent drafts. Personally while I'm happy we moved up and now have a chance to draft Suggs (or maybe even Mobley?), I think both are a half step below Cunningham and Green as potential super stars in the league.
That said, I'm now wondering how the #4 pick did in recent drafts, so ...
2020 #4 Patrick Williams
2019 #4 De'Andre Hunter
2018 #4 Jaren Jackson Jr.
2017 #4 Josh Jackson
2016 #4 Dragan Bender
2015 #4 Kristaps Porziņģis
2014 #4 Aaron Gordon
2013 #4 Cody Zeller
2012 #4 Dion Waiters
2011 #4 Tristan Thompson
Looking back at these last ten #4 picks kind of makes me sad. I sure hope our pick this year winds up being better than this batch from the past decade.
But if we think #2, #3 and #4 are all in the same tier, and assume that this is highly unusual compared to past years, then perhaps looking at the #2 and #3 picks from past seasons should give us more hope for the kind of potential player that we might draft.
2020 #2 James Wiseman
2019 #2 Ja Morant
2018 #2 Marvin Bagley III
2017 #2 Lonzo Ball
2016 #2 Brandon Ingram
2015 #2 D'Angelo Russell
2014 #2 Jabari Parker
2013 #2 Victor Oladipo
2012 #2 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
2011 #2 Derrick Williams
2020 #3 LaMelo Ball
2019 #3 RJ Barrett
2018 #3 Luka Dončić
2017 #3 Jayson Tatum
2016 #3 Jaylen Brown
2015 #3 Jahlil Okafor
2014 #3 Joel Embiid
2013 #3 Otto Porter Jr.
2012 #3 Bradley Beal
2011 #3 Enes Kanter
Is it just me, or did the #3 picks seem to do better than the #2 picks on average? Either group was clearly much better than the #4 picks on average.
RJ Barrett and Jaylen Brown both looked like hot trash their first season, but RJ started to show something this season, and after 5 seasons, Brown is looking like a borderline star. If you can't pick first, #3 looks like the next best place to be picking.
What the hell, might as well look at the #7 pick for those thinking we should trade Siakam to Golden State.
2020 #7 Killian Hayes
2019 #7 Coby White
2018 #7 Wendell Carter Jr.
2017 #7 Lauri Markkanen
2016 #7 Jamal Murray
2015 #7 Emmanuel Mudiay
2014 #7 Julius Randle
2013 #7 Ben McLemore
2012 #7 Harrison Barnes
2011 #7 Bismack Biyombo
And if we would get #14 from GS as well, only two good players were drafted there over the past decade, Porter Jr. in 2018 and Bam in 2017. So basically at either #7 or #14, you have a 20% chance of landing a potential star player. Last half of the lottery at every level is probably the same crappy odds. But hey, we've got draft god Masai, so our odds must be better right? 25%? 30%? It still looks like pretty crappy odds that you get someone back with as much potential as Siakam. On the other hand, I suppose if they get #7 and #14, you double up on the chance you are landing a star. But you are still looking at bird in the hand with Siakam, vs maybe a 50% chance you find someone as good. I suppose there is also the shedding of Siakam's last year of $38M of salary to consider as well. Whichever way we go (if GS and Toronto are even actually considering this deal), then I trust Masai/Bobby will be doing what they think is best for the team, long term, so I'll support it.
ATLTimekeeper wrote:tecumseh18 wrote:
Ward had played college football for four years, plus one red shirt year, winning the Heismann in his last season. He was the first Heismann winner not to even be drafted in the NFL, let alone play. That's a lot of time that he wasn't playing basketball before he was drafted into the NBA the year he turned 24. At 6' 2", you have to be pretty skilled to play in the NBA. It's likely that he would have benefited from a great focus on basketball in his college career - the way Suggs did last season.
Not worried.
Ward played 4 years of college basketball. That's a lot of time playing basketball (more than Suggs will have). He obviously was skilled enough to play in the NBA, but football didn't help him read plays at any level of expertise. This is a bad way to sell Suggs. Much in the same way Chase Budinger's volleyball background wasn't an advantage in the NBA. These guys are athletes, they're good at sports.
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:I'm still not wanting to teardown the roster we have for a 4th pick. The Suggs pick demands that and I'm still not sold on him being that guy.
If we had 1st or 2nd sure, that's more of a sure thing. 4th isn't a sure thing.
deeps6x wrote:Who would you take at #2?
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:I'm still not wanting to teardown the roster we have for a 4th pick. The Suggs pick demands that and I'm still not sold on him being that guy.
If we had 1st or 2nd sure, that's more of a sure thing. 4th isn't a sure thing.
